Healthcare bill will pass the senate.

stevedave08

Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3197778
LOLOL. I don't expect Obama to do squat for me. I voted for the guy because the alternative would've wreaked havoc on this country far worse than what he's done so far. Give me a better choice, and I'll vote that individual in. Until then, I'm willing to give our current President a chance to do what he claimed he could do during all his useless campaign speeches. If it's the "same ole' status quo" I've seen in the last two Presidents, I'll vote against him. The difference between me and you is I'm willing to give the guy a shot at fixing the crap that was left him. You only the other hand, will never accept any accomplishments he does because the simple truth is you think Democrat=Evil=Socilaism. He could turn this country around 180, and you still wouldn't back him because it goes against your logic and your beliefs in that the only political system that is good, is Conservatism. I've seen that system in action. It didn't work out all that well did it? If it did, why are their so many Americans that are obviously against a Total 100% Conservative political system?
I agree with you on the abortion comments and birth control, but the part I wanted to respond to or agree with the most is this last paragraph here. You couldn't have hit the nail more on the head on my stance as to why I voted for Obama and am willing to give him a chance. No one in their right mind can say that a Mcain/Palin administration would have been much better off than the current one. Whoever was to be elected was going to be handed a pile of excrement anyway. In actuality they weren't handed the excrement. They were made to stand in front of a fan that the excrement was fed through and then told they had to put it all back together in a way that made it not stinky. To your last sentence, I say, compromise. It's what is necessary. The problem is people think compromise is a sign of weakness, when in fact it's a sign of intelligence(if used correctly).
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3197782
My rhetoric? You have said there is a storm coming, posted a picture of a tea party person with a next time we will be armed sign and in the post above admit to making rascist comments. Also making comments that you want to execute your fellow American's with a differing political view, well that is beyond belief.
I don't think anyone believes your founding father nonsense either, you should be ashamed using that as a way to promote your OWN political agenda which is far from "We the people." Your no better than those on the far-left who want to change this country to fit their own selfish needs, sorry.
Fishtaco
*Sigh* Let me clarify for you.
Storm coming=2010/12 elections
Tea party picture....lets quote it correctly"We came unarmed this time."= To me its a message to politicians in Washington. Shape up or we are going to ship you out,however i believe it a foregone conclusion they are going to be shipped out.
Ive addressed the racial issue and i have nothing more to say about it.
You are so very wrong on your Founding Fathers theory and you shall see in the very near future.Do you think the Tea Party movement is i small isolated blip? You havent been paying attention if you do.
Now please show me where I said I wanted to seriously execute someone.I dont believe I never,ever said that.You must have quote dyslexia or something.....Show me.
 

