Fast and furious/Gun Walker

reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/40#post_3426524
The fear is when someone toting a gun around with them pulls a stunt like what happened in this Acdemy and grocery store parking lot. Mantis praises himself for being complacent about not going "road rage" and pulling up to this stereotypical "gangsta" and "popping a couple off" because he was intimidating him on the freeway. However, I read in my local paper where this type of confrontation happens, and one of the two drivers does pull out a gun. I don't care if the occurrances are rare or not. All it takes in ONE incident, and one or more innocent people can be harmed or killed because of it. But I guess you'd just brush that off as "collateral damage".
How many people were killed last year by an honest citizen exercising his right to defend himself vs those killed by a criminal shooting unarmed citizens?
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

How many people were killed last year by an honest citizen exercising his right to defend himself vs those killed by a criminal shooting unarmed citizens?
 
 
 
dont hold your breath waiting for an answer. he can't even provide a link to his suppossed story.....the one where the people were open carrying a gun.....something illegal to begin with in the state of texas.........but i bet he knows a guy.....
darth (i know a guy) Tang
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426576
dont hold your breath waiting for an answer. he can't even provide a link to his suppossed story.....the one where the people were open carrying a gun.....something illegal to begin with in the state of texas.........but i bet he knows a guy.....
darth (i know a guy) Tang
When did I say they were open carrying? You and streb-brain have this notion I said people in Texas are llowed to carry a gun in open. CONCEALED WEAPON LICENSE. You know. HIDE WEAPON UNDER SHIRT OR JACKET. PULL WEAPON. SHOOT. GO BANG.
Bionic (Darth talking out his rear again) Arm
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with keeping me safe.  It's called local law enforcement.  You know, the one's that have been properly trained on how to use a firearm?  One of your Open Carry bretheren had another fire fight the other day here in a store parking lot.  Saw some guy breaking into his car, and he pulled his little 9mm out and told him to move back.  Problem was, the other guy was Open Carrying as well, and he pulled out his .45 and started shooting at the guy.  The two began ducking and weaving between cars, firing in the general direction of one another.  Meanwhile, several bullets just barely missed hitting a father and his two children walking out of the store.  The .45 guy ended up putting a bullet into the 9mm guy, jumped in a car, and drove off.  Funny thing, there was a sheriff inside the store when it all started.  Instead of running out trying to get into the middle of it, he steered everyone clear of the front of the store, called for backup, and waited it out.  They showed the outcome on the local news, and about five cars had nice little souvenirs of the event.
 
I'm sure this will get your goat.  The DA has filed charges against 9mm guy.  Attempted murder was one of the charges.  Another one was illegal discharge of a weapon. 
 
