darthtang aw
Active Member
The NRA or GOA are lobbying groups...are the bad?
I think I am going to throw up.
- Thread starter darthtang aw
- Start date
spanko
Active Member
Darth my friend you are looking at this from the standpoint that the gubment has the authority to be involved in a lot of stuff that I don't agree they should be into.
So yeah I can talk to my congressman
Congressman are elected officials, not paid off hacks (or should not be paid off hacks anyway)
The feds should be sticking to the enumerated powers of the constitution which in my mind would have them convening a congress oh I don't know for about maybe 4 weeks a year. The rest of the time they could be back working a regular job and hoping what the do for the 4 weeks in DC doesn't F things up for them too badly.
Then if the corporatists want to play their lobbying games at a state level let them, much easier for you and I as voters to corral them in before they do too much harm, or get the hell away from them.
So yeah I can talk to my congressman
Congressman are elected officials, not paid off hacks (or should not be paid off hacks anyway)
The feds should be sticking to the enumerated powers of the constitution which in my mind would have them convening a congress oh I don't know for about maybe 4 weeks a year. The rest of the time they could be back working a regular job and hoping what the do for the 4 weeks in DC doesn't F things up for them too badly.
Then if the corporatists want to play their lobbying games at a state level let them, much easier for you and I as voters to corral them in before they do too much harm, or get the hell away from them.
slice
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3372910
Darth my friend you are looking at this from the standpoint that the gubment has the authority to be involved in a lot of stuff that I don't agree they should be into. Exactly!
So yeah I can talk to my congressman
Congressman are elected officials, not paid off hacks (or should not be paid off hacks anyway)
The feds should be sticking to the enumerated powers of the constitution which in my mind would have them convening a congress oh I don't know for about maybe 4 weeks a year. The rest of the time they could be back working a regular job and hoping what the do for the 4 weeks in DC doesn't F things up for them too badly.
^This^ would be better than term limits
Then if the corporatists want to play their lobbying games at a state level let them, much easier for you and I as voters to corral them in before they do too much harm, or get the hell away from them.
Absolutely! repeal the 17th!
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3372910
Darth my friend you are looking at this from the standpoint that the gubment has the authority to be involved in a lot of stuff that I don't agree they should be into. Exactly!
So yeah I can talk to my congressman
Congressman are elected officials, not paid off hacks (or should not be paid off hacks anyway)
The feds should be sticking to the enumerated powers of the constitution which in my mind would have them convening a congress oh I don't know for about maybe 4 weeks a year. The rest of the time they could be back working a regular job and hoping what the do for the 4 weeks in DC doesn't F things up for them too badly.
^This^ would be better than term limits
Then if the corporatists want to play their lobbying games at a state level let them, much easier for you and I as voters to corral them in before they do too much harm, or get the hell away from them.
Absolutely! repeal the 17th!
stdreb27
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up#post_3372875
Lobbyists are a designed part of our governmental system...removing lobbyists completely would be like removing you freedom of speech or to vote. Lo byists do the same thing we do...the petition their government officials. We are no different when we write our congressman then donate to his campain if they vote the way we like.
Lobbyists aren't the problem. That would be like saying voters are the reason congress is corrupt.
Good luck with this logical train of thought. To this day, I can't comprehend why people go nuts about lobbyists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3372910
Darth my friend you are looking at this from the standpoint that the gubment has the authority to be involved in a lot of stuff that I don't agree they should be into.
And there you have it, Darth is too liberal. lol
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up#post_3372875
Lobbyists are a designed part of our governmental system...removing lobbyists completely would be like removing you freedom of speech or to vote. Lo byists do the same thing we do...the petition their government officials. We are no different when we write our congressman then donate to his campain if they vote the way we like.
Lobbyists aren't the problem. That would be like saying voters are the reason congress is corrupt.
Good luck with this logical train of thought. To this day, I can't comprehend why people go nuts about lobbyists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3372910
Darth my friend you are looking at this from the standpoint that the gubment has the authority to be involved in a lot of stuff that I don't agree they should be into.
And there you have it, Darth is too liberal. lol
darthtang aw
Active Member
Wow.....I thought we were talkingabout lobbyists...not the feds over reaching of power over the last century. And yet neither of you guys have answered any of the questions I asked. Avoiding the question to remain steadfast in your opinion is very politician of you guys.
Is the NRA bad for lobbying for gun rights? The nra represents gun manufacturers, merchants and owners. Is the NRA bad to lobby on their behalf?