stevedave08

Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/3197794
*Sigh* Let me clarify for you.
Storm coming=2010/12 elections
Tea party picture....lets quote it correctly"We came unarmed this time."= To me its a message to politicians in Washington. Shape up or we are going to ship you out,however i believe it a foregone conclusion they are going to be shipped out.
Ive addressed the racial issue and i have nothing more to say about it.
You are so very wrong on your Founding Fathers theory and you shall see in the very near future.Do you think the Tea Party movement is i small isolated blip? You havent been paying attention if you do.
Now please show me where I said I wanted to seriously execute someone.I dont believe I never,ever said that.You must have quote dyslexia or something.....Show me.
You didn't say you would execute someone, but you did say that if Jefferson were alive today he'd run out of ammo shooting "traitors". Either way, let's all move on from this and stay on issues here and it'll be a better discussion.
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3197809
You didn't say you would execute someone, but you did say that if Jefferson were alive today he'd run out of ammo shooting "traitors". Either way, let's all move on from this and stay on issues here and it'll be a better discussion.
Agreed
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3197778
Abortion has been and always will be a controversial issue between the Pro Choice and Pro Life. That debate will never be concluded. We know that. Neither side will bend on their viewpoints on the subject, so it's a waste of space to even argue about it. The point I'm trying to make is a person that signs up to be a physician or a pharmacist chose that profession to assist and treat individuals who suffer from ANY medical condition. They shouldn't be able to pick and choose which one's they treat based on their religious views. These professions should be impartial, with the ultimate goal of treating the patient to the best of their abilities, and to the wishes of said patient, since they are paying a price for the 'service'. We all know that a woman looking to get an abortion would not got to their normal GP. Abortion is like any other 'speciality' - Oncologist, Orthopedist, Cardiologist, etc. So to that point, a GP can very well refuse to perform an abortion, but at the same time, that GP should be supportive for their patient's decision, and assist them in finding a reputable 'specialist' willing to perform this procedure.
As far as a pharmacist not administering b1rth control p1lls or Day After P1lls, when a customer has a valid prescription from a licensed physician, to me that's totally inexcusable. You say there are 'alternatives'. You know how many pregnancies have occurred due to defective c0ndoms? Not to mention, in the heat of passion, the last thing partners want to do is be 'interrupted' with the 'procedure' of administering that contraceptive. B1rth Contr9l P1lls have been shown to be 99% effective against pregnancy, IF PROPERLY USED. If a pharmacist has issues or religious convictions about administering these types of drugs, they have no business practicing this profession, plain and simple.
LOLOL. I don't expect Obama to do squat for me. I voted for the guy because the alternative would've wreaked havoc on this country far worse than what he's done so far. Give me a better choice, and I'll vote that individual in. Until then, I'm willing to give our current President a chance to do what he claimed he could do during all his useless campaign speeches. If it's the "same ole' status quo" I've seen in the last two Presidents, I'll vote against him. The difference between me and you is I'm willing to give the guy a shot at fixing the crap that was left him. You only the other hand, will never accept any accomplishments he does because the simple truth is you think Democrat=Evil=Socilaism.
So should burger king serve a Big Mac if there is no McDonalds in the immediate vicinity or vice versa. After all, they went into the burger industry so serve all the burgers or don't open a burger joint.
Condoms are 99% effective....WHEN used properly...just like birth control. Hey, not having --- is 100% effective...there is a novel idea....The whole p[oint of this country is freedom....you claim to support that, yet you want the government to force people to perform certain actions. In the interest of "fairness". Life isn't fair.
This country was founded on freedom of religion. There shall be no law preventing or prohibiting the practice of that freedom. If I was a muslim butcher would you force me to serve pork...even if touching pork is bad in my religion? Whjat if I was the only Butcher for a 50 mile stretch? Pork is cheap...so am I hindering the poor by not offerring pork? It is no different than a doctor and his views on abortion.
Pregnancy is not a medical illness, ailment, or disease. It is self inflicted. And what clinic doesn't have more than one doctor? If you can afford the abortion you can afford the cab ride to a clinic that will perform it. Give me a break.
I don't dislike everything Obama has done. Just most of it. I like how he is ramping up in Afghanistan. I like how he sees afghanistan as the focal point to fighting terrorism and isn't capitulating to the "party" of retreat. What I dislike is the same thing I disliked with bush..the spending. You guys complained about Bush growing government..yet here is Obama trying to do the same...but since you get something out of it for "free" it is ok with you.
 

stevedave08

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3197821
So should burger king serve a Big Mac if there is no McDonalds in the immediate vicinity or vice versa. After all, they went into the burger industry so serve all the burgers or don't open a burger joint.
Condoms are 99% effective....WHEN used properly...just like birth control. Hey, not having --- is 100% effective...there is a novel idea....The whole p[oint of this country is freedom....you claim to support that, yet you want the government to force people to perform certain actions. In the interest of "fairness". Life isn't fair.
This country was founded on freedom of religion. There shall be no law preventing or prohibiting the practice of that freedom. If I was a muslim butcher would you force me to serve pork...even if touching pork is bad in my religion? Whjat if I was the only Butcher for a 50 mile stretch? Pork is cheap...so am I hindering the poor by not offerring pork? It is no different than a doctor and his views on abortion.
Pregnancy is not a medical illness, ailment, or disease. It is self inflicted. And what clinic doesn't have more than one doctor? If you can afford the abortion you can afford the cab ride to a clinic that will perform it. Give me a break.
I don't dislike everything Obama has done. Just most of it. I like how he is ramping up in Afghanistan. I like how he sees afghanistan as the focal point to fighting terrorism and isn't capitulating to the "party" of retreat. What I dislike is the same thing I disliked with bush..the spending. You guys complained about Bush growing government..yet here is Obama trying to do the same...but since you get something out of it for "free" it is ok with you.
What exactly is being gotten for free?
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3197826
What exactly is being gotten for free?
I used quotation marks.....meaning not really free (healthcare) but the implication is there since most of the tax will still come from business and The "wealthy" since the bottom 50% will still pay no federal income tax. Thus those most likely to use it will be "free".
I am referring to the "public option" versus the exchange.
 

