going to cycle with guppies
- Thread starter ecoman
- Start date
ophiura
Active Member
I have NO idea why you would cycle with a fish that if it survives, would reproduce like MAD and take up valuable space in the tank. Ditto with mollies. There is just such limited space in a saltwater tank...why put GUPPIES in it?
I don't particularly agree with cycling with live fish...at least the "traditional" cycling because I believe in hard cycles and it simply isn't necessary to expose live fish to that. I don't agree with the ethical comparison of a fish in a tank, compared to a fish in a tank with toxic water conditions. There is a clear difference there.
Cycling with fish can be done if you have a lot of established rock or you are paying very close attention to your water quality and then stock very very slowly. But many people cycling there tank are new to the hobby, do not watch water quality, overfeed, and overstock. It is not something I would suggest to a new hobbyist. I want people to succeed, and seeing their first fish die is often a way to get people depressed and demoralized.
I don't particularly agree with cycling with live fish...at least the "traditional" cycling because I believe in hard cycles and it simply isn't necessary to expose live fish to that. I don't agree with the ethical comparison of a fish in a tank, compared to a fish in a tank with toxic water conditions. There is a clear difference there.
Cycling with fish can be done if you have a lot of established rock or you are paying very close attention to your water quality and then stock very very slowly. But many people cycling there tank are new to the hobby, do not watch water quality, overfeed, and overstock. It is not something I would suggest to a new hobbyist. I want people to succeed, and seeing their first fish die is often a way to get people depressed and demoralized.
spanish dancer
Member
you know... This topic is not controversial unless you exploit it on a message board with hundreds of fish lovers reading... So why even bring it up!?!?!?!?
olga
Member
Ecoman. I am not sure about converting guppies to freshwater, but its already been answered here. Point is, why do you want to cycle it with freshwater fish or any hardy marine fish for that matter?
Yes, I am hypocrite, and cycled my tank with three freshwater black mollies (after I converted them to marine). The only reason, I done that, because I did not know any better and certainly did not read forums. I did not realised, that there is a way around it, as for example cycle with life rock or dead shrimp. I've read few books, and that what they advised there, (cycle with black mollies) so I followed. I was very lucky that all my mollies survived the torture. Unfortunately fish cant talk loud, to tell me if they were extremely delighted with experience.
The biggest problem was, is to give them back to LFS, as I wanted to free space and bioload for a proper marine fish, even though I did got attached to this guys. LFS did not wanted them even for free. (not saltwater version, lol).
I only managed to give them back to LFS last weekend, and only after I spent almost $600 there. (new lighting, frags, and various bits and bobs). I just hope owner of LFS did not flushed them down the toilet, after I left.
Get a stinky shrimp, LR and problems solved . OR are you just want to do experiment, as others ere pointed?
Yes, I am hypocrite, and cycled my tank with three freshwater black mollies (after I converted them to marine). The only reason, I done that, because I did not know any better and certainly did not read forums. I did not realised, that there is a way around it, as for example cycle with life rock or dead shrimp. I've read few books, and that what they advised there, (cycle with black mollies) so I followed. I was very lucky that all my mollies survived the torture. Unfortunately fish cant talk loud, to tell me if they were extremely delighted with experience.
The biggest problem was, is to give them back to LFS, as I wanted to free space and bioload for a proper marine fish, even though I did got attached to this guys. LFS did not wanted them even for free. (not saltwater version, lol).
I only managed to give them back to LFS last weekend, and only after I spent almost $600 there. (new lighting, frags, and various bits and bobs). I just hope owner of LFS did not flushed them down the toilet, after I left.
Get a stinky shrimp, LR and problems solved . OR are you just want to do experiment, as others ere pointed?
celacanthr
Active Member
I am not gonna go on a rampage and start talking about my feelings about cycling with a fish (if it is important to you to know how I feel about it, then do a search).
I would like to say that at least one of my friends has been able to breed guppies in saltwater, and she is able to keep em for the same amount of time as she is able to keep the freshwater ones.
There is also a reputable commercial site who has been breeding guppies (the colorful variety), in saltwater, and selling them as feeders.
Guppies are NOT saltwater, nor brackish water (at least not the salinity you would find in a brackish tank) in nature.
On the flipside, mollies are NOT saltwater, nor freshwater ( not in the salinities that we keep in our freshwater tanks), in nature. Yet they have been kept and bred in freshwater for many years.
Why are we name-calling? :notsure:
I would like to say that at least one of my friends has been able to breed guppies in saltwater, and she is able to keep em for the same amount of time as she is able to keep the freshwater ones.
There is also a reputable commercial site who has been breeding guppies (the colorful variety), in saltwater, and selling them as feeders.
Guppies are NOT saltwater, nor brackish water (at least not the salinity you would find in a brackish tank) in nature.
