Healthcare town hall

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by renogaw
http:///forum/post/3109053
Putnam CT had a town meeting last night. There was to be about 250 townspeople there, all with some opposition or another to what is going on. When they arrived, the WHOLE parking lot was full of Massachusetts liscensed cars. When they got in, the first four rows were FULL of Massachusetts Ironworker Union goons. They had BIG signs that were being held up to prevent people behind them seeing anything.
After some councillors spoke, the head of the Ironworker's union gave an even longer speech about nonsense. After that, the Q&A lasted about 15 mins, but only certain people were called on, and they all had 5x7 prewritten questions...
One person who disagreed that 60million americans (it's only 42mil) don't have health insurance was physically removed by two of the ironworker union females in attendance.
Look at all the goons showing up at other town halls.
America better wake up soon...
Oh, btw, there is NOTHING in the news, internet, anywhere i can find that talks about this either...
Why should you be shocked. 80 or 90 percent of the media is in the tank for Obama.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3108876
And for the record yet again, I am not gainst some form of healthcare reform or "plan" by the government. I am against forcing others to pay for it during an economic time such as we have. If you want it...then the people benefitting from it should pay their own way.
and Obamas words have not been placed in ANY bill that I have seen. Call me partisan, that is hilarious...considering I proposed an alternative healthcare plan on this forum....Like I said, I am not against the plan, I am against the plan in their current form as written....and the written form is ALL that matters. Bush the older told me no new taxes repeatedly....what happened...oh yeah, there were new taxes....Obama has said some things over and over, and then didn't follow through...so why should this be any different?
With all the media coverage and attention this issue and bill has gotten, do you honestly think Obama is going to blindly sign whatever final bill is handed to him without first going over it with a fine tooth comb? Now that he has come out to the American people and made the statements he has, it would be political suicide if he skewed from ANY of the proposals he's made. If he signs a bill that does increase taxes, that does force people to change from their current insurance, that does cost individuals more money for the same health services they have today, the next thing you'll see is the American public demanding impeachment trials. At this point, he's committed to follow through with his recent claims. Anything else, he won't have a chance in 2012.

 

[deejeff442]

as i see it even obama said look at fedx and ups they are doing great and the usps isnt.what has the gov't ever run except the military that has done good?
nothing, how could this be different?
if the plan passes and the private doctors are doing better than the gov't plan just like the usps the gov't will just stomp them out .

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3109367
With all the media coverage and attention this issue and bill has gotten, do you honestly think Obama is going to blindly sign whatever final bill is handed to him without first going over it with a fine tooth comb? Now that he has come out to the American people and made the statements he has, it would be political suicide if he skewed from ANY of the proposals he's made. If he signs a bill that does increase taxes, that does force people to change from their current insurance, that does cost individuals more money for the same health services they have today, the next thing you'll see is the American public demanding impeachment trials. At this point, he's committed to follow through with his recent claims. Anything else, he won't have a chance in 2012.
He blindly signed the stimulus plan....Which while a good majority believe it helped stimulate the economy I am still waiting for the backlash effects of the cash for clunkers portion to take effect in the long term. The big Three are about to have a LONG dry spell in sales when this bill runs its course.
Tell you what, if his plan is so solid and the right thing to do, why not just pass it. He doesn't need a single republican vote. He has said he wants them to sit down, shut up, and get out of the way. In the grand scheme of things, the republicans are out of the way....so just pass this wonderful piece of legislation.....
Don't you have to break a law for an impeachment.....impeachment is not preventing this bill frm getting passed.
He claims we will pay as we go for this......His deficit is already 900 billion PER YEAR. This is not pay as you go.....you don't set aside money for New spending and call it pay as you go while maintaining the huge defecit we have....That is robbing peter to pay paul. Atleast Clinton understood pay as you go....

