Is everyone equal in heaven?

reefforbrains

reefforbrains

Active Member
I am missing the humor. It is funny that someone would be in heaven with Hitler while you would not be?
I think it would be more ironic that the joke overlooks that Hitler can make it in passed the pearly gates and leave someone else standing outside stuck waiting for a twitter update about it.
 
t316

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
http:///forum/post/3107735
I am missing the humor. It is funny that someone would be in heaven with Hitler while you would not be?
I think it would be more ironic that the joke overlooks that Hitler can make it in passed the pearly gates and leave someone else standing outside stuck waiting for a twitter update about it.
You might have misinterpreted, I'm saying that it's unlikely that Hitler will be there.
Joking aside, I am not God, nor do I claim to be, so I cannot say who is in heaven and who is not. Any of these people could have repented last minute and been forgiven, thus allowing them the promise of eternal life in heaven. But in the context of our conversation here, it's doubtful that Hitler, or any of these people, changed their ways on their death bed. I suspect their fate has a little warmer climate.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

Just got in from work..what a topic I was missing!
Without being too preachy...According to religious writings...there are those who, because of a very pious life obtain a greater position in the hereafter, it is not based on money, or fame...those things mean nothing to the Almighty.
I have the references...if you want them.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3107761

Just got in from work..what a topic I was missing!
Without being too preachy...According to religious writings...there are those who, because of a very pious life obtain a greater position in the hereafter, it is not based on money, or fame...those things mean nothing to the Almighty.
I have the references...if you want them.
Wow, you've got references from the Big Guy? Impressive. So define 'pious life'. How does someone obtain that distinction? So what you're saying, is even in heaven there's this form of 'social status' or 'rankings' based on whether you were naughty or nice while existing on planet Earth? What are the perks for having this 'greater position'? Do you get more quality time with God and Jesus, a higher performance set of wings?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I once heard a very wise man say "The only thing that is going to surprise us more than some of the people we meet in heaven is going to be those who aren't there".
 
t316

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3107790
.... a higher performance set of wings?
Good one...

Again, I don't think it's anything related to "social status", rather rewards for the works done here on earth.
"... and each one will receive His own reward ACCORDING TO HIS OWN LABOR." (1 Corinthians 3:8)
"And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone ACCORDING TO HIS WORK." (Revelation 22:12)
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/3107817
Good one...

Again, I don't think it's anything related to "social status", rather rewards for the works done here on earth.
"... and each one will receive His own reward ACCORDING TO HIS OWN LABOR." (1 Corinthians 3:8)
"And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone ACCORDING TO HIS WORK." (Revelation 22:12)
In what context are you defing work and labor? Physically or spiritually? If it's physical, then every individual who does manual labor for a living will have a higher 'status' than those people I've mentioned I wouldn't mind talking to. If it's based on those principles, then every famous person we know today, including CONGRESS, won't even get through the gate..
 
t316

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3107871
In what context are you defing work and labor? Physically or spiritually? If it's physical, then every individual who does manual labor for a living will have a higher 'status' than those people I've mentioned I wouldn't mind talking to. If it's based on those principles, then every famous person we know today, including CONGRESS, won't even get through the gate..

I'm with you on the last sentence...

I'm no scholar, but I assume it's referring to spiritual works, such as living a spiritual life, how many people you witnessed to, good deeds, etc., but I doubt it has anything to do with manual labor, otherwise, I'm slowly starting to sin the older I get...
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

This subject is so volatile...So I am trying to tread very carefully, because while it is a joke to many, it is life and death to folks like me.
To start with, the WORKS spoken of by Paul (a Very Pious Jewish man) mean the works that we do according to Torah law. Christians think that law was done away with...too long to explain why that is error.
According to Talmud...we need one righteous one to speak on our behalf. Paul teaches that Jesus ever lives to make that intersession for us. So what you need to stand firm and safe before the Almighty is both an intercessor and works. Paul taught Talmud (the oral law), that and Torah made up the religion of Isreal.
There have been many intercessors over time..Moses was the first, he taught that another like him would arise and whoever does not regard THAT Prophet will have to answer to the Almighty for insubordination . Deu 18:15- 18
There are 613 commandments..1/3 are for the Priests (Levi)..1/3 are for men only, and 1/3 are for women only. The only righteous works are those taught in the Torah...Paul knew only the Torah and Oral law..as to why I know that is what he is speaking about.
Everyone has a reference to examine from the big guy as to what he expects of us. It is called the Bible. The revelations of John, another Jew is the same mind set as Paul.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3107959

