Explain this whole Wall Street protester thing!
- Thread starter mrdc
- Start date
reefraff
Active Member
You are asking for answers to questions the protestors themselves can't answer...
Most of those who know what they want are members of the world workers party or other marxist groups who want to end capitalism but for the most part I think it's a motley mix of people POed at the system for one reason or another.
Most of those who know what they want are members of the world workers party or other marxist groups who want to end capitalism but for the most part I think it's a motley mix of people POed at the system for one reason or another.
They are not terribly organized, nor do they have spokespersons, or leaders, but I believe that at the heart is that financial institutions got away with fraud and mayhem a few years ago, resulting in people loosing their retirements, people foolishly buying into scam mortgage loans, etc., and bailouts using tax-paper money for banks whose CEOs should have been prosecuted, not rewarded for scamming Americans.
Many have political motives that include a more libertarian view, where the fed. reserve, also responsible for the bailouts, is done away with, and that less rather than more government is in place in the USA.
Many have political motives that include a more libertarian view, where the fed. reserve, also responsible for the bailouts, is done away with, and that less rather than more government is in place in the USA.
mantisman51
Active Member
Well, if the signs are an indication, it appears that the banks got bailed out by the working class and are back to taking advantage of the proletariat. Even after watching a couple glowing, dare I say "rapturous", news stories from CNN and NBC, all I know is that they want "big banks and multinationals to know the American workers are sick of their greed". I agree the banks and multinationals are unfairly favored by both Dems and Reps to the hurt of the American people, but these folks are just raising a ruckus and hoping someone smarter than them will come along after to straighten it all out-I guess.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Actually this whole thing reminds me of the 1968 protests in chicago.
IMHO it is basically the liberal/dems wet dream to counteract the TEA party. People like oberman have been calling for this revolution for some time now.
Interesting FOX interview of the protestors last week.
One protester stated they wanted to do away with capitalism. When asked what would they replace it with all that occurred was a blank stare.
Another wanted to excuse all debts both private and public including all government debt.
Another thought that the rich giving them money to spend would help the economy.
another was upset they at $25,000 in college loan debt. "Can you immagine $25,000 for an education that should be free"
Another was asked if they would work if they had a job. "No way!"
Basically what I infere is this is the socialist/communistic/fascist revolution.
and IMHO the single best thing that has happened to capitalists and conservatives.
But at least the real adjenda is out there for all to see.
IMHO it is basically the liberal/dems wet dream to counteract the TEA party. People like oberman have been calling for this revolution for some time now.
Interesting FOX interview of the protestors last week.
One protester stated they wanted to do away with capitalism. When asked what would they replace it with all that occurred was a blank stare.
Another wanted to excuse all debts both private and public including all government debt.
Another thought that the rich giving them money to spend would help the economy.
another was upset they at $25,000 in college loan debt. "Can you immagine $25,000 for an education that should be free"
Another was asked if they would work if they had a job. "No way!"
Basically what I infere is this is the socialist/communistic/fascist revolution.
and IMHO the single best thing that has happened to capitalists and conservatives.
But at least the real adjenda is out there for all to see.
mantisman51
Active Member
There will always be the ultra leftists trying to use these things for their Marxist purposes. I think that in this case, though, there are a whole lot more good people who aren't stupid. Wall Street and banks are setting record profits after bringing our system to it's knees and being handed us working class folks money-hand over fist. Meanwhile, we are struggling along knowing if the economy picks up we'll be lucky to break even economically while the big banks rake in even more. This isn't about capitalism vs socialism. The deck has been rigged by politicians and their big business masters. There isn't free enterprise anymore. It is whichever big corporation gives the most money to the right politicians-both parties by the way. So it really does no one justice to label all of these people as communists and socialists.
stdreb27
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425373
So it really does no one justice to label all of these people as communists and socialists.
umm, lets see,
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/10/07/some-%e2%80%98occupy-sacramento%e2%80%99-protesters-lash-out-at-questions/
If you watch the video, they flat out say that they are marxist communists...
2. these jokers "manifesto"
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
I think it is completely fair to call these morons, marxist, communist socialists.