 

[darthtang aw]

80-90% of elderly that have medicare/medicaid (I forget which) still have to have a secondary private insurance plan. That means they are paying for private insurance still....now we want to expand a similar program? Fix the program first, then expand it.
You don't buy a blower for the engine when you have a flat tire on the car.....If you do, you are still getting no where...you fix what is broken first.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3109367
With all the media coverage and attention this issue and bill has gotten, do you honestly think Obama is going to blindly sign whatever final bill is handed to him without first going over it with a fine tooth comb? .
Did you not see the back and forth with Obama a couple weeks ago at a town hall even? He was asked about the provision that was since removed from the house bill. Obama's exact reply was "I am not familiar with that provision". He had been touting the bill before that when he obviously was missing several teeth in the fine tooth comb he went over that with. He is looking for several provisions he needs in any bill to pay back his union bribes, I mean campaign gifts but as long as they are there I think he will sign anything. Isn't it odd how the "Cadillac policies" are even now fair game for additional taxation unless you are a union member or member of Congress.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by deejeff442
http:///forum/post/3109370
as i see it even obama said look at fedx and ups they are doing great and the usps isnt.what has the gov't ever run except the military that has done good?
nothing, how could this be different?
if the plan passes and the private doctors are doing better than the gov't plan just like the usps the gov't will just stomp them out .
I think that right there is the best commercial they could make to slam the public option. Use Obama's own words against him and let the Democrats call it a lie. Of course the media probably would.

 

[deejeff442]

do you think when the dems were trying to fast track this through and it didnt go through right away they had any idea of this backlash?
if the stimulas was working it might have gone through but you know .who was the wise man that said you can fool me once shame you fool me again shame on me.
i think thats how it goes.
darth is right i just saw a news clip on how the dealers are running out of cars to sell.the dealer said he has talked to alot of other dealers and not one of them has gotten a penny from the govt for the clunker deals yet.
once the clunker deal is done half the dealers will be closed within a year.
nobody will be buying a car.

 

[darthtang aw]

An opinion piece from a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT "journalist".
This sums it up completely.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/...12/town_halls/
Maybe if coming from a liberal, Bionicarm will finally get what we are saying..........

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3109374
He blindly signed the stimulus plan....Which while a good majority believe it helped stimulate the economy I am still waiting for the backlash effects of the cash for clunkers portion to take effect in the long term. The big Three are about to have a LONG dry spell in sales when this bill runs its course.
Tell you what, if his plan is so solid and the right thing to do, why not just pass it. He doesn't need a single republican vote. He has said he wants them to sit down, shut up, and get out of the way. In the grand scheme of things, the republicans are out of the way....so just pass this wonderful piece of legislation.....
Don't you have to break a law for an impeachment.....impeachment is not preventing this bill frm getting passed.
He claims we will pay as we go for this......His deficit is already 900 billion PER YEAR. This is not pay as you go.....you don't set aside money for New spending and call it pay as you go while maintaining the huge defecit we have....That is robbing peter to pay paul. Atleast Clinton understood pay as you go....
AGAIN, listen to what he has stated as far as how to pay for it. He wants to fix and clean up the known inefficiencies in the current bloated programs, i.e MEDICARE/MEDICAID. That alone will cover 2/3rds the cost of his program. The other third was going to come from taxing the rich guys, but I think now he even wants to back off on that because all that does is prove he wanted to raise taxes to begin with. So now he's talking about anyone who signs up for the government plan, to pay some kind of premium. If you already have as good health insurance plan, and you like your rates, fine. Keep that insurance and move on. If the government plan offers better rates and better services, you have the option to switch to that plan. YOUR CHOICE.
I imagine if Obama wanted to just accept whatever Congress has for a plan, just so he can keep his word he would get this done by the end of the year, he probably would have no problems getting the votes he needed. But he is trying to get a plan put together that EVERYONE agrees with, on both sides of the fence. He wants to work with both sides, but the Republicans refuse to do so. They have the same attitude as you, "What we have now is good enough. Anything else will just raise taxes and turn us into a Socialist nation. All we have to do is fix what's broken." The problem is, they've had over a decade to 'fix what's broken', and they don't do it. It's the same old "talk and no action". The insurance company PAC's and lobbyists just keep lining their pockets to keep the legislation off the table. Obama wants to take the "Buck Stops Here" approach to get some kind of health reform on the books. If the Republicans are so h3ll bent on stopping this, then they had better come up with a viable alternative. I don't want to see this important reform killed yet again, and we simply go back to the 'same ole same ole'. Don't know about you, but I've only got about 13 years before I'm in the same boat as the other geriatrics that are on Medicare. Problem is, if spending on that program continues at its current pace, there won't be any health coverage for me when I get that age. So I guess the 'death rule' will apply to all us 'Tail End Baby Boomers".

