Fast and furious/Gun Walker

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker#post_3425286
I actually have other more important things to worry about than whether if I can't 'go packin;' everywhere I go. Unlike you, I don't live a life of paranoia where I look over my shoulder every minute of the day waiting for someone to jump me. You live somewhere in Rocky Mountain High where your worse fear is if the radio station will play another John Denver song, and I live in Little Mexico. Little ironic if you ask me.
Bionic (Bede, Bede, That's All Folks!) Arm
If they play John Denver songs on the radio I need the gun to go make fine adjustments to the transmitter
Reef(Folk is Dead)Raff

 

[mantisman51]

Nope, not ironic Bionic(though a little rhyming), just the way it should work. You choose not to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights and I choose to.That's the way it should work. Paranoid? You have better debating skills than that, I've heard(seen) you use them. There's a myriad of reasons for the 2nd Amendment-paranoia is not in the top 100. I would say if you are unarmed and not being robbed or killed, the 2nd Amendment is working fine-no need to take away law abiding citizens rights for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[darthtang aw]

I actually have other more important things to worry about than whether if I can't 'go packin;' everywhere I go.  Unlike you, I don't live a life of paranoia where I look over my shoulder every minute of the day waiting for someone to jump me.  You live somewhere in Rocky Mountain High where your worse fear is if the radio station will play another John Denver song, and I live in Little Mexico.  Little ironic if you ask me.
 
Bionic (Bede, Bede, That's All Folks!) Arm 
 
If I was paranoid.....don't you think I would own a gun? If you weren't paranoid...you wouldn't be demanding more restrictions and regulations for various issues from our government.
Darth (we open carry here) Tang

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3425355
Nope, not ironic Bionic(though a little rhyming), just the way it should work. You choose not to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights and I choose to.That's the way it should work. Paranoid? You have better debating skills than that, I've heard(seen) you use them. There's a myriad of reasons for the 2nd Amendment-paranoia is not in the top 100. I would say if you are unarmed and not being robbed or killed, the 2nd Amendment is working fine-no need to take away law abiding citizens rights for a problem that doesn't exist.
The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with keeping me safe. It's called local law enforcement. You know, the one's that have been properly trained on how to use a firearm? One of your Open Carry bretheren had another fire fight the other day here in a store parking lot. Saw some guy breaking into his car, and he pulled his little 9mm out and told him to move back. Problem was, the other guy was Open Carrying as well, and he pulled out his .45 and started shooting at the guy. The two began ducking and weaving between cars, firing in the general direction of one another. Meanwhile, several bullets just barely missed hitting a father and his two children walking out of the store. The .45 guy ended up putting a bullet into the 9mm guy, jumped in a car, and drove off. Funny thing, there was a sheriff inside the store when it all started. Instead of running out trying to get into the middle of it, he steered everyone clear of the front of the store, called for backup, and waited it out. They showed the outcome on the local news, and about five cars had nice little souvenirs of the event.
I'm sure this will get your goat. The DA has filed charges against 9mm guy. Attempted murder was one of the charges. Another one was illegal discharge of a weapon.
Bionic (they pack here in Texas as well, apparently) Arm

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3425577
The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with keeping me safe. It's called local law enforcement. You know, the one's that have been properly trained on how to use a firearm? One of your Open Carry bretheren had another fire fight the other day here in a store parking lot. Saw some guy breaking into his car, and he pulled his little 9mm out and told him to move back. Problem was, the other guy was Open Carrying as well, and he pulled out his .45 and started shooting at the guy. The two began ducking and weaving between cars, firing in the general direction of one another. Meanwhile, several bullets just barely missed hitting a father and his two children walking out of the store. The .45 guy ended up putting a bullet into the 9mm guy, jumped in a car, and drove off. Funny thing, there was a sheriff inside the store when it all started. Instead of running out trying to get into the middle of it, he steered everyone clear of the front of the store, called for backup, and waited it out. They showed the outcome on the local news, and about five cars had nice little souvenirs of the event.
I'm sure this will get your goat. The DA has filed charges against 9mm guy. Attempted murder was one of the charges. Another one was illegal discharge of a weapon.
Bionic (they pack here in Texas as well, apparently) Arm
Got link?
Attempted murder for such an incident sounds hokey.
I found a story from a year ago with eerily similar circumstances but completely different outcome.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Busy-parking-lot-is-scene-of-shootout-782506.php

 

[stdreb27]

There is no LEGAL open carry in texas, if someone was doing such thing, then it was illegal... So, it kinda ruins your point...

 

[mantisman51]

Also, Bionic, you (as usual) looked at it backwards. The fact that others are carrying firearms, as is their right, has not resulted in physical damage to you. Therefore there is no problem, so for you to want to take away everyone's Constitutional rights is illogical. Also, I can post tens of thousands of true stories of people's lives being saved every day by privately held firearms. Also, as Ruben mentioned, it is illegal to open carry and very likely he would have been arrested before the gunfight at the ok parking lot. I call bullshiite.

