Is it natural for people to spend their lives committed to just one partner?

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I And also, as the resident Christian on these boards, aren't you in the business of forgiving people for their sins?
 
I dont think she is christian. Flower believes in HaShem, not the traditional Christian God.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/20#post_3505541
What i get from that rant is that we should club a potential mate in the head and drag her back to our man caves. Some people are more "committed" than others. As humans, our psychology is a lot more complex than wolves and other animals. Yes, we still are animals, perhaps the smartest and most deadly of all animals. But does that mean we have no impulse control when it comes to reproducing? No.
As long as i am with my wife, i am and will always be faithful. Now, if we get divorced then that is another story. The question of "is it possible to have a lifelong commitment anymore?" Is illogical because life is too diverse to answer that question definitively. You have to decide for yourself and your situation and no one can tell you what to do. Personally, i feel like you should do what makes you happy, because you only have one life to live.
Snake, I know some people can't continue the marriage (lifelong commitment), for whatever reason, and they should indeed separate, divorce and move on...I agree and think you are correct, we only have one life to live. Nobody could expect another to stay and live their life in unhappiness.
However, cheating is a whole other critter entirely. It hurts the other person and destroys the entire family. So I disagree we should do what makes us personally happy with total disregard for everyone else in home. People do not cheat to reproduce, we are not animals, we have a sense of right and wrong. I think people cheat because they think the grass is greener on the other side, and they lack the internal fortitude to tell the other person it's over... anything that makes YOU happy but ruins another persons life, including your own children, makes it wrong to pursue.
Some folks are indeed more committed than others, get out of the relationship, but don't pretend to love someone, and sleep with someone else...it is the ultimate kick in the teeth, stab in the back thing you can do to someone.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/20#post_3505543
And also, as the resident Christian on these boards, aren't you in the business of forgiving people for their sins?
LOL...Snake is correct...I personally believe modern Christianity is flawed, and I am not in the business of forgiving anyone, for that all mankind I'm sure rejoices. Forgivness is HaShem's place, and I know according to the books, cheating is not the unforgivable sin. People do lots of things that are considered "sin". That doesn't mean I hate all people who do them, it just means I don't agree it's a normal thing and people don't have a choice.
If my beloved cheated I would feel too betrayed to "forgive" him and take him back. Others do take their spouses back... and they live many happy years together afterward, others go on to be cheated on over and over again. My rant was on the concept of the act of cheating, I find it so distastful and disgusting that I can't stand it, and refuse to make some excuse for it. I say leave and find happiness elsewhere but never, ever hurt someone so deeply as to cheat on them.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/20#post_3505536
On the deepest biological levels were just animals. Just like fight or flight. That's not an emotional decision, that's a survival one. It's a survival mechanism. In it's own way, sleeping with multiple people because your body tells you that you're a good match to reproduce could be considered a survival mechanism. It's not an excuse to cheat per say, but you have to wonder why so many good people do, don't you?
I am not saying that variety isn't the spice of life. If someone wants to be single and play the field their whole life it isn't any of my business and I wouldn't look down on someone for living that lifestyle. It's people who commit to a relationship and cheat I take issue with. Horny isn't an excuse to betray your partner.
 

crimzy

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/20#post_3505538
Quick to judge, are you $%*$#ing kidding me????? Biological survival thing????? I'm going with them being a terrible person theory.
Sorry, and I know you love your parents...but cheating is WRONG!!! It does indeed make them less a person. What did you learn from your cheating parents....well for starters you seem to think it's perfectly normal. You don't condone it??? Well it makes me want to puke.
The cheaters in this world have the morals of a pig, AKA...if it feels good it must be right. What kind of disgusting pig needs to cheat? Any normal adult intelligent person has enough sense to keep their cloths on, and not allow their sexual hunger to destroy their entire family. Anyone who puts the desire for sex above their children, and another person they swore to be faithful to, is the lowest pond scum of human trash. There is no excuse for it...period. They are right up there with the pedophiles, they can't control their sexual urges either, what they want and hunger for is all that matters to them...to hell with who it hurts and damages for a lifetime.
I have never cheated, and I have never been cheated on, my attitude about such behavior was ingrained since childhood....along with knowing you are supposed to knock before entering somebodies house, and ask if you want something and not just grab it like a caveman out of somebodies hand. It's a matter of simple respect for another person.
If you don't want to be in a marriage anymore, get a divorce, and if you think you really have a free right to cheat because it must be normal, with the attitude that everyone does it...do everyone a favor and not get married in the first place. Why destroy everyone in your family because you can't control your sexual desires..
When we were dating...my husband asked me once what I would do if he ever cheated...I did a dance out of the room...foot over foot sideways until I left the room singing Do da do da...stuck my head back into the doorway to face him and asked if he had any questions...he said no, he understood loud and clear. I would be gone, and there wouldn't be any claims of "it was mistake" our relationship would be over period. I also understand how some idiots get their fool heads shot off, that kind of deep betrayal gets people killed.
I would never blame the other person, I would blame the person who promised to love me until death do us part. If you can't hold on to the oath, at least have enough respect, to be up front and get a divorce or break up like an adult. The wrost lowest forms of breaking up such as a Dear John letter, text, or phone message shows more respect to a person than cheating on them.
OK, forgive me but I have to take this to a very philosophical and abstract level...

