Government is the only thing we all belong too

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/40#post_3492023
As a business owner myself I do not have a close minded mundane view of what a business owners duties are. Nice assumption you make once again and are wrong on. You misquote facts and numbers regularly, but we are supposed to accept what you heard from " this guy". For all we know you heard wrong since this is the case with your other data regularly.
My facts sometime contradict yours simply due to the resources used to validate said facts. It's alsso based on interprtation on what's written. I can't count the number of times I've shown your "facts" were incorrect. Of course you just reply with the typical response of "whatever", or ignore the obvious altogether. Of course we all know you're infallible of making incorrect statements or supplying data that could be miscontrued as "bending the truth".

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/40#post_3492029
It was the percent of those filing who didn't owe any tax. This is from the Huffington post which I assume nobody thinks is cooking the numbers in favor of conservatives. They placed it at 46.4
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/28/46-percent-of-americans-e_n_886293.html
I think where this woman got confused in a paragraph in this piece which says the bottom 40% of earners owed no taxes over the last several years, not sure.
The number of people that filed that didn't owe any federal tax was about 40%. Someone has their number crossed. There is a difference between being a wage earner that owes no tax and being a tax filer that owes no tax.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/40#post_3492013
She lists 41 percent of filers not owing income taxes. Not sure where she got that number because last year it was listed at 49.5 and 47.5 the year before.
And social security and medicare shouldn't be considered. That is a defined benefit which is capped so of course so are the taxes you pay for them. Someone making 100 million a year will get exactly the same benefit as someone earning 110K.
Why shouldn't it be considered. It's a payroll deduction from the Federal Govt. that no one has a choice of not paying. Benefit? If the Republicans have their way, that money I've been putting into Medicare for the last 40 years will magically disappear before I'm old enough to receive that "benefit". I'm not holding my breath that my SS payments will be around. Fortunately, I don't have to depend on that money for my retirement, but I can't say the same for those 41% (or whichever number your "source" says it is) who will depend on those funds just to simply pay rent, utility bills, and put food on their tables.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/60#post_3492050
Why shouldn't it be considered. It's a payroll deduction from the Federal Govt. that no one has a choice of not paying. Benefit? If the Republicans have their way, that money I've been putting into Medicare for the last 40 years will magically disappear before I'm old enough to receive that "benefit". I'm not holding my breath that my SS payments will be around. Fortunately, I don't have to depend on that money for my retirement, but I can't say the same for those 41% (or whichever number your "source" says it is) who will depend on those funds just to simply pay rent, utility bills, and put food on their tables.
FICA taxes except for a small part that goes to Medicaid are not for the "common good". It's your personal payment towards your retirement and the more you pay the more you receive.
Under the current plan the system goes into bankruptcy in 2024. Better to get something than nothing.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/60#post_3492067
FICA taxes except for a small part that goes to Medicaid are not for the "common good". It's your personal payment towards your retirement and the more you pay the more you receive.
Under the current plan the system goes into bankruptcy in 2024. Better to get something than nothing.
Social Security was never meant to be a retirement fund in its original form. It was intially a disability insurance that eventually became a retirement fund. The money I've put into my "account" all these years have paid the benefits of my parents and all my elderly relatives (yours included). I would consider them by defintion as "the common good". The money we've invested in that program was spent years ago. The only way I'll ever recoup my "investment" is if they kept the program viable, and those younger than me were forced to continue sticking their hard-earned money into that fund.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/60#post_3492086
Social Security was never meant to be a retirement fund in its original form. It was intially a disability insurance that eventually became a retirement fund. The money I've put into my "account" all these years have paid the benefits of my parents and all my elderly relatives (yours included). I would consider them by defintion as "the common good". The money we've invested in that program was spent years ago. The only way I'll ever recoup my "investment" is if they kept the program viable, and those younger than me were forced to continue sticking their hard-earned money into that fund.