Darth (the new liberal) Tang.
P.S. your 4 weeksa year congress works fine in the 17th century....but notin the global world or economy we have today.
Is the NRA bad for lobbying for gun rights? The nra represents gun manufacturers, merchants and owners. Is the NRA bad to lobby on their behalf?
Darth (the new liberal) Tang.
P.S. your 4 weeksa year congress works fine in the 17th century....but notin the global world or economy we have today.
mantisman51
Active Member
From the beginning of the republican form of governance (yes even in ancient Greece) there has been an outcry against lobbyists. Lobbyists are not (even the whackos hired by George Soros) a danger to our republic. It is incumbent on we the people to elect people of integrity to represent us. If politicians succumb to the money and influence of lobbyists, that is what we have a judicial system and ballot box for. In the case of GE, they are the largest manufacturer of jet engines and satellite equipment in the world. So they will always have a (too) close relationship with congress. Remember Eisenhower's warning of the military industrial complex. This is a prime example.
spanko
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3372923
Wow.....I thought we were talkingabout lobbyists...not the feds over reaching of power over the last century. And yet neither of you guys have answered any of the questions I asked. Avoiding the question to remain steadfast in your opinion is very politician of you guys.
Is the NRA bad for lobbying for gun rights? The nra represents gun manufacturers, merchants and owners. Is the NRA bad to lobby on their behalf? Yes, why in the world would we need the NRA is the congresssenatesupreme court upheld the constitution.
Darth (the new liberal) Tang.
P.S. your 4 weeksa year congress works fine in the 17th century....but notin the global world or economy we have today. The congresssenate do not drive the economy anywhere but into the ground. Their meddling is what has put the economy in the situation that exists now, and they continue to meddle. This is not a liberal or conservative discussion between you and I this is a government too big from my side. Look at the past couple of week, the don't go to war president has us now putting our assest in the middles east again. Liberal - conservative.. the war machine marches on even though we don't have the money to support it. But I digress, please ask your questions that have not been answered yet again as I have lost track in the drive home from work.
Spanko(had to concentrate on the stupid Detriot traffic) Henry.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3372923
Wow.....I thought we were talkingabout lobbyists...not the feds over reaching of power over the last century. And yet neither of you guys have answered any of the questions I asked. Avoiding the question to remain steadfast in your opinion is very politician of you guys.
Is the NRA bad for lobbying for gun rights? The nra represents gun manufacturers, merchants and owners. Is the NRA bad to lobby on their behalf? Yes, why in the world would we need the NRA is the congresssenatesupreme court upheld the constitution.
Darth (the new liberal) Tang.
P.S. your 4 weeksa year congress works fine in the 17th century....but notin the global world or economy we have today. The congresssenate do not drive the economy anywhere but into the ground. Their meddling is what has put the economy in the situation that exists now, and they continue to meddle. This is not a liberal or conservative discussion between you and I this is a government too big from my side. Look at the past couple of week, the don't go to war president has us now putting our assest in the middles east again. Liberal - conservative.. the war machine marches on even though we don't have the money to support it. But I digress, please ask your questions that have not been answered yet again as I have lost track in the drive home from work.
Spanko(had to concentrate on the stupid Detriot traffic) Henry.
spanko
Active Member
As I sit here thinking on it some more you and I may be saying the same thing from a different point of view, let's see if I get it or not.
Your stance is we need to have lobbyists so that they can shovel money to corrupt politicians to drive things in our and corporations etc. way.
I am saying if the corrupt politicians would do only what they are allowed to do by the constitution the lobbyists would not be needed.
Your stance is we need to have lobbyists so that they can shovel money to corrupt politicians to drive things in our and corporations etc. way.
I am saying if the corrupt politicians would do only what they are allowed to do by the constitution the lobbyists would not be needed.
darthtang aw
Active Member
As I sit here thinking on it some more you and I may be saying the same thing from a different point of view, let's see if I get it or not.
Your stance is we need to have lobbyists so that they can shovel money to corrupt politicians to drive things in our and corporations etc. way.
I am saying if the corrupt politicians would do only what they are allowed to do by the constitution the lobbyists would not be needed.
Exactly...sort of...lol.
Lobbyist fall under the protection of free speech. Since the federal government and state governments have exten ded their taxation reach to not only emcompass the individuals of this nation but als corporations lobbyists are a necessity on all levels.
