Gun Control

[xcgx]

Also, if a person did hunt with a fully automatic weapon then yes that would be a slaughter, but it would also be against the fish and wildlife laws, which would make him out to be a criminal. A person charged with a felony, in which any persons charged with a gun related charge is a felony would no longer be able to own a gun period. Felons can't own guns..but a criminal will always have guns or access to guns. If you chose not to own a weapon then don't but please don't limit my ability to provide a safe and secure environment for me and my family (law abiding, reasonable and prudent people) and those who seek safety if for whatever reason.

 

[dennycrane]

I've never understood the, undoubtedly hollywood inspired, mentality that if you are confronted with a criminal who is brandishing a gun at you, that you would return the sentiment by drawing you weapon. Talk about making a bad situation worse. You've gone from somebody robbing you, who probably doesn't want to use the weapon, to someone robbing you who has to use his weapon. Sombody gets shot or killed over pocket money. Usually in that situation the person shot or killed isn't the criminal.

 

[xcgx]

yes, let's blame video games and tv and movies. What about the parents who let them watch and play these types of entertainment. I played war when I was a kid, listened to heavy metal, played video games, but my parents watched out for me and if I disobeyed them or acted out in class they tuned in a fixed it. I was held accountable and my parents were involved in my life. Those types of media are what they are, entertainment. The lack of accountability for others and ones self is the issue. The moral standard is fading away and whatever goes as long as it doesn't affect me is the way it is. Everything is gray, and it is no longer black and white, right or wrong, just don't get in the way of me. Sad.

 

[xcgx]

Does that for a cop as well, if a person who pulls out a gun on a police officer, does the officer pull out his gun or does he go for a doughnut and wave at the nice man? Take out the trash and shoot first. I re read your statement, you are correct. Somewhat. Cops usually get killed with their own weapon as well. But like I said train, then you will know when to use a weapon. A cop has to consider several things when making the decision to use deadly force. There has to be the following: A weapon, action, opportunity, and maximum effective range. The other peron has to have a weapon or unrestricted access to a weapon. The weapon has to be able to be within an effective range (if he has a knife and is 50 feet away, then that's not effective and not reasonable. Then there is action, like pointing the weapon at you. No one ever said that if a perons robs who with a gun, that you have to pull out a gun, but it is better to have and not need, then to need and be dead. Also, for me gun ownership is not a hobby and it's not that someone taught me respect for firearms. Guns are a means of self defense and my parents taught me to have respect for my fellow man.

 

[socal57che]

denny,
my remark was to point out that the ---- may not have occured had the person been armed and not neccessarily because she was armed but because she may have been armed. I didn't really expect you to believe that it was the reason for statistical outcomes. I read an interview a couple years ago where a Florida inmate said that he would watch for out of state license plates to choose a car to jack because Florida had the right to carry law. He knew the states that did not and chose his victims accordingly. Every car that had Fl. plates I'm sure did not have a weapon in the car, but he didn't want to take the chance and pick one that did. Your lobbyist friend is the biggest part of the problem with American politics today,IMO. I also disagree with lobbying by the NRA, but they must fight fire with fire to keep the balance.
As far as single action goes that's a matter of preference. I think maybe you have single action confused with single shot. My Walther 9mm can be had in single action only and still carries 15-16 rounds depending on the magazine.

 

[reefnut]

Originally Posted by xCGx
What about the parents who let them watch and play these types of entertainment.
Amen...

I do fully believe in self protection... be it a gun, baseball bat, whatever... I'll protect my family to the fullest of me ability and then a bit more. I would feel MUCH better if my daughters carried a gun after they get older... I will make sure both know how to use one but the rest will be up to them.
Truth be known, if someone broke into my house I would never make it to the safe and get it unlocked in time. They would have a bat mark across their forehead though.

 

[xcgx]

If choose not to use a gun, and are confronted with a person who chooses to harm you with a gun, then you are a target, a victim, and a statistic. The media will say, because of this crime all guns should be banned. If however, you are armed and you are trained, and you shoot (if situation dictates) then you are a survivor and you will be able to go home to your family. And knowing that you defended yourself is all that matters, because the media will never say kudos to you. I think I'm done....sorry. Back to the fishies.

 

[reefnut]

Originally Posted by xCGx
If choose not to use a gun, and are confronted with a person who chooses to harm you with a gun, then you are a target, a victim, and a statistic. The media will say, because of this crime all guns should be banned. If however, you are armed and you are trained, and you shoot (if situation dictates) then you are a survivor and you will be able to go home to your family. And knowing that you defended yourself is all that matters, because the media will never say kudos to you. I think I'm done....sorry. Back to the fishies.
I agree...

