Government is the only thing we all belong too

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too#post_3491650
I actually could care less. I haven't turned either one on. It's all moot point and a waste of money. People complain about the economy and the deficit, and this useless POTUS election has spent over what, 4 BILLION in political campaigns for both candidates? What do we get for that money. NOTHING. The Presidential election is essentially inconsequential. If the Republicans don't win back the Senate, or the Democrats don't win back the House (which won't even happen this election), it won't matter which one of them is in office. Obama passed the majority of his legislation his first two years when the Democrats controlled both the House and Senate. When the Republicans won back the House in 2010, he hasn't had squat passed. The Republicans main goal in life the last two years was to make Obama a "one term President". They may actually succeed, but again if the Democrats maintain the Senate, Romney will be a lame duck President for at least his first two years. Reid and the Senate won't let one piece of legislation pass through the Senate no matter what it is. Romney promises to repeal Obamacare, and he doesn't have a snowballs chance in Hell accomplishing that feat. Gay marriages will still be relegated to the States, as well as abortion, because it would take a Constitutional Amendment to get either of those inked into federal law. So let them keep spinning their wheels until November. I don't even have a dog in that hunt because Texas Electoral Votes will go to Romney just like they've gone to every Republican candidate since Nixon.
So 0bama passed most of his policies in the first two years. How has that worked out for the economy? That was job one going in.
0bama shot himself in the foot going in. 3 days after taking office he held a meeting with congress to discuss issues. Eric Kantor showed up with some pretty interesting proposals such as lowering the 2 bottom tax rates and making unemployment benefits tax free. Certainly worthy of discussion. 0bama's response? "Elections have consequences, Eric, I won" Later he invited Paul Ryan to his white house speech. He seated Ryan in the front row and proceeded to slam him over his proposal. 0bama's lack of leadership experience was on grand display there. He spent two years putting down and bullying the Republicans, what would you expect?
Even so the Republicans have pushed through 32 bills, many with bipartisan support in the house and Reid is holding them up. If 0bama REALLY wanted to get something done he just has to tell Reid to take up some of those bills. Reid gets to amend them (assuming he has the votes) if he doesn't like all the aspects of the bills. Truth is it is 0bama who doesn't want to get anything done so he can run against a do nothing congress. Problem is Harry S. he aint
Romney has worked with the other side before. He at least has a chance of being able to get things done. Even if the Republicans just get close in the Senate there are a few Democrats there who aren't going to set back and let Reid pull the nonsense he is now so as long as Romney is reasonable he should be able to get something done.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006 http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too#post_3491665
For me the DNC convention consisted of ALOT of sleepy Time as I can not Stand them and can not afford to replace my TV Everynight so I went to BED. Sorry but Pat Quinn of IL was allowed to Speak at it. This IDIOT can not even work with the Democrats here in IL and he is From CHICAGO. He makes OBAMA look Competant and Quinn has Democratic Party Control of All Houses of Goverment and All Branches of the Excutive EXCEPT the Comptrollers and Treasuers Office. Notice a Pattern there we here in IL did not give the Chicago Machine the CHECKBOOK.
I watched a few of the speakers. Mrs. 0 did a pretty good job. Didn't listen to Clinton, a known perjurist LOL! I actually felt sorry for the Chairman when they took the vote to put God and Jerusalem back into the platform. He REALLY didn't want to claim the 2/3rd aye even though it was pre loaded in the telepromter.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491670
So 0bama passed most of his policies in the first two years. How has that worked out for the economy? That was job one going in.
0bama shot himself in the foot going in. 3 days after taking office he held a meeting with congress to discuss issues. Eric Kantor showed up with some pretty interesting proposals such as lowering the 2 bottom tax rates and making unemployment benefits tax free. Certainly worthy of discussion. 0bama's response? "Elections have consequences, Eric, I won" Later he invited Paul Ryan to his white house speech. He seated Ryan in the front row and proceeded to slam him over his proposal. 0bama's lack of leadership experience was on grand display there. He spent two years putting down and bullying the Republicans, what would you expect?
Even so the Republicans have pushed through 32 bills, many with bipartisan support in the house and Reid is holding them up. If 0bama REALLY wanted to get something done he just has to tell Reid to take up some of those bills. Reid gets to amend them (assuming he has the votes) if he doesn't like all the aspects of the bills. Truth is it is 0bama who doesn't want to get anything done so he can run against a do nothing congress. Problem is Harry S. he aint
Romney has worked with the other side before. He at least has a chance of being able to get things done. Even if the Republicans just get close in the Senate there are a few Democrats there who aren't going to set back and let Reid pull the nonsense he is now so as long as Romney is reasonable he should be able to get something done.
Those 32 bills had legislation that went totally against Obama's beliefs and platform. How many times do they need to be told continued tax cuts don't work. We've done that for 10 years now. Where are the benefits? Ryan's plan would stick a burden on the middle class, and shoot anyone 55 or under in the foot regarding Medicare. I don't trust Romney anymore than I trust Obama or anyone else in Washington. Romney talks in circles. He chastises Obamacare, but his Romneycare for the state of Massachsetts was almost identical. It forces people in that state to obtain some form of medical insurance. The Senate will still be locked. With the new voting requirement, all you'll see is a bunch of fillibusters and pandering. Some Democrats may be swayed to some of Romney's proposals, but they won't sit back and give them to him without some form of quid pro quo. You can cross party lines just so many times before your constiuents label you a "traitor" and vote you out the next election. That's how politics works these days.