3. Realistically, the alternative to capitalism is socialism to one extent or another... These guy are protesting capitalism, they're socialists...
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425373
So it really does no one justice to label all of these people as communists and socialists.
umm, lets see,
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/10/07/some-%e2%80%98occupy-sacramento%e2%80%99-protesters-lash-out-at-questions/
If you watch the video, they flat out say that they are marxist communists...
2. these jokers "manifesto"
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
I think it is completely fair to call these morons, marxist, communist socialists.
3. Realistically, the alternative to capitalism is socialism to one extent or another... These guy are protesting capitalism, they're socialists...
mantisman51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425373
There will always be the ultra leftists trying to use these things for their Marxist purposes. I think that in this case, though, there are a whole lot more good people who aren't stupid. Wall Street and banks are setting record profits after bringing our system to it's knees and being handed us working class folks money-hand over fist. Meanwhile, we are struggling along knowing if the economy picks up we'll be lucky to break even economically while the big banks rake in even more. This isn't about capitalism vs socialism. The deck has been rigged by politicians and their big business masters. There isn't free enterprise anymore. It is whichever big corporation gives the most money to the right politicians-both parties by the way. So it really does no one justice to label all of these people as communists and socialists.
I am as far from a Marxist or socialist as a person can get, but I won't close my eyes to large corporations taking my tax money and skinning me alive financially either. I see the normal professional rent-a-mob and the ultra leftists as well. BUT the reason this is much larger than the normal anti free trade/anti IMF protests is because there are more than just the usual suspects showing up. Socialism is government control of the economy and business. What the big corporations have set up with their politician puppets is extreme socialism with them as the beneficiaries. And for people who are opposed to that to be labled Marxist has me perplexed. If you are for free enterprise then you would have to be against the oligarchy that these multinationals and the government have set up. THAT is Marxist.
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425373
There will always be the ultra leftists trying to use these things for their Marxist purposes. I think that in this case, though, there are a whole lot more good people who aren't stupid. Wall Street and banks are setting record profits after bringing our system to it's knees and being handed us working class folks money-hand over fist. Meanwhile, we are struggling along knowing if the economy picks up we'll be lucky to break even economically while the big banks rake in even more. This isn't about capitalism vs socialism. The deck has been rigged by politicians and their big business masters. There isn't free enterprise anymore. It is whichever big corporation gives the most money to the right politicians-both parties by the way. So it really does no one justice to label all of these people as communists and socialists.
I am as far from a Marxist or socialist as a person can get, but I won't close my eyes to large corporations taking my tax money and skinning me alive financially either. I see the normal professional rent-a-mob and the ultra leftists as well. BUT the reason this is much larger than the normal anti free trade/anti IMF protests is because there are more than just the usual suspects showing up. Socialism is government control of the economy and business. What the big corporations have set up with their politician puppets is extreme socialism with them as the beneficiaries. And for people who are opposed to that to be labled Marxist has me perplexed. If you are for free enterprise then you would have to be against the oligarchy that these multinationals and the government have set up. THAT is Marxist.
reefraff
Active Member
Many of those E-vile banks were forced to take money, FORCED to. While DICK Durbin is calling for people to leave Bank of America over the 5.00 Debit card fee he fails to mention it was a bill HE sponsored that ended the bank's ability to charge the fees to the retailers who accept the cards.
Also the government FORCED lenders to make a lot of the sub prime loans that led to this whole damn mess in the first place. The government also changed regulations that allowed bundling of financial securities that Freddie and Fanny bought allowing the banks to dump their high risk loans off on them.
Also the government FORCED lenders to make a lot of the sub prime loans that led to this whole damn mess in the first place. The government also changed regulations that allowed bundling of financial securities that Freddie and Fanny bought allowing the banks to dump their high risk loans off on them.
stdreb27
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425413
Many of those E-vile banks were forced to take money, FORCED to. While DICK Durbin is calling for people to leave Bank of America over the 5.00 Debit card fee he fails to mention it was a bill HE sponsored that ended the bank's ability to charge the fees to the retailers who accept the cards.
