Gay Marriage, Abortion and other moral issue?

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
Being a thug implies you are demonstrating a behavior towards OTHER people. Crime & Thug go hand in hand. Violence, theft, vadalism, and general disregard for others along with the law is part of the overall persona for someone to be deemed "Thug"
It is not discrimination against someone self propmoting themself as a thug. It is common sense. I would toss a thug out of my store if behaving in any such manner. Being a Thug IS clearly a personal choise made by the individual that DOES affect other's property, and personal saftey. There is not the slightest comparison between being homosexual, and advertizing with pride that you ARE by definition a criminal element and to be treated as such.
Thug has nothing at all to do with skin color.
Cholo, Thug, Homey, who cares what you want to call it, its a behavior pattern and a personal choice that DOES effect others and SHOULD be frowned upon just out of unity in nation.
Anyone who wants to get tattoo's on thier neck, wear Dikies workwear and not have a job thats fine by me. They start advertizing they are

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by threatening or trying to be physically intimidating to others for no purpose other than bravado I have issue. Nothing to do with thier orientation or thier purpose.
I dont care who is holding them back in life, or what the underlying issue is that leads people to act this way... I just deal with them accordingly, Case by case basis naturally. Dress how you like, get tattoos anywhere and as much as you like. I am talking about attitude and being a productive part of society. For a Thug thats impossible.
There is no comparison between someone of homosexual persuasion and a "Thug"
-RFB

all this thugs.. should we stereotype them just because some people like to dress that way and are NOT actuals cholos/gangbangers? they might not be ganstars but they do give a BAD vibe although i'm not really trying to compare wannabe gansters with real gansters. but they look the same don't they? maybe its the lifestyle they chose to live.. maybe it's apocalyptic revelations..

 

[reefforbrains]

Dress code is optional as mentioned above. Its the behavior that fits the profile to deem someone as Thug/gangbanger.
Funny thing about stereotypes.......Its the unpopular thing to say it out loud but they are usually TRUE.
Looks like a duck and you take a second look, if it starts walking like a duck you watch closer, then when it quacks is when you can safely call it a Gangbanger.

 

[aztec reef]

actually its, if it quacks like a duck and it looks like a duck (or visa-versa), you best believe its a duck, otherwise it's advertising being a duck ..and can get mistaking...

 

[reefforbrains]

excellent, so we agree .......

 

[aztec reef]

you agree on my previous points, then i'll agree with yours..it's that simple. NOT!! yeah we do agree on the dress code part..

 

[reefforbrains]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
ONE question: what percentage of gay couples are Christians?
How is this relevant? Christian vrs Buddist vrs Pagan. Religion does not define the laws for the masses. The Bible is only relevant if you believe in God. Many do not.
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
How will same --- dillute traditional marriages? Let's see here, if we Legalized same --- marriage few decades ago. this would be a totally different World. (i probably wouldn't be here)you know what i would be considered right now? an Outkast, Actually i'm partially an Outkast,since i'm a minority( if you can call it that nowdays.).
But then if we are comparing several decades ago, how would it be a different world now by legalizing same --- marrage? Perhaps it would be less Gay marrage since not all, but certainly some portion of the Gay/Bi or whatever you want to call it is acting out and rebellious. Who is to say?
But why dont we use the same argument about women wearing pants? just 60-70 years ago it was socially unacceptable and would render the person an outcast.
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
If you don't go by any laws. what kind of role model is that ,who is your role model ? do you have one?
why are you so rightchess? who agree's on your laws?
I go by the laws of my country, I am a role model to anyone around me, whether they agree or disagree, love or hate me. I am a living walking talking example through everything I do.
I have no role models as an adult. Partially because I am cynical in nature.
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
how does decency compare salsa to homosexuallity? can you discuss making salsa vs. homosexuallity at church? maybe at school nowdays but Not 15-20years ago..
Decency applies to ANYTHING where you are forcing your will onto others against thier will when thier independant actions have no bearing or relevance to your own.
Salsa is a prime example. I personally like extremly spicy salsa and think mild salsa is unpalatable. But I do NOT withhold hiring a new employee or refuse to shake the hand of a person that does enjoy it.
But then here the phrase "in Church" comes out again. While I certainly would not personally go inside a Church just for sake of respect to those that believe it is Holy to them. I hold fast that it is just a building like any other.
There is a time and place for all topics and particular venues would most likley not like what they are hearing but after you remove God from the argument along with any eggshells that may be avoided out of respect for someone elses religious beliefs, Then salsa vrs Homosexuality is a perfectly sincere conversation to have anywhere with anyone of the age and ablity to proccess and respond.
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
if being anti-gay makes me ignorant so be it..it's your opinion. It all comes down to how you were brought up i guess and how much you're accustom to tolerate..It's all Revelations..
By definition ignorance is the state of being uninformed. Problems happen with those acting upon preconcieved notions or second hand false facts.
Revelations is again irrelevant to those that do not belive in the bible any more than an issue of car and driver for spiritual guidance. It's religious signifigance is to be respected for YOUR sake but the actual book or its readings have no merit beyond the followers to an outsider or to someone of a different belief structure.
I do not argue with you purley to poke at you, we clearly disagree and thats fine. I just would like you to at least try to see the topic without Religious overtones.
The same people that say GOD gives them laws to live by, NOT the country.....well those are the same people that disregaurd others value or importance purley because they are not from the same cloth. This very virtue in most religious fanatics is HOW terrorism and wars start in the first place. It would be silly to expect everyone to agree on everything, but to force or scorn someone else because of a desicion they make with thier own life that has NOTHING to do with your own does smack of rundeness all the way around.
Can you at very least see this last point? Please no more punchlines, if you want I can just leave it be, but I am very curious how you continue to be so obstinant with your views being best for everyone weather they like it or not.
-RFB

