I got a letter from the democrats.

[aquaknight]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006 http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats#post_3318583
Well I can tell you this Booze is Legal however the DOT finds it in your System say Bye-Bye to your CDL if your a Commercial Driver of anykind. Remember this THC stays in you for 30 days and does effect you for that time even if you do not think it does. Sorry I have seen it way to many times in my life and hate that people say it is a Safe Drug. I take Medication for what is wrong with me and on that list is nothing that hits you like THC like Lung Cancer Throat Cancer other forms of cancer at 6-8X's the rate of Cigarette smoke.
CDL's require a BAC of 0.04 or lower, which isn't much, but isn't absolutely nothing either. Perhaps a corporate driver must follow a company policy with a lower limit, but it's 0.04.

 

[ironeagle2006]

You want to know what .04 BAC is to a normal person. 1-2 Doses of Cough Meds will give you a BAC of .04. Most DOT officers have a simple policy they see any containers in the truck OPEN or CLOSED they will cite you with having an Intoxicating Beverage in a Commercial Vechile. Which is a FELONY in 50 states. Also if a company finds out you had it in your system or Truck they will blackball you so badly that even the lowest Outlaw carrier will not touch you. See the Insurance companies run who gets hired in OTR trucking and iff the Insurance company says you have to go YOUR GONE.

 

[tizzo]

I still don't wear my seat belt... I would, if I didn't HAVE to, but lawmakers took that freedom away in the name of safety. They have implemented helmet laws, which BTW, I think every rider should wear a helmet, but I also think it should be his choice. Carseats are being considered for people up to 80 lbs regardless of age, which would put my sons 15 year old gf, in a booster... AND her mom!
I need a permit for a conceal carry, and I have to drive at certain speeds... All this in the name of safety.
And now these same lawmakers are saying it should be ok to get high... Because california has a crappy accountant.
It's ridiculous! Every freedom they take away from me or my family in the name of safety already makes me nauseous! And then to turn around and allow this? Really? What's the logic?
I don't care if it's legal or not...
People who smoke the crap, I don't care what they wanna do, but it's not logical to legalize it...
Ok, I'm done.

 

[socal57che]

Hi Tizz!!

 

[reefraff]

It is crazy when you think about it. Seatbelts to protect you from yourself, Helmets, all the anti smoking crap then make a mind altering substance (which also screws up your lungs if you smoke a lot) legal. At least with booze you have control over your state of mind. With drugs you're high or you're not. Of course like I said upthread, the drug trade causes more harm than MJ itself so......

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizzo http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats/20#post_3318923
I still don't wear my seat belt... I would, if I didn't HAVE to, but lawmakers took that freedom away in the name of safety. They have implemented helmet laws, which BTW, I think every rider should wear a helmet, but I also think it should be his choice. Carseats are being considered for people up to 80 lbs regardless of age, which would put my sons 15 year old gf, in a booster... AND her mom!
I need a permit for a conceal carry, and I have to drive at certain speeds... All this in the name of safety.
And now these same lawmakers are saying it should be ok to get high... Because california has a crappy accountant.
It's ridiculous! Every freedom they take away from me or my family in the name of safety already makes me nauseous! And then to turn around and allow this? Really? What's the logic?
I don't care if it's legal or not...
People who smoke the crap, I don't care what they wanna do, but it's not logical to legalize it...
Ok, I'm done.
in texas they're making kids use booster seats till they're taller than 4'9". Or till they're like 12.

 

[smartorl]

Here in Florida, motorcycle riders can choose whether or not to wear a helmet. However, I can get a ticket for not having a seat belt on! Seriously crazy!

 

[theclemsonkid]

First of all let me start this by saying that I have never actually smoked pot. So I'm by no means a smoker who wants it legal for my own good.
Here are my reasons I feel like pot should be legalized...
1. It is the most lucrative cash crop in the United States, yet it's not taxed one red cent. There are an estimated 25 million regular pot smokers in the U.S, and another 15 million occasional tokers. So that means about 13% of the general population spend money every year on pot (an estimated $35.8 billion annually) that puts money in the pockets of farmers, producers, and dealers; yet the actual country doesn't benefit at all. In fact, the country spends $9 billion a year fighting the "war on drugs" (the marijuana share only) and an incredible $1.3 billion jailing folks who are in the clink for possession. We're talking like the guy who gets pulled over and has a bag of weed in the car for personal use, not the cartel kingpin.
So if you add all that up, the country spends over $10 billion fighting the "problem", and loses out on (assuming we could tax it around 20%) almost $8 billion in revenues. And that's just counting the amount of people who already smoke. If you legalize it, I'm guessing more would jump on the hemp wagon. So legalizing pot would more or less inject $20 billion dollars (or more) into the economy. I know $20 billion doesn't sound like a lot when Daddy Warbucks Obama is spending trillions, but it's still money we could use.
2. Much like prohibition, making pot illegal takes it out of the hands of large corporations are forces it into the back alley. When you force things into the back alley, you get all the lovely crime and corruption that goes with it. How do you think the drugs cartels would do if they had to compete with someone walking into the grocery store and buying it legally for less? You can say goodbye to the drugs cartels that run pot. I don't buy the argument that "if you legalize it, then people will just grow it in their back yard and never buy it anyways." You could say the same thing about tobacco, and last I checked, R.J. Reynolds is doing alright for themselves. Once it was legal, you'd have a few major players that could mass produce, and they would stabalize the market value, which would reduce the price from what you pay from your local dealer. So not only would the price go down, but you could get it legally and pay taxes on it. It's win-win.
3. The effects of pot are a lot less dangerous than a lot of the legal alternatives. If I had the choice of seeing someone get in a car stoned, or wasted from slamming liquor all night, i'll take the former each and every time. Now I'm not saying that alcohol OR pot are safe, because they aren't. I'm just saying apples to apples, if something like alcohol is legal, then pot should be as well.
4. People who are high are extremely entertaining. Just my honest opinion