On the flipside, mollies are NOT saltwater, nor freshwater ( not in the salinities that we keep in our freshwater tanks), in nature. Yet they have been kept and bred in freshwater for many years.
Why are we name-calling? :notsure:
stanlalee
Active Member
I dont know how painful and cruel cycling a tank with fish is unless you cycle with too big, too much or too messy fish. I did it and do it everytime with a damsel or clown. still have the fish I cycled with a year later. a 1" fish isn't producing but so much waste and the biological filtration is establishing fairly quickly. that and I just dont believe a) tank has to have a large ammonia spike to cycle (the point is to grow and spread nitrifying bacteria not see how high you can make the ammonia spike before they establish themselves) and b) that tolerant fish are suffering. either they are symptom free and tolerant of tank conditions or they aren't and it shows. if they are eating, swimming and doing all the thing happy hardy fish do what makes one believe they are suffering, do they swim in a circle three times to signify they dont feel good?
On the flip side if anyone is so concerned with cruelty and life I wouldn't expect to see any live rock in their tank. What do you think happens to all the creatures and life that was there before ripping it out the ocean. and what do you think all the hitchhikers went thru while the rock was cycled (and I'm not talking about just worms and microscopic ones but the crabs, shrimps, stars, cucumbers, pods ect that often end up taking the ride. have you ever seen the water and smell from a newly stocked live rock curing tank) is it that we only give a rats butt about ornamental life or marine life as a whole. we dont HAVE TO use live rock, surface area can be had with base rock just like you dont HAVE TO cycle with fish. point is there is alot of things we do not in the animals best interest (like keeping them at all).
On the flip side if anyone is so concerned with cruelty and life I wouldn't expect to see any live rock in their tank. What do you think happens to all the creatures and life that was there before ripping it out the ocean. and what do you think all the hitchhikers went thru while the rock was cycled (and I'm not talking about just worms and microscopic ones but the crabs, shrimps, stars, cucumbers, pods ect that often end up taking the ride. have you ever seen the water and smell from a newly stocked live rock curing tank) is it that we only give a rats butt about ornamental life or marine life as a whole. we dont HAVE TO use live rock, surface area can be had with base rock just like you dont HAVE TO cycle with fish. point is there is alot of things we do not in the animals best interest (like keeping them at all).
spanish dancer
Member
Chances are, the live rock would have washed up on the shore of the ocean, and everything would have died on it anyways, unless it was the aquacultured variety...
stanlalee
Active Member
Originally Posted by Spanish Dancer
Chances are, the live rock would have washed up on the shore of the ocean, and everything would have died on it anyways, unless it was the aquacultured variety...
enlighten me on why it would probably wash a shore and everything will die? Liverock taken from Florida (when it was allowed) was taken no where near the shore and required divers to collect.
Chances are, the live rock would have washed up on the shore of the ocean, and everything would have died on it anyways, unless it was the aquacultured variety...
enlighten me on why it would probably wash a shore and everything will die? Liverock taken from Florida (when it was allowed) was taken no where near the shore and required divers to collect.
morales67
Member
Originally Posted by ruaround
I have read where mollies and PLECOS can be acclimated to saltwater...but not a guppy... all I have seen is that guppies can be in brackish water...
PLECOSTOMUSS CAN BE ACCLAMATED INTO SALT WATER!?!?!?!?!?!? !!!!!!!??? :scared:
:scared: :scared::scared: I had NO idea thats neat( I knew all those OTHER fw/
fish could be acclimated,,,,, put plecos?!?! :scared: no idea
)
I have read where mollies and PLECOS can be acclimated to saltwater...but not a guppy... all I have seen is that guppies can be in brackish water...
PLECOSTOMUSS CAN BE ACCLAMATED INTO SALT WATER!?!?!?!?!?!? !!!!!!!??? :scared:
spanish dancer
Member
Stanlalee,
That is exactly the reason why I said other than the aquacultured variety... the kind that is only permitted now in florida, where it is laid on the ocean floor from one to two years untill collected.
most live rock, including live rock collected in fiji, is collected from the shallow parts of the ocean near the shore where the rock collects the majority of its life after being broken off of the reefs... if not collected, the live rock simple just washes onto the shore.
That is exactly the reason why I said other than the aquacultured variety... the kind that is only permitted now in florida, where it is laid on the ocean floor from one to two years untill collected.
most live rock, including live rock collected in fiji, is collected from the shallow parts of the ocean near the shore where the rock collects the majority of its life after being broken off of the reefs... if not collected, the live rock simple just washes onto the shore.
boalgf
Member
I've been seeing this more often on these boards of late. Someone asks a question that they feel is legitimate and that they would like a real answer to. Then they are harassed and told "this is how you should do it and your way is idiocy." They are called trolls or liars or cruel. It really is getting out of hand. I feed dozens of feeder shrimp to my aggressive fish all the time and I don't feel like a murderer or like I'm inhumane. If he wants to cycle with live fish, it's his choice. Many fish make it through a cycle. He's going to do this, he wasn't asking if he should or not, just how. The threads on these boards have turned in to a battle of who can ridicule more. Remember, if you don't like what you are reading you don't have to make a post.
