Fiscal Cliff. Thrill ride to fiscal sanity or the end of civilization as we know it
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bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it#post_3506372
Who votes them through? Who puts the bill on the table? And what does the media do to flag these issues? and who holds the ultimate veto?
How many Presidents do you know that have used the line-item veto on every single bill that passes his desk? Because that's essentially what it would take. I'd guess 95% of the bills that are passed into law have some form of "strings" attached. Go look up the process of what it takes from the initial concept of a bill, all the way up to when it reaches the Presidents desk. You have a sub-committee, that reports to a sub-committee, that reports to one of the more "lucative" commitees that debate and dictate if the bill even makes it to an initial vote by the Committee That Votes On It Before It Reaches The House Floor. All during this process, you have the lobbyist, the PAC's, the constituents, and who knows who else poking their input in that it "would be in the best interest of a particular Congressman to add this funding for this "little" project in his home state to the bill. You know, the one's who got you ELECTED." The "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" ideology. So they design the bill to where it ends up being 300 pages of legal jargon, with hidden little agenda's mixed in. Of course your elected officials don't have the time to sit down and actually read the thing. That's the responsibility of the 8 or 10 people he has working for him/her on the taxpayer's dime. They just give the Actual Voter the "abridged version". Then there's the back door deals between the Congressmen and Senators - "I'll give you $50 million for that fishery in your home state of Alaska, you give me $35 million for that new NASCAR track in my home state of Tennessee, and I'll back you on your bill." If it ever does reach the President, it's sitting there with 30 or 40 other bills just as long. We know the President has ALL DAY to sit down and read every one from start to finish. I mean, what else does he have to do? There's always that all important 10 o'clock tee time he can't miss....
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it#post_3506372
Who votes them through? Who puts the bill on the table? And what does the media do to flag these issues? and who holds the ultimate veto?
How many Presidents do you know that have used the line-item veto on every single bill that passes his desk? Because that's essentially what it would take. I'd guess 95% of the bills that are passed into law have some form of "strings" attached. Go look up the process of what it takes from the initial concept of a bill, all the way up to when it reaches the Presidents desk. You have a sub-committee, that reports to a sub-committee, that reports to one of the more "lucative" commitees that debate and dictate if the bill even makes it to an initial vote by the Committee That Votes On It Before It Reaches The House Floor. All during this process, you have the lobbyist, the PAC's, the constituents, and who knows who else poking their input in that it "would be in the best interest of a particular Congressman to add this funding for this "little" project in his home state to the bill. You know, the one's who got you ELECTED." The "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" ideology. So they design the bill to where it ends up being 300 pages of legal jargon, with hidden little agenda's mixed in. Of course your elected officials don't have the time to sit down and actually read the thing. That's the responsibility of the 8 or 10 people he has working for him/her on the taxpayer's dime. They just give the Actual Voter the "abridged version". Then there's the back door deals between the Congressmen and Senators - "I'll give you $50 million for that fishery in your home state of Alaska, you give me $35 million for that new NASCAR track in my home state of Tennessee, and I'll back you on your bill." If it ever does reach the President, it's sitting there with 30 or 40 other bills just as long. We know the President has ALL DAY to sit down and read every one from start to finish. I mean, what else does he have to do? There's always that all important 10 o'clock tee time he can't miss....
bang guy
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506389
How many Presidents do you know that have used the line-item veto on every single bill that passes his desk?
There is no line-item veto so that's not really a valid argument.
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506389
How many Presidents do you know that have used the line-item veto on every single bill that passes his desk?