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108817
"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."
And you call palin stupid.

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108824
Maybe if YOU listened to Obama, instead of Hannity and Limbaugh, you may actually understand what he'd like to see in the bill.
What gets me is that we are suddenly supposed to forget everything that obama has said over his entire public life, and start believing him now.
If I accept your contention, that obama some how had absolutely nothing to do with a bill that almost directly mirrors what he had said he wanted (something to transition from the system we have now to a single payer system over 10-15 years), then politically speaking, Obama is throwing every single one of the democrat bill supporters under the bus, because if I were to believe what he and his surrogates are saying, he is against the house bill, which is the only bill that has been released for the public.

 

[deejeff442]

how the hell can obama fix inefficiencies when everyone know the govt can run anything efficient?
when is the last time the gov't fixed anything are we to believe it will start now?
the gov't is more wastefull than any private company out there.
why dont ted kennedy instead of the state of the art modern doctor help he is recieving right now just take a pain pill like all the rest of us would have to do in this plan?
if kennedy was in this plan he would be dead already.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3109575
AGAIN, listen to what he has stated as far as how to pay for it. He wants to fix and clean up the known inefficiencies in the current bloated programs, i.e MEDICARE/MEDICAID. That alone will cover 2/3rds the cost of his program.
The Congressional budget office has already shot down that lie. Even assuming you could eliminate all the fraud and waste in medicare it wont come close to paying for the program.
I imagine if Obama wanted to just accept whatever Congress has for a plan, just so he can keep his word he would get this done by the end of the year, he probably would have no problems getting the votes he needed.
Hello? Anyone in there? Obus doesn't need a single Republican vote to pass any laws. If he could get all the Democrats on board the bill would have already passed.
But he is trying to get a plan put together that EVERYONE agrees with, on both sides of the fence. He wants to work with both sides, but the Republicans refuse to do so.
I guess you haven't followed the work Senate finance Chairman Max Baucus has been doing with 3 Democrats and 3 Republicans from the finance committee. Just because the Republicans aren't willing to roll over and let Queen Nancy and the Ossiah create a system that if not completely socialist certainly very close to it I would say they are doing the job they were elected to do.
They have the same attitude as you, "What we have now is good enough. Anything else will just raise taxes and turn us into a Socialist nation. All we have to do is fix what's broken." The problem is, they've had over a decade to 'fix what's broken', and they don't do it. It's the same old "talk and no action". The insurance company PAC's and lobbyists just keep lining their pockets to keep the legislation off the table.
And by the same token because the Democrat party is in the pocked of the trial lawyers they wont do a thing to resolve one of the major causes of increases in the cost of health care. They system we have now works for the majority of people. Why not just correct the problem rather than scraping the system?
Obama wants to take the "Buck Stops Here" approach to get some kind of health reform on the books.
Oh God, I can't keep going on, I am laughing too hard. When has Obama came out without parsing his words and said I support this bill or add or delete these provisions and I will support the bill.

 

[darthtang aw]

Let's try this approach. FRance has a national Healthcare single payer system. It is 7% of their GDP. Englands is around 9% I believe. Right now, with just medicare and medicaid, ours is at 17%. We are double their GDP from a PERCENTAGE standpoint (so you can't argue population size versus cost is the reason they are cheaper) and we don't even have national plan. With most of the plans proposed and what Obama is saying, The GDP percentage would go up to about 21-22% for us. If we can't pay for 17% now, how in the world do we pay for 21%?

