Flame Angel Develops Ich Overnight? Help Please!

[yannifish]

Is it possible for a fish to develop ich overnight?
I just purchased the fish yesterday, and it looked fine last night, exceptionally healthy, and eating well at the store.
This morning it still seems fine, it still looks perfectly fine behavior wise, it just has white spots on it.
So, what should be my course of action? Should I start hypo, or try medication? I have an ich medication, but its old, will this matter? I can't remember what is in it, I'll find out tonight.
I'll get pics tonight too.

 

[spanko]

Yes it is possible for the parasite to show up on a fish overnight. To me it would seem that it had to be in your system firs though. Hope someone with more knowledge (**cough**Beth**cough**) shows up here though.
I think you will need to give us some more information though.
How old is the tank?
What else is in there critter wise?
Has the tank ever had Ich before?
It may be possible that these are sand grains stuck to the fishes slime coat after being in the tank all night and surviving a four hour ride home.
How did you acclimate it?

 

[yannifish]

It's in a QT tank, without any other fish. The tank has been set up for a week, with filter floss from my DT sump that had been in there for 3 months to provide biological filtration. So I guess on, the tank hasn't had ich before.
Drip acclimated it for three hours.
I'll look more carefully after I get home, I didn't have a lot of time this morning.
There is no sand in the tank, but I'll see if it was just stuff on the bottom of the tank.
The fish looked healthy this morning, breathing normally, and swimming actively. Very aware of what was around it.
I'll keep you updated and try and get pics when I get home.

 

[yannifish]

Okay, I plan on starting hypo tonight. At least I'll have the weekend to monitor.
I have a pH buffer, should I use that or baking soda to keep the pH up?
The QT is 10 gallons, so any suggestions as to how much water I should replace to lower the salinity? Beth's thread says I want to do it over 48 hours down to 1.009, but I don't have any idea how much water I should replace with each change to accomplish that.

 

[kiefers]

Ya... everyones fav. ich!! IMO even if you do medicate now in QT you are going to still have the parasite in your DT unless you leave the DT EMPTY for atleast 6 to 8 weeks. That means no fish. However, I believe once you have the parasite in your tank your always going to have it. You should boost the angels immune system with garlic. I don't know what you feed your little one but if you use mysid, get a clove of garlic mash it to get some of the oils to seep and mix your food in that. (just my experience) The angel should recover within a week. Do you have a cleaner (skunk) shrimp? HIGHLY recommended!! I personally would stay away from medicating the fish as from what I have read does more damage than good.
What is your ph now? Do you by any chance use Prime. I would look into this product. Firm believer. Our flame is doing very well in hypo, he is a fighter. (1.008)

 

[yannifish]

How would the DT have ich? The QT is a completely new set up, with new water, just filter media from the DT. The clowns have been highly stressed, going through several moves, and they didn't develop ich. So I don't know how the DT can have ich.
Lol, I just got the angel yesterday, and haven't fed it anything yet. But I'll stop at the pet store and see if they have any vitamin supplements (any recommendations?), and soak the food (I'll probably use mysis today) in garlic.
I don't have a cleaner shrimp in either tank, I plan to get one, but not in the QT.

 

[kiefers]

I had to totally rewrite this.... dang. I'm glad you QT'd this little one. Personally....... I would not medicate it does more bad than good. I don't know what you feed your fish but use a clove of garlic (JMO) mash it so some of the oils come out and mix the whole thing in with your mysid. It's been my experience that you must increase the critters immune system so he can fight it off until hypo is complete. Do you use Prime? Good stuff for the fishes slime coat. And before you put the fish in your DT I would invest in a skunk cleaner shrimp. just a thought. Good luck.

 

[yannifish]

But how do I put the cleaner shrimp in the DT without the possibility of introducing ich into it? Does the drip acclimation process provide that, as store water doesn't go into the DT? I do want a cleaner shrimp though (preferably two).
I'll do the garlic tonight, and start hypo. I can't see how the DT would have ich.
Oh, and I quarantine everything.

 

[spanko]

From Terry D. Bartelme
"Fish often succumb to cryptocaryonosis despite the presence of biological cleaners such as cleaner shrimp or cleaner wrasse. While cleaners will exhibit their instinctual "cleaning" behaviors, do not assume that they eat trophonts, or eat them in sufficient numbers to affect a cure. "Cleaner" species of fish are also subject to infection."

