Hillary Clinton

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by m0nk
Oh, and for the people who talk about "flip-flopping", give it a rest already.

So you don't feel that flip-flopping is an issue?
Let me be clear... there is nothing wrong with determining that you were wrong and changing course, and speaking candidly about why you did.
However, when you decide you are wrong, then you should be willing to clearly state why and stand by your decision. The fact that Hillary once voted for the war and now wants to end the war is a whole separate issue for me. The problem I have is that when confronted, the issue gets ducked. To me this speaks volumes about the fortitude that the canidate will have if elected.
I am a complete supporter of the Iraq war and a firm believer that the military should be given the resources they need for as long as they need it until our goals are met yada yada yada. However, I admire John Edwards for the fact that he admits straight out that he made a mistake.
Hillary seems more concerned that she might say something that costs her votes than letting her views be clearly known, allowing voters to elect the best candidate for the position based on the direction that Americans want to go. Instead, she seems more concerned with painting a picture of herself that gets the most votes.
As an American who prefers to vote based on the alignment of a particular candidate's views with my own, I do not feel that Hillary is being as forthright as she can be with her views.
So for me, it's not the flip-flopping so much as it's the way she is handling it.
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by mfp1016
Plus, no offense, but you, crimzy, are obviously a supporter of Hilary. The statements you made will inherently be victim to some level of embellishment; that said, why would you present your opinion and then ask people to discuss her based off your ideas about her and her politics, for all I know you misrepresented her to an extent that even she wouldn't condone. Personally, I'll be voting for Wikipedia, how much more democratic do you want? Then! People will realize the benefits of small government coupled with a laissez faire business environment.
I am not necessarily a supporter of Hillary Clinton. It's early on and I don't know enough about her, or any other candidate, to know who I support. I just posted some things that struck me as I listened to her speak and wanted to get some other views. I'd like to hear from both supporters and opposition to each candidate before I make a decision. I think that we actually have SOME very bright people on this board.
 

clown boy

Active Member
4th NO HILLARY!!! I agree with those who say that they would rather have Castro... I would rather have someone who would take away our freedoms suddenly then someone who would take them away slowly... gradually... almost unnoticeable... {shudder}
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
4th NO HILLARY!!! I agree with those who say that they would rather have Castro... I would rather have someone who would take away our freedoms suddenly then someone who would take them away slowly... gradually... almost unnoticeable... {shudder}
Yet you are a strong Bush supporter!?!?!?!? Thank goodness Bush never wanted to take away anybody's freedoms.
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Uh... no... I admit I WAS a strong Bush supporter... as you know, unfortunately, things have changed...

Good to hear... I finally consider you enlightened.
 

groupergenius

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
Yet you are a strong Bush supporter!?!?!?!? Thank goodness Bush never wanted to take away anybody's freedoms.

What freedoms did Bush take from us...Seriously I would like to know as it may sway my vote in '08.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
Wow, 3 people publicly proclaim that she is crooked yet no one has any real information to back up that allegation. This is the problem with the American voter... uninformed. If she truly is crooked then I'd like to know how.
Ummm to start lets talk about norman shu. Some how this guy a mail man raises over 800,000 dollars donates it to hilary, but she doesn't know anything about this guy. He posts bail and run, a suicide note. Then she says I'm sorry I didn't know I'll give it back.
Either she is incompetent and doesn't deserve to be prez. Or she turned the other way and hoped no one would find out.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
The only good thing about Hilary I can find is she did stick by her man through thick and thin. I will credit this. In her speeches she mentioned her faith has helped carry her at times, yet she won't be candid enough to mention what this faith is....and this is only brought up when in front of a religious crowd.
She has given no view on how she would combat terrorism but has said she would pull out of Iraq....but nothing abouyt what after that.
Her healthcare plan scares the crap out of me....The top 2% will in no way receive the brunt of the tax hike this would require, not to mention what happens to medicine and hospitals in every country that has socialized medicine. I am for a health plan for children, but adults need learn take care of themselves in this country.
she bases her opinions off voter polls. This is scary and shows no convinction. Americans change their mind on actions and courses like they change their underwear. A policy based off of voter perception or desires at the immediate time will never move forward but constantly go in circles. Obama has Hilary in this area as he atleast sticks with what he has said all along.
She also would pander to the united nations far more than needed. I am sorry, this institution has no credibility and is just a global slush fund for countries to make money.The UN cares not for ensuring and bringing peace, stability, and prosperity to the world, but more to line it's pockets.
There is more...but this is what I thought of in about 3 minutes. Basically her policy is pass the buck.....do not be responsible for yourself, and that the government should solve the problems you created....I despise this sort of policy.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
And while I am mentioning it...take notice. Every candidate from the dem party has denounced and or talked badly about the wire tap programs. But has not stated that they would stop them if placed in office...I think this question needs asked at the next debate.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
The only good thing about Hilary I can find is she did stick by her man through thick and thin. I will credit this.
I think you give too much credit here. One could argue that she stuck with her man because not doing so would hurt her political adjenda.
With Hillary, (again, one could argue that) there is always an adjenda. It seems like you have to separate what she says she wants and what she really wants.
 

