I need help with low PH ASAP

bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstdv8 http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap#post_3300976
That's what I was thinking, excess CO2 is only excess if its more than the O2 I thought, so if you increase the O2 (by mixing water with air, surface aggitiation ect. then you don't have excess anymore.
At least that was always my mindset, I could be totally wrong.
I do know that PH goes up when you point the powerheads at the surface of the water which causes waves which cause more surface area on the water, which is where the water gets it's O2 from.
O2 and CO2 levels in your water are independent. The PH could go up when you point the powerheads in a position that maximizes gas exchange because it reduces CO2, it has nothing to do with the O2 level as far as I know.
 
Typical O2 levels in a tank are around 4500ppm up to 5000ppm of O2. It rarely gets lower because of how easily O2 dissolves in water from the atmosphere. Increasing O2 levels from 4500ppm to 5000ppm has no effect on PH at all.
 
CO2 on the other hand forms Carbonic acid when mixed with seawater. My old feable mind forgets the average CO2 dissolved in an average reef tank but I think it's below 100ppm. Dissolved CO2 has a PROFOUND effect on PH levels while I believe dissolved O2 has a negligible effect.
 
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
 
 
So I'm confused..Let’s start again.

I have low PH 7.8 to raise PH I am told to increase the aeration (Power head agitating the surface water)
So if I understand it, CO2 is too much in my tank...Will agitating the surface of the water, increasing the oxygen help at all to counter act the CO2?
Also:
I have new saltwater mixed up, but for some reason it’s cloudy, it never was before and the salt mix is from the same bucket. I’m not sure if I should use it. It is a new bucket, I have used it only once prior to this.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap/20#post_3301079
Hi,
 
 
So I'm confused..Let’s start again.

I have low PH 7.8 to raise PH I am told to increase the aeration (Power head agitating the surface water)
So if I understand it, CO2 is too much in my tank...Will agitating the surface of the water, increasing the oxygen help at all to counter act the CO2?
Also:
I have new saltwater mixed up, but for some reason it’s cloudy, it never was before and the salt mix is from the same bucket. I’m not sure if I should use it. It is a new bucket, I have used it only once prior to this.
Agitating the surface of the water will allow excess CO2 to escape and raise your PH. IMO the oxygen content is important but not related to your PH level.
 
If you slowly poured the salt mix into cold water while vigerously stirring the water then I wouldn't be concerned about it being cloudy. Unless it's still cloudy the next day, that could indicate a problem.
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap/20#post_3301079
Hi,
 
 
So I'm confused..Let’s start again.

I have low PH 7.8 to raise PH I am told to increase the aeration (Power head agitating the surface water)
So if I understand it, CO2 is too much in my tank...Will agitating the surface of the water, increasing the oxygen help at all to counter act the CO2?
Also:
I have new saltwater mixed up, but for some reason it’s cloudy, it never was before and the salt mix is from the same bucket. I’m not sure if I should use it. It is a new bucket, I have used it only once prior to this.
"IF" I understand where Bang is coming from.............
 
All he is saying is that, the level of O2 never changes. Just the level of CO2. Which means, by agitating the surface of the water, your not adding any more O2 to the tank. Your just allowing more of the CO2 to escape giving you the perception that your adding O2 to the water, when in reality all your doing is allowing the CO2 to escape.
 
 
By the way, I tried to find your skimmer and I couldn't find an air stone powered skimmer by Coralife?
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
ok, I always thought it was letting more oxeygen in not getting CO2 out. I guess either way if it works that's the first place to start.
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap#post_3300802
 
The first step in solving a low pH problem is to determine why it exists in the first place. Some possibilities include:
[list type=decimal]
[*]
 
[list type=decimal]
[*]
A calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactor (CaCO3/CO2 reactor) is in use on the aquarium.
[*]
The aquarium has low alkalinity.
[*]
The aquarium has more CO2 in it than the surrounding air due to inadequate aeration. Don't be fooled into thinking that an aquarium must have adequate aeration because its water is very turbulent. Equilibrating carbon dioxide is MUCH harder than simply providing adequate oxygen. There would be NO change in the pH between day and night if equilibration of carbon dioxide were perfect. Since most aquaria have lower pH during the night, they also are demonstrating less than complete aeration.
The aquarium has excess CO2 in it because the air in the home that it is being equilibrated with contains excess CO2.
The aquarium is still cycling, and has excess acid being produced from the nitrogen cycle and degradation of organics to CO2.
[/list type=decimal]
[/list type=decimal]
 
Keep this info
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posiden http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap/20#post_3301108
 
"IF" I understand where Bang is coming from.............
 
All he is saying is that, the level of O2 never changes. Just the level of CO2. Which means, by agitating the surface of the water, your not adding any more O2 to the tank. Your just allowing more of the CO2 to escape giving you the perception that your adding O2 to the water, when in reality all your doing is allowing the CO2 to escape.
 
 
By the way, I tried to find your skimmer and I couldn't find an air stone powered skimmer by Coralife?
 
LOL...That's because the coralife 250 is not an air stone powered skimmer. It is powered by a huge power head, I don't know the size but it is bigger than any power head I ever had. Your confusing another skimmer...I had a little air powered skimmer at one time and had I had a wood air stone from that, it was still in the blister pack so it was technically new. It didn't work to say the least.
 
