Is everyone equal in heaven?

[flower]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3111155
You legally bought the first book. There's no law that says you can't copy the words of a song out of it. My daughter's school band does this all the tiem. The school district and Texas Regional Music Board does it for students to have the sheet music to practice for competitions.
My reference to Obama was meant as a 'jab' - comparing your church assisting those who are needy, to Obama giving out the same kind of assistance to needy Americans. Sounds like your church is practicing Socialism..

You are incorrect…your school and the church pays to be allowed to copy the songs. If they do not pay they are pirating which is illegal. Just because you (they) purchased the book does not give permission to copy it in any way, shape or form. It says so right on the books, you must get permission first. Some demand money, and some don’t…

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111154
LOL..That is the problem my friend …THINKING instead of basing your belief on something. If what a person dreams up is the reality…I am sure Hitler is in that place, he believed all kinds of nutty stuff.
I have to push this one, why would you THINK it is blasphemy to say you have to DO something to enter eternal life? How about this one… G-d hands out As everyone passes, and as life unfolds, you lose points according to your own evils.
The truth however is not all that easy to explain. How do you know what “good” is? How do you know what “evil” is? What is “good works”? If you ask the right questions, then you on the road to finding the right answer.
That same Bible you are hanging your hat on so to speak teaches you NOT to lean to your own understanding. So what you think is irrelevant.
It is that Bible you just got finished acknowledging, which teaches you that you need good works, that there are ranks, and that you earn rewards.
Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mark 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, ……
Another example:
Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Also…the quote Love the Lord with all your might…is from the Shama prayer that every religious Jew recites every morning and evening.
Jesus never told anyone that DOING something to inherit eternal life was in error. He would surely have warned if thinking that was blasphemy.
Oooh. Do I sense a little Judeo vs. Christianity anamosity going on here?

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3111164
Oooh. Do I sense a little Judeo vs. Christianity anamosity going on here?

It is impossible to not voice ones personal beliefs when a religious debate takes place. Everyone has thoughts on what they believe…I always asked why they believed what they did. I also try and always explain why I believe as I do.
However…fighting is senseless. As long as the conversation is intelligent it is worth the read.
I love the search for truth. Religion fascinates me. When I find a person believing just for believing sake..I question the why behind it. That way, everyone benefits and has something ponder. Nothing is more enlightening than going out and trying to explain your own beliefs and where you got them from, then being challenged to prove it.

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111162
You are incorrect…your school and the church pays to be allowed to copy the songs. If they do not pay they are pirating which is illegal. Just because you (they) purchased the book does not give permission to copy it in any way, shape or form. It says so right on the books, you must get permission first. Some demand money, and some don’t…
That is 100% correct Flower......I had to research this because at one point in time we were copying...then we found out it was illegal....yikes (LOL)
BUT....there are SOME that say you can copy them....not very many though

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111173

It is impossible to not voice ones personal beliefs when a religious debate takes place. Everyone has thoughts on what they believe…I always asked why they believed what they did. I also try and always explain why I believe as I do.
However…fighting is senseless. As long as the conversation is intelligent it is worth the read.
I love the search for truth. Religion fascinates me. When I find a person believing just for believing sake..I question the why behind it. That way, everyone benefits and has something ponder. Nothing is more enlightening than going out and trying to explain your own beliefs and where you got them from, then being challenged to prove it.
You should see the conversations I have had with Islam believers. I liked the Quran, but their religion doesn’t match that either.

 

[tang master]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/3111118
Man, I've heard all kinds of stuff. That is a very popular one. It's how they can justify believing in both.
But I think it's kind of arrogant of us to think we have everything figured out... "Oh yeah, I know who you are, God. I know your tricks. The evolutionary process to make me. Yep, I got you figured out." This is the almighty God we're talking about... we're insects in comparison. And yet we've got it all figured out. I think the first step toward wisdom is the acceptance that you'll never know it all.
However, we should never be discouraged from learning and pursuing truth. Ignorance is the biggest obstacle everyone faces when pursuing truth. I wish we could search for truth unabated. I wish we could look at things without baggage.
yup! sometimes there really is no answer mostly because the answer would be irrelivant. but when you ask people would be suprised what the truth god wants to reveal to them is. athiests and the like usually have to make up a rationality to everything that seems supernatural. makes me sad

.