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Pontius
there are many man/woman couples in this country that cannot procreate. so you're saying they should not be able to have children either? I haven't known a huge number of gay people, but I've known a few gay couples who would make MUCH better parents that many of the straight couples I see who have several children of their own.
someone being gay or being married doesn't affect you or me in least, so it should not be any of our business.
why is it different, because YOU happen to be black? how's that make it different? can you change the way you are? is there any evidence that shows a homosexual person can change the way they are? if not, then explain how it's different. why, because they can hide in a closet and be miserable for the entirety of their lives while you can't hide the color of your skin? if that's the logic, then it's dumb logic.
1 thing I hate on here is when you are quoted and your words are misquoted with out someone taking the whole context of the statement. I am not going to re-write my previous statements but your response to my statement is not what I was saying and I'll just leave it at that. Now, is someone is sterile has nothing to do with this topic. Biologically not being able to procreate is not the same thing as physically not being able to procreate. Many of these arguements on here are silly and people use unrelated topics to try to prove their points...
Just like being black in this country is not the same as being gay. I understand and acknowledge that gays are targets of crimes, that gays are sometimes discriminated against, that gays aren't allowed to marry...etc... Regardless of my race any rational, educated person can see that though there are some general similarites... these two things are different. Being able to hide something and something that you publicly have to deal with every moment of that day is different. Your not just black behind closed doors...or hispanic, or whatever.But my point is that gays were never seen as in-human or property. Gays never had to fight for the right of being a citizen or to be FREE. So you can say they are the same when we have the "Gay pool", "the gay restaurant" "the gay only entrance vs. the straight entrance", "the gay water fountain" etc....I not gonna beat this issue, there is just simply a difference.
Gay marriage affects all of us, because it changes what we accept as a society. I just feel like we as americans are willing to accept anything now as long as it doesn't phyically hurt someone. Where have our morals and values gone? We accept

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and curse words on regualar tv now, we accept our children behaving badly and without respect, we get married to get divorced and etc... Our society is breaking down and tomorrow it will be another similar issue that will continue to tear at our moral fiber. Today, there is no right or wrong, just if it feels good, makes you feel better about your situation, and doesn't hurt anyone right then..then its okay.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Many of these arguements on here are silly and people use unrelated topics to try to prove their points...
like arguing that marriage hinges on the biological ability to procreate?
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Your not just black behind closed doors...or hispanic, or whatever.But my point is that gays were never seen as in-human or property. Gays never had to fight for the right of being a citizen or to be FREE. So you can say they are the same when we have the "Gay pool", "the gay restaurant" "the gay only entrance vs. the straight entrance", "the gay water fountain"
so gay people should live in the closet and be ashamed of who they are? great thinking. and as we've already discussed in previous topics, you as a 27 year old never had to fight against the black/white restaurants, entrances, water fountains, so please give up the "I've had it so much worse than everybody else because I'm black" act.
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Gay marriage affects all of us, because it changes what we accept as a society.
the only way gay marriage affects you is if you are gay or if you are so homophobic that you can't stand to think about it rationally.

