I'm out.

[pezenfuego]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3229485
.....

....what has your underwear in a bunch?
You know what, I said I HEARD it was so and I have kept freshwater fish for 30+ years. I had never touched anything with saltwater to my fresh in all that time. When I told Pez don't add a thing not even decoration, it was a warning so he didn't just jump in and change up....as I had been warned about it oh so many years ago.
I did not present it as a solid fact...I made it very clear that I wasn't sure why. So I didn't lead anyone astray. I said I ASSUMED it was the salt but wasn't sure.
Also if you had bothered to read all of my posts on the subject you can see that I offered to do some more research to find out for sure. I had to go to work. I did not change the subject. This morning when I got home I posted and I said I did the promised research, and found it not as bad as originally thought, that the restrictions were on rock and skeleton remains like seashells, and found it to be calcium not salt that leaked, also keeping Cichlids are the exception....they need the higher PH calcium produces.
Forget about it, both of you. Show some respect for each other.
The problem has been cleared up. It's fine.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3229480
I would be surprised if Bang even had a calcium test for freshwater. Then again he constantly surprises me.
Sorry for the triple post btw but I have been reading up on the effects of an argonite buffer.
It seems as though the effects should be minimal.
If I do have some problems, I think I'll supplement CO2. Supposedly that helps to lower pH...and it will be good for the plants.
Is it to late to add a layer of peat under your sand?
I think the aragonite will eventually dissolve. I don't know what issues might pop up as the grain size becomes smaller and smaller. Theoretically the smaller the grain size the faster it will dissolve.
I have a GH test for freshwater which measures Magnesium and Calcium because of the Discus.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3229495
Forget about it, both of you. Show some respect for each other.
The problem has been cleared up. It's fine.

I am sure he is just young and being older I get annoyed.
ANYWAY...I read you were going for cichlids. They have the best color, but they are mean little nasty things. I call them the damsels of freshwater. I have a friend that won't keep anything else. I suppose you either love them or hate them.
On the plus side with cichlids you can use your substrate, rock and anything else from your saltwater tank.

 

[pezenfuego]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3229497
Is it to late to add a layer of peat under your sand?
I think the aragonite will eventually dissolve. I don't know what issues might pop up as the grain size becomes smaller and smaller. Theoretically the smaller the grain size the faster it will dissolve.
I have a GH test for freshwater which measures Magnesium and Calcium because of the Discus.
You answered part of the question I was about to ask you...as google is failing me.
How long does it take for argonite to cause the pH to rise?
I can put peat under my sand or in my filter/sump...but seeing as this costs money and it a pain in the arse, I will only do it out of necessity. I could actually put some in my baffles. It is my understanding that despite the fact that these fish can tolerate a higher pH, I should strive to keep the level under 7.5.
Going off of memory, my water out of the tap and my ro/di are acidic. Seeing as my tap water is softened, it lacks the carbonate hardness that can cause a high pH. Then again...I've never really had problems with pH, so my understanding may be skewed.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3229512
How long does it take for argonite to cause the pH to rise?
I think it depends on the starting PH along with the existing KH and GH.
I think you need to experiment and find out. A spoonful of aragonite in a cup of your water along with a PH test kit should give you the answer you seek.

 

[pezenfuego]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3229517
I think it depends on the starting PH, the existing KH and GH.
I think you need to experiment and find out. A spoonful of aragonite in a cup of your water along with a PH test kit should give you the answer you seek.
Yay chemistry experiments!
I'll do that once I get my test kit. I have a couple of 1 gallon holding tanks lying around. I have a ratio of 20 pounds of argonite to 40 gallons of water (I filled it with 2 five gallon jugs of ro/di and 2 five gallon jugs of tap). 8.35 times 40 is 334 pounds of water. that's a ratio of 20 pounds to 334 pounds. In my one gallon tanks I will need about 0.05988 pounds of argonite or about 27 grams. I'll put 27 grams in each container with one gallon of water. According to two separate internet sources (I probably shouldn't name them), argonite has a density of around 1602 kg/cu.m or 1602g/L. Using the density formula 27/1602 equals 0.0169 L or about 3 teaspoons.
I'll just put 3 teaspoons of argonite in one gallon of ro/di, one gallon of tap, and one gallon of the combination.
Then I'll map my results.

 

[pezenfuego]

Test are in. The obvious occurred no nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, or ammonia.
My water is soft- 75ppm
My alk is 300 ppm
My pH is 8.1 oh noes...
My tap water pH is about 7.4 ...that is much higher than I had initially thought.
My ro/di has a pH of 6 which is lower than I thought. So I'm kinda aggravated.
I was using a 50/50 of both tap and ro/di.
I may just go with African Cichlids, they will love that number.

 

[bang guy]

It doesn't make much difference here but I thought I'd mention that RO/DI PH is a meaningless number. It is so reactive that if dust settles in it the PH will rise and if you breathe on it the ph will drop. It should always be considered neutral for our purposes regardless of what the PH test shows.

 

[pezenfuego]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3229667
It doesn't make much difference here but I thought I'd mention that RO/DI PH is a meaningless number. It is so reactive that if dust settles in it the PH will rise and if you breathe on it the ph will drop. It should always be considered neutral for our purposes regardless of what the PH test shows.
Really? Dust? Great thanks, now I have another experiment. lol
You're really full of information most people would consider useless. I find it fascinating. Thank you.

