Healthcare bill will pass the senate.

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3193542
Where in the constitution or bill of rights is that again?
And give me examples of how the line is thin....
Its not in the constitution but I believe it was Jefferson who coined the term and it was his influence that basically called for the State to stay out of religion and for religion to stay out of the State.
It is also commonly held that the First Amendment created that separation.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
"The point of such an amendment is twofold. First, it ensures that religious beliefs - private or organized - are removed from attempted government control. This is the reason why the government cannot tell either you or your church what to believe or to teach. Second, it ensures that the government does not get involved with enforcing, mandating, or promoting particular religious doctrines. This is what happens when the government "establishes" a church - and because doing so created so many problems in Europe, the authors of the Constitution wanted to try and prevent the same from happening here."

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3193468
To be completely honest, that's one of the more innovative taxation plans I've heard of to fund a program. Sure, 800 sq ft is small for a family of four, but I doubt many families of four live in such small spaces, so they pay taxes on their additional space which funds their program. I bet they pay the taxes, but they don't have to pay for an insurance premium every month. I'm sure the government did set the allowances knowing that most families of that size don't live in such small spaces and would then have to pay some additional taxes. While I might not agree with the space allotments they say are appropriate for that size family, I think taxing someone who buys a giant house based on the sq footage is kind of brilliant. It kind of makes sense to make the allowance for the 4 person fam smaller though, because if they made them larger then they wouldn't be able to tax everyone, only the rich would get taxed as they generally have larger homes. If you have more money than most and you want to buy a house larger than most, then you make that decision to buy based on wether you are willing to pay the additional taxes or not, it's your decision. Now, moving down the food chain to someone who isn't as wealthy, it is a matter of how much they get taxed per sq footage of the extra space. I really can't agree or disagree with it unless I have an idea of how much the taxes are, but if i had a fam of 4 in a space bigger than 800sq ft and I already lived in that space before the system got put into place, I wouldn't be upset about paying the additional taxes because I know it's going toward my families health care. It does make sense.

This is how I know you and I will never see eye to eye on most things. You have no problem with the govt. dictating the size homa your family can live in. This tax was in place before their healthcare program. I am just showing the kinds of taxes these countries have that do have a healthcare plan.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3193539
It was the same founders who set us up so that there would be a SEPARATION between church and state. That line is so thin now you could shave with it.
Keep reading the founders thought and ideas you will find out what is meant by separation and why.
Ill post some fact for you later so you can start to grasp the intent.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3193574
Its not in the constitution but I believe it was Jefferson who coined the term and it was his influence that basically called for the State to stay out of religion and for religion to stay out of the State.
It is also commonly held that the First Amendment created that separation.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
"The point of such an amendment is twofold. First, it ensures that religious beliefs - private or organized - are removed from attempted government control. This is the reason why the government cannot tell either you or your church what to believe or to teach. Second, it ensures that the government does not get involved with enforcing, mandating, or promoting particular religious doctrines. This is what happens when the government "establishes" a church - and because doing so created so many problems in Europe, the authors of the Constitution wanted to try and prevent the same from happening here."
Which law has government passed regarding religion and which religion has government prevented the practice of? I still don't see your example on how the line right now between church and state is so thin. Example?

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3193574
Its not in the constitution but I believe it was Jefferson who coined the term and it was his influence that basically called for the State to stay out of religion and for religion to stay out of the State.
I can show various founders that stated slavery was also just fine......

Just because Jefferson voiced an opinion does NOT mean this is law......

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3193596
Which law has government passed regarding religion and which religion has government prevented the practice of? I still don't see your example on how the line right now between church and state is so thin. Example?
How about the christian right trying to overturn Roe Vs Wade and criminalize legal abortions?

 

[stevedave08]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3193590
This is how I know you and I will never see eye to eye on most things. You have no problem with the govt. dictating the size homa your family can live in. This tax was in place before their healthcare program. I am just showing the kinds of taxes these countries have that do have a healthcare plan.
They aren't dictating what size home you can live in, you can live in whatever size house you want, but you must pay for the additional size. It's just like my assessed value going up or down on my house based on some guys rolling wheel and camera. If it were taxes that were being used for something like healthcare in this case, I'd probably be okay with it. Something like this is unlikely here though since, nothing in the U.S. ever gets done right. We only take care of other countries and not our own.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3193602
How about the christian right trying to overturn Roe Vs Wade and criminalize legal abortions?
There are plenty of people who oppose abortion based on moral rather than religious grounds. They make their case just like many opposed to the death penalty do without regard to any religious convictions. Just because the Christian right wants to change the law doesn't mean they are trying to eliminate the concept of the separation of church and state, which by the way is not in the constitution or any of it's amendments.