 

[dennycrane]

Originally Posted by socal57che
denny,
my remark was to point out that the ---- may not have occured had the person been armed and not neccessarily because she was armed but because she may have been armed. I didn't really expect you to believe that it was the reason for statistical outcomes. I read an interview a couple years ago where a Florida inmate said that he would watch for out of state license plates to choose a car to jack because Florida had the right to carry law. He knew the states that did not and chose his victims accordingly. Every car that had Fl. plates I'm sure did not have a weapon in the car, but he didn't want to take the chance and pick one that did. Your lobbyist friend is the biggest part of the problem with American politics today,IMO. I also disagree with lobbying by the NRA, but they must fight fire with fire to keep the balance.
As far as single action goes that's a matter of preference. I think maybe you have single action confused with single shot. My Walther 9mm can be had in single action only and still carries 15-16 rounds depending on the magazine.

Wow, that's interesting. Makes sense, though (I tend to underestimate the criminal mind sometimes). Yeah, my friend has had enough of the DC thing and has already made plans to leave his firm. I think he had a sort of naivity or about the whole process that has long since faded. Only at it for two years. I agree with you whole heartedly about the lobbying thing. As you probably have deduced, I am not that literate with guns. I grew up with my dad letting me shoot his 8 or 10 inch dirty harry pistol when I was 8 (he held it of course) and was and am still comfortable around guns. All I use today is a 20 gauge pump for dove hunting. I did mean single shot.
xCGx - Believe me I, by no means, was blaming or implicating blame with media. I only meant that sometimes you see people do things on tv and think "I could do that too". IMO, media can serve as an outlet for those who might be proned to commit crimes to vent in a video game (or movie), thus not going through with the crime. Heck, I'm 29 and occasionally play GTA III SA (which by the way has never prompted me to go jack someone and start a criminal empire). My point was, if someone has "the drop" on you, regardless of whether you are a cop or Joe Unlucky on the street, you don't draw your weapon unless you want to get shot. Police procedure dictates that you don't pull your weapon and instead talk the situation out.

 

[reefraff]

I don't have a problem with full autos or "real" 50 calibers being restricted, they are too dangerous for unskilled people to be able to just walk in and buy IMO. My problems is with how they restricted them. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't people understand? The government should have been forced to use an amendment to gain the authority to regulate firarms ownership. The horse is out of the barn now. I don't trust the gun grabers enough to take any chance on opening the door even a crack as far as an amendment now.
To those who say you don't need a simi or full auto weapon, You don't need a car that can go more than 75 miles an hour. Does that mean you shouldn't be allowed to own a car capable of doing twice that speed?

 

[xcgx]

I use the media alot, that's because we live in a fear based society. The media knows that any topic that appeals to our since of fear that we will tune in. Watch the news, listen to tv ads. All fear based. Cancer, weight gain, cholestoral, crime, evil sugar, video games, music, guns, global warming. We base our decisions out of emotion with some rationale thrown in to make it make sense. But when we get down to the facts, issues aren't what they appear. It's not that the above issues aren't of concern, but it's how the media presents these issues. I watch a commercial for a new type of medication and by the time the ad is over, I'm calling my doctor because I think I have a new condition. If it doesn't appeal to your sense of fear or --- then it's not going to be on the news or on a commercial (for the most part). Dang it, who started this thread.....

 

[xcgx]

Sorry to disagree with you, but since I'm in that field of work, if a gun is in play so is mine. We can talk while we point at each other. Someone can get "the drop" on you, and yes you might be SOL. That is why you must maintain situational awareness at all times, never get in the mind trap of routine. We used to negotiate with terrorists aboard flights and go along for the ride, but not anymore, take out the trash and talk later.

 

[dennycrane]

Originally Posted by xCGx
Sorry to disagree with you, but since I'm in that field of work, if a gun is in play so is mine. We can talk while we point at each other. Someone can get "the drop" on you, and yes you might be SOL. That is why you must maintain situational awareness at all times, never get in the mind trap of routine. We used to negotiate with terrorists aboard flights and go along for the ride, but not anymore, take out the trash and talk later.
I didn't think people actually talked like that. Well, you perspective is obviously different from mine, and I respect your opinions. I'm guessing you are a police officer and it is to your advantage to have that mind set, which is a good thing. So, fair enough.

 

[xcgx]

Real automatics required thousands of dollars, a tax stamp, and some other paper work and a lengthy wait on ATF approval. You are not just going to walk in and buy one. A real fifty cal, is also AT LEAST a thousand dollars. Most "unskilled" shooters would not fork over that type of cash, just to shoot paper. Most gun shops don't carry these types of rifle aeither because they sit on the shelves. People don't have an interest and there are very few places to shoot them. A fifty cal rifle is huge, weighs a ton, and the round (bullets) are very expensive. Even most gun enthusiast don't own one and criminals can't conceal them so they aren't popular weapons. Again fear based. A terrorist might use one, but even if our laws prohibited them, Ah it's a terrorist, he'll use one anyways.