Also the government FORCED lenders to make a lot of the sub prime loans that led to this whole damn mess in the first place. The government also changed regulations that allowed bundling of financial securities that Freddie and Fanny bought allowing the banks to dump their high risk loans off on them.
There is nothing wrong with bunding loans, as long as you aren't passing them off as completely secure, and hiding the fact that they weren't....
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425413
Many of those E-vile banks were forced to take money, FORCED to. While DICK Durbin is calling for people to leave Bank of America over the 5.00 Debit card fee he fails to mention it was a bill HE sponsored that ended the bank's ability to charge the fees to the retailers who accept the cards.
Also the government FORCED lenders to make a lot of the sub prime loans that led to this whole damn mess in the first place. The government also changed regulations that allowed bundling of financial securities that Freddie and Fanny bought allowing the banks to dump their high risk loans off on them.
There is nothing wrong with bunding loans, as long as you aren't passing them off as completely secure, and hiding the fact that they weren't....
mantisman51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425413
Many of those E-vile banks were forced to take money, FORCED to. While DICK Durbin is calling for people to leave Bank of America over the 5.00 Debit card fee he fails to mention it was a bill HE sponsored that ended the bank's ability to charge the fees to the retailers who accept the cards.
Also the government FORCED lenders to make a lot of the sub prime loans that led to this whole damn mess in the first place. The government also changed regulations that allowed bundling of financial securities that Freddie and Fanny bought allowing the banks to dump their high risk loans off on them.
American Express, Goldman Sachs and over 300 finance related companies changed to "banking entities" to qualify for bailouts. Dodd-Frank is a disaster, but if the banks are going to sleep with the dogs, they are going to get fleas. Last year banks recorded the biggest profits in their history. So why are they raising fees now? Oh yeah, they have to give the option of checking out of bouncing checks. There is no more free market in the financial sector; that is very much as the banks want it. I will not cry over a little bit of regulation when they all lined up with their hands out for my taxes so they could keep buying $20 million houses and yachts. And the CEO of B of A didn't say he was forced to take the bailouts-just the second round of bailouts. If I were the all powerful bank tzar, I would abolish all interstate banks and prohibit foreign companies from operating in the U.S. No it wouldn't cripple our economy-we are still the biggest economy and if foreign companies want to do business here, they should be forced to do so with U.S. companies. No one is going to pack up and leave the largest economy so please don't use the normal "protectionist" propaganda. Banks are too big and foreign companies are draining a lot of capital out of the U.S. Let's worry about our economy for once and let the rest of the leeches around the world take care of themselves.
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425413
Many of those E-vile banks were forced to take money, FORCED to. While DICK Durbin is calling for people to leave Bank of America over the 5.00 Debit card fee he fails to mention it was a bill HE sponsored that ended the bank's ability to charge the fees to the retailers who accept the cards.
Also the government FORCED lenders to make a lot of the sub prime loans that led to this whole damn mess in the first place. The government also changed regulations that allowed bundling of financial securities that Freddie and Fanny bought allowing the banks to dump their high risk loans off on them.
American Express, Goldman Sachs and over 300 finance related companies changed to "banking entities" to qualify for bailouts. Dodd-Frank is a disaster, but if the banks are going to sleep with the dogs, they are going to get fleas. Last year banks recorded the biggest profits in their history. So why are they raising fees now? Oh yeah, they have to give the option of checking out of bouncing checks. There is no more free market in the financial sector; that is very much as the banks want it. I will not cry over a little bit of regulation when they all lined up with their hands out for my taxes so they could keep buying $20 million houses and yachts. And the CEO of B of A didn't say he was forced to take the bailouts-just the second round of bailouts. If I were the all powerful bank tzar, I would abolish all interstate banks and prohibit foreign companies from operating in the U.S. No it wouldn't cripple our economy-we are still the biggest economy and if foreign companies want to do business here, they should be forced to do so with U.S. companies. No one is going to pack up and leave the largest economy so please don't use the normal "protectionist" propaganda. Banks are too big and foreign companies are draining a lot of capital out of the U.S. Let's worry about our economy for once and let the rest of the leeches around the world take care of themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425399
I think it is completely fair to call these morons, marxist, communist socialists.