shogun323

Active Member
No way would I vote for Hilary. I think The book "Dereliction of Duty" paints a good picture of her character.
 

nigerbang

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
So you don't feel that flip-flopping is an issue?
Let me be clear... there is nothing wrong with determining that you were wrong and changing course, and speaking candidly about why you did.
However, when you decide you are wrong, then you should be willing to clearly state why and stand by your decision. The fact that Hillary once voted for the war and now wants to end the war is a whole separate issue for me. The problem I have is that when confronted, the issue gets ducked. To me this speaks volumes about the fortitude that the canidate will have if elected.
I am a complete supporter of the Iraq war and a firm believer that the military should be given the resources they need for as long as they need it until our goals are met yada yada yada. However, I admire John Edwards for the fact that he admits straight out that he made a mistake.
Hillary seems more concerned that she might say something that costs her votes than letting her views be clearly known, allowing voters to elect the best candidate for the position based on the direction that Americans want to go. Instead, she seems more concerned with painting a picture of herself that gets the most votes.
As an American who prefers to vote based on the alignment of a particular candidate's views with my own, I do not feel that Hillary is being as forthright as she can be with her views.
So for me, it's not the flip-flopping so much as it's the way she is handling it.
I see flip flopping as a rather large problem..I am a Republican...I wont vote for Rudy....He has flip-flopped on a few issues that one WOULD be set in..He seems to be playing to whoever will have him...Such as HC...She gave a speech in the south about 3 months ago...I think in AL, or FL...Cant remember...and had the cheesiest fake accent I have ever heard...To me it was a slap in the face..If you cant be who you are in front of others then you dont need to be in public office...
And as far as the "Bill Clinton is the best prez ever" (noone here said it that I remember) My problem wasnt that he was getting busy with a pig monster...It was like mentioned before..He got on Television and LIED to the US...If he would lie to everyone of us and she would be okay with that..That speaks volumes of a persons true charactor
 

lovethesea

Active Member
Darth reminded me of something.......I AM for the healthcare of children and all the rules that follow, but I think that each state seems to be starting that up themselves. Missouri is getting on board soon.
 

mfp1016

Member
So no one is with me on voting for Wikipedia....??? I think its a far better choice then what either party has to offer at this point. Perhaps we should ressurect Andrew Jackson....
"A Republican stands up on capitol hill and says 'I have a shi**y idea' and then a democrat will stand up and say 'I can make it crappier.'" -Lewis Black
Crizmy you have to be a HC supporter, having not mentioned any flaws or other issues than those that you did; meaning you painted only a small part of the picture of which to critique. Arguing with me is fruitless on this matter.
 

lil' tanker

Member
Originally Posted by Jovial
No friggin way. I dont care how bright she is, she's as crooked as they come. Id rather elect Fidel Castro.
I'd third that!!! since Vini already seconded it.
 

reefraff

Active Member
There has been a Bush or Clinton in charge for over 20 years. The two families are even tight. IT IS TIME FOR NEW BLOOD IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
Look at the dozen close friends friends and associates of the Clintons who were convicted in the White Water Scandel. Yep, Bill and Hill were just in the wrong place at the wrong time on that one. Sure. But there are a few other issues.
If you don't think hillarbeast is crooked research "Rose law firm billing records", "Vince Foster suicide" "Clinton Cattle futures trade", "Clinton Travel office firings", "Bimbo Eruption Squad", "Johnny Chung" or "Chinagate" "Marc Rich Pardon", "Hasidic Jews Pardon" "Filegate", "Loral Campaign contributions"
 
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