 

[darthtang aw]

well...what about that guy that went nuts, left his car in traffic, robbed a gun shop and went on a killing spree.....that right there also backs up bionics point. that guy even had automatic weapons...wait that was a movie.
darth (bionic got owned) Tang

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3425624
Got link?
Attempted murder for such an incident sounds hokey.
I found a story from a year ago with eerily similar circumstances but completely different outcome.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Busy-parking-lot-is-scene-of-shootout-782506.php
Same scenario, but at a grocery store this time. Guess when it happens a second time in two years, the DA wants to make a statement about these self-proclaimed law keepers.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3425651
Also, Bionic, you (as usual) looked at it backwards. The fact that others are carrying firearms, as is their right, has not resulted in physical damage to you. Therefore there is no problem, so for you to want to take away everyone's Constitutional rights is illogical. Also, I can post tens of thousands of true stories of people's lives being saved every day by privately held firearms. Also, as Ruben mentioned, it is illegal to open carry and very likely he would have been arrested before the gunfight at the ok parking lot. I call bullshiite.
Tens of thousands? You're dillusional. There's also tens of thousands of reports where some guy carrying got cocky when someone rubbed him the wrong way, and pulled a weapon out daring the guy to do something. Somehow I vision you doing that. I see you're still celebrating the mass shooting in Cali. Karma was it?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3425886
Same scenario, but at a grocery store this time. Guess when it happens a second time in two years, the DA wants to make a statement about these self-proclaimed law keepers.
Got link? I still want to know why the victim would be charged with attempted murder when the assailant also had a gun. You got to be missing a big piece of the story because if I am not mistaken the Texas castle law extends to property as well, remember the old guy who got off for whacking the two illegals who were leaving his neighbors house they had robbed? Even if the other guy didn't have a gun the victim has a right to use deadly force to protect his property.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3425634
There is no LEGAL open carry in texas, if someone was doing such thing, then it was illegal... So, it kinda ruins your point...
No, there's a concealed weapons permit in Texas, which makes it even better. Unless there's a sign posted at the establishment, an individual is allowed to take their concealed weapon with them into the establishment. Can't take it into any establishment that sells alcohol. They just changed the law to where a person with a concealed weapons licene can now store their weapon in their vehicle in the parking lot when the individual is employed. Places they can't 'carry':

• 
  A government court.
• 
  A business that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption.
• 
  A school or educational institution, high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event that is taking place.
• 
  A hospital or nursing home.
• 
  An amusement park.
• 
  A place of religious worship.
• 
  A polling place on the day of an election.
• 
  A meeting of a governing body.
  A race track.
  A secured area of an airport.
  A correctional facility.
  A correctional facility or within 1000 feet of such, on the day of an execution.
  The property of another after receiving notice that concealed handguns are forbidden on that property.
  It is unlawful to possess a firearm in a penal institution.
  It is unlawful for a handgun license holder to carry a handgun while intoxicated.
  It is unlawful for a handgun license holder to carry a handgun and intentionally fail to conceal the handgun.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3425899
Got link? I still want to know why the victim would be charged with attempted murder when the assailant also had a gun. You got to be missing a big piece of the story because if I am not mistaken the Texas castle law extends to property as well, remember the old guy who got off for whacking the two illegals who were leaving his neighbors house they had robbed? Even if the other guy didn't have a gun the victim has a right to use deadly force to protect his property.
The attempted murder charge wasn't against the assailant. It was some "inventive" way to prosecute the guy for almost shooting an innocent man and/or his kids that were walking out of the store. It happened a couple of weeks ago. Saw the story in the same paper that referenced the other story. That was hardcopy.
Regarding the Castle Doctrine, the law states:
A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
The intent was if someone was breaking into your vehicle while it was parked at your primary residence. Howevver, there have been charges dropped when a vehicle break-in occured off premises. On the other hand, you can no longer apply the Castle Doctrine argument once the individual is no longer threatening or occupying your vehicle. You can't go chasing the guy down the street, in a parking lot, whatever, and shoot the individual once the attempted break-in has ceased. In this scenario, there's a gray area as to when the threat to your life begins and ends. A logical person would've run to a protected area, yelled at the assailant that he was calling the cops, and he'd better leave before an innocent person was killed. Nine chances out of ten, the assailant would run away, and that would be the end of it.

 

[reefraff]

Link? I mean if the year old incident is so easy to find why is there nothing about one in which attempted murder is being charged against the victim? A much more interesting story I'd want to see the outcome of. I'd like to send the victim a couple hundred for his defense too.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3425910
Link? I mean if the year old incident is so easy to find why is there nothing about one in which attempted murder is being charged against the victim? A much more interesting story I'd want to see the outcome of. I'd like to send the victim a couple hundred for his defense too.
I don't dictate what articles the Express News posts on their online web site. Like I said, I read it in my hardcopy edition a couple of weeks ago, and saw some clips of it on one of our local news stations. Contact the Bexar County DA's office if you're so concerned about a fellow gun toter, and want to contribute to his legal funds. I personally could care less.