 

[darthtang aw]

And another reason it costs us more in this country than others.
In 2004, the health care industry spent three times as much as Europe per capita on biomedical research. Companies provide medical products such as pharmaceuticals and medical devices. In 2006, the United States accounted for three quarters of the world’s biotechnology revenues and 82% of world R&D spending in biotechnology. The amount of financing by private industry has increased 102% from 1994 to 2003. Governmental research institutes such as the National Institutes of Health are key in funding basic research.
The top five U.S. hospitals carry out more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other country. Between 1975 and 2008, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to U.S. residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined. In 29 of the 34 years between 1975 and 2008, a scientist living in the U.S. either won or shared in the prize.
You want the best? It costs.

 

[oscardeuce]

Even better than the VP " We have to spend money to avoid bankruptcy."
"... Fed Ex and UPS are doing fine, it's the Post Office thats in trouble"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqUmuZnmf7A
Yup, that make me want the gov't to run health care.
Last I checked Fed Ex and UPS were evil private for profit companies, and USPS was a gov't kompanie.
Let's keep Pres Obama talking........

 

[kjr_trig]

Everyone whom thinks that want government/socialized medicine should watch this British politician on Hannity's show tonight. You will learn quickly how bad it is over in the U.K.
Here is an example, early detection Prostate Cancer in the U.K. has a 77% survival rate for 5 years....Sounds good huh? Know what the 5 year survival rate in the U.S. is?
How about 100%....That means, if caught early in the U.S., nobody dies within 5 years from Prostate Cancer (that doesn't count getting hit by a bus for example, it just says Prostate Cancer won't kill you). In the U.K., you have a 1 in 4 chance of it killing you within 5 years.
Sweet huh.

 

[zman1]

I am sure, since president Obama won at 52.9%, the other 47.1% surely are voicing their opposition to any plan. I don't think it's strange to have folks against it. I am for getting the cost off healthcare off the back of business and everyone covered. When I say covered, I mean beyond catastrophic coverage. The claims that there are fewer uninsured than being touted. There are many so called insured that can't afford to get sick by of pocket cost of the policies. The list below are my concerns:
1. Staggering healthcare cost that businesses have to pay for fulltime employees - tough for the U.S. companies to compete when their completion in the world when they don't have these direct cost.
2. U.S business gaming healthcare by hiring all workers except managers as part-time.
3. I am not worried as much about the government picking my procedures and doctors. Heck, the for profit insurance companies have been doing this for me all along - You know, the in-network providers and pre-certifing the proceedure - HMOs, PPOs
4. The current government programs have needed overhauling for a long time. My dad was telling me one of his last Medicare visit stories this past weekend. For a one hour breathing test he has every six months. His out of pocket was $50 something, hospital $160 or 170 and the Dr. bill $2000. The last number he was shocked over as was I.

 

[reefraff]

Yeah but Z what you seem to be glossing over is that SOMEBODY has to pay. If you take it off businesses how will it be paid for?
We already know a big centralized system doesn't work. I think perhaps scraping medicare, medicaid chip etc. and go with a government program that is administered at the county level to cut down on fraud might work but even assuming you could pull that off you still have to deal with the reasons care is so expensive. In the short term there isn't much you can do to control costs other than having the politicians grow a spine and excluding illegal immigrants from any kind of government services period.
With a 9 plus percent unemployment rate it would be nice to drive those people back where they belong to free up some jobs for lawful citizens. Maybe put the billions the government spends on bilingual services towards health care.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3109886
Yeah but Z what you seem to be glossing over is that SOMEBODY has to pay. If you take it off businesses how will it be paid for? .
With the tax dollars from the beneficiaries...
I figured I could get some of the so called true capitalist to buy into this by removing the shackles on business. If the GOP backed it it would be brilliant. However, it would kill for profit businesses where the big PAC money comes from. It's all in who's buttering your bread for politicians... I don't mean voters.