You bring up the fed sticking strictly to the constitution. Fine let's say they do that to the degree you desire or believe the constitution to state. You would still have lobbyistsl an example would be abortion...this would be a states jurisdiction issue and the lobbyist on abortion would just move from the federal level to the state level.
I cqn argue both sides of the second ammendment.....this is why I feel lobbyists are needed on all levels. Because human beings interpret things differently. And the populace and small corps..small businesses haveenough on their plate daily without having to lobby for themselves daily. Lobbyists do this. Look up the top 10 lobbying groups....none of them are corrupt corporate lobbying hounds trying to screw the people to make their wall street partners rich. The top ten are average issues. There is alobby group for veterans of foreign wars.........would supportting and siding with such a group be a bad thing for politicians?
This is why I hate when People blame lobbyists and call them bad. They do nothing different than the average citizen involved in our political atmospere.
spanko
Active Member
Yes but your comparison of lobbyists to the average citizen leaves out one important aspect, the power that big money brings to the decision making process. When staring at large contributions to reelection campaigns most would say the citizen be damned. Getting back to your original stomach upset look at GE. I would submit that Jeffrey Immelt has probably paid millions to lobbyists to get to where GE is today. Yet he sits up there on the presidents economic recovery advisory board and has the ear of the president and therefore the party in power to get what he desires in laws. These things he gets or "lobbies" for are not for the good of America, or its citizens. It is for the good of GE in that it puts in place things that the GE corp can pay for but the competition cannot afford, so it reduces the playing field.
Now riddle me this darthtang can you go purchase an American made GE toaster, coffee pot, iron, fridge, stove, etc. etc. etc? The answer is no. They are all made off shore. Hmmmmmmmm. What kind of advice is he "lobbying" for with the powers that be. Certainly not anything that helps promote US jobs.
I won't make this a war discussion, but I do believe that the nation should take care of the people that they put into harms way to protect our liberty.....DIRECTLY.
Now riddle me this darthtang can you go purchase an American made GE toaster, coffee pot, iron, fridge, stove, etc. etc. etc? The answer is no. They are all made off shore. Hmmmmmmmm. What kind of advice is he "lobbying" for with the powers that be. Certainly not anything that helps promote US jobs.
I won't make this a war discussion, but I do believe that the nation should take care of the people that they put into harms way to protect our liberty.....DIRECTLY.
mantisman51
Active Member
Spank, they are lobbying to get the government contracts for the aforementioned jet engines and satellite equipment and billions in tax savings on the profits of the aforementioned toasters and fridges. This ain't rocket surgery. It stinks to high heaven, but the only way it could change is to have a government agency giving permission to whomever wishes to petition congress. A much less palatable solution to voters taking responsibility for who they elect.
spanko
Active Member
Or to get the government out of the way and let the system do what it does. If the people are that mad at jobs moving off shore then they can quit buying the GE product. The same with the government contracts for equipment. The market should drive who gets what, not lobbyists. If XYZ Rocket can make the same or better product for a lower or equal cost that should be the concern, not which lobbyist pays the most to the politician to get himher to vote a certain way. You are correct sir, this is not rocket science but market driven capitalism. And the voters should elect whomever they feel with be good stewards of their money.
Then on the other side perhaps if we were not always meddling in the affairs of others and only taking care of ourselves and our interests then maybe we wouldn't even require the amount of military spending we do have.
Take a look here..............................
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm
Spanko(capitalism is boss)Henry
Then on the other side perhaps if we were not always meddling in the affairs of others and only taking care of ourselves and our interests then maybe we wouldn't even require the amount of military spending we do have.
Take a look here..............................
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm
Spanko(capitalism is boss)Henry
darthtang aw
Active Member
Spanko...are you an isolationist? Because it sounds like it.
mantisman51
Active Member
I admit it, I am becoming an isolationist(I know I am not Spanko). I am sick of being the world's police. I am sick of trillion $ wars with little or nothing to show. I am sickened to the point of rage at our young men (and women) being slaughtered and maimed in conflicts that don't make sense anymore. I am starting to come around to the idea of getting the h@ll out of foreign entanglements and bringing our bravest and best home and worry about our country for a change. Dammit, I know I am sounding like a liberal, but how much money and blood do we need to give in this pursuit of "American interests"? Here's how simple it is: Pull out of every foreign country that doesn't pay for their security or pose a direct MILITARY threat to us. Charge a flat 25% corporate tax on every corporation that sells anything in the US-non-interstate companies are exempt. For every $ the corporation spends on R&D and ACTUAL wages and jobs produced is 100% deducted from their tax liability.Any company that produces anything in any other country (sorry Canada and Mexico) pays the 25% tax on profit + 25% tariff on the imported junk. All products made by companies that are not based in the US pays 50% tariff. You think companies would stop selling in the US? You think companies like GE and WalMart wouldn't start producing more products here to MAKE MORE MONEY? There, now we are back to the Constitutional method of taxation and lobbyists would have very little to bribe politicians for and jobs would come back to America that actually pay something.