Bionic (they pack here in Texas as well, apparently) Arm
You clearly state OPEN CARRYING twice in this falacy of a story. I can read.
Darth (how many times can you be owned in one thread) Tang
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426595
You tell me. You're the great statistician. One is one too many.
So I should lose my right to defend myself if even one person is ever harmed by someone else doing the same thing?
Here is a list of incidents where an armed citizen used their gun to defend themselves over a couple year period
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcInfoBase.asp?CatID=43
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426600
So I should lose my right to defend myself if even one person is ever harmed by someone else doing the same thing?
Here is a list of incidents where an armed citizen used their gun to defend themselves over a couple year period
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcInfoBase.asp?CatID=43
Reef - you know better. Try Googling "bystanders killed by gunfire" and you will find more than 30 pages returned, many off the point, but nevertheless it is clear that lots of innocents are killed by people using guns to defend themselves. To answer you question of whether you should lose your right to defend yourself, the answer is "no", but that right is not unfettered and has to be controlled by society so that the net benefit is in society's favor. I think that is called civilization.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426597
You clearly state OPEN CARRYING twice in this falacy of a story. I can read.
Darth (how many times can you be owned in one thread) Tang
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426600
So I should lose my right to defend myself if even one person is ever harmed by someone else doing the same thing?
Here is a list of incidents where an armed citizen used their gun to defend themselves over a couple year period
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcInfoBase.asp?CatID=43
When it involves protecting yourself in a public area where you have the potential of harming even one innocent bystander? Yes.
I have a shotgun and a pistol that I use for home protection. I've taught my wife and daughters the proper way to use those weapons, how to load them, where they are stored, etc., so that if they needed that protection when I'm not home, they know how to defend themselves with them. However, I have no desire or inclination to take either weapon with me when I leave my home for any reason. I don't have this sense of fear that I may wind up in a situation where I'd need the weapon to protect myself. Sure, a random attack or someone theatening me could happen at any time, but so far that situation has never occurred. I never go to areas where I know I could be attacked. If I'm in a suspicious area of town, I go with large groups. Is it because I'm aware of my suroundings at all times? I'm not a small person (6' 2" at 240 lbs.), so maybe I look a little intimidating to someone who would think I'd be an "easy target"?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426841
Reef - you know better. Try Googling "bystanders killed by gunfire" and you will find more than 30 pages returned, many off the point, but nevertheless it is clear that lots of innocents are killed by people using guns to defend themselves. To answer you question of whether you should lose your right to defend yourself, the answer is "no", but that right is not unfettered and has to be controlled by society so that the net benefit is in society's favor. I think that is called civilization.
Just did that. In the first 3 pages not one incident of a bystander being killed by someone in the act of defending themselves, EXCEPT for two incidents where POLICE shot bystanders. The typical left wing rags had articles that had the Headline "Concealed Carryer Nearly kills innocent man. The incident in question was the Tucson shooting. A man ran out of Walgreens and in all the chaos saw a man holding the shooters gun. The carryer placed his hand on his holstered gun, released the safety and told the guy to drop the gun. When others told him that wasn't the shooter he turned the safety back on and helped hold the shooter down. That my friends is textbook firearms safety.
If anyone doubts my claim about the first 3 pages check for yourself.
http://www.google.com/search?q=bystander+killed+by+gunfire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial&client=firefox-a
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426854
When it involves protecting yourself in a public area where you have the potential of harming even one innocent bystander? Yes.
I have a shotgun and a pistol that I use for home protection. I've taught my wife and daughters the proper way to use those weapons, how to load them, where they are stored, etc., so that if they needed that protection when I'm not home, they know how to defend themselves with them. However, I have no desire or inclination to take either weapon with me when I leave my home for any reason. I don't have this sense of fear that I may wind up in a situation where I'd need the weapon to protect myself. Sure, a random attack or someone theatening me could happen at any time, but so far that situation has never occurred. I never go to areas where I know I could be attacked. If I'm in a suspicious area of town, I go with large groups. Is it because I'm aware of my suroundings at all times? I'm not a small person (6' 2" at 240 lbs.), so maybe I look a little intimidating to someone who would think I'd be an "easy target"?
So a bullet can't go through a wall or window in your home and strike someone on the street or in another house? LOL!
I go a little over 6'5". I always figure MOST people who would start crap with me are going to be armed because of my size.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426841
Reef - you know better. Try Googling "bystanders killed by gunfire" and you will find more than 30 pages returned, many off the point, but nevertheless it is clear that lots of innocents are killed by people using guns to defend themselves. To answer you question of whether you should lose your right to defend yourself, the answer is "no", but that right is not unfettered and has to be controlled by society so that the net benefit is in society's favor. I think that is called civilization.
So is it civilized to force people to patiently sit in their salon chairs and wait for their turn to be butchered? Also, Geri, you know darn well, most people shot as bystanders is from gang shootouts the vast majority of the time. I will be honest, I am sickened that American citizens would speak about the nobility of dying like cowards so as not to risk an "innocent" being hurt and the evil of fighting for one's life. That is not civilization, that is cowardice that will lead to anarchy-a la Mexico. A country with a near total ban on firearms and 15000-20000 gun murders a year.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I just spend some time on the Brady website reading through their CCW holder misdeeds list. Went bout half way through and never saw a single case where a holder hit a bystander in the process of using their weapon for self defense. A search specifically for concealed carry holder shooting bystander did turn up an incident where a holder shot at a guy he had an argument with but missed and hit someone else. Even though that wasn't a legitimate use we'll call that one incident.
A search of Concealed carry permit holder accidentally shoots... Didn't turn anything up either, accept the case where a guy got out of the barbers chair, adjusted his pants and his gun fell to the floor, went off and shot the barber in the butt
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
The difference between you and me is that you're trying to saying your view is the only view, and should be imposed on everyone. I have no problem if you don't want to carry a gun. You shouldn't be forced to do what I feel is right for me and my family...
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426895
So a bullet can't go through a wall or window in your home and strike someone on the street or in another house? LOL!
I go a little over 6'5". I always figure MOST people who would start crap with me are going to be armed because of my size.
How far do you think a 12 guage shotgun blast could go after going through a 1" wood blind and double-pane window? A .308 could go through a window, but no brick wall that I know of. Splitting hairs again I see.
Your reverse logic doesn't work. Don't know too many people who with pick a fight with a guy that's 6'5" just because they think they could "take you down". I know I wouldn't.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426967
The difference between you and me is that you're trying to saying your view is the only view, and should be imposed on everyone. I have no problem if you don't want to carry a gun. You shouldn't be forced to do what I feel is right for me and my family...
Sorry, that's what a Tea Paty/Republican would say. You need to protect your family in Corpus? From what, some Spring Breaker wanting to force you to drink another beer bong?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426909
So is it civilized to force people to patiently sit in their salon chairs and wait for their turn to be butchered? Also, Geri, you know darn well, most people shot as bystanders is from gang shootouts the vast majority of the time. I will be honest, I am sickened that American citizens would speak about the nobility of dying like cowards so as not to risk an "innocent" being hurt and the evil of fighting for one's life. That is not civilization, that is cowardice that will lead to anarchy-a la Mexico. A country with a near total ban on firearms and 15000-20000 gun murders a year.
15,000 - 20,000 a year? Try around 34,000 in 4 1/2 years. Let the drug cartels move into the US, and that number would double over here. Like I told you, the salon incident was a total surprise. If every person in there had a firearm in their possesion, you'd still have the same dead count. If he'd seen anyone brandishing a gun, he would've shot them before they had a chance to shoot. He had the upper-hand, the element of surprise. That's the way the drug cartels work. They just pull up to a public place, jump out with Uzi's, AK's, AR-15's and every other type of semi-auto (and automatic) weapon and start shooting. You think you could get a round off with bullets spraying you in all directions?
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member