stevedave08

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3197847
I used quotation marks.....meaning not really free (healthcare) but the implication is there since most of the tax will still come from business and The "wealthy" since the bottom 50% will still pay no federal income tax. Thus those most likely to use it will be "free".
I am referring to the "public option" versus the exchange.
Gotcha. I think a public option that collected premiums might have been a better route. Thoughts?
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3197821
So should burger king serve a Big Mac if there is no McDonalds in the immediate vicinity or vice versa. After all, they went into the burger industry so serve all the burgers or don't open a burger joint.
Condoms are 99% effective....WHEN used properly...just like birth control. Hey, not having --- is 100% effective...there is a novel idea....The whole p[oint of this country is freedom....you claim to support that, yet you want the government to force people to perform certain actions. In the interest of "fairness". Life isn't fair.
This country was founded on freedom of religion. There shall be no law preventing or prohibiting the practice of that freedom. If I was a muslim butcher would you force me to serve pork...even if touching pork is bad in my religion? Whjat if I was the only Butcher for a 50 mile stretch? Pork is cheap...so am I hindering the poor by not offerring pork? It is no different than a doctor and his views on abortion.
Pregnancy is not a medical illness, ailment, or disease. It is self inflicted. And what clinic doesn't have more than one doctor? If you can afford the abortion you can afford the cab ride to a clinic that will perform it. Give me a break.
I don't dislike everything Obama has done. Just most of it. I like how he is ramping up in Afghanistan. I like how he sees afghanistan as the focal point to fighting terrorism and isn't capitulating to the "party" of retreat. What I dislike is the same thing I disliked with bush..the spending. You guys complained about Bush growing government..yet here is Obama trying to do the same...but since you get something out of it for "free" it is ok with you.
I'm not saying the government should force anyone to do something they choose not to do, whether it's due to their moral or religious convictions. I'm saying when you sign up to work in the medical field or ANY OTHER profession, you are expected to DO THE JOB based on what you learned. If that job conflicts with your religious beliefs, CHANGE YOUR PROFESSION. Being some Muslim butcher is no comparison to a job as a doctor. If the butcher refuses to sell you pork, the worse that can happen is you don't have bacon with your breakfast. If a doctor refuses to treat you for a fatal illness because it's against his religious principles, YOU DIE. If a pharmacist refuses to fill your prescription for the Day After Pill, YOU GET PREGNANT when you didn't want to. For whatever reason - I forgot to take my pill, the condom broke, your fault, her fault, nobody's fault, ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.
Just because this country was founded on religion, doesn't mean someone should use that as an excuse or an out to shirk their duties or get out of doing something they disagree with. It's like these Jehovah Witness (or whichever religion it is) that can't work on Saturday's. So they go get a job that requires you to work on Saturday, and the manager lets you go because he needs you to work some shifts on Saturday and you won't work on those days because they represent your 'Sabbath'. Then this same person files some lawsuit against the company because they fired you because you refuse to work on Saturday. You knew going in that working Saturday's was against your religion, but you're expecting the company to make an exception and let you not work Saturday's while all the employees have to take up the slack, because 'the Constitution says so.' But you're OK with that because that's the premise behind Freedom Of Religion.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
For you individuals who like to quote the Founding Fathers. I found this quote from one of your breatheren that was quite interesting:
"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship... the Constitution of this Republic should make special provision for medical freedom as well as religious freedom." -- Benjamin Rush M.D. a signer of the Declaration of Independence
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3197918
If a doctor refuses to treat you for a fatal illness because it's against his religious principles, YOU DIE. If a pharmacist refuses to fill your prescription for the Day After Pill, YOU GET PREGNANT when you didn't want to. For whatever reason - I forgot to take my pill, the condom broke, your fault, her fault, nobody's fault, ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.
Which religion prevents doctors from treating patients that would die? No one is going to die if requesting an abortion...and as I stated...there are enough doctors in the same clinic willing to do the procedure. If the pharmacist refuses your prescription...just go down the street. Or here is a novel idea...have it filled out at the prescription office IN THE HOSPITAL!
You are making sound as if the doctor refuses the person has no option. Here is a novel idea....don't have --- until you can go to the convienance store and buy condoms.....They even have female condoms now...use both.....
The doctor is not refusing you medical treatment when the purpose is birth control.....if it is birth control or an abortion where no one's life is in danger....then it is NOT a medical condition.
And yes it is the same thing with regards to the butcher..... matter of personal choice of the butcher/doctor inconvienancing you is all it is.....neither is a life or death situation and neither HAS to occur for your life to continue in a healthy manner.
Would you make a person find another job if their religious belief prevented them from handling meat and they worked for a Butcher? Would the butcher have the right to fire them (knowing ahead of time) if they wouldn't handle the meat if asked to? Is this insubordination?
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3197929
For you individuals who like to quote the Founding Fathers. I found this quote from one of your breatheren that was quite interesting:
"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship... the Constitution of this Republic should make special provision for medical freedom as well as religious freedom." -- Benjamin Rush M.D. a signer of the Declaration of Independence

