Hillary Clinton

mike22cha

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
crimzy,i think a quick google search could reveal multitudes of allegation's.Some may be true and others not.But the fact that there is so many negative allegations against her should make most Dems look elsewhere for a candidate to run for President.
Google Haliburton and Iraq
 

tru conch

Active Member
yeah ol halliburton is corrupt.
but i will say this. whenever im back at a major base i do eat well, instead of eating crap ie, MREs and T-rations. so i thank then for the good chow and the logistics they provide.
im not trying to defend them, but they are one of the few organizations that has the support structure to do what they do... logistics/supply
why dont army soldiers haul their own trucks you may ask? oh yeah troop reductions, imposed by bush sr, but cut even deeper by mr. bill clinton.
 

mike22cha

Active Member
I have no problem with Haliburton getting our troops the stuff they need, but looking at how much Haliburton is making off the war troubles me.
But again this is not the thread for this. Maybe another one on Iraq will come up soon, because I'd love to show you guys some stuff.
 

seasalt101

Active Member
Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
I have no problem with Haliburton getting our troops the stuff they need, but looking at how much Haliburton is making off the war troubles me.
But again this is not the thread for this. Maybe another one on Iraq will come up soon, because I'd love to show you guys some stuff.

and those halliburton guys are getting killed too remember...tobin
 

seasalt101

Active Member
yep and as stated numerous times by me anyway as i used to work for halliburton, they are the only company in the world that has the rescources to do it and do it correctly and they have been for the last 3 decades they are number one in the field, and who else could you possibly suggest that could do this, i'd like to know that answer after hearing for a couple of years halliburton bashing...tobin
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by seasalt101
yep and as stated numerous times by me anyway as i used to work for halliburton, they are the only company in the world that has the rescources to do it and do it correctly and they have been for the last 3 decades they are number one in the field, and who else could you possibly suggest that could do this, i'd like to know that answer after hearing for a couple of years halliburton bashing...tobin
This is such a crock of sh--. If no one else could do it then why not make the hiring process open to other bidders. I have seen resources claiming that many of Halliburton's products have been ineffective and that the delays in production have caused countless American deaths. Let's not break our arms patting Halliburton on the back because if you think that this wasn't a couple of former business partners throwing tax-payer money at each other then you are kidding yourself. And if anyone thinks that Halliburton is heroic because their workers are in harms way also, let's not be blind to who's making the big money over there... and it's not the workers.
 

seasalt101

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
This is such a crock of sh--. If no one else could do it then why not make the hiring process open to other bidders. I have seen resources claiming that many of Halliburton's products have been ineffective and that the delays in production have caused countless American deaths. Let's not break our arms patting Halliburton on the back because if you think that this wasn't a couple of former business partners throwing tax-payer money at each other then you are kidding yourself. And if anyone thinks that Halliburton is heroic because their workers are in harms way also, let's not be blind to who's making the big money over there... and it's not the workers.
the war was a mess at the beginning, everyone knows that they were following orders and planned all their convoys with the military, and they make more over there than here, and still if you can even name a company that could pull off a job that big, i would like to see who, sometimes a closed bid is needed when something like this just pops up, i respect your opinions crimzy you know that and i think you are kinda takin it out on hallibrton because of the current administration you think it's favortism i think its only logical to use them...tobin
 

stdreb27

Active Member
crimzy said:

THE WAR

She is in favor of reducing our troops in Iraq and bringing an end to this war. While a lot of people here disagree with this position, it is an absolute necessity for anyone I'd consider voting for.
I've read some people criticizing her for back-tracking after originally supporting the decision to go to war in Iraq. However I'm not sure this is really a flaw. There may be different reasons for her change of viewpoint. (1) She may have simply changed her mind. While this may appear to be waffling, I'd rather have someone who is open enough to realize and correct an error than a president who is so stubborn that they will stick with an incorrect course of action, suffering massive losses for their stubborness. (2) She may believe that we accomplished our objective already. Many people thought we should go to war to remove Saddam from power and to eliminate the possibility of a nuclear program in Iraq. These goals were accomplished early on in the war and, if she believed that this was the intended goal, then there really is no inconsistency.
did you listen to her on sunday sure sounds like she is going to stay there to me.
 

mike22cha

Active Member
Originally Posted by seasalt101
and those halliburton guys are getting killed too remember...tobin
I'm sure they realy give a care about their workers.
 

seasalt101

Active Member
Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
I'm sure they realy give a care about their workers.
they volunteer like the military does, they go to better there families lives, and that they are doing something good, supporting our troops...tobin
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
I've read some people criticizing her for back-tracking after originally supporting the decision to go to war in Iraq. However I'm not sure this is really a flaw. There may be different reasons for her change of viewpoint. (1) She may have simply changed her mind. While this may appear to be waffling, I'd rather have someone who is open enough to realize and correct an error than a president who is so stubborn that they will stick with an incorrect course of action, suffering massive losses for their stubborness. (2) She may believe that we accomplished our objective already. Many people thought we should go to war to remove Saddam from power and to eliminate the possibility of a nuclear program in Iraq. These goals were accomplished early on in the war and, if she believed that this was the intended goal, then there really is no inconsistency.