 

[darthtang aw]

Those 32 bills had legislation that went totally against Obama's beliefs and platform.  How many times do they need to be told continued tax cuts don't work.  We've done that for 10 years now.  Where are the benefits?  Ryan's plan would stick a burden on the middle class, and shoot anyone 55 or under in the foot regarding Medicare.  I don't trust Romney anymore than I trust Obama or anyone else in Washington.  Romney talks in circles.  He chastises Obamacare, but his Romneycare for the state of Massachsetts was almost identical.  It forces people in that state to obtain some form of medical insurance.  The Senate will still be locked.  With the new voting requirement, all you'll see is a bunch of fillibusters and pandering.  Some Democrats may be swayed to some of Romney's proposals, but they won't sit back and give them to him without some form of quid pro quo.  You can cross party lines just so many times before your constiuents label you a "traitor" and vote you out the next election.  That's how politics works these days. 
so you are against tax cuts for the bottom two levels and against unemployment wages being tax free? You don't want to help the poor and those unable to find a job?
The number of actual jobs in this country have dropped BELOW 1981 levels. With a high population now than then, what is the true unemployment rate? Obama enacted everything he wanted his first two years. A person would expect something out of those policies.Instead we have fewer jobs than 30 years ago, Yeah, this guy has done awesome.
There are many differences between Romneycare and Obamacare.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491679
so you are against tax cuts for the bottom two levels and against unemployment wages being tax free? You don't want to help the poor and those unable to find a job?
The number of actual jobs in this country have dropped BELOW 1981 levels. With a high population now than then, what is the true unemployment rate? Obama enacted everything he wanted his first two years. A person would expect something out of those policies.Instead we have fewer jobs than 30 years ago, Yeah, this guy has done awesome.
There are many differences between Romneycare and Obamacare.
tax cuts haven't worked, period. Bush handed everyone $1000 and what did that get us. If you go with the Conservative logic, those 47% of taxpayers who are poor and unemployed don't pay taxes anyways. How do you lower a zero tax rate? Obama's enactments his first two years were reactionary to the deep economic recession we were in. They claim the recession ended in 2009, but all the indicators show differently. Everyone took his "Hope and Change" literally, and expected a miracle in 2 - 4 years, when everyone knows in reality it will take at least 8 - 10 years to turn things around and put a major dent in the deficit. There have benn many positive outcomes with his legislation, they're just not the same one's you were looking for. Again, you could've had McCain in that position, and the outcome would've been the same. Most likely it would've been worse because the Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate, and they didn't agree with his policies when he proposed them in Congress in the first place. So stick Romney in there. If the Senate is still controlled by the Democrats after the election, expect two or more years of the same stagnation.
There may be differences between the two, but the core values of Romneycare have very similar traits to Obamacare.

 

[darthtang aw]