 

[geridoc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker#post_3424999
The rate of violent crime was far worse in NY than TX to begin with, so I can believe that. But the fact that NYC has 34000 cops who are all over the city 24 hours a day has gone a long way toward easing that crime rate. Our nation cannot afford to have the population equivalent of police to citizens throughout the country-nor should we. The taxes required to support such a police state is unbelievable. And, frankly, NYC is the exception by far. Look at Philly, Boston, Detroit, Chicago, LA, SF, etc, it is quite a different story. Geri, the fact that you would rather be in NY, than San Angelo explains it all. Here in Cochise County we are larger than 6 states and have a population of 120k. You willing to pay to have a cop on every street corner for me? But all these statistics are a distraction for me. While I would rather have a weapon and depend on myself and have a less intrusive government, that really means little. Our Constitution gives every American the right to bear(carry) arms for national and personal defense and, according to John Adams and Thomas Jefferson in the Federalist Papers, to keep those in government from over-stepping their bounds. Not for over-throwing the government, but to keep a healthy fear of the people in the politicians and bureaucrats. I get that a lot of people are too afraid to take care of themselves and want the police to be their security blanket, but self determination must also have self reliance and you can't have freedom and a police state. Trading freedom for the illusion of security doesn't make one civilized, just cowardly. The right to bear arms isn't just for us "gun nuts". It's your right as well. If you choose not to exercise your right, that doesn't negate the need for or the right itself.
It is true that NY city had a far worse violent crime rate than Texas to begin (1995), but if you compare the non-metropolitan areas there was still a greater drop in violent crime in states that ban guns (Pennsylvania, New Jersey, etc) than in there was in Texas. I'm certainly not going to argue that not carrying guns was a cause of this change - there were many reasons. I just don't think that your point that states that permit guns more easily are safer because of that is supportable.

 

[darthtang aw]

It is true that NY city had a far worse violent crime rate than Texas to begin (1995), but if you compare the non-metropolitan areas there was still a greater drop in violent crime in states that ban guns (Pennsylvania, New Jersey, etc) than in there was in Texas.  I'm certainly not going to argue that not carrying guns was a cause of this change - there were many reasons.  I just don't think that your point that states that permit guns more easily are safer because of that is supportable. 
 
i would think mentallity towards such entities as gangs and such play a factor as well. new york is going to have a higher poverty index than other areas. poverty index will always influence towards a higher violent crime rate.

 

[reefraff]

Hmm. Bexar County DA must not be interested in sending any messages cause they didn't even bother to issue a press release about the incident. The "gun nut" websites must also not know about this because they'd be ablaze with the typical blather if they did. Why all the secrecy?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3425968
Hmm. Bexar County DA must not be interested in sending any messages cause they didn't even bother to issue a press release about the incident. The "gun nut" websites must also not know about this because they'd be ablaze with the typical blather if they did. Why all the secrecy?
Always with the conspiracy theories. We average about 1 - 3 shootings per week here in San Antonio lately. Does the media provide detailed reports on all of them? Not always. I see something about a shooting outside someone's home, at a bar, in a parking lot, etc. in a 15 - 30 second news story on the 10PM news all the time. Sometimes they continue to follow the stories, sometimes they don't. That's what happens in a city with a couple million people in it. This isn't podunk Aurora

.
Was there a bunch of noise being made on the "gun nut" websites when the other similar incident that occurred in front of the Academy a year or so ago? Oh that's right. He got attaboys from his breatheren for shooting up a parking lot, and not getting charged for it. Wonder if he'd gotten the same response if an innocent bystander would've gotten shot as he did his re-creation of the Gunfight at The OK Corral.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/20#post_3426090
Always with the conspiracy theories. We average about 1 - 3 shootings per week here in San Antonio lately. Does the media provide detailed reports on all of them? Not always. I see something about a shooting outside someone's home, at a bar, in a parking lot, etc. in a 15 - 30 second news story on the 10PM news all the time. Sometimes they continue to follow the stories, sometimes they don't. That's what happens in a city with a couple million people in it. This isn't podunk Aurora

.
Was there a bunch of noise being made on the "gun nut" websites when the other similar incident that occurred in front of the Academy a year or so ago? Oh that's right. He got attaboys from his breatheren for shooting up a parking lot, and not getting charged for it. Wonder if he'd gotten the same response if an innocent bystander would've gotten shot as he did his re-creation of the Gunfight at The OK Corral.
Podunk? Aurora is part of the Denver metro area, population 2.5 million thank you very much
When someone gets charged using their gun to protect themselves or their property yes, the internet both pro and anti gun goes nuts as in the case with the feller that whacked the illegals coming out of his neighbor's house