 

[reefraff]

Using tax revenue as the justification for legalizing it reveals how far the moral fiber of our country has dropped the last 20 or 30 years. Once upon a time the government was more interested in the safety and well being of the citizens than increasing tax revenues.
That being said Clemson makes good points except for number 4. I find most stoners to be more annoying than entertaining. Not really amused by most drunk either although some can be damn funny.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats/20#post_3319048
Using tax revenue as the justification for legalizing it reveals how far the moral fiber of our country has dropped the last 20 or 30 years. Once upon a time the government was more interested in the safety and well being of the citizens than increasing tax revenues.
That being said Clemson makes good points except for number 4. I find most stoners to be more annoying than entertaining. Not really amused by most drunk either although some can be damn funny.
I'm on board with you there about the moral ambiguity of this country. I just think that you have to decide the morals vs. the realistic expectations. People have been using pot for thousands of years (you could say the same about opium and other drugs too) and whether you agree with it or not, it's gonna be around sadly...

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats/20#post_3319055
I'm on board with you there about the moral ambiguity of this country. I just think that you have to decide the morals vs. the realistic expectations. People have been using pot for thousands of years (you could say the same about opium and other drugs too) and whether you agree with it or not, it's gonna be around sadly...
Yeah, I think legalizing makes sense on a lot of levels, just can't believe we now have the same government that has spent billions trying to convince up weed is bad now justifying legalizing it because they are broke.

 

[dragonzim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats#post_3318577
You need tio find a better class of friends

I resent that because you make it seem like I hang out with a bunch of dirtbags, when nothing could be further from the truth. I count, among my pot smoking friends, teachers, doctors, lawyers, project managers, computer programmers, accountants and some other high paying high power career people.

 

[aquaknight]

In addition, to also disagreeing with Clem's #4 point, the last part of #3 is also wrong. I can enjoy some wine or a beer or two with dinner, and there would be zero effects from it. There is no middleground as reef pointed out with any drug, you simply become stoned/high/whatever.
As far as revenue from taxes, the amount pot generates annual, $35.8b is strictly because it's illegal and being so drives the price up. Legalizing pot means the retail price would plummet, and pot sales would no where remotely equal $35.8b. This is also a very simple product. You aren't brewing beer, aging wine, or cutting up the powdery stuff. I am 100% sure there is no way the government could outlaw growing it home. If not simply because the government can't enforce the law, from people wanting to make their own legal product.
Look at homebrewing. People homebrew beer because they find their product superior to whats available on the shelves. You think people who consume pot wouldn't want the same rights? Pot users will say there's a big difference among different types of pot. No one thinks that they'd rather grow their own types, rather then buy the lowest grade gov't stuff?

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaKnight http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats/20#post_3319096
In addition, to also disagreeing with Clem's #4 point, the last part of #3 is also wrong. I can enjoy some wine or a beer or two with dinner, and there would be zero effects from it. There is no middleground as reef pointed out with any drug, you simply become stoned/high/whatever.
As far as revenue from taxes, the amount pot generates annual, $35.8b is strictly because it's illegal and being so drives the price up. Legalizing pot means the retail price would plummet, and pot sales would no where remotely equal $35.8b. This is also a very simple product. You aren't brewing beer, aging wine, or cutting up the powdery stuff. I am 100% sure there is no way the government could outlaw growing it home. If not simply because the government can't enforce the law, from people wanting to make their own legal product.
Look at homebrewing. People homebrew beer because they find their product superior to whats available on the shelves. You think people who consume pot wouldn't want the same rights? Pot users will say there's a big difference among different types of pot. No one thinks that they'd rather grow their own types, rather then buy the lowest grade gov't stuff?
You are right about the price of pot dropping. However, I have to imagine the amount of people who would start to smoke, or smoke again simply because they could, would make up a lot of the difference in lost revenue from the price drop alone.
And how can you say having a beer or glass of wine has no effect on you whatsoever? Unless you have a magical body that somehow metabolizes different than every other human out there, you are somewhat impaired regardless of how much you have. I imagine one glass of wine has about the same effect and one or two hits of pot. It's the people who choose to smoke an entire joint, or drink an entire bottle of wine who are the problem.
And I think you grossly underestimate the laziness of the average American. You use home brewing as an example. Sure, there are a very small group of people who will make their own beer, but when you compare that to the amount that go out through the bars and your local grocers cooler, it's not even close to being a usable argument. You could argue the same about food preparation, yet McDonalds will always be a billion dollar company. Given the choice, the lazy American will always choose to have someone do it for them...
Especially something as time consuming as growing your own pot...