With this line of thinking then we can assume that Tea Party goers are all members of the KKK. There are always fringe elements. There are way too many people out there, saying the same thing, to just go along the conservative media talking points of claiming these are hippie, commie crackpots.
How soon we forget what happened in 2008. The banks and corporates got away with highway robbery by fraudulently setting in motion smoke and mirror mortgage loans, and then "our" government bailed them out (against the will of most Americans) .
Why be so quick to defend these criminals? When it comes to big banking and big business, free enterprise in this country is an illusion. Politicians are in the pockets of big money, and the rest of us (99%) are left holding the bag.
This group should learn a few things from their Tea Party counterparts in terms of organization, avoidance of law-breaking, and goal setting.
Does anyone ever wonder why conservative media dedicates so very much time and energy to trying to convince its listeners that bankers and big business are all the good guys and the solution to all our problems? Why would we think so after 2008? Naive.
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425399
I think it is completely fair to call these morons, marxist, communist socialists.
With this line of thinking then we can assume that Tea Party goers are all members of the KKK. There are always fringe elements. There are way too many people out there, saying the same thing, to just go along the conservative media talking points of claiming these are hippie, commie crackpots.
How soon we forget what happened in 2008. The banks and corporates got away with highway robbery by fraudulently setting in motion smoke and mirror mortgage loans, and then "our" government bailed them out (against the will of most Americans) .
Why be so quick to defend these criminals? When it comes to big banking and big business, free enterprise in this country is an illusion. Politicians are in the pockets of big money, and the rest of us (99%) are left holding the bag.
This group should learn a few things from their Tea Party counterparts in terms of organization, avoidance of law-breaking, and goal setting.
Does anyone ever wonder why conservative media dedicates so very much time and energy to trying to convince its listeners that bankers and big business are all the good guys and the solution to all our problems? Why would we think so after 2008? Naive.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425429
American Express, Goldman Sachs and over 300 finance related companies changed to "banking entities" to qualify for bailouts. Dodd-Frank is a disaster, but if the banks are going to sleep with the dogs, they are going to get fleas. Last year banks recorded the biggest profits in their history. So why are they raising fees now? Oh yeah, they have to give the option of checking out of bouncing checks. There is no more free market in the financial sector; that is very much as the banks want it. I will not cry over a little bit of regulation when they all lined up with their hands out for my taxes so they could keep buying $20 million houses and yachts. And the CEO of B of A didn't say he was forced to take the bailouts-just the second round of bailouts. If I were the all powerful bank tzar, I would abolish all interstate banks and prohibit foreign companies from operating in the U.S. No it wouldn't cripple our economy-we are still the biggest economy and if foreign companies want to do business here, they should be forced to do so with U.S. companies. No one is going to pack up and leave the largest economy so please don't use the normal "protectionist" propaganda. Banks are too big and foreign companies are draining a lot of capital out of the U.S. Let's worry about our economy for once and let the rest of the leeches around the world take care of themselves.
Banks recorded record profits? Not accurate but even if they did so what? This fee change law went into effect this year. B of A that you are so fond of mentioning lost money last year....
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425429
American Express, Goldman Sachs and over 300 finance related companies changed to "banking entities" to qualify for bailouts. Dodd-Frank is a disaster, but if the banks are going to sleep with the dogs, they are going to get fleas. Last year banks recorded the biggest profits in their history. So why are they raising fees now? Oh yeah, they have to give the option of checking out of bouncing checks. There is no more free market in the financial sector; that is very much as the banks want it. I will not cry over a little bit of regulation when they all lined up with their hands out for my taxes so they could keep buying $20 million houses and yachts. And the CEO of B of A didn't say he was forced to take the bailouts-just the second round of bailouts. If I were the all powerful bank tzar, I would abolish all interstate banks and prohibit foreign companies from operating in the U.S. No it wouldn't cripple our economy-we are still the biggest economy and if foreign companies want to do business here, they should be forced to do so with U.S. companies. No one is going to pack up and leave the largest economy so please don't use the normal "protectionist" propaganda. Banks are too big and foreign companies are draining a lot of capital out of the U.S. Let's worry about our economy for once and let the rest of the leeches around the world take care of themselves.