tax cuts haven't worked, period.  Bush handed everyone $1000 and what did that get us.  If you go with the Conservative logic, those 47% of taxpayers who are poor and unemployed don't pay taxes anyways.  How do you lower a zero tax rate?  Obama's enactments his first two years were reactionary to the deep economic recession we were in.  They claim the recession ended in 2009, but all the indicators show differently.  Everyone took his "Hope and Change" literally, and expected a miracle in 2 - 4 years, when everyone knows in reality it will take at least 8 - 10 years to turn things around and put a major dent in the deficit.  There have benn many positive outcomes with his legislation, they're just not the same one's you were looking for.  Again, you could've had McCain in that position, and the outcome would've been the same.  Most likely it would've been worse because the Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate, and they didn't agree with his policies when he proposed them in Congress in the first place.  So stick Romney in there.  If the Senate is still controlled by the Democrats after the election, expect two or more years of the same stagnation.
There may be differences between the two, but the core values of Romneycare have very similar traits to Obamacare.
if tax cuts don't boost economies, Then how come Clinton lowered taxes after he raised them? And you were just praising his tax policy. How come after he lowered the taxes the economy took off? If raising taxes doesn't affect the economy, explain then what is happening in the EU. Entire economies crashed and burned.
Ofcourse the core values are the same...The difference is one takes from medicare...the difference is one is not funded, the difference is one was institutited after long discussion and debate....the difference is one isnt over 1000 pages of rules and regulations....the difference is actually pretty substantial if you take the time to look at them. You still haven't read the Obacare bill I am sure.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491695
if tax cuts don't boost economies, Then how come Clinton lowered taxes after he raised them? And you were just praising his tax policy. How come after he lowered the taxes the economy took off? If raising taxes doesn't affect the economy, explain then what is happening in the EU. Entire economies crashed and burned.
Ofcourse the core values are the same...The difference is one takes from medicare...the difference is one is not funded, the difference is one was institutited after long discussion and debate....the difference is one isnt over 1000 pages of rules and regulations....the difference is actually pretty substantial if you take the time to look at them. You still haven't read the Obacare bill I am sure.
Actually I have.read a majority of it. That's one of the reasons I support it. Your first fallacy is it doesn't directly take away from Medicare. It forces the hospitals and providers to reduce what they charge Medicare for their services.
"Most of the $500 billion in cuts aim at reducing payments to health care providers—hospitals, nursing homes, home health agencies, though not doctors. And about one quarter of the cuts target Medicare Advantage Plans to reduce the amount of government overpayments insurers have gotten. The government was paying more to these plans to provide benefits than it was paying to provide the same benefits under the traditional Medicare program. Medicare Advantage plans are a popular alternative to traditional Medigap policies because those overpayments have allowed insurers to offer cheap premiums and extra benefits like dental and vision care. But policy experts found these payments were unwarranted, wasted money, and jeopardized the finances of the Medicare trust fund that pays for hospital care"
http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/medicare_and_the_500_billion_b.php?page=all
You can't compare the EU collapse to the US economy. The two are completely different.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-06-02/raising-taxes-no-kiss-of-death-for-job-growth-history-shows.html#p1

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491674
Those 32 bills had legislation that went totally against Obama's beliefs and platform. How many times do they need to be told continued tax cuts don't work. We've done that for 10 years now. Where are the benefits? Ryan's plan would stick a burden on the middle class, and shoot anyone 55 or under in the foot regarding Medicare. I don't trust Romney anymore than I trust Obama or anyone else in Washington. Romney talks in circles. He chastises Obamacare, but his Romneycare for the state of Massachsetts was almost identical. It forces people in that state to obtain some form of medical insurance. The Senate will still be locked. With the new voting requirement, all you'll see is a bunch of fillibusters and pandering. Some Democrats may be swayed to some of Romney's proposals, but they won't sit back and give them to him without some form of quid pro quo. You can cross party lines just so many times before your constiuents label you a "traitor" and vote you out the next election. That's how politics works these days.
Some of those bills had bipartisan support. 0bama's party has control of the Senate and can amend them any way they see fit. That is how our system is designed to work but 0bama and Reid are obstructing them.

 

[darthtang aw]

Your first link is not from the monstrous bill. Guess I will have to dig out the bill again even though you read most of it. Did you even honestly read the second article or just the headline?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491693
tax cuts haven't worked, period. Bush handed everyone $1000 and what did that get us. If you go with the Conservative logic, those 47% of taxpayers who are poor and unemployed don't pay taxes anyways. How do you lower a zero tax rate? Obama's enactments his first two years were reactionary to the deep economic recession we were in. They claim the recession ended in 2009, but all the indicators show differently. Everyone took his "Hope and Change" literally, and expected a miracle in 2 - 4 years, when everyone knows in reality it will take at least 8 - 10 years to turn things around and put a major dent in the deficit. There have benn many positive outcomes with his legislation, they're just not the same one's you were looking for. Again, you could've had McCain in that position, and the outcome would've been the same. Most likely it would've been worse because the Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate, and they didn't agree with his policies when he proposed them in Congress in the first place. So stick Romney in there. If the Senate is still controlled by the Democrats after the election, expect two or more years of the same stagnation.
There may be differences between the two, but the core values of Romneycare have very similar traits to Obamacare.
Reagan deCartered us in 4 years. And he did it with double digit inflation and an average home mortgage rate that was around 14%, and no, that isn't a typo, 14%. I bought my first new car in 1980 and with a good factory finance deal I got because my parents co signed my interest rate was only 17.9%.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491693
tax cuts haven't worked, period. Bush handed everyone $1000 and what did that get us. If you go with the Conservative logic, those 47% of taxpayers who are poor and unemployed don't pay taxes anyways. How do you lower a zero tax rate? Obama's enactments his first two years were reactionary to the deep economic recession we were in. They claim the recession ended in 2009, but all the indicators show differently. Everyone took his "Hope and Change" literally, and expected a miracle in 2 - 4 years, when everyone knows in reality it will take at least 8 - 10 years to turn things around and put a major dent in the deficit. There have benn many positive outcomes with his legislation, they're just not the same one's you were looking for. Again, you could've had McCain in that position, and the outcome would've been the same. Most likely it would've been worse because the Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate, and they didn't agree with his policies when he proposed them in Congress in the first place. So stick Romney in there. If the Senate is still controlled by the Democrats after the election, expect two or more years of the same stagnation.
There may be differences between the two, but the core values of Romneycare have very similar traits to Obamacare.
Go all the way back to Kennedy and you'll find tax cuts will kick in economic development. Not a one time giveaway but the lowering of rates. Of course you can't just keep lowering the rates but they do work. The mistake that was made in the case of the Bush cuts is they should have been allowed to slowly rise as economic activity increased. Just sunsetting them after 10 years was a stupid move by both sides.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491696
Actually I have.read a majority of it. That's one of the reasons I support it. Your first fallacy is it doesn't directly take away from Medicare. It forces the hospitals and providers to reduce what they charge Medicare for their services.
"Most of the $500 billion in cuts aim at reducing payments to health care providers—hospitals, nursing homes, home health agencies, though not doctors. And about one quarter of the cuts target Medicare Advantage Plans to reduce the amount of government overpayments insurers have gotten. The government was paying more to these plans to provide benefits than it was paying to provide the same benefits under the traditional Medicare program. Medicare Advantage plans are a popular alternative to traditional Medigap policies because those overpayments have allowed insurers to offer cheap premiums and extra benefits like dental and vision care. But policy experts found these payments were unwarranted, wasted money, and jeopardized the finances of the Medicare trust fund that pays for hospital care"
http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/medicare_and_the_500_billion_b.php?page=all
You can't compare the EU collapse to the US economy. The two are completely different.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-06-02/raising-taxes-no-kiss-of-death-for-job-growth-history-shows.html#p1
It cuts medicare advantage accounts, that directly effects about 25% of all medicare patients. What do you suppose those Hospitals, Nursing homes and home health agencies will do with the rates they charge non medicare patients???