Intent doesn't matter. Fact is the more you pay the more you get,potentially. By the way, it was old age pension. Disability coverage wasn't added until years later.
As far as solvency of the program. Look at the voting patterns of people by age. Younger workers who really haven't paid enough into the system to have a dog in the hunt don't tend to vote. People 35 to 50 who stand to lose the most are a much larger bloc of voters with 55 and older being huge as well. DO YOU SERIOUSLY think the politicians are going to let the system collapse?
I done got my money back and am working on my wife's now LOL! In my immediate family I had 3 people who never lived long enough to collect a dime except the 255 death benefit. 2 others received benefits for around 3 years. My mom took the early retirement and collected the reduced benefit for 10 years. She didn't break even but got most of it back. On the other hand my dad was disabled when me and my sister were still teens. Not only did we collect he did too from the time he was 47 until he was 68. I guess it all averages out in the long run. My sister got benefits for about 10 years. I did about 5. That is why I always tell people who say they can beat the rate of return to check into what a disability insurance policy will cost them a year.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/60#post_3492111
Intent doesn't matter. Fact is the more you pay the more you get,potentially. By the way, it was old age pension. Disability coverage wasn't added until years later.
As far as solvency of the program. Look at the voting patterns of people by age. Younger workers who really haven't paid enough into the system to have a dog in the hunt don't tend to vote. People 35 to 50 who stand to lose the most are a much larger bloc of voters with 55 and older being huge as well. DO YOU SERIOUSLY think the politicians are going to let the system collapse?
I done got my money back and am working on my wife's now LOL! In my immediate family I had 3 people who never lived long enough to collect a dime except the 255 death benefit. 2 others received benefits for around 3 years. My mom took the early retirement and collected the reduced benefit for 10 years. She didn't break even but got most of it back. On the other hand my dad was disabled when me and my sister were still teens. Not only did we collect he did too from the time he was 47 until he was 68. I guess it all averages out in the long run. My sister got benefits for about 10 years. I did about 5. That is why I always tell people who say they can beat the rate of return to check into what a disability insurance policy will cost them a year.
I've already taught both my daughters to not even think about Social Security or Medicare in their futures. My 20 year old has already started her 401K, and my 17 year old will do the same once she starts working more than 20 hours/week part time. Social Security is not sustainable in its present condition. With more and more Baby Boomers retiring, there's more outgoing than incoming. As time progresses, you will have fewer people in the workforce simply based on birth rates. Back in the 40's and 50's, it wasn't uncommon for the average family to have 3 - 5 kids. Nowadays, 2 kids is pretty much the standard, with more single-kid families becoming the norm simply because people can't afford them.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392876/government-is-the-only-thing-we-all-belong-too/60#post_3492114
I've already taught both my daughters to not even think about Social Security or Medicare in their futures. My 20 year old has already started her 401K, and my 17 year old will do the same once she starts working more than 20 hours/week part time. Social Security is not sustainable in its present condition. With more and more Baby Boomers retiring, there's more outgoing than incoming. As time progresses, you will have fewer people in the workforce simply based on birth rates. Back in the 40's and 50's, it wasn't uncommon for the average family to have 3 - 5 kids. Nowadays, 2 kids is pretty much the standard, with more single-kid families becoming the norm simply because people can't afford them.
Hell, my first career level job was in 1985 and I have been putting money aside since that time. Not a lot in some years but I tried. Social security was never meant to be the soul source of support in the first place. My Grandma worked most of her life and made pretty decent money as a seamstress. She did OK but that was mainly because my parents let her rent their house for what the house payment was, 76 bux a month. My dad had a job that included free rent in a house in the oil field he ran. Any way my Grandma did OK cause when my Grandpa died there was some life insurance so she had a modest amount of saving to cover unexpected expenses.
I keep telling my kid he needs to start setting money aside. He's in the military and with the impending cuts it's very unlikely he's going to be able to stay in for his 20.