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by Pontius
like arguing that marriage hinges on the biological ability to procreate?
so gay people should live in the closet and be ashamed of who they are? great thinking. and as we've already discussed in previous topics, you as a 27 year old never had to fight against the black/white restaurants, entrances, water fountains, so please give up the "I've had it so much worse than everybody else because I'm black" act.
the only way gay marriage affects you is if you are gay or if you are so homophobic that you can't stand to think about it rationally.
well said pontius...tobin

 

[rylan1]

like arguing that marriage hinges on the biological ability to procreate?

What are you reading, it just amazes me sometimes how people can twist and turn words to fit their arguement...in the first part of your quote I said what I said because people want to make comparissons to things that are not related. Like comparring being sterile vs a man not being able to get pregnant.

so gay people should live in the closet and be ashamed of who they are? great thinking. and as we've already discussed in previous topics, you as a 27 year old never had to fight against the black/white restaurants, entrances, water fountains, so please give up the "I've had it so much worse than everybody else because I'm black" act.

Secondly, I am not using myself or my own experiences to make this point either. It seems like you take such an offense to anyone saying that racism has affected their life...However, people on this post and others have tried to say that homosexuals have/are facing the same plight as african americans in their attempt to gain the legal right to marry, which is simply not the case.
These are 2 completely different issiues and should not be used to help in aiding this cause...

the only way gay marriage affects you is if you are gay or if you are so homophobic that you can't stand to think about it rationally.

And being homophobic has nothing to do with this because I am not, this would set a precident that would open the doors to other issues regarding marriage so yes it does affect society. Of course there are certain laws in this country that don't directly affect you or I personally, however, they do affect society as a whole.

 

[pontius]

they are not allowed to marry because of discrimination, period. whether or not you see it as a sin, it's THEIR sin not YOUR sin. like the guy said earlier in the thread, he owns businesses, contributes to society and pays probably more taxes than anyone on this board. why should he not benefit from the breaks that married people get? he obviously has someone that he loves, so how does that affect you?
without bringing religion into the argument, state all these effects that gay marriage would have on society?

 

[jennythebugg]

Originally Posted by Pontius
they are not allowed to marry because of discrimination, period. whether or not you see it as a sin, it's THEIR sin not YOUR sin. like the guy said earlier in the thread, he owns businesses, contributes to society and pays probably more taxes than anyone on this board. why should he not benefit from the breaks that married people get? he obviously has someone that he loves, so how does that affect you?
without bringing religion into the argument, state all these effects that gay marriage would have on society?

very well put pontius ,

I always wanted to see if legalized gay marriage would be like the y2k thing and planes would fall from the sky and all the computers would crash simultaniously

 

[reefreak29]

without bringing religion into the argument, state all these effects that gay marriage would have on society?
its very confussing to children , because it is not natural . this would have great effects on our future period

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Pontius
they are not allowed to marry because of discrimination, period. whether or not you see it as a sin, it's THEIR sin not YOUR sin. like the guy said earlier in the thread, he owns businesses, contributes to society and pays probably more taxes than anyone on this board. why should he not benefit from the breaks that married people get? he obviously has someone that he loves, so how does that affect you?
without bringing religion into the argument, state all these effects that gay marriage would have on society?
To discriminate is to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit.
So when I first look at this I'd say okay maybe this is discrimination, however when I look at the word "merit" I come to my current conclusion on this issue.
Merit is the inherent rights and wrongs of a matter unobscured by procedural details, technicalities, personal feelings, etc..
So I take that and what my Bible says....marriage is b/t a man and a woman. If you believe in God then this should be clear. If you do not, you know that inherently men and men and women and women are not to have sexual relationships with one another,the body was not designed for it, There is a purpose for everything we have on earth, but not this.
So like I said earlier, I am not opposed to some sort of civil union that recongnizes these types of relationships and gives them legal status that will protect their rights. So again I am not totally against what he wants or gay people in general want...so don't depict me as a homophobe, I don't agree with the lifestyle, however; I take people for who they are and there is more to person than just their sexual orientation, and no one is better than another.