There is no line-item veto so that's not really a valid argument.
darthtang aw
Active Member
How many Presidents do you know that have used the line-item veto on every single bill that passes his desk? Because that's essentially what it would take. I'd guess 95% of the bills that are passed into law have some form of "strings" attached. Go look up the process of what it takes from the initial concept of a bill, all the way up to when it reaches the Presidents desk. You have a sub-committee, that reports to a sub-committee, that reports to one of the more "lucative" commitees that debate and dictate if the bill even makes it to an initial vote by the Committee That Votes On It Before It Reaches The House Floor. All during this process, you have the lobbyist, the PAC's, the constituents, and who knows who else poking their input in that it "would be in the best interest of a particular Congressman to add this funding for this "little" project in his home state to the bill. You know, the one's who got you ELECTED." The "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" ideology. So they design the bill to where it ends up being 300 pages of legal jargon, with hidden little agenda's mixed in. Of course your elected officials don't have the time to sit down and actually read the thing. That's the responsibility of the 8 or 10 people he has working for him/her on the taxpayer's dime. They just give the Actual Voter the "abridged version". Then there's the back door deals between the Congressmen and Senators - "I'll give you $50 million for that fishery in your home state of Alaska, you give me $35 million for that new NASCAR track in my home state of Tennessee, and I'll back you on your bill." If it ever does reach the President, it's sitting there with 30 or 40 other bills just as long. We know the President has ALL DAY to sit down and read every one from start to finish. I mean, what else does he have to do? There's always that all important 10 o'clock tee time he can't miss....
So you are excusing the practice based off this explanation?
So you are excusing the practice based off this explanation?
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by zman1 http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506386
Maybe we can cut these Dark Red and Dark Blue states off welfare, would save tons of money.
Seems like a most valid solution to me. How you doin?
Originally Posted by zman1 http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506386
Maybe we can cut these Dark Red and Dark Blue states off welfare, would save tons of money.
Seems like a most valid solution to me. How you doin?
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506402
So you are excusing the practice based off this explanation?
No, I'm telling you what the standard practice is in Washington. They've done it this way for as long as I can remember, yet people accept it as the status quo. You want to fix wasteful spending, fix the system that generates it. We The People keep voting these people in. You had guys like Strom Thurman and Ted Kennedy who were in office for what, 47 years? They used to wheel Strom into the Rotunda, let him sit there and sleep, then wake him up to tell him what voting button to push. I honestly think they hand Freshmen Congressmen these handbooks on how to "wheel and deal your way to prosperity" the first day they walk into their office. These "tag-on funding bills" just don't appear out of thin air. Someone's cooking them up somewhere, and they all just get together and pass each other's around until they can find a "hole" to stick it into some innocuous bill to get it passed. Then they go home as welcomed heros to their constituents, showing them how they got funding for their "personal piece of the Federal Pie", which in turn gets them re-elected for another term. The constituents don't complain because they "got thier's", and feel it's justified because they constantly get screwed by rising taxes and other federal regulations. What's ironic is you list all these wasteful spending projects the Feds threw money at, and there's probably at least two or three sitting out there that your home state received, and you're reeping the benefits of those programs as we speak. So since you elected your Senators and Congressmen, and they willingly created and approved these spending boondoggles, you are indirectly responsible for these actions.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506402
So you are excusing the practice based off this explanation?
No, I'm telling you what the standard practice is in Washington. They've done it this way for as long as I can remember, yet people accept it as the status quo. You want to fix wasteful spending, fix the system that generates it. We The People keep voting these people in. You had guys like Strom Thurman and Ted Kennedy who were in office for what, 47 years? They used to wheel Strom into the Rotunda, let him sit there and sleep, then wake him up to tell him what voting button to push. I honestly think they hand Freshmen Congressmen these handbooks on how to "wheel and deal your way to prosperity" the first day they walk into their office. These "tag-on funding bills" just don't appear out of thin air. Someone's cooking them up somewhere, and they all just get together and pass each other's around until they can find a "hole" to stick it into some innocuous bill to get it passed. Then they go home as welcomed heros to their constituents, showing them how they got funding for their "personal piece of the Federal Pie", which in turn gets them re-elected for another term. The constituents don't complain because they "got thier's", and feel it's justified because they constantly get screwed by rising taxes and other federal regulations. What's ironic is you list all these wasteful spending projects the Feds threw money at, and there's probably at least two or three sitting out there that your home state received, and you're reeping the benefits of those programs as we speak. So since you elected your Senators and Congressmen, and they willingly created and approved these spending boondoggles, you are indirectly responsible for these actions.