This subject is so volatile...So I am trying to tread very carefully, because while it is a joke to many, it is life and death to folks like me.
To start with, the WORKS spoken of by Paul (a Very Pious Jewish man) mean the works that we do according to Torah law. Christians think that law was done away with...too long to explain why that is error.
According to Talmud...we need one righteous one to speak on our behalf. Paul teaches that Jesus ever lives to make that intersession for us. So what you need to stand firm and safe before the Almighty is both an intercessor and works. Paul taught Talmud (the oral law), that and Torah made up the religion of Isreal.
There have been many intercessors over time..Moses was the first, he taught that another like him would arise and whoever does not regard THAT Prophet will have to answer to the Almighty for insubordination . Deu 18:15- 18
There are 613 commandments..1/3 are for the Priests (Levi)..1/3 are for men only, and 1/3 are for women only. The only righteous works are those taught in the Torah...Paul knew only the Torah and Oral law..as to why I know that is what he is speaking about.
Everyone has a reference to examine from the big guy as to what he expects of us. It is called the Bible. The revelations of John, another Jew is the same mind set as Paul.

Wait a minute. Admittance shouldn't be based on religious affiliation. You're implying the Jews have an upper hand over the Catholics, Baptists, Islams, Protestants, and all the other 'non denominational' religions. I'm a true-blooded Agnostict, and I bet you I'll have the exact same status as you or any other religious believer. All I have to do is repent my sins, and brother Jesus says all is forgiven. "Welcome my son. May Peace Be With You."....
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108201
Wait a minute. Admittance shouldn't be based on religious affiliation. You're implying the Jews have an upper hand over the Catholics, Baptists, Islams, Protestants, and all the other 'non denominational' religions. I'm a true-blooded Agnostict, and I bet you I'll have the exact same status as you or any other religious believer. All I have to do is repent my sins, and brother Jesus says all is forgiven. "Welcome my son. May Peace Be With You."....

Church history my friend...the very short version...1st there was the Jews, who were promised a Messiah. Then Jesus came on the scene. Some Jews believed it was him and some did not. Judaism was the same, only Christians believed Messiah had come..That was the only difference.
325 years later a Greek Emperor named Constantine thought his sun god Mithras, and Jesus must be the same guy...Constantine presided over the council of Nicaea and declared his version of Jesus..Nothing like the real one but Mithras with the name changed. He kept everything about his religion...Sunday was now the new high holy day, instead of Sabbath. His god was born Dec. 25...the queen of heaven was his mother...that name changed from Isis to Mary.
The red robes came fom Mithras religion...and Rome was declared the holy city instead of Jerusalem. The true Christianity disappeared and was replaced with the Greek version...they declared Jesus was god. Passover was replaced with Easter. The week of unleavened bread with lent.
Catholic was born...some years later Martin Luther realized that catechism and the Bible did not match, he protested..Thus now you have the Protestants, from which came the Baptists, Methodists, Islam and the rest.
You can find all this information at any Library.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3108256

Church history my friend...the very short version...1st there was the Jews, who were promised a Messiah. Then Jesus came on the scene. Some Jews believed it was him and some did not. Judaism was the same, only Christians believed Messiah had come..That was the only difference.
325 years later a Greek Emperor named Constantine thought his sun god Mithras, and Jesus must be the same guy...Constantine presided over the council of Nicaea and declared his version of Jesus..Nothing like the real one but Mithras with the name changed. He kept everything about his religion...Sunday was now the new high holy day, instead of Sabbath. His god was born Dec. 25...the queen of heaven was his mother...that name changed from Isis to Mary.
The red robes came fom Mithras religion...and Rome was declared the holy city instead of Jerusalem. The true Christianity disappeared and was replaced with the Greek version...they declared Jesus was god. Passover was replaced with Easter. The week of unleavened bread with lent.
Catholic was born...some years later Martin Luther realized that catechism and the Bible did not match, he protested..Thus now you have the Protestants, from which came the Baptists, Methodists, Islam and the rest.
You can find all this information at any Library.
Your history lesson takes me back to the other thread I had about whether religion or God would even exist in the minds of humans if the Bible were never written. But what has this got to do with 'rankings' in heaven? Just because the Jews came first, God considers them a 'higher class order'? Whatever happened to 'all men are created equal', or is that only true in politics?
 
tangman99

tangman99

Active Member
I remember the local southern Baptist Preacher explaining this very thing when I was a kid. He said that those that live a humble life and shun the riches of the world will be first in heaven. Those that gave to others selflessly and more than they could afford would be the ones to honored by God. Then he would pass the collection plate.
 