 

[calbert0]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3229072

Pez don't take anything from a saltwater tank and put it in a freshwater tank, not even a decoration.
Once something has been used for saltwater you can't use for fresh anymore. I don't remmber why, it is a rule I was told years ago, so do some research if you feel you need to find out why..I sort of would like to know myself.

sorry to hear you have to give it up for now.

Not true... I have a bunch of formerly live saltwater rock in my African Cichlid tank. Everything is fine. i didnt even bleach it, i just let it dry out, rinsed it and through it in the cichlid tank. I have also interchanged several HOB filters with not problem

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3229072
Once something has been used for saltwater you can't use for fresh anymore.
I have done research on google and still have yet to find a single site that says it's not good to use equipment across salt/fresh.

 

[beaslbob]

Lets see
You're quitting saltwater and converting to freshwater.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
that explains the thread on the redfield ratio.

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/3229706
I have done research on google and still have yet to find a single site that says it's not good to use equipment across salt/fresh.
OK....Here is my experience.
I have a magnum 250 canister that I used with sw...got a new cascade, and now use the magnum in my FW tank
I also have a few decorations that I put in my SW tank before realizing that DECOS did not belong, I now have them in my fw tanks.
I only rinsed them before putting them in the fw tanks
I have had no problems at all.
OH YEAH....The filter on my 29G SW tank use to be on a FW tank

 

[pezenfuego]

The redfield ratio is also applicable to saltwater. For saltwater though, we use ro/di and (in theory) can easily rid our tanks of any excess nitrate and phosphate. Freshwater tanks on the other hand could do a million water changes and still have a problem with phosphate and nitrate. That's where the Redfield ratio comes in.

 

[stdreb27]

The next serious FW tank I do, I'm going to go with a sump setup. But aren't you going to put some sort of mechanical filtration media in your sump?

 

[pezenfuego]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3230047
The next serious FW tank I do, I'm going to go with a sump setup. But aren't you going to put some sort of mechanical filtration media in your sump?
Yes, I do. Penguin 350.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3230042
The redfield ratio is also applicable to saltwater. For saltwater though, we use ro/di and (in theory) can easily rid our tanks of any excess nitrate and phosphate. Freshwater tanks on the other hand could do a million water changes and still have a problem with phosphate and nitrate. That's where the Redfield ratio comes in.
Understand.
To me ro/di does not get rid of the "excess" nitrates/phosphates as most all of those come from the bioload not the input water. But then I don't do any water changes.
my .02

 

[pezenfuego]

Okay so a little update. I was wrong about my tap water. My tap water has a very basic pH. Who knew? I was wanting to keep African cichlids- C. afra specifically. I had originally thought that the aragonite buffered the water to have such a high pH. Since my tap water underwent softening, the hardness (even after being buffered by the sand) is very low-less than 75 ppm or 4 degrees. I went ahead and tested my well water. It has approximately 250 tds (I don't have a dip meter, but rather an inline one...so testing wasn't perfectly accurate), 300 ppm kH, 7.6 pH, and about .25 phosphates. The last number is the only thing that irks me. So basically I'm going to do a close to 100% water change this weekend and put in 50% ro/di and 50% well water. My hopes in doing this is that the pH will get a little lower-shooting for 7.8 (conceivable after buffer), and the hardness will increase. The phosphate will also get diluted. Thankfully my well water contains no nitrate or nitrite...or ammonia lol.
What do you guys think? Do you think this is a good idea? The only downside I can see as of now (aside from the elbow grease) is that I may need to reintroduce an ammonia source and will be stressing the bacteria and making my cycle longer.

 

[kjr_trig]

I've taken stuff from my saltwater tank and put it into a freshwater tank

It is in fact not poisonous

I've done it a few times in fact

It seemed to work ok

Good luck Pez, hope you get that Ray someday

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3231753
Okay so a little update. I was wrong about my tap water. My tap water has a very basic pH. Who knew? I was wanting to keep African cichlids- C. afra specifically. I had originally thought that the aragonite buffered the water to have such a high pH. Since my tap water underwent softening, the hardness (even after being buffered by the sand) is very low-less than 75 ppm or 4 degrees. I went ahead and tested my well water. It has approximately 250 tds (I don't have a dip meter, but rather an inline one...so testing wasn't perfectly accurate), 300 ppm kH, 7.6 pH, and about .25 phosphates. The last number is the only thing that irks me. So basically I'm going to do a close to 100% water change this weekend and put in 50% ro/di and 50% well water. My hopes in doing this is that the pH will get a little lower-shooting for 7.8 (conceivable after buffer), and the hardness will increase. The phosphate will also get diluted. Thankfully my well water contains no nitrate or nitrite...or ammonia lol.
What do you guys think? Do you think this is a good idea? The only downside I can see as of now (aside from the elbow grease) is that I may need to reintroduce an ammonia source and will be stressing the bacteria and making my cycle longer.
I'm not sure which Cichlids you're trying to keep, (I may have read it earlier but I don't remember now). But they sell RO/DI conditioner. To get the water back to where it needs to be, why not just go 100% RO/DI and use the right conditioner for the fish you want.