darthtang aw
Active Member
I amNo, I'm telling you what the standard practice is in Washington. They've done it this way for as long as I can remember, yet people accept it as the status quo. You want to fix wasteful spending, fix the system that generates it. We The People keep voting these people in. You had guys like Strom Thurman and Ted Kennedy who were in office for what, 47 years? They used to wheel Strom into the Rotunda, let him sit there and sleep, then wake him up to tell him what voting button to push. I honestly think they hand Freshmen Congressmen these handbooks on how to "wheel and deal your way to prosperity" the first day they walk into their office. These "tag-on funding bills" just don't appear out of thin air. Someone's cooking them up somewhere, and they all just get together and pass each other's around until they can find a "hole" to stick it into some innocuous bill to get it passed. Then they go home as welcomed heros to their constituents, showing them how they got funding for their "personal piece of the Federal Pie", which in turn gets them re-elected for another term. The constituents don't complain because they "got thier's", and feel it's justified because they constantly get screwed by rising taxes and other federal regulations. What's ironic is you list all these wasteful spending projects the Feds threw money at, and there's probably at least two or three sitting out there that your home state received, and you're reeping the benefits of those programs as we speak. So since you elected your Senators and Congressmen, and they willingly created and approved these spending boondoggles, you are indirectly responsible for these actions.
only indirectly responsible if I voted for them. Which I didn't. How many of your senators and representatives voted for this bill that you did vote for? How many voted against it that you voted for?
only indirectly responsible if I voted for them. Which I didn't. How many of your senators and representatives voted for this bill that you did vote for? How many voted against it that you voted for?
bang guy
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506482
No, I'm telling you what the standard practice is in Washington. They've done it this way for as long as I can remember, yet people accept it as the status quo. You want to fix wasteful spending, fix the system that generates it. We The People keep voting these people in. You had guys like Strom Thurman and Ted Kennedy who were in office for what, 47 years? They used to wheel Strom into the Rotunda, let him sit there and sleep, then wake him up to tell him what voting button to push. I honestly think they hand Freshmen Congressmen these handbooks on how to "wheel and deal your way to prosperity" the first day they walk into their office. These "tag-on funding bills" just don't appear out of thin air. Someone's cooking them up somewhere, and they all just get together and pass each other's around until they can find a "hole" to stick it into some innocuous bill to get it passed. Then they go home as welcomed heros to their constituents, showing them how they got funding for their "personal piece of the Federal Pie", which in turn gets them re-elected for another term. The constituents don't complain because they "got thier's", and feel it's justified because they constantly get screwed by rising taxes and other federal regulations. What's ironic is you list all these wasteful spending projects the Feds threw money at, and there's probably at least two or three sitting out there that your home state received, and you're reeping the benefits of those programs as we speak. So since you elected your Senators and Congressmen, and they willingly created and approved these spending boondoggles, you are indirectly responsible for these actions.
Agreed.
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506482
No, I'm telling you what the standard practice is in Washington. They've done it this way for as long as I can remember, yet people accept it as the status quo. You want to fix wasteful spending, fix the system that generates it. We The People keep voting these people in. You had guys like Strom Thurman and Ted Kennedy who were in office for what, 47 years? They used to wheel Strom into the Rotunda, let him sit there and sleep, then wake him up to tell him what voting button to push. I honestly think they hand Freshmen Congressmen these handbooks on how to "wheel and deal your way to prosperity" the first day they walk into their office. These "tag-on funding bills" just don't appear out of thin air. Someone's cooking them up somewhere, and they all just get together and pass each other's around until they can find a "hole" to stick it into some innocuous bill to get it passed. Then they go home as welcomed heros to their constituents, showing them how they got funding for their "personal piece of the Federal Pie", which in turn gets them re-elected for another term. The constituents don't complain because they "got thier's", and feel it's justified because they constantly get screwed by rising taxes and other federal regulations. What's ironic is you list all these wasteful spending projects the Feds threw money at, and there's probably at least two or three sitting out there that your home state received, and you're reeping the benefits of those programs as we speak. So since you elected your Senators and Congressmen, and they willingly created and approved these spending boondoggles, you are indirectly responsible for these actions.