 

[xcgx]

No sorry, I'm not a police officer. I am a civilian. It's hard to convey opinions over the internet. Communication is like 90 percent non verbal, so effective communication is sometimes difficult on the web. If anything I'm a survivor and you should think like that. A woman leaving a store at night should be aware of her surroundings, know what's right and what's out of place. I'm going home to my family if I can help it. I don't bother anyone, but I'm not going to be a victim. I think you should change you user id to "shark bate"....that was a joke. thanks for the difference of opinon.
You have to ask yourself why is gun ownership a constitutional right. What was it that made this issue so important? Was if for hunting? For protection against criminals and wildlife? Yes, but those things aren't that important. Most of us don't hunt now and we have the police so why do we need it in our constitution? I would venture to say it had something to do with our forefathers knowing the importance of liberty "freedom" and government. Our liberty is why America was founded, so that people could be free. The right to bear arms is so that the American people can keep the government in check and lever actions and single shot rifles for hunting won't do it. You say that's crazy. How many people do you know that hate Bush, don't trust Bush. Well he's the government, so that thought isn't that crazy after all.

 

[reefnut]

Have you guys and gals seen "Lord of War"?? I was quite amassed but not really that surprised. It is based on true events... worthy of watching if you really care about the illegal gun problems around the world.

 

[xcgx]

Originally Posted by DennyCrane
I didn't think people actually talked like that. Well, you perspective is obviously different from mine, and I respect your opinions. I'm guessing you are a police officer and it is to your advantage to have that mind set, which is a good thing. So, fair enough.

If I was a police officer than why should my perspective be different to yours? That would mean that I am a civilian. A police officer usually arrives at the scene of a crime after it has already been committed, vary rarely before. That means that the victim was already there. Civilians should be better prepared because they are the ones in the fight, not the cops. They might arrive while a crime is in progress, but if the individual was better prepared it might just as well be over. My dad was having chest pains one time, and my mom called 911 for an abulance. There was sub unit about two miles away. It took over 45 minutes for them to find my parents house. It felt like an eternity. Just a thought.

 

[dennycrane]

Originally Posted by ReefNut
Have you guys and gals seen "Lord of War"?? I was quite amassed but not really that surprised. It is based on true events... worthy of watching if you really care about the illegal gun problems around the world.
My wife made me rent that (I have a distinct aversion to Nick Cage) but I was very shocked as to how good that movie was. I agree, not shocking as to the end, even though I didn't see it coming.
xCGx - Sorry, you said you were in the field. I just assumed. Care to clarify? The Cops I know tend to be a little guarded and speak in terminology like "situational awareness".

 

[xcgx]

Prior service, was an officer, now in a related field. My point was, that a police officer does have a certain perspective, you are right. Point is that when you called them there was a reason. Are you a victim or a survivor? It's up to you what they will do when they get there. Crime scene containment and talking to witnesses or filling out paperwork and giving you a court date. Ok, don't want to beat the issue to death. I knew I shouldn't have clicked on this...if it's not the fish tank, it's the internet fish sites taking up all my time. thanks.

 

[phixer]

Thanks Denny
Keep em coming... but Im getting tired and have argued this subject many times and have no intention of convincing you otherwise...its a waste of energy. As mentioned eariler, "I didn't think people actually talked like that" If you do enough reasearch and gain the experience you realize that people do talk like that, most often because of an experience they had. There are figures everywhere, and as the old saying goes... "Figures dont lie but liars can figure", so what it really boils down to is; personal first hand experience. I have been fortunate enough to live in a variety of countries for more than two years at a time, was born and lived in Germany, Japan, Turkey, Haifa Israel, visited Australia 4X have lived in (not visited) Dubai, Saudi Arabia, UAE (Jebel Ali), Oman, Pakistan and Egypt for longer than a year at a time. I understand how it really is over there and not the view points of a paid lobbyist in an airconditioned office. Its hard to agree with you after witnessing first hand what the loss of the right to keep and bear arms has on a society. It significantly reduces the protection and freedoms of the people. Many of the folks who support the second ammendment do so because of first hand experience. Not an opinion based on a text book or what is lectured on a campus, but based on living in the real world. Fortunately we live in a coutry that allows us to express these beliefs. We have been given this right and is currently defended by brave Americans with guns.
"We live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns"
At least we have one thing in common, we both like marine aquariums.

Best regards
Phixer