Bang Guy:
I checked this morning and it is much clear although not perfect. The water was room temperature when I added the salt, the little power head I use for stirring was in there and working. Others have mentioned clouded water from Instant Ocean, what weirderd me out was that the first batch was crystal clear from this bucket of salt and now it is cloudy on the second batch.
 
I have to do my water tests today, so I don't know what the PH is at the moment. I am going to take some tests before the water change and after. My skimmer wet skimmed 3gs yesterday before I realized it, so my SG dropped a point because my ATO replaced the water loss with fresh RO water. I plan to replace the salt enough in the water change to bring it back up.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap#post_3300811
 
Would not the addition of oxygen to the tank counteract the pH-lowering effects of carbon dioxide?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posiden http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap/20#post_3301108
 
"IF" I understand where Bang is coming from.............
 
All he is saying is that, the level of O2 never changes. Just the level of CO2. Which means, by agitating the surface of the water, your not adding any more O2 to the tank. Your just allowing more of the CO2 to escape giving you the perception that your adding O2 to the water, when in reality all your doing is allowing the CO2 to escape.
 
 
By the way, I tried to find your skimmer and I couldn't find an air stone powered skimmer by Coralife?
 
This is where I was going with my question to Bang. If you drive off the CO2 doesn't something have to fill the void left by it? And if you are using a skimmer or surface agitation, providing the air outside the tank is not high in CO2, wouldn't the O2 take its place? And because you have added the O2 effectively reducing the CO2, isn't that counteracting the CO2?
 
 
S

smartorl

Guest
Just wondering........is there any possible correlation between the nitrate remover? A local reefer claimed to have "cheated" using the nitrate remover and had problems with the PH. The only thing he had done differently was that product.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap/20#post_3301148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posiden http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap/20#post_3301108
 
"IF" I understand where Bang is coming from.............
 
All he is saying is that, the level of O2 never changes. Just the level of CO2. Which means, by agitating the surface of the water, your not adding any more O2 to the tank. Your just allowing more of the CO2 to escape giving you the perception that your adding O2 to the water, when in reality all your doing is allowing the CO2 to escape.
 
 
By the way, I tried to find your skimmer and I couldn't find an air stone powered skimmer by Coralife?
 
This is where I was going with my question to Bang. If you drive off the CO2 doesn't something have to fill the void left by it? And if you are using a skimmer or surface agitation, providing the air outside the tank is not high in CO2, wouldn't the O2 take its place? And because you have added the O2 effectively reducing the CO2, isn't that counteracting the CO2?
 
When excess CO2 is blown off by a skimmer or surface agitation nothing takes its place. If the tank is not at oxygen equilibrium then more O2 would probably enter the tank but that's not usually the case. It's just as likely that O2 would also get blown off at the same time as CO2 if the algae is working overtime and have supersaturated the water with oxygen. The two gas levels are independent, lowering one does not raise the other. The O2 level in a tank is dependent on salinity and temperature and has nothing to do with the O2 level.
 
 
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap/20#post_3301146
 
 
Bang Guy:
I checked this morning and it is much clear although not perfect. The water was room temperature when I added the salt, the little power head I use for stirring was in there and working. Others have mentioned clouded water from Instant Ocean, what weirderd me out was that the first batch was crystal clear from this bucket of salt and now it is cloudy on the second batch.
 
 
Room temp is OK, just make sure it's not warm water.
 
A powerhead is OK to keep the water stirred but most powerheads are not strong enough to stir the water enough when you're mixing the salt in. It really should be stirred hard when adding the salt to the water. I used to use a plastic stirrer hooked up to my high speed drill. Ideally none of the salt mix should be able to settle on the bottom of the container.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap/20#post_3301231
 
Hi,
 
AAHHH the secret...Thank you, I will do this and see what happens for the next batch. I assume my saltwater mix is good to use. I have been lazy and haven't done my water change yet, first night back at work last night after vacation and I don't want to do a thing today.
 
Just as background information... when salt mix settles in the bottom of the mixing container the trace elements have a chance to concentrate and this causes Calcium carbonate to precipitate. This is what you see as cloudy water. Eventually the particles clump and fall out of solution but they will never redissolve and the result is water with a slightly lower Calcium and Alkalinity. You should also rinse out all of this precipitation before making a new batch of salt.
 
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap/20#post_3301239
 
Just as background information... when salt mix settles in the bottom of the mixing container the trace elements have a chance to concentrate and this causes Calcium carbonate to precipitate. This is what you see as cloudy water. Eventually the particles clump and fall out of solution but they will never redissolve and the result is water with a slightly lower Calcium and Alkalinity. You should also rinse out all of this precipitation before making a new batch of salt.
 
Hi,
 
Will do...is what I have already mixed alright to use, or should I dump it and make more? I have been doing weekly water changes.
 
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Yeah I'd use it Flower.....remember I had some mix up cloudy....I used it and got all scared cause the tank looked a little cloudy too...well within an hour or so it was clear again
 
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
 
I did, thanks everyone. Stupid me forgot to turn off the ATO while I removed old water and now my SG reads 1.022/1.023...I added some saltwater to the top off to bring it back up slow. I need an icon: shaking my head in disbelief at my own stupidity.
 
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