Banks recorded record profits? Not accurate but even if they did so what? This fee change law went into effect this year. B of A that you are so fond of mentioning lost money last year....
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425459
With this line of thinking then we can assume that Tea Party goers are all members of the KKK. There are always fringe elements. There are way too many people out there, saying the same thing, to just go along the conservative media talking points of claiming these are hippie, commie crackpots.
How soon we forget what happened in 2008. The banks and corporates got away with highway robbery by fraudulently setting in motion smoke and mirror mortgage loans, and then "our" government bailed them out (against the will of most Americans) .
Why be so quick to defend these criminals? When it comes to big banking and big business, free enterprise in this country is an illusion. Politicians are in the pockets of big money, and the rest of us (99%) are left holding the bag.
This group should learn a few things from their Tea Party counterparts in terms of organization, avoidance of law-breaking, and goal setting.
Does anyone ever wonder why conservative media dedicates so very much time and energy to trying to convince its listeners that bankers and big business are all the good guys and the solution to all our problems? Why would we think so after 2008? Naive.
While the banks did take this to a level never imagined it was stupidity on the government's part that created the mess. They didn't just encourage banks to make high risk mortgages, they required it.
As far as these protestors a whole lot of them are Marxists but I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush.
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425459
With this line of thinking then we can assume that Tea Party goers are all members of the KKK. There are always fringe elements. There are way too many people out there, saying the same thing, to just go along the conservative media talking points of claiming these are hippie, commie crackpots.
How soon we forget what happened in 2008. The banks and corporates got away with highway robbery by fraudulently setting in motion smoke and mirror mortgage loans, and then "our" government bailed them out (against the will of most Americans) .
Why be so quick to defend these criminals? When it comes to big banking and big business, free enterprise in this country is an illusion. Politicians are in the pockets of big money, and the rest of us (99%) are left holding the bag.
This group should learn a few things from their Tea Party counterparts in terms of organization, avoidance of law-breaking, and goal setting.
Does anyone ever wonder why conservative media dedicates so very much time and energy to trying to convince its listeners that bankers and big business are all the good guys and the solution to all our problems? Why would we think so after 2008? Naive.
While the banks did take this to a level never imagined it was stupidity on the government's part that created the mess. They didn't just encourage banks to make high risk mortgages, they required it.
As far as these protestors a whole lot of them are Marxists but I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush.
mantisman51
Active Member
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-13/wall-street-sees-record-revenue-in-09-10-recovery-from-government-bailout.html
I'll accept that 2011 hasn't been the greatest for the banks, but if BA said they lost money, I'll wait til the end of the fiscal year to see. Bloomberg is not a Marxist, anti-capitalism rag. So I think we can believe them. Now this is from December 2010, so I guess all that bailout capitalization could have cost them money this year, but I seriously doubt using tens of billions of $ of other peoples money won't cost them anything but will in fact make them a boat load. Reef, I respect what you say most of the time, but this time the Hannity/Limbaugh slant on this is all lies-not you, just some of the folks your listening to.
I'll accept that 2011 hasn't been the greatest for the banks, but if BA said they lost money, I'll wait til the end of the fiscal year to see. Bloomberg is not a Marxist, anti-capitalism rag. So I think we can believe them. Now this is from December 2010, so I guess all that bailout capitalization could have cost them money this year, but I seriously doubt using tens of billions of $ of other peoples money won't cost them anything but will in fact make them a boat load. Reef, I respect what you say most of the time, but this time the Hannity/Limbaugh slant on this is all lies-not you, just some of the folks your listening to.
darthtang aw
Active Member
those of you complaining about wall street acting like wall street, i have one question for you.
do you blame the lion for eating the goat placed in its pen......or do you blame the zookeeper for putting the goat in there?
darth (setting up for the hammer drop) Tang
do you blame the lion for eating the goat placed in its pen......or do you blame the zookeeper for putting the goat in there?
darth (setting up for the hammer drop) Tang