Ok, what is medical freedom?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Let me get this straight. I invest my time and money to become a qualified pharmacist, Then invest my money to start a

[hr]
business which I then operate. You have the right to demand I carry items that would be contrary to my personal or religious beliefs?
I don't think I want to live in Bionics America

Big town small town no town, you don't like the way I run my business go elsewhere. If there isn't another

[hr]
in town oh well. That is the sacrifice you make for choosing to live in Podunk.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3197666
It's funny, because I agree with Dragonzim on the few liberal viewpoints he holds. They are pretty much the same views I have, but if I support one liberal thing I'm automatically a progressive liberal even though I'm really not. I guess we can describe people like Veni as REGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES.
I am the same way. Most people assume I am a right wing Republican.
I am not pro life but do favor things like parental consent and even a short waiting period for elective abortions.
I would legalize Marijuana and maybe cocaine
While not in favor of Gay marriage I would vote against a ban that didn't offer gays a civil union provision of some sort that offers them the exact same rights a married couple has
I don't think tax cuts are the answer to all life's problems
I am sure there are more but......
 

stevedave08

Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3197942
I am the same way. Most people assume I am a right wing Republican.
I am not pro life but do favor things like parental consent and even a short waiting period for elective abortions.
I would legalize Marijuana and maybe cocaine
While not in favor of Gay marriage I would vote against a ban that didn't offer gays a civil union provision of some sort that offers them the exact same rights a married couple has
I don't think tax cuts are the answer to all life's problems
I am sure there are more but......
I agree with you on all of those things, strongly. About legalization, I'd say Marijuana will eventually get legalized, but I don't think coke will. I don't like either anyway, but I have friends that would be pretty happy about the reefer...no pun intended. LOL.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3197946
I agree with you on all of those things, strongly. About legalization, I'd say Marijuana will eventually get legalized, but I don't think coke will. I don't like either anyway, but I have friends that would be pretty happy about the reefer...no pun intended. LOL.
My main handle on the reef boards is the Grim Reefer, You'd be amazed the amount of people who have assumed that is a 420 friendly reference. Don't like it but have done it enough to know it's no worse than being mildly drunk.
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3197929
For you individuals who like to quote the Founding Fathers. I found this quote from one of your breatheren that was quite interesting:
"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship... the Constitution of this Republic should make special provision for medical freedom as well as religious freedom." -- Benjamin Rush M.D. a signer of the Declaration of Independence
This would be wonderful if in fact the founders did add this provision,however they did not.There is no provision in the Constitution for the Federal Government to provide it so it can not be done.
If the Federal Government wants to provide health care for all, then we need to amend the Constitution.Until then I believe the SCOTUS will deem this bill unconstitutional if it indeed ever is passed into law.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3197942
I am the same way. Most people assume I am a right wing Republican.
I am not pro life but do favor things like parental consent and even a short waiting period for elective abortions.
I would legalize Marijuana and maybe cocaine
While not in favor of Gay marriage I would vote against a ban that didn't offer gays a civil union provision of some sort that offers them the exact same rights a married couple has
I don't think tax cuts are the answer to all life's problems
I am sure there are more but......
That would fit my bill for the most part as well. I personally am pro-life...however this has been ruled upon and so in my opinion is a done deal....the odds of an overturn are so small it isn't worth the effort. Now you have to educate people on their options as a pro-lifer nd do not demean anyone that chooses to follow through with an abortion. For many women it is a hard enough choice to make without some pro-life person belittling them.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3197936
Let me get this straight. I invest my time and money to become a qualified pharmacist, Then invest my money to start a

[hr]
business which I then operate. You have the right to demand I carry items that would be contrary to my personal or religious beliefs?
I don't think I want to live in Bionics America

Big town small town no town, you don't like the way I run my business go elsewhere. If there isn't another

[hr]
in town oh well. That is the sacrifice you make for choosing to live in Podunk.
I'm not talking about independent pharmacists that have their own little private apothecary. You are correct, they can deny service to whoever they like. I'm talking about the pharmacist that works for the major chain, and that chain has no policy denying ANY specific prescription from getting filled.
And you're right, that's exactly why I don't live in Podunk, USA. I choose to live where I have MY personal freedoms to decide who to give my business to.
 
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