Agreed.
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506491
I am only indirectly responsible if I voted for them. Which I didn't. How many of your senators and representatives voted for this bill that you did vote for? How many voted against it that you voted for?
I can honestly say there is not one Senator or House Congressman from the State of Texas that is currently in Washington that I voted for. Not one. The Democrats from Texas are just as big of a crook than the Republicans.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506491
I am only indirectly responsible if I voted for them. Which I didn't. How many of your senators and representatives voted for this bill that you did vote for? How many voted against it that you voted for?
I can honestly say there is not one Senator or House Congressman from the State of Texas that is currently in Washington that I voted for. Not one. The Democrats from Texas are just as big of a crook than the Republicans.
darthtang aw
Active Member
I can honestly say there is not one Senator or House Congressman from the State of Texas that is currently in Washington that I voted for. Not one. The Democrats from Texas are just as big of a crook than the Republicans.
So the one senator with some fiscal responsibility you did not support. And the senator with no fiscal responsibility you didn't support either.
So the one senator with some fiscal responsibility you did not support. And the senator with no fiscal responsibility you didn't support either.
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506560
So the one senator with some fiscal responsibility you did not support. And the senator with no fiscal responsibility you didn't support either.
Nope.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it/20#post_3506560
So the one senator with some fiscal responsibility you did not support. And the senator with no fiscal responsibility you didn't support either.
Nope.
uneverno
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it#post_3506297
EVERYTHING HAS TO BE CUT. SS and Medicare will have to be cut BUT we should start with the BS and wasteful garbage first. It isn't going to make a huge difference but it sends the right message about where our priorities are.
Unfortunately.
We the people will not be listened to.
We the corporate persons will.
Our, so called, representatives are uninterested in "We the People's" opinions. Those are financially worthless to them.
They are only interested in their corporate sponsorships. Money buys votes and the electorate are broke.
Money = speech
Corporations are people
Capitalism has reached its logical extreme.
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393948/fiscal-cliff-thrill-ride-to-fiscal-sanity-or-the-end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it#post_3506297
EVERYTHING HAS TO BE CUT. SS and Medicare will have to be cut BUT we should start with the BS and wasteful garbage first. It isn't going to make a huge difference but it sends the right message about where our priorities are.
Unfortunately.
We the people will not be listened to.
We the corporate persons will.
Our, so called, representatives are uninterested in "We the People's" opinions. Those are financially worthless to them.
They are only interested in their corporate sponsorships. Money buys votes and the electorate are broke.
Money = speech
Corporations are people
Capitalism has reached its logical extreme.
reefraff
Active Member
Corporations are people. Just because you incorporate your business doesn't mean you give up your rights.
There are a couple things we could do to pull campaigns back into reality. Hear about all the 50K a plate fundraisers? What's up with that, the contribution limit is 2500.00 a person. No candidate should be allowed to accept or allow to be donated in their name any amount over the limit. Candidates should also not be allowed to give their campaign funds to another candidate. Also candidates shouldn't be allowed to accept donations from anyone who isn't a eligible voter in their election. These things we can do at the state level. Anything that needs to be done nationally we can forget about. The Supreme Court has ruled we can't do term limits but we should be able to regulate financial transactions in our states.