stdreb27
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3373157
I admit it, I am becoming an isolationist(I know I am not Spanko). I am sick of being the world's police. I am sick of trillion $ wars with little or nothing to show. I am sickened to the point of rage at our young men (and women) being slaughtered and maimed in conflicts that don't make sense anymore. I am starting to come around to the idea of getting the h@ll out of foreign entanglements and bringing our bravest and best home and worry about our country for a change. Dammit, I know I am sounding like a liberal, but how much money and blood do we need to give in this pursuit of "American interests"? Here's how simple it is: Pull out of every foreign country that doesn't pay for their security or pose a direct MILITARY threat to us. Charge a flat 25% corporate tax on every corporation that sells anything in the US-non-interstate companies are exempt. For every $ the corporation spends on R&D and ACTUAL wages and jobs produced is 100% deducted from their tax liability.Any company that produces anything in any other country (sorry Canada and Mexico) pays the 25% tax on profit + 25% tariff on the imported junk. All products made by companies that are not based in the US pays 50% tariff. You think companies would stop selling in the US? You think companies like GE and WalMart wouldn't start producing more products here to MAKE MORE MONEY? There, now we are back to the Constitutional method of taxation and lobbyists would have very little to bribe politicians for and jobs would come back to America that actually pay something.
lol, we tried that, it was called Smoot Haley tariff. It didn't go over well, and resulted in FDR's new deal...
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3373157
I admit it, I am becoming an isolationist(I know I am not Spanko). I am sick of being the world's police. I am sick of trillion $ wars with little or nothing to show. I am sickened to the point of rage at our young men (and women) being slaughtered and maimed in conflicts that don't make sense anymore. I am starting to come around to the idea of getting the h@ll out of foreign entanglements and bringing our bravest and best home and worry about our country for a change. Dammit, I know I am sounding like a liberal, but how much money and blood do we need to give in this pursuit of "American interests"? Here's how simple it is: Pull out of every foreign country that doesn't pay for their security or pose a direct MILITARY threat to us. Charge a flat 25% corporate tax on every corporation that sells anything in the US-non-interstate companies are exempt. For every $ the corporation spends on R&D and ACTUAL wages and jobs produced is 100% deducted from their tax liability.Any company that produces anything in any other country (sorry Canada and Mexico) pays the 25% tax on profit + 25% tariff on the imported junk. All products made by companies that are not based in the US pays 50% tariff. You think companies would stop selling in the US? You think companies like GE and WalMart wouldn't start producing more products here to MAKE MORE MONEY? There, now we are back to the Constitutional method of taxation and lobbyists would have very little to bribe politicians for and jobs would come back to America that actually pay something.
lol, we tried that, it was called Smoot Haley tariff. It didn't go over well, and resulted in FDR's new deal...
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3373157
I admit it, I am becoming an isolationist(I know I am not Spanko). I am sick of being the world's police. I am sick of trillion $ wars with little or nothing to show. I am sickened to the point of rage at our young men (and women) being slaughtered and maimed in conflicts that don't make sense anymore. I am starting to come around to the idea of getting the h@ll out of foreign entanglements and bringing our bravest and best home and worry about our country for a change. Dammit, I know I am sounding like a liberal, but how much money and blood do we need to give in this pursuit of "American interests"? Here's how simple it is: Pull out of every foreign country that doesn't pay for their security or pose a direct MILITARY threat to us. Charge a flat 25% corporate tax on every corporation that sells anything in the US-non-interstate companies are exempt. For every $ the corporation spends on R&D and ACTUAL wages and jobs produced is 100% deducted from their tax liability.Any company that produces anything in any other country (sorry Canada and Mexico) pays the 25% tax on profit + 25% tariff on the imported junk. All products made by companies that are not based in the US pays 50% tariff. You think companies would stop selling in the US? You think companies like GE and WalMart wouldn't start producing more products here to MAKE MORE MONEY? There, now we are back to the Constitutional method of taxation and lobbyists would have very little to bribe politicians for and jobs would come back to America that actually pay something.