 

[darthtang aw]

mkroher, you are not open-minded as you have claimed. Otherwise you would not dismiss the bible as fiction. Truly openminded means all things are possible in your view. You have obviously stated otherwise.
You also claim to feel sorry for "believers". I usually don't insult or demean people I feel sorry for. I insult and demean people I feel are stupid.
You are the typical anti-christian...spew hate

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111154
LOL..That is the problem my friend …THINKING instead of basing your belief on something. If what a person dreams up is the reality…I am sure Hitler is in that place, he believed all kinds of nutty stuff.
I have to push this one, why would you THINK it is blasphemy to say you have to DO something to enter eternal life? How about this one… G-d hands out As everyone passes, and as life unfolds, you lose points according to your own evils.
You're still thinking from a human perspective... the point system is something we're using to describe God, but he doesn't use points. If you want to use it as a metaphor, it's actually a pretty good one, but I would use it slightly differently: The new testament makes very clear that you have the chance to gain one point from God and this point gets you into heaven. Ask God for it, and you get it.
Romans 8:28
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."
Why would he work for those who love him and then send us to hell?
When we gain salvation, it's irreversible:
Hebrews 13:5
"Never will I leave you, Never will I forsake you"
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111154
The truth however is not all that easy to explain. How do you know what “good” is? How do you know what “evil” is? What is “good works”? If you ask the right questions, then you on the road to finding the right answer.
That same Bible you are hanging your hat on so to speak teaches you NOT to lean to your own understanding. So what you think is irrelevant.
It is that Bible you just got finished acknowledging, which teaches you that you need good works, that there are ranks, and that you earn rewards.
I disagree... let me reference those verses again:
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111154
Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mark 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, ……
Another example:
Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?Luke 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
There are certain things we are called to "do" and when I say "do" I mean live by. Not "do" in the sense of labor. There's a big difference. I think you're confusing the word "do" with the word "works" .....
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
The boasting part is exactly what I'm talking about. When you have a point system and works are required to get to heaven, it opens the door to vanity, competition, and division amongst friends.... God purposely made faith something you didn't have to work for, specifically so "no one may boast" of their works in the faith.
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111154
Also…the quote Love the Lord with all your might…is from the Shama prayer that every religious Jew recites every morning and evening.
Jesus never told anyone that DOING something to inherit eternal life was in error. He would surely have warned if thinking that was blasphemy.
Again, reference above... to live by faith is doing something... nothing wrong with that. It's the "works" part I disagree with.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/3111194
You're still thinking from a human perspective... the point system is something we're using to describe God, but he doesn't use points. If you want to use it as a metaphor, it's actually a pretty good one, but I would use it slightly differently: The new testament makes very clear that you have the chance to gain one point from God and this point gets you into heaven. Ask God for it, and you get it.
Romans 8:28
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."
Why would he work for those who love him and then send us to hell?
LOL..HELL is the grave in Hebrew..So everyone will someday go to hell…he isn't going to send everyone who isn't a christian to a fire to burn forever. That fire is for the false prophet and his followers.
When we gain salvation, it's irreversible: G-d never left, nor did he ever forsake Israel…but he destroyed those who disobeyed him… Heb 10:28-31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 13:5
"Never will I leave you, Never will I forsake you"
I disagree... let me reference those verses again:
There are certain things we are called to "do" and when I say "do" I mean live by. Not "do" in the sense of labor. There's a big difference. I think you're confusing the word "do" with the word "works" .....Do and works are the same thing in Hebrew thought…the Author was a Jew, he thought as a Jew, so when he said do and works he meant just that.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
The boasting part is exactly what I'm talking about. When you have a point system and works are required to get to heaven, it opens the door to vanity, competition, and division amongst friends.... God purposely made faith something you didn't have to work for, specifically so "no one may boast" of their works in the faith.
Let me explain this way…Not one law promises eternal life. Long life on earth yes..health, yes..no fear from enemies. Yes…. but eternal life is a gift..however there is quite a bit more to it than a “sinner’s prayer” nobody was ever in all the scriptures or letters written “saved” with a magic prayer.
Again, reference above... to live by faith is doing something... nothing wrong with that. It's the "works" part I disagree with.
When the young man in my first post asked what he needed to enter eternal life Jesus told him follow the commandments, AND follow him.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3111175
That is 100% correct Flower......I had to research this because at one point in time we were copying...then we found out it was illegal....yikes (LOL)
BUT....there are SOME that say you can copy them....not very many though
If you say so. My daughter has been in band going on 7 years now, and every piece of music she plays is a photocopy from some music book that was purchased. Every school I know does this.
Look at all these web sites that list the words to practically every song known to man. You think they're paying royalities to do that?

