I need help with my lights

[monsinour]

electric stuff that runs hot to the touch with a built in heat sink scare me. I wouldnt trust a hot ballast any more than I would trust a trigger in a reef tank, LOL. I said they hold a charge and due to the amps on and in them, there is a reason why people are telling you to toss them as opposed to fixing them. If all that is differnent is the outlets, I bet a simple cut and swap and tape could alliviate the problem. If I had a sodering iron I would offer to do this for you, but I dont have one. Just be sure that the new ballast does not run hot. If its hot enough to fry and egg on, its hot enough to make sense and throw it out.
edit : checkign the ground. Is the outlet you are plugging into a 3 prong outlet? Is the cord that is being plugged in a 3 prong outlet? Do you have an outlet tester?
I would imagine the first 2 are yes and the last one no. At homerdepot they have outlet testers that can tell you if they are wired up in phase, out of phase, and whether or not the ground is actually connected. They are relatively cheap, like $10 I think. But I would ask around if you have any electrician friends who may already have one and borrow it. All you have to do Is plug it in and look at what indicator lights light up.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317027
electric stuff that runs hot to the touch with a built in heat sink scare me. I wouldnt trust a hot ballast any more than I would trust a trigger in a reef tank, LOL. I said they hold a charge and due to the amps on and in them, there is a reason why people are telling you to toss them as opposed to fixing them. If all that is differnent is the outlets, I bet a simple cut and swap and tape could alliviate the problem. If I had a sodering iron I would offer to do this for you, but I dont have one. Just be sure that the new ballast does not run hot. If its hot enough to fry and egg on, its hot enough to make sense and throw it out.

Its not that hot....I'm sure it can cook an egg if I left it there for a short bit. I can't hold my hand on it for very long but it isn't as hot as a lit lightbulb. I do not have tender hands. A child could not touch it I'm sure. The other ballast runs pretty warm but I can keep my hand on that all day.
I'm with you on electric stuff...it's dangerous. You mentioned a sodering iron...

for what? On something like a ballast I don't want to cut and tape anything. I might take it to a person who works on that kind of thing, but me, do it myself...no.

 

[monsinour]

when changin out plugs on somethig like this, I wouldnt feel comforatable with a "twist and tape" connection. I would want to use some solder and soldering iron to make the connection more secure. Then use electical tape over the connection for insulation.
"twist and tape" = think of a twist tie on a loaf of bread. You wrap the wire around the bag and twist it to seal the bag. Is that secure? Twisting the wire, and then soldering it, makes the connection more secure.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317044
when changin out plugs on somethig like this, I wouldnt feel comforatable with a "twist and tape" connection. I would want to use some solder and soldering iron to make the connection more secure. Then use electical tape over the connection for insulation.
"twist and tape" = think of a twist tie on a loaf of bread. You wrap the wire around the bag and twist it to seal the bag. Is that secure? Twisting the wire, and then soldering it, makes the connection more secure.
What kind of solder would you recommend for a situation like this?
Curious which component would hold a charge after the plug was pulled...would that be the capacitor?

 

[monsinour]

Yea, capacitors are the ones that hold charges. They are typically round cyllindrical in shape and have a silver top with some kind of mark on it. Touching the silver top and a ground of some kind = ouch. Then again, If I were doing the work, I would have a grounding strap on already so I would be grounded and if I were to accidentally touch the top of a capacitor, ouch already.
Type of solder, well I am not really sure. It would have to be something that would be resistant to corrosion as electrical tape around the connection is not air tight and moisture would get in there. Maybe use tape, and then the heat shrink tubes as well, just for the added safety.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317054
Yea, capacitors are the ones that hold charges. They are typically round cyllindrical in shape and have a silver top with some kind of mark on it. Touching the silver top and a ground of some kind = ouch. Then again, If I were doing the work, I would have a grounding strap on already so I would be grounded and if I were to accidentally touch the top of a capacitor, ouch already.
Type of solder, well I am not really sure. It would have to be something that would be resistant to corrosion as electrical tape around the connection is not air tight and moisture would get in there. Maybe use tape, and then the heat shrink tubes as well, just for the added safety.
That would work, heat shrink is always a good idea. I'm not sure on flowers ballas or not but I do know that somtimes they come with the type that have the male quick disconnect connections on them. You know, the kind that allow for the wires to just plug and unplug. Other than the bulb itself being bad than I would suspect that a new capacitor would probably all that is needed to fix up her old ballasts. I don't see 2 different coils going out that quickly. But not sure why they would get so hot either. Then again, it's a ballast and some ballasts can and do get hot.
Still be curious to see how hot this new one runs.

 

[monsinour]

well, not firing cold does lead to a cap problem as it sounds like the cap hasnt had time to build up the needed charge. But still, these ballasts have heat sinks built into them. they should get warm, but not so hot you can fry an egg on one. I have been in car stereo for quite a while and the amplifiers there have external heat sinks like these ballasts. Proper installation should have the "fins" on these going up and down so that airflow goes up the fins and removes the heat that way. installing them laying flat would trap the heat. take for example this pic i found of a ballast with the external heat sink:

You can see the fins going left to right in the picture which is how the manufacturer wants you to install it that way due to the feet on it. This would be bad for the unit as this will trap the heat. If you rotate the picture 90 degrees either way, the fins go up and down instead of side to side. This will allow proper airflow over the fins and remove much of the heat. Does this make sense?
So, as in car stereo, when an amplifier is subjected to prolonged excessive heat due to improper installation, they tend to degrade in quality and then not work at all. I would imagine that the lighting ballasts would be the same way. It would be much worse if there were moving parts inside these things too.