There are a couple things we could do to pull campaigns back into reality. Hear about all the 50K a plate fundraisers? What's up with that, the contribution limit is 2500.00 a person. No candidate should be allowed to accept or allow to be donated in their name any amount over the limit. Candidates should also not be allowed to give their campaign funds to another candidate. Also candidates shouldn't be allowed to accept donations from anyone who isn't a eligible voter in their election. These things we can do at the state level. Anything that needs to be done nationally we can forget about. The Supreme Court has ruled we can't do term limits but we should be able to regulate financial transactions in our states.
darthtang aw
Active Member
The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the latest triumphant deal includes $2 billion of cuts for fiscal year 2013. Wow! That's what the Government of the United States borrows every 10 hours and 38 minutes. Spending two months negotiating 10 hours of savings is like driving to a supermarket three states away to save a nickel on your grocery bill.
reefraff
Active Member
I personally think we are beyond the point of no return. You have such a large welfare class voting in their own interest I don't think we can turn this mess around. At some point interest rates will rise and when they do the results will be catastrophic for the government given the amount we borrow to sustain this garbage. I am trying to talk the wife into getting out of here and getting ag land somewhere. It may not happen in my lifetime but there is coming the day when you will need to be able to depend on your own land to supply most of your food.
ironeagle2006
Active Member
There is a Way to save this nation however those in Power will not even Consider it. Called Get rid of Welfare as we Know it. NO CASH Payments to anyone that is a 2nd or 3rd Generation Person GETTING WELFARE. Also no MORE MONEY for More KIDS right now People get More Money for the More Kids they pop Out. Next Mandatory Drug Testing for all People that Get any Assistance from the Government if you can afford to get Drugs and Booze you can afford to EAT and find a place to live ON YOUR OWN. Next all people in Politics that have been in Office for more than 20 Years your GONE Retired with NO PENSIONS and you can not Run for anymore Offices that PAY YOU. After 20 Years if you have not gotten your Ideas Passed your just Collecting your Paycheck and not doing your Job.
Next Health Care Reform True Reform would Start with Malpractice Reform. I am sick of Seeing Lawyers advertisements all the time saying if you took this drug or this one or had this Product used we can sue the Doctors and the People that make that Product. Hey it is called you signed the release form for the Surgery and if you Read the FREAKING Med Sheet your given with the Bottle when you Fill the Prescription you would know what to look out for in Side Effects and When to Call your Doctor.
Lastly how to attack the Budget Problem Simple First pass a Pair of Flat Taxes Below 350K Single and 500K Married you pay in 10% of your Income with no Loopholes allowed. Above those Figures it goes up to 15% again with Zero Loopholes for all income that includes Investments Dividends and Capital Gains. To get Business going in this Country First Lower the Tax Rate to 10% for the First 10 Million and 15% for over that with Zero Loopholes for Overseas Ops either. Next Reduce the Regulations in this Nation. When it costs about 4 Trillion a Year for all the Businesses in this Nation to Comply with all the Regs the Government Spits out there is a Problem.
Then to fix the Budget you take the Amount of revenue that came in the Year Before Budget 95% of it then and use the REST to start Paying off the Debt this nation has built up. Yes it would require Massive Cuts in Popular Programs in this Nation However it could and NEEDS to be done.
Next Health Care Reform True Reform would Start with Malpractice Reform. I am sick of Seeing Lawyers advertisements all the time saying if you took this drug or this one or had this Product used we can sue the Doctors and the People that make that Product. Hey it is called you signed the release form for the Surgery and if you Read the FREAKING Med Sheet your given with the Bottle when you Fill the Prescription you would know what to look out for in Side Effects and When to Call your Doctor.
Lastly how to attack the Budget Problem Simple First pass a Pair of Flat Taxes Below 350K Single and 500K Married you pay in 10% of your Income with no Loopholes allowed. Above those Figures it goes up to 15% again with Zero Loopholes for all income that includes Investments Dividends and Capital Gains. To get Business going in this Country First Lower the Tax Rate to 10% for the First 10 Million and 15% for over that with Zero Loopholes for Overseas Ops either. Next Reduce the Regulations in this Nation. When it costs about 4 Trillion a Year for all the Businesses in this Nation to Comply with all the Regs the Government Spits out there is a Problem.
Then to fix the Budget you take the Amount of revenue that came in the Year Before Budget 95% of it then and use the REST to start Paying off the Debt this nation has built up. Yes it would require Massive Cuts in Popular Programs in this Nation However it could and NEEDS to be done.