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111173

It is impossible to not voice ones personal beliefs when a religious debate takes place. Everyone has thoughts on what they believe…I always asked why they believed what they did. I also try and always explain why I believe as I do.
However…fighting is senseless. As long as the conversation is intelligent it is worth the read.
I love the search for truth. Religion fascinates me. When I find a person believing just for believing sake..I question the why behind it. That way, everyone benefits and has something ponder. Nothing is more enlightening than going out and trying to explain your own beliefs and where you got them from, then being challenged to prove it.

You may be fascinated with religion, but it is very apparent to me you think the only VALID religion is Judaism...

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3111248
If you say so. My daughter has been in band going on 7 years now, and every piece of music she plays is a photocopy from some music book that was purchased. Every school I know does this.
Look at all these web sites that list the words to practically every song known to man. You think they're paying royalities to do that?
LOL...I'm not looking to argue....I don't do that...All I am saying is...that the music we use (we=the church I work for)...has to be purchased by the piece....I can not and will not state anything about your daughter's music, cause I have no clue...so in your case that may be true, in our case it is not...(most of the time)

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3111249
You may be fascinated with religion, but it is very apparent to me you think the only VALID religion is Judaism...
Well..sort of…After many years of searching. I came to the following conclusions (thus far)
Original Christianity was in fact Judaism, they believed Yeshua (Jesus) was the promised Messiah, that and allowing Gentiles to worship and eat with them was the only difference. I am a Christian according to those standards.
I have discovered by much reading and study that modern Christianity is riddled with pagan Greek customs and therefore false according to the books (Torah and letters (new testament) I set my standards by.
I do believe that Mohammad had indeed seen visions and so the Quran has valid teachings. HOWEVER Islam does not follow the Quran. The book was corrupted when they placed the smaller earlier writings in the back, and the larger later recitations in the front. This created a twist in logic and the religion that was meant to unite Jews and Christians took on a life of its own, abandoning both. This renders the religion invalid. Again, my opinion.
I am afraid idols and the worship of the sun and moon are out, I just can't swallow that they are gods. So that does in the Indians, Buddhists and the Eastern religions.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3111248
If you say so. My daughter has been in band going on 7 years now, and every piece of music she plays is a photocopy from some music book that was purchased. Every school I know does this.
Look at all these web sites that list the words to practically every song known to man. You think they're paying royalities to do that?
There is indeed allot of pirating on the web…schools pay to use the music sheets they copy. Schools and churches are the ones that pay, and the rip offs go unpunished. Some music is so old that nobody cares if you use it or not. The more modern music is watched more closely.
People get away with it…nobody really cares that much.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111275
Well..sort of…After many years of searching. I came to the following conclusions (thus far)
Original Christianity was in fact Judaism, they believed Yeshua (Jesus) was the promised Messiah, that and allowing Gentiles to worship and eat with them was the only difference. I am a Christian according to those standards.
I have discovered by much reading and study that modern Christianity is riddled with pagan Greek customs and therefore false according to the books (Torah and letters (new testament) I set my standards by.
I do believe that Mohammad had indeed seen visions and so the Quran has valid teachings. HOWEVER Islam does not follow the Quran. The book was corrupted when they placed the smaller earlier writings in the back, and the larger later recitations in the front. This created a twist in logic and the religion that was meant to unite Jews and Christians took on a life of its own, abandoning both. This renders the religion invalid. Again, my opinion.
I am afraid idols and the worship of the sun and moon are out, I just can't swallow that they are gods. So that does in the Indians, Buddhists and the Eastern religions.
OK. Sorry, but I never got the Jewish faith. I grew up Catholic, and had several friends that who practice Judaism. We always thought they were bass-ackwards because they didn't celebrate Christmas, and believed in Hanakkah (or however you spell it). I had one friend almost tear me a new one because I walked up to his door and took that little 'scroll-thingy' off.