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491702
Your first link is not from the monstrous bill. Guess I will have to dig out the bill again even though you read most of it. Did you even honestly read the second article or just the headline?
LOL! I'd guess he didn't read the second one.

 

[darthtang aw]

It cuts medicare advantage accounts, that directly effects about 25% of all medicare patients. What do you suppose those Hospitals, Nursing homes and home health agencies will do with the rates they charge non medicare patients???
If the even accept medicare....How many places accept medicaid today in your area?

 

[theclemsonkid]

Here is why the American economy can't be fixed no matter what any president does. You ready? It'll be less than a single paragraph...
Here we go!
In China/India/SE Asia, etc, you can pay a worker, in a non-regulated factory, approximately $6 USD per DAY to make products.
There you have it! Your problem. If you know of any candidate or party who can fix that, you be sure and let me know and they'll have my vote ASAP!

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491712
Here is why the American economy can't be fixed no matter what any president does. You ready? It'll be less than a single paragraph...
Here we go!
In China/India/SE Asia, etc, you can pay a worker, in a non-regulated factory, approximately $6 USD per DAY to make products.
There you have it! Your problem. If you know of any candidate or party who can fix that, you be sure and let me know and they'll have my vote ASAP!
Nuke China Issue solved LOL!

 

[darthtang aw]

Here is why the American economy can't be fixed no matter what any president does.  You ready?  It'll be less than a single paragraph...
Here we go!
In China/India/SE Asia, etc, you can pay a worker, in a non-regulated factory, approximately $6 USD per DAY to make products. 
There you have it!  Your problem.  If you know of any candidate or party who can fix that, you be sure and let me know and they'll have my vote ASAP!
Chinese manufacturing wage is closer to 6 dollars an hour right now. Also, take a look at this story.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/new-economy/2012/0510/As-Chinese-wages-rise-US-manufacturers-head-back-home

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/20#post_3491715
Chinese manufacturing wage is closer to 6 dollars an hour right now. Also, take a look at this story.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/new-economy/2012/0510/As-Chinese-wages-rise-US-manufacturers-head-back-home
Then they will simply move to India. And if not India then other countries of SE Asia. And if not there, then it's only a matter of time until Africa becomes the next low cost manufacturing option...

 

[darthtang aw]

Then they will simply move to India.  And if not India then other countries of SE Asia.  And if not there, then it's only a matter of time until Africa becomes the next low cost manufacturing option...
Did you read the article?

 

[reefraff]

Ending the jihad against coal would be a good start to help manufacturing in this country. Cheap electricity is something we have all over the Chinese. I knew a guy about 5 years ago that had 2 factories there. He could only get electricity 3 days a week if everything went according to plan. As China increases their infrastructure manufacturing costs are rising there. We just have to be smart about our regulations here and we can compete with them. Sooner or later their people are going to want more than a bowl of rice and a BBQ rat as pay for a days work.