 

[yannifish]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight#post_3369790
From Terry D. Bartelme
"Fish often succumb to cryptocaryonosis despite the presence of biological cleaners such as cleaner shrimp or cleaner wrasse. While cleaners will exhibit their instinctual "cleaning" behaviors, do not assume that they eat trophonts, or eat them in sufficient numbers to affect a cure. "Cleaner" species of fish are also subject to infection."
Yes, I understand that. Thanks though. I just want a cleaner shrimp.

 

[yannifish]

Okay, the spots are gone.
Any idea as to what my course of action should be? I mean, The fish is swimming around, picking at the PVC and stuff, looking perfectly happy. No sign of the dots that were on it this morning.
They were super tiny, and weren't quite white, more off white. And they were raises, and rather granular looking.
Any idea? I'm going to try and feed it to see if it eats.

 

[spanko]

I would say leave it alone for today and check it out again tomorrow. I would not make any drastic attempts at treating for Ich right now.
Let's see what others say though.

 

[yannifish]

I honestly didn't look quite like ich, but that's the closest thing I could think of appearance wise.
It just gobbled down some mysis, so it's feeding fine. I think I'm going to put a small piece of rock from the DT in there so it has some algae to pick at.

 

[spanko]

If you do that don't put the rock back in the display after. If all you want to do is give it some algae to eat get some algae sheets. Leave the QT without rock IMO.

 

[yannifish]

Yeah, I have algae sheets for it. I just thought it might prefer to have a rock.
I don't like this rock anyway. It's tiny, and I don't have anywhere to put it. So I wouldn't mind losing it.

 

[florida joe]

Yes it is possible for a fish to show signs of ick overnight. Any water transfer from the transport water to your QT could have introduced the parasite in its swimming stage
On the idea that if you have had ick introduced into your DT it will always be there. Of course this can be true BUT only if you keep a host in the tank. The life cycle of ick has been scientifically established with in this cycle the parasite MUST find a host or the cycle is broken. Remove all available hosts keep you tank fallow for the prescribed time frame and you brake the life cycle and you have NO ick in your tank. One must remember that this applies to the ick parishes and may not be true to any look a like parasites

 

[yannifish]

I really don't think my DT has ich. I could be completely wrong, but when my clowns had ich, I put them in a QT and put them through hypo (with success) and the DT was empty for eight weeks. After that, the clowns went through two eight hours, which were very strenuous, and they showed no signs of ich.
I think if it is ich that it is just in the QT.
I just stuck my hand in the water to adjust a power head, and also scraped a finger along the bottom (bare) of the tank. I found there are some small pieces of something, possibly sand, on the bottom of the tank, which look just like what were on the fish this morning.
Is it even remotely possible these are the cysts from the trophont stage of the ich? I read that the parasites feed on the host for around a week before detaching, so it seems unlikely, butI figured I'd better ask anyway.
I guess I'll let him be for now, and see how he's doing in the morning. If he's covered in spots in the morning again, we'll know its not ich.

 

[kiefers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/384607/flame-angel-develops-ich-overnight#post_3369858
Yes it is possible for a fish to show signs of ick overnight. Any water transfer from the transport water to your QT could have introduced the parasite in its swimming stage
On the idea that if you have had ick introduced into your DT it will always be there. Of course this can be true BUT only if you keep a host in the tank. The life cycle of ick has been scientifically established with in this cycle the parasite MUST find a host or the cycle is broken. Remove all available hosts keep you tank fallow for the prescribed time frame and you brake the life cycle and you have NO ick in your tank. One must remember that this applies to the ick parishes and may not be true to any look a like parasites
hahaha.... post number 5 was supposed to be deleted. Hence the rewrite. Sorry guys. But yes Joe is right.... the DT has to be free from all fishies so the ich can be illiminated. Sorry..... Wow I sound rather duh!

 

[yannifish]

The DT shouldn't have ich! This is a new fish! Hasn't been in the DT!
The spots are back. I think I'll start hypo tomorrow. I hope it survives the night.
Although it isn't badly infected yet.
What do you guys think? Should I do hypo just to be safe?

 

[yannifish]

Okay, here is my description of the spots.
There aren't tons, maybe twenty per side. They are on both the skin and the fins. They are tiny, smaller than a grain of sand, and slighty off white. They were visible this morning, not visible when I got home, and visible again now.
The fish doesn't appear to be breathing hard, and isn't scratching at all. It seems unaffected other than the white spots.
Unless someone tells me otherwise, I am starting hypo tomorrow.