I'm sure corporations would have no problem "building in the US". Question is, are you willing to pay the extra 30% for the products they do produce in the Good Ole US of A? I have a buddy whose company builds parts for major auto manufacturers. They have plants in the US, Canada, and Mexico. Currently, they are moving their entire US/Canada operations down to Mexico. Why? Because they can pay the people who work on the manufacturing lines $8/DAY in Mexico. He told me they have a Molding Injection plant up in Michigan where they pay the workers to run the molding machines $60K - $70K per year. They have since trained qualified Mexican college graduates who have the capacity to perform the exact same job $20K - $25K per year. If they have to move those plants back to the US, who do you think will pay the difference in salary costs for their employees? I guarantee you it won't be them...
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3373157
I admit it, I am becoming an isolationist(I know I am not Spanko). I am sick of being the world's police. I am sick of trillion $ wars with little or nothing to show. I am sickened to the point of rage at our young men (and women) being slaughtered and maimed in conflicts that don't make sense anymore. I am starting to come around to the idea of getting the h@ll out of foreign entanglements and bringing our bravest and best home and worry about our country for a change. Dammit, I know I am sounding like a liberal, but how much money and blood do we need to give in this pursuit of "American interests"? Here's how simple it is: Pull out of every foreign country that doesn't pay for their security or pose a direct MILITARY threat to us. Charge a flat 25% corporate tax on every corporation that sells anything in the US-non-interstate companies are exempt. For every $ the corporation spends on R&D and ACTUAL wages and jobs produced is 100% deducted from their tax liability.Any company that produces anything in any other country (sorry Canada and Mexico) pays the 25% tax on profit + 25% tariff on the imported junk. All products made by companies that are not based in the US pays 50% tariff. You think companies would stop selling in the US? You think companies like GE and WalMart wouldn't start producing more products here to MAKE MORE MONEY? There, now we are back to the Constitutional method of taxation and lobbyists would have very little to bribe politicians for and jobs would come back to America that actually pay something.
I'm sure corporations would have no problem "building in the US". Question is, are you willing to pay the extra 30% for the products they do produce in the Good Ole US of A? I have a buddy whose company builds parts for major auto manufacturers. They have plants in the US, Canada, and Mexico. Currently, they are moving their entire US/Canada operations down to Mexico. Why? Because they can pay the people who work on the manufacturing lines $8/DAY in Mexico. He told me they have a Molding Injection plant up in Michigan where they pay the workers to run the molding machines $60K - $70K per year. They have since trained qualified Mexican college graduates who have the capacity to perform the exact same job $20K - $25K per year. If they have to move those plants back to the US, who do you think will pay the difference in salary costs for their employees? I guarantee you it won't be them...
mantisman51
Active Member
Yeah, and companies will have to pay more in wages. It would also make us independent again. Something we haven't been since the 60's. No more excuses for starting wars for "American interests". We are now the largest debtor nation in the world. Think about that for just a minute. Not the next argument, think about us, the United States, we are the biggest debtor nation on the planet. We have lost our manufacturing capabilities and continue to indebt ourselves to pay for the cheap crap from other countries. In doing so, we have now built our biggest enemy ever, the Chinese. Yeah there would be an initial inflationary period, but as Americans were hired to produce products for Americans, the labor/wage/inflation situation would correct itself in a true free market environment.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Yeah, and companies will have to pay more in wages. It would also make us independent again. Something we haven't been since the 60's. No more excuses for starting wars for "American interests". We are now the largest debtor nation in the world. Think about that for just a minute. Not the next argument, think about us, the United States, we are the biggest debtor nation on the planet. We have lost our manufacturing capabilities and continue to indebt ourselves to pay for the cheap crap from other countries. In doing so, we have now built our biggest enemy ever, the Chinese. Yeah there would be an initial inflationary period, but as Americans were hired to produce products for Americans, the labor/wage/inflation situation would correct itself in a true free market environment.
Wrong. Mantis do me a favor and do some serious research into this. Not what is reported on radio or repeated regularly by politicians or similar ilk.