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3193624
There are plenty of people who oppose abortion based on moral rather than religious grounds. They make their case just like many opposed to the death penalty do without regard to any religious convictions. Just because the Christian right wants to change the law doesn't mean they are trying to eliminate the concept of the separation of church and state, which by the way is not in the constitution or any of it's amendments.
I would bet that the majority of those that oppose it are for religious reasons and not just moral.
One thing I've noticed is that when driving around at least 95% of the cars that have pro-life bumper stickers on them also have the silly little jesus fish on them too.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3193653
I would bet that the majority of those that oppose it are for religious reasons and not just moral.
One thing I've noticed is that when driving around at least 95% of the cars that have pro-life bumper stickers on them also have the silly little jesus fish on them too.
Even assuming most base it religious values it still doesn't cross the line. Hell the majority of our laws are based on religious teachings in the first place. All the founders truly intended was to prevent the government from taking over religion like happened in England. That doesn't mean the government has to oppose religion, they just have to treat all religions equally.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3193653
I would bet that the majority of those that oppose it are for religious reasons and not just moral.
One thing I've noticed is that when driving around at least 95% of the cars that have pro-life bumper stickers on them also have the silly little jesus fish on them too.
Oh, you should try looking up the symbolism of the little fish before calling them silly.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3193607
They aren't dictating what size home you can live in, you can live in whatever size house you want, but you must pay for the additional size. It's just like my assessed value going up or down on my house based on some guys rolling wheel and camera. If it were taxes that were being used for something like healthcare in this case, I'd probably be okay with it. Something like this is unlikely here though since, nothing in the U.S. ever gets done right. We only take care of other countries and not our own.
Have you seen the houses the greenies want us to live in? And you don't think that would be a pie in the sky desire? Come on. They've already emasculated the SUV. See how much you have to pay (thanks to higher taxes) to buy a one ton truck in California... And WONDERFUL motors like the 7.3 liter are gone thanks to environmental regulations... You can apply the same logic they've used to attack the SUV to a 4 or 5 thousand SqFt home...
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3193624
There are plenty of people who oppose abortion based on moral rather than religious grounds. They make their case just like many opposed to the death penalty do without regard to any religious convictions. Just because the Christian right wants to change the law doesn't mean they are trying to eliminate the concept of the separation of church and state, which by the way is not in the constitution or any of it's amendments.
lol I'm going to use that argument next time I hear some one wining about killing murderers... You need to separate your religious views on killing from government. bahaha

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3193710
Have you seen the houses the greenies want us to live in? And you don't think that would be a pie in the sky desire? Come on. They've already emasculated the SUV. See how much you have to pay (thanks to higher taxes) to buy a one ton truck in California... And WONDERFUL motors like the 7.3 liter are gone thanks to environmental regulations... You can apply the same logic they've used to attack the SUV to a 4 or 5 thousand SqFt home...
lol I'm going to use that argument next time I hear some one wining about killing murderers... You need to separate your religious views on killing from government. bahaha
I'm fine with my modest 1300ft home, I want a 4 or 5 thousand square foot garage. LOL

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3192793
So the senate democrats have their 60 votes to avoid a filibuster.
To do this, they inserted some pork for the senator in Nebraska stating the federal government would pick up the medicaid costs for nebraska.
I find it irritating that it is illegal for a company to give a senator or congressman money in exchange for government contracts. But congressman can sell their votes in the same manner. Now not only do we get the healthcare bill....everyone across the country is paying for nebraska's medicaid costs.

So nice to live in a representative I mean bribery republic.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/3193761
So nice to live in a representative I mean bribery republic.
Cash for cloture starring:
The Cornhuskers Kick Back
The Louisiana Purchase
And the Arkansas bendover cause I don't think she got squat for her vote.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3193567
Umm, yeah, what did he say that wasn't true? He specifically called out birthers and fringe people. It absolutely is true that the GOP is using these people to build up steam. You don't see them correcting anyone, or trying to quell unreasonable comments/actions by these people that are based on blind assumptions or just straight up hatred.
You don't have a problem with that, but you do have a problem with vini?

do you not see the hypocracy in that?
And HELL NO, he's implying that everyone who is against that bill is a fringe lunatic. So no he is wrong, it is offensive. he's basically calling me an aryan extreemist...

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3193778
Cash for cloture starring:
The Cornhuskers Kick Back
The Louisiana Purchase
And the Arkansas bendover cause I don't think she got squat for her vote.

We already bought it once.
It should be the Louisiana Re-purchase. It cost $60,000,000 the first time. I wonder what the second will cost?

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/3193593
Keep reading the founders thought and ideas you will find out what is meant by separation and why.
Ill post some fact for you later so you can start to grasp the intent.
Great. Veni's gonna start his posts of all the 'Founding Fathers' quotes again...

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3193787
Great. Veni's gonna start his posts of all the 'Founding Fathers' quotes again...

I would rather listen to what the founding fathers have to say rather than Obama,Ried,Pelosi or any other selfish self seeking politician in congress or the oval office right now or from the very near past let alone your blithering statements of imbecility.

 

[chilwil84]

Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/3193539
It was the same founders who set us up so that there would be a SEPARATION between church and state. That line is so thin now you could shave with it.
i guess you never read any of our founding documents that have the words god written in them. if you draw a picture of a person on a cross for christmas in school now you get in trouble.