t316

t316

Active Member
Originally Posted by TangMan99
http:///forum/post/3108369
I remember the local southern Baptist Preacher explaining this very thing when I was a kid. He said that those that live a humble life and shun the riches of the world will be first in heaven. Those that gave to others selflessly and more than they could afford would be the ones to honored by God. Then he would pass the collection plate.
That right there, in a nut shell, sums up the typical statement of those looking for justification for their non-religious participation.
*NOTE* Not implying you specifically Tang, but if this is what you grew up hearing/believing, then fire the preacher and move on. Southern Baptist can be kind of strict (which is why I'm not one), but every non-believer, non-church attending, anti-religion person that I run into (in person) uses this same lame excuse...."they all want your money".
My response is...Go to church, if not a regular then go when you can. Don't put a freakin' dime in the plate. Every church needs money, yes, to carry out it's missions, feed the poor, keep the lights on, etc., but if you don't feel so led, don't give a dime. Meet the people, hear the sermon, and if you still feel pressured to give $ and you don't want to, then go somewhere else. This is not what it's all about friends. Church should be fun, a place to worship (ever how that is with your particular beliefs), a place for your kids (and us) to learn some morals, a place you can go to help out the community. It's not about what breed started first, as Flower is presenting (although history is good), it's about you and your personal relationship with God (or higher being that you look up to).
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Salt Life
http:///forum/post/3107638
WOW, why would you put hitler?
To stir the pot.
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3107790
Wow, you've got references from the Big Guy? Impressive. So define 'pious life'. How does someone obtain that distinction? So what you're saying, is even in heaven there's this form of 'social status' or 'rankings' based on whether you were naughty or nice while existing on planet Earth? What are the perks for having this 'greater position'? Do you get more quality time with God and Jesus, a higher performance set of wings?
If you go in there and look, (and this is up to interpretation and heatedly debated among theologians) But from the way I read it, once in heaven it isn't going to be this place and life of leisure.
One train of thought is that the ones that get in, are going to be rulers and leaders of the people who survive the tribulation when they repopulate the earth.
It also makes references to being kings and rulers of some undefined thing to rule over, and some take that as other planets or whatever.
But imo that is detailed that isn't going to make me a bit of difference in my day to day life. so I don't really worry about what is the "correct" theology.
As for how, I'd propose you look at king David. This guy screwed up, murdered people, and did all kinds of dumb stuff. Yet in the end God called him a man after his own heart.
And me personally i believe that it was his malleability, to god. Every time he screwed up, he repented and did whatever it took to fix his error. He truly did try and find out what it was that God wanted him to do. And this is the one time you'll ever hear me say intentions are as important if not more so than results.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3108341
Your history lesson takes me back to the other thread I had about whether religion or God would even exist in the minds of humans if the Bible were never written. But what has this got to do with 'rankings' in heaven? Just because the Jews came first, God considers them a 'higher class order'? Whatever happened to 'all men are created equal', or is that only true in politics?

Of all the things being said, I couldn't resist this one. Now I don't think I ever noticed the thread you refer to...
...However, humans have been seeking God long, long before the Bible was ever written. That is where human sacrifice came into play. Now that was what I would call scary religious folks. The Almighty sent his Torah (Bible) to stop the madness.
All mankind are created equal...some grow up to be child molesters, and Hitlers, others grow up to be doctors, teachers and sweet caring folks...which one would you rather spend forever with? Hey, when The Almighty gets tired of all this evil...guess what, or should I say who, do you think He going to leave out of his perfect new Kingdom?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3108544

Of all the things being said, I couldn't resist this one. Now I don't think I ever noticed the thread you refer to...
...However, humans have been seeking God long, long before the Bible was ever written. That is where human sacrifice came into play. Now that was what I would call scary religious folks. The Almighty sent his Torah (Bible) to stop the madness.
All mankind are created equal...some grow up to be child molesters, and Hitlers, others grow up to be doctors, teachers and sweet caring folks...which one would you rather spend forever with? Hey, when The Almighty gets tired of all this evil...guess what, or should I say who, do you think He going to leave out of his perfect new Kingdom?
Humans have seeked God before the inception of the bible? In what context? How far back in mankind are you going? Most sacrifices before the bible were done to appease the Earth and sky, not some Supreme Being. They made sacrifices to keep volcanos from erupting and to get water to fall from the sky. I don't think they visualized some 'afterlife' when they died. That concept began with the Bible.
If you follow the tenets of religion, he wouldn't leave anyone out, regardless of their past discretions. The only one's left behind, are the one's who don't believe the place even exists. It'a all a mental apparition. You can believe their is a heaven, or another 'place' you go to when you die, but the fact is, no one really knows. The only way to truly find out is to die. Once that happens, there's no way to come back to tell the rest of us if it's true or not. So until somebody does truly come back from the dead (not these 'I saw bright lights and felt my body floating above me' stories), heaven is only in the minds of the believers.
 
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