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats/20#post_3319091
I resent that because you make it seem like I hang out with a bunch of dirtbags, when nothing could be further from the truth. I count, among my pot smoking friends, teachers, doctors, lawyers, project managers, computer programmers, accountants and some other high paying high power career people.
Teachers? Guess that explains the crappy performance of our schools

I guess the sarcastic smilies are lost on you??? I was just kidding.
But as long as you bring it up there are dirtbags in every class and occupation. I don't measure the worth of someone by the size of their wallet or a university diploma. (I think I stole that from a movie)
I have had friends who toked it up but I typically don't hang out with people who break the law. Doesn't mean I think they are dirtbags, it means I myself don't break the law and don't want to get swept up with those who do should they be busted.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats/20#post_3319101
You are right about the price of pot dropping. However, I have to imagine the amount of people who would start to smoke, or smoke again simply because they could, would make up a lot of the difference in lost revenue from the price drop alone.
And how can you say having a beer or glass of wine has no effect on you whatsoever? Unless you have a magical body that somehow metabolizes different than every other human out there, you are somewhat impaired regardless of how much you have. I imagine one glass of wine has about the same effect and one or two hits of pot. It's the people who choose to smoke an entire joint, or drink an entire bottle of wine who are the problem.
And I think you grossly underestimate the laziness of the average American. You use home brewing as an example. Sure, there are a very small group of people who will make their own beer, but when you compare that to the amount that go out through the bars and your local grocers cooler, it's not even close to being a usable argument. You could argue the same about food preparation, yet McDonalds will always be a billion dollar company. Given the choice, the lazy American will always choose to have someone do it for them...
Especially something as time consuming as growing your own pot...
Most of the pro pot studies claim legalization wont lead to any significant increase in use. Again we are talking PRO POT people. I am sure there would be some increase but not sure how much it would effect price, the taxes will take care of that. Thing is we have to trust the government to come up with a tax structure that will make it expensive enough to somewhat discourage excessive use while at the same time keeping the product at a low enough price to drive the criminal element from the trade.
So we will see the left want to tax the hell out of it to fund their feel good social programs and the right want to tax the hell out of it so people can't afford to smoke it. I am not optimistic that it will work out well.

 

[socal57che]

Just speaking of Ca legalizing it for now, how many thousands of people will start buying it while on vacation and take it home with them. How many thousands of people will begin transporting it across state lines where there will be a market for the new cheap grass. We could be creating a bunch of smugglers out of casual users who just want to make a quick buck. It's going to cost a TON of money in law enforcement efforts for all of California's neighboring states.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by socal57che http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats/20#post_3319184
Just speaking of Ca legalizing it for now, how many thousands of people will start buying it while on vacation and take it home with them. How many thousands of people will begin transporting it across state lines where there will be a market for the new cheap grass. We could be creating a bunch of smugglers out of casual users who just want to make a quick buck. It's going to cost a TON of money in law enforcement efforts for all of California's neighboring states.
You don't REALLY think that 1) Californians will vote in favor of the amendment and 2) if they did the feds wont have an injunction slapped on them faster than you can say "don't bogart that joint my friend" do you?
There aint no way the Feds will allow a state to do something that would take any measure of their power away. And for all the talk of California crazies they aren't all wacko left. You also have to figure the last thing some of those in the "industry" want is for it to be legalized less their little grow operation gets eclipsed by a major corporate grower once it's legal. Most people understand the futility of trying to pass legalization at the state level. I will be really surprised if it passes.

 

[socal57che]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats/20#post_3319199
You don't REALLY think that 1) Californians will vote in favor of the amendment and 2) if they did the feds wont have an injunction slapped on them faster than you can say "don't bogart that joint my friend" do you?
There aint no way the Feds will allow a state to do something that would take any measure of their power away. And for all the talk of California crazies they aren't all wacko left. You also have to figure the last thing some of those in the "industry" want is for it to be legalized less their little grow operation gets eclipsed by a major corporate grower once it's legal. Most people understand the futility of trying to pass legalization at the state level. I will be really surprised if it passes.
Nobody actually thought it would make the ballot either. Not to mention having the democratic party actually send out propaganda supporting it. Remember, this is the state that gave us the MJ vending machines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbKJVltf1Uw

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by socal57che http:///forum/thread/381128/i-got-a-letter-from-the-democrats/20#post_3319206
Nobody actually thought it would make the ballot either. Not to mention having the democratic party actually send out propaganda supporting it. Remember, this is the state that gave us the MJ vending machines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbKJVltf1Uw
Colorado passed medical MJ and things got crazy really fast. Even the Democrats have worked hard to reign in the abuses. You should hear the stoners whining about that. Pretty sensible regulations too, the prescribing doctor can't work for the "despensery" etc.