If you are going to cycle with a fish, try using some amquel+. It will make the Ammonia less harmful to the fish during cycle. Making it more liekly the fish will survive. I don't know much about acclimating fresh to saltwater but it appears many on this board do. Hopefully they can be polite enough to answer and not just force their opinions on others.
If you are going to cycle with a fish, try using some amquel+. It will make the Ammonia less harmful to the fish during cycle. Making it more liekly the fish will survive. I don't know much about acclimating fresh to saltwater but it appears many on this board do. Hopefully they can be polite enough to answer and not just force their opinions on others.
uberlink
Active Member
Not to jump too much into the fray, but don't you think it's a slightly different story given that he wants to cycle with live FRESHWATER fish? I know people cycle with damsels fairly often, and I gather there are some benefits to doing so--albeit not sufficient in my mind to outweight the pain for the fish. But I think a lot of the criticism here is pretty legit.
boalgf
Member
I think posting your opinions and dislikes of his ideas are fine. But the amount of judging and ridicule is unnecessary. Civility is the key to keeping these threads helpful. Also, I think experimenting is healthy to a degree and I'm interested to know if this works out for him. Fact is I'm glad he's using a guppy and not a chromis/damsel/ or clown fish.
seahorse11
Member
Ecoman, I got the same reaction and answers when I asked about cycling with damsels. I want live fish in my tank, not a piece of cocktail shrimp. My LFS told me for a 90 gallon I will need about 10 damsels so thats what I am going with. If your going to use guppies, I would acclimate them maybe for a couple of hours and thats it. Let me know if guppies work, they will be cheaper and easier to get rid of once the cycle is done.
ophiura
Active Member
Well, to be blunt, this is my take on the cycling with fish...If you don't have the patience to go a few weeks without fish in the tank, I do worry about long term success in the hobby. That may be harsh, but it is true and it is JMO. Patience is critical, and cycling the tank, IMO, is one of the first tests of that. Cycling with LR can be remarkably quick.
When I sold tanks, I had to make judgement calls pretty quickly on whether I thought the person was patient enough to succeed in this hobby. Maybe that wasn't my call you say, but from the ethical standpoint, I was not out to sell things just to make a buck. If they wanted fish in the tank for the big game and party, well there is the door my friend.
If you want to cycle with fish, then it can be done, but you have to pay close attention to water quality, etc. That is important. If you don't care about that, then again, I am concerned for your long term success in the hobby. That may sound harsh, but what can I say? If you are using established LR and are watching the cycle closely, doing water changes, etc...THAT is one thing and I have no issues with it. But if you are HARD cycling with fish (a traditional damsel method), then that is another. People should clarify what they are hoping to achieve here.
People here are very very passionate about fish and their care. They don't like to see fish going into toxic conditions unecessarily, and they may save you a buck in the process (LFS LIIIKKKKE the damselfish method...good money). Anyway, IMO that passion is deserving of some praise, 'cause you know what? That passion is what leads people to sit around and answer questions on a board.
Now, no one should be flamed either way, but it is worth keeping in mind that this is something people WILL get emotional about. If you ask this question, people will answer it, and give alternatives.
When I sold tanks, I had to make judgement calls pretty quickly on whether I thought the person was patient enough to succeed in this hobby. Maybe that wasn't my call you say, but from the ethical standpoint, I was not out to sell things just to make a buck. If they wanted fish in the tank for the big game and party, well there is the door my friend.
If you want to cycle with fish, then it can be done, but you have to pay close attention to water quality, etc. That is important. If you don't care about that, then again, I am concerned for your long term success in the hobby. That may sound harsh, but what can I say? If you are using established LR and are watching the cycle closely, doing water changes, etc...THAT is one thing and I have no issues with it. But if you are HARD cycling with fish (a traditional damsel method), then that is another. People should clarify what they are hoping to achieve here.
People here are very very passionate about fish and their care. They don't like to see fish going into toxic conditions unecessarily, and they may save you a buck in the process (LFS LIIIKKKKE the damselfish method...good money). Anyway, IMO that passion is deserving of some praise, 'cause you know what? That passion is what leads people to sit around and answer questions on a board.
Now, no one should be flamed either way, but it is worth keeping in mind that this is something people WILL get emotional about. If you ask this question, people will answer it, and give alternatives.