 

[2quills]

Cool, yeah I'm farmiliar with heat sink...i'll be using some in the led array that i'll be building for my tank.
I understand the excessive heat where as the amplifier is concerned. I just wasn't aware that there is an amplifier in a metal halide ballast.
The capacitor thing I understand. I usually change at least one on a daily basis in a/c systems. I've taken a couple of shocks off of a 35-uf's before...it certainly is startling, but nothing that actually hurt or killed me yet (knock on wood).

 

[monsinour]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317076
Cool, yeah I'm farmiliar with heat sink...i'll be using some in the led array that i'll be building for my tank.
I understand the excessive heat where as the amplifier is concerned. I just wasn't aware that there is an amplifier in a metal halide ballast.
The capacitor thing I understand. I usually change at least one on a daily basis in a/c systems. I've taken a couple of shocks off of a 35-uf's before...it certainly is startling, but nothing that actually hurt or killed me yet (knock on wood).
I was using the amplifier as an example for heat sinks. I do not know whats in a ballast as I havent taken whats on my lights apart yet. However, anything that generates heat with electricity that has a heat sink should be installed correctly to help disipate the heat. If I were to make an LED light to hang over my tank, it would look something like this :

The pink is the heat sink, the blue is the piece that holds the leds and wiring, and the white circles are the leds themeselves.

 

[flower]

LOL...I just want a light that works and won't scare me to death.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317081
I was using the amplifier as an example for heat sinks. I do not know whats in a ballast as I havent taken whats on my lights apart yet. However, anything that generates heat with electricity that has a heat sink should be installed correctly to help disipate the heat. If I were to make an LED light to hang over my tank, it would look something like this :

The pink is the heat sink, the blue is the piece that holds the leds and wiring, and the white circles are the leds themeselves.
Yeah that's typically what most DIY rigs will look like and mine will not be much different. An appropriately sized heat sink shouldn't get excessively hot, but if you're using an undersized one it will. I see alot of guys installing fans on the top to get some airflow blowing across them and for all intensive purposes I shall do the same. The cooler you can keep the LED's the longer they will last.
I think all that is in, Flowers ballast is a transformer coil and a capacitor. She's told us that she has the type of bulbs that have the built in ignition so that should be all there is to it other than the necissary wiring. I do know that in the majority of the plug and play style fixtures that have metal halides they do get quite hot. We know they install fans in them for the heat just as they do with T5 systems usually. Infact IceCap for instance goes so far as to install an active cooling system in their Reef Illuminations M/H fixture but not in the T5 version. Ofcorse alot of this has to do with the hotter bulbs I'm sure.
I know that the 24v transformers that I'm farmiliar with get pretty hot themselves. But anything hotter than normal and they usually burn out pretty quick.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317098

LOL...I just want a light that works and won't scare me to death.
Just as well, we hope that you get it too lol.

 

[meowzer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317107
Just as well, we hope that you get it too lol.
Me too Flower.....nothing worse then that uneasy feeling about a piece of equipment
(especially elecctrical)

 

[flower]

I have not heard from Shawn all day...it's not like him. Is anyone else concerned?

 

[meowzer]

I think sometimes he works odd hours.....I can't remember if it was him or not, but I thought he may be training people

 

[2quills]

Yeah, I think he's been puting in alot of O/T lately...

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317113
Yeah, I think he's been puting in alot of O/T lately...

I asked him in a PM about out of pocket expenses..I hope I didn't get him kicked off the site. Worse I would hate to think something was wrong ...him sick the kids sick..I'm a worrier I know..I know.
He posts from his computer at work...he did say he was having trouble with his battery and using his daughters.

 

[acrylic51]

It's been a real winner of a day.....First trailer I move at work today loaded to the gills with freight....45,000lbs and I dropped my IPhone and destroyed it!!!!!

Funny thing is it didn't smash the phone at all....Not even a mark.....both sets of tires on the trailer up over the phone....That's why I was silent all day!!!!! but I'm back!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317111

I have not heard from Shawn all day...it's not like him. Is anyone else concerned?

 

[meowzer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380961/i-need-help-with-my-lights/40#post_3317123
It's been a real winner of a day.....First trailer I move at work today loaded to the gills with freight....45,000lbs and I dropped my IPhone and destroyed it!!!!!

Funny thing is it didn't smash the phone at all....Not even a mark.....both sets of tires on the trailer up over the phone....That's why I was silent all day!!!!! but I'm back!!!!!
Sorry to hear about your phone....but glad you are ok....LOL

 

[monsinour]

LOL, its funny what we think will happen when 45K pounds runs over things and then what actually happens.
And no, I cant fix runned over phones.