 

[michaeltx]

Originally Posted by reafreak29
its very confussing to children , because it is not natural . this would have great effects on our future period

That I have to disagree with. A CHILD thrives on Love and affection it doesnt matter where it comes from and weither or not its positive or negative it will shape their lives. Have you ever talked to someone being raised by a gay couple wether male or female. I have and you know what it didnt effect them in the ways people say it does
1) these kids are either gay or straight because of their genes not the couples
2) they love both their moms or dads and have a better outlook on life in general
3) for the most part only have problems because of the discrimination they go through because of who is raiseing and loveing them
* I am not saying they dont have problems but what hetero couples kids dont have problems?**
4) There are a lot of people that want to take these kids and place them in foster care which is even worse!! especially if they have bonded with the moms or dads.
Originally Posted by reefreak29
without bringing religion into the argument, state all these effects that gay marriage would have on society?
as far as what effect it will have on me if they legalize gay marriage at any time?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! it will not effect me and my better half it will not effect my life style or income levels. it will not effect my rights as a human being, and it will not effect my choices as a human being or my religous beleifs.
everyone is quick to point out why it shouldnt be legal and why it should but think of this
In the long run who is going to judge us you can read the bible and pick scripture to say its wrong. but whos job is it to judge them I surely am not going to judge anyone that has no choice in what and who they are because me personaly do not want to explain to any higher power that you or I beleive in why I treated someone differently because of who they are. especially when it doesnt effect me or my family!!!
mike

 

[scotts]

OK I know I have to go back a read more of this, but did anyone here know that 40 years ago it was illegal for black people and white people to marry? This was finally overturned on June 12, 1967. Now that is not that long ago? The reason I bring this up is that many of the same arguments being made then are being made now. Discrminination is discrimination.
Legalized unions to me sound the same as separate but equal. The only thing they were was separate.

 

[reefreak29]

OK I know I have to go back a read more of this, but did anyone here know that 40 years ago it was illegal for black people and white people to marry? This was finally overturned on June 12, 1967. Now that is not that long ago? The reason I bring this up is that many of the same arguments being made then are being made now. Discrminination is discrimination.
ok like i tried to say before its very normal for blacks and whites to marry , if u legalize gay marage it will eventually be normal. where does it stop then people should be able to marry whatever they want. siblings , multiple people. whatever dont you guys see that.

 

[reefreak29]

1) these kids are either gay or straight because of their genes not the couples
2) they love both their moms or dads and have a better outlook on life in general
well i dont think it would give them a "better " outlook on life , then i guess everyone should be raised by 2 moms or 2 dads so they can be better people.
I also dont believe its in the genes i think its a choice , and yes ive herd all the scientific bs on this

 

[reefreak29]

In the long run who is going to judge us you can read the bible and pick scripture to say its wrong. but whos job is it to judge them I surely am not going to judge anyone that has no choice in what and who they are because me personaly do not want to explain to any higher power that you or I beleive in why I treated someone differently because of who they are. especially when it doesnt effect me or my family!!!
im not judgeing anyone nor did i ever put down or call names. i really dont care if someone chooses to live that lifestyle or not, i just dont want it to be accepted. just like i wouldnt want it to be accepted for people to mary there siblings

 

[jennythebugg]

Originally Posted by MichaelTX
1) these kids are either gay or straight because of their genes not the couples
2) they love both their moms or dads and have a better outlook on life in general
well i dont think it would give them a "better " outlook on life , then i guess everyone should be raised by 2 moms or 2 dads so they can be better people.
I also dont believe its in the genes i think its a choice , and yes ive herd all the scientific bs on this
how about some personal bs on it . i was raised by a preacher and a secretary. both republican, both strict but loving parents when i was a small kid and a love scene would come on a movie or soap opera it wasnt just the men i admired ,and this is as young as 6 years old thats as far back as i can remember did i knowingly make a choice at 6 years old about being the way i am?, no it just happened so how can you say that from the age of 6-13 (when i found out what gay really was) that i was knowingly making a choice?