There is a world of difference between backtracking on your decision because you realize you made a mistake or you believe the objective was completed or whatever, and if you backtracked because it will win you votes.
You said it yourself, you don't know what her motives are for backtracking. If it's one of those things you mentioned, why is it not clear? Perhaps it's because she is backtracking because she knows she can pander to the anti-war crowd that way. If you think about it as a canidate who is trying to be elected (and possibly cares about nothing else), and 68% of Americans disapprove of the Iraq war, you could assume that by being against the war, you can get 68% of the vote...
For some, backtracking is the issue, but for me, it's not that, but rather the motives and circumstances behind it.
A candidate needs to clearly communicate their intentions, their beliefs on the issues, so that the American people can vote on those issues. When we elect a president, we are not only electing a person, but we are also helping to make decisions on the issues by electing the canididate who supports those decisions. I'm bothered by the fact that she seems to obfuscate her views on... well... everything.
John Edwards came right out in an interview when confronted about the change in position over the war, and he said flat out "I made a mistake." I respect that. I am a supporter of the war, but I was greatly impressed by his integrity and fortitude to say that.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
There is a world of difference between backtracking on your decision because you realize you made a mistake or you believe the objective was completed or whatever, and if you backtracked because it will win you votes.
You said it yourself, you don't know what her motives are for backtracking. If it's one of those things you mentioned, why is it not clear? Perhaps it's because she is backtracking because she knows she can pander to the anti-war crowd that way. If you think about it as a canidate who is trying to be elected (and possibly cares about nothing else), and 68% of Americans disapprove of the Iraq war, you could assume that by being against the war, you can get 68% of the vote...
For some, backtracking is the issue, but for me, it's not that, but rather the motives and circumstances behind it.
A candidate needs to clearly communicate their intentions, their beliefs on the issues, so that the American people can vote on those issues. When we elect a president, we are not only electing a person, but we are also helping to make decisions on the issues by electing the canididate who supports those decisions. I'm bothered by the fact that she seems to obfuscate her views on... well... everything.
John Edwards came right out in an interview when confronted about the change in position over the war, and he said flat out "I made a mistake." I respect that. I am a supporter of the war, but I was greatly impressed by his integrity and fortitude to say that.
Sorry I messed up quoting Crimzy, I only wrote the last line. Where I refered to her interview with George S. Where she said that she would probably not "end the war". But would probably stay there.
As for edwards, I really don't like that either, I'd rather have someone who says I made the right decision the first time. And I'm sticking to it.
The real question we must ask is WHY? every democrat has "made a mistake." What was their motivation then, and what has changed now.
Second if they were fooled by Bush, Why weren't they smart enough to figure it out. If they get the wool pulled over their eyes then they really shouldn't be in the most powerful position in the world.
And third now she is saying "well I'm probably not going too" Why is their another change assuming she wins the election.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Good God I actually felt sorry for Hillary after watching Chris Mathews tear her apart before and after the debate tonight. What a letdown, I actually used to like the guy but he is just trying to push an agenda now.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
As for edwards, I really don't like that either, I'd rather have someone who says I made the right decision the first time. And I'm sticking to it.
I absolutely agree. What I'm saying is that assuming that there are always going to be occasions when a change of course is warranted, I respect more the candidates who make clear the reasons why, rather than try to dodge the issue. Every time Hillary dodges the issue of why her position has changed, it suggests that she is changing it for reasons that benefit only herself, and doesn't want to admit it.
On the other hand, it's important to understand a course of action before setting out on it. President Bush told us numerous times in numerous speeches that the war would take a long time, cost lives, resources, dollars. I respect and admire his willingness to accept the judgement of history rather than the judgment of the day, to move forward with what he knows to be morally right. Just for the record, I wish I could vote for him again.
Ergo, one could argue that the change of course being pushed by the democrats (and some republicans) is indicative of failure to truly understand the task at hand before voting on it, something that is in and of itself reprehensible, especially when the fate of a nation - any nation - is at stake.
Hillary loves to talk about how the President gave false information about the war, that he pushed for it. Well if she is the strong leader she claims she would not have let him push her. I don't buy it. Edwards says the same thing. Sure, he doesn't push responsibility back on Bush, but he still claims that he was pushed. Obama does nothing but polish his laurels about how he never voted for it in the first place. FINE. WE GET IT. When are you going to stop telling us that and start talking about what you are going to do about it?
The real question we must ask is WHY? every democrat has "made a mistake." What was their motivation then, and what has changed now.
Second if they were fooled by Bush, Why weren't they smart enough to figure it out. If they get the wool pulled over their eyes then they really shouldn't be in the most powerful position in the world.
It is nice to see that someone else on this planet has the accumen to understand this.

I've been asking myself this same question. I live in a very republican-heavy area of the country, but we have some very staunch dems at work. When I ask them this question in so many words, I just get a kind of blank stare and a "uh... hmmm."
And third now she is saying "well I'm probably not going too" Why is their another change assuming she wins the election.
I submit to you this: We are never going to know what Hillary (or ANY of the canidates to varying degrees) is going to do until she actuall does (or doesn't) do them once in office.
If you really think about it, the only one we can be sure will be maintaining the same position on the war tomorrow or next week or next month or next year is President Bush. To me, that's the real food for thought.
What's really too bad is that we can't have a democratic candidate with the steadfastness of Bush, and Bush running against him/her for a third term. Then we can really have a vote on the issue, not a vote on the salesmanship of a bunch of seemingly empty promises and patronizing pandering.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
What's really too bad is that we can't have a democratic candidate with the steadfastness of Bush, and Bush running against him/her for a third term. Then we can really have a vote on the issue, not a vote on the salesmanship of a bunch of seemingly empty promises and patronizing pandering.
Well, I'd say, the reason they aren't is because they are wrong, know it, but are still trying to userp power from the masses. Thus can not be consistant.
 
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