Let's look at something as simple as the sugar manufacturing industry. Sugar..it is cheap relatively. It is in high demand for lots of other products. You would think it would be cheap. Wrong. Our suger cost here in the U.S. is twice the cost of the world price average. Why? We manufacture 85 percent of our sugar... to maintain the some 2000 manufacturing jobs in country...total cost to the tax payer is over 800000 per job...for various reasons. So not only do we pay double to maintain these manufacturing jobs...but we are adding to our own national debt through various reasons by doing so.
Our debt problem has nothing to do with manufacturing job loss (as unemployment has been relatively steady during high manufacturing and low manufacturing) and everything to do with rampant spending and unfair taxation. You want to wipe out the debt........tax ev enly and correctly. A person can apply and become approved for various programs to effectively live a lifestyle for a family of four of about 60000 a year in this country. Who pays for this....the people working making the actual 60000 a year or more.
The problem is not manufacturing job loss...the problem is our own glutonous attitudes in all things.
Darth (need a shower for sort of agreeing with bionic) Tang
spanko
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3373152
Spanko...are you an isolationist? Because it sounds like it.
No. I do believe in free trade in the strictest sense though. I you are a country that is going to put tariffs on our goods I believe we should reciprocate.
I also believe that with the problems we are in now we need to do a few things to get ourselves back to square 1.
In 2009 we spent about $270 billion in foreign aid. I would tell each and every country we are stopping all aid to them until we balance our budget.
In 2007 we spent $741 billion in military spending. That is 1/3 of the total worlds expenditure. The next closest was China at $380 billion. Looks like we could cut ours in half at least and I would say even more if we would shut down most if not all of our military bases in other countries. I will never understand this anyway. What do think we would tell the oh I don't know the Germans, Italians, Saudi Arabians if they wanted to put military bases in our country? I have a feeling I know.
The US department of Health Education and Welfare was established in 1953. I wonder how the industrial revolution was able to happen without the federal government intervening until then.How were we able to become the most wealthy country in the world up until then. Spending in 2010 about $100 billion. Get the fed out of it and let the states or even the market take care of education.
The department of agriculture about $140 billion. For what, to pay subsidies for farmers not to grow things?
Social Security admin about $760 billion. I would also like to see this abolished. Could be done fairly easily without causing a lot of pain. Say anyone 50 plus years of age still gets social security when they retire. Anyone 30-50 would have what they have paid in returned to them in the form of federal tax credits until they use it up. People under 30 you don't have to pay in and use the funds to create your own IRA or whatever savings you want to do for yourself.
There is so much more, but you get the idea.
I won't even get into how much of the above is not an enumerated power of the feds for now. But you get the idea. We don't have they money and we continue to build the debt at $1.4 trillion per year not including the interest on the debt.
So am I an isolationist, kind of for the time being until we get our own house in order.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/384770/i-think-i-am-going-to-throw-up/20#post_3373152
Spanko...are you an isolationist? Because it sounds like it.
No. I do believe in free trade in the strictest sense though. I you are a country that is going to put tariffs on our goods I believe we should reciprocate.
I also believe that with the problems we are in now we need to do a few things to get ourselves back to square 1.
In 2009 we spent about $270 billion in foreign aid. I would tell each and every country we are stopping all aid to them until we balance our budget.
In 2007 we spent $741 billion in military spending. That is 1/3 of the total worlds expenditure. The next closest was China at $380 billion. Looks like we could cut ours in half at least and I would say even more if we would shut down most if not all of our military bases in other countries. I will never understand this anyway. What do think we would tell the oh I don't know the Germans, Italians, Saudi Arabians if they wanted to put military bases in our country? I have a feeling I know.
The US department of Health Education and Welfare was established in 1953. I wonder how the industrial revolution was able to happen without the federal government intervening until then.How were we able to become the most wealthy country in the world up until then. Spending in 2010 about $100 billion. Get the fed out of it and let the states or even the market take care of education.
The department of agriculture about $140 billion. For what, to pay subsidies for farmers not to grow things?
Social Security admin about $760 billion. I would also like to see this abolished. Could be done fairly easily without causing a lot of pain. Say anyone 50 plus years of age still gets social security when they retire. Anyone 30-50 would have what they have paid in returned to them in the form of federal tax credits until they use it up. People under 30 you don't have to pay in and use the funds to create your own IRA or whatever savings you want to do for yourself.
There is so much more, but you get the idea.
I won't even get into how much of the above is not an enumerated power of the feds for now. But you get the idea. We don't have they money and we continue to build the debt at $1.4 trillion per year not including the interest on the debt.
So am I an isolationist, kind of for the time being until we get our own house in order.