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3111314
OK. Sorry, but I never got the Jewish faith. I grew up Catholic, and had several friends that who practice Judaism. We always thought they were bass-ackwards because they didn't celebrate Christmas, and believed in Hanakkah (or however you spell it). I had one friend almost tear me a new one because I walked up to his door and took that little 'scroll-thingy' off.

I grew up Catholic too.....LOL...scroll thingy

 

[meowzer]

And in NY...we celebrated ALL religions....I still know all the word to the Dreidel song
OMG....now it's in my headAHHHHHHHHH

 

[uneverno]

Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3111175
That is 100% correct Flower......I had to research this because at one point in time we were copying...then we found out it was illegal....yikes (LOL)
BUT....there are SOME that say you can copy them....not very many though
It depends on whether or not the song is public domain. Most of what was written prior to 1900 is public domain, meaning you can do what you want with it. Certain exceptions apply, but not many.
Reproducing a recording OTOH, is not the same as copying some lyrics and chord progressions.
It's a fine line, but think about it for a moment. If it were completely illegal to do w/o paying royalties, wedding bands couldn't exist.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3111314
OK. Sorry, but I never got the Jewish faith. I grew up Catholic, and had several friends that who practice Judaism. We always thought they were bass-ackwards because they didn't celebrate Christmas, and believed in Hanakkah (or however you spell it). I had one friend almost tear me a new one because I walked up to his door and took that little 'scroll-thingy' off.
You never mess with the Mezuzah, we are commanded to write the commandments on the doorposts of our houses and gates. The scroll inside is written in Hebrew and very expensive. The Mezuzah is the container of the commandment written on the scroll that you attach to the door.
Some believe to have it attached prevents evil from entering the house. Some believe that when a righteous person is very sick and about to die, you remove the mezuzah so death can enter. Death nor evil can enter the home of the righteous who post the mezuzah as commanded.
So you did very bad to remove it.

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111226
When the young man in my first post asked what he needed to enter eternal life Jesus told him follow the commandments, AND follow him.
I agree with this. But it has nothing to do with going door to door and seeing how many people you can "save" - THAT's what I mean by 'works'... people can't come back to church at the end of the day and say "I got 4 people to believe" and someone else say "I got 9 people to believe, so **raspberries**" Do you get what I mean? Yes, it is about following God actively. If that's what you mean by "doing" then I agree with you.
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111226
LOL..HELL is the grave in Hebrew..So everyone will someday go to hell…he isn't going to send everyone who isn't a christian to a fire to burn forever. That fire is for the false prophet and his followers.
You know what I mean by hell. There is no need to split hairs like this and say "well TECHNICALLY it means a grave." I'm talking about the hell where satan resides. If you've read anything about hell in the New Testament, you'll know what I'm talking about.
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3111226
Let me explain this way…Not one law promises eternal life. Long life on earth yes..health, yes..no fear from enemies. Yes…. but eternal life is a gift..however there is quite a bit more to it than a “sinner’s prayer” nobody was ever in all the scriptures or letters written “saved” with a magic prayer.
That's what those under the Judaic Law believe. I respectfully disagree. I believe there is such a thing as a sinners prayer, although it is completely useless if the person doing the praying is parroting it off without a care in the world. It's beyond the prayer itself and really all about the heart turning to God and receiving Him. Yes, that's what I believe. Receive God sincerely - go to heaven. You'll find that it's not too uncommon of a belief and there's plenty of scripture to back it up.
I will, however, completely agree that eternal life is absolutely yes a gift from God.