 
15,000 - 20,000 a year?  Try around 34,000 in 4 1/2 years.  Let the drug cartels move into the US, and that number would double over here.  Like I told you, the salon incident was a total surprise.  If every person in there had a firearm in their possesion, you'd still have the same dead count.  If he'd seen anyone brandishing a gun, he would've shot them before they had a chance to shoot.  He had the upper-hand, the element of surprise.  That's the way the drug cartels work.  They just pull up to a public place, jump out with Uzi's, AK's, AR-15's and every other type of semi-auto (and automatic) weapon and start shooting.  You think you could get a round off with bullets spraying you in all directions? 
You may have not had the same death count. An armed citizen may have been in a position to take out the bad guy.
Be careful about the "automatic" weapons. They are rarely used in crime as they are much more expensive and very tightly controlled by the NFA. The press loves the term "assault rife", AK-47 , etc. Those are rarely true, rather semi aUto clones.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426970
How far do you think a 12 guage shotgun blast could go after going through a 1" wood blind and double-pane window? A .308 could go through a window, but no brick wall that I know of. Splitting hairs again I see.
Your reverse logic doesn't work. Don't know too many people who with pick a fight with a guy that's 6'5" just because they think they could "take you down". I know I wouldn't.
What it means is there aren't a whole lot of people who are going after someone a lot bigger than them without an equalizer.
And yes, a 380 or shot gun blast can easily go through double pane windows or wood siding. If some innocent was walking down the street they could be inured or killed by either. Then again they could be killed by a part falling off a commercial air liner so maybe we should ban those too, the odds are about the same.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/388324/fast-and-furious-gun-walker/60#post_3426998
You may have not had the same death count. An armed citizen may have been in a position to take out the bad guy.
Be careful about the "automatic" weapons. They are rarely used in crime as they are much more expensive and very tightly controlled by the NFA. The press loves the term "assault rife", AK-47 , etc. Those are rarely true, rather semi aUto clones.
There are no regulations in Mexico when it comes to the drug cartels. Not very difficult to turn an AR-15 into a fully auto. Little modification to the sear pin and just pull the trigger until the magazine is empty.
http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top