First, I believe that it is a fallacy to believe that someone is inherently superior or inferior / better or worse / more or less moral. To believe that takes as a given that there is an inherent right and wrong, an inherent good and evil and, logic would dictate a g-d and the devil. Believing in these things can provide significant comfort to people because it provides each an opportunity to feel superior, more moral, closer to g-d or whatever than the other person and, thus we feel good about ourselves and safe.
If you do look at us as simply another species in the animal kingdom, then our choices and differences as people are no different than the differences in personalities between two dogs or fish. I don't cheat but I'm not better than the person who does, I've simply made different choices. My ex wife (and her mom BTW), cheated on husbands, and in doing so found the loves of their lives and built lives with the "affair" (happily I assume).
So many people have cheated and/or made other mistakes in their lives, even those righteous ones who claim "I have never cheated". Whether their magnanimous claim is true or not doesn't matter because it doesn't make someone better or worse than the next guy. One person may cheat, the next may be abusive, the next may cheat on taxes, not provide for their children, gamble, lie about their ages, whatever. Let the one without sins cast aspertions (sp?).
Even if you are a religious person, and believe in g-d, then you probably agree that all people sin. And virtually every religion provides some mechanism for forgiveness. I don't believe that we are to judge one another, especially for something so personal. What if a person cheats because they were abused? What if they cheat because their self-image became so low that the new person was an outlet to feel beautiful or desired again? I don't really know the ins and outs but I know that I have made LOTS of mistakes in my life. Lots of mistakes and probably still counting, lol. JMO...
 

crimzy

Active Member
In related news, I just got the following message on facebook:
"Deleting you in order to save my marriage. Be well.
***
not my issue.. my husband's.. taking off everyone I've ever *edit*.. not that the list is so long..."
About 5 minutes later, she sent me a new friend request. Not sure what the moral of the story is... maybe that crimzy is an irresistible dude...
Crim (just referred to myself in the 3rd person) zy
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
The one thing that I have found that has helped my relationship with my wife is assertiveness. Not exactly being an a$$, but holding my ground and having a pair. I firmly believe that is what most women want - is a MAN, not a pushover. Since I have been more assertive - my relationship with my wife has improved greatly. Maybe some people aren't cut out to have a long term relationship, or can't handle the changes in their spouses personalities over time?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505555
OK, forgive me but I have to take this to a very philosophical and abstract level...

First, I believe that it is a fallacy to believe that someone is inherently superior or inferior / better or worse / more or less moral. To believe that takes as a given that there is an inherent right and wrong, an inherent good and evil and, logic would dictate a g-d and the devil. Believing in these things can provide significant comfort to people because it provides each an opportunity to feel superior, more moral, closer to g-d or whatever than the other person and, thus we feel good about ourselves and safe.
If you do look at us as simply another species in the animal kingdom, then our choices and differences as people are no different than the differences in personalities between two dogs or fish. I don't cheat but I'm not better than the person who does, I've simply made different choices. My ex wife (and her mom BTW), cheated on husbands, and in doing so found the loves of their lives and built lives with the "affair" (happily I assume).
So many people have cheated and/or made other mistakes in their lives, even those righteous ones who claim "I have never cheated". Whether their magnanimous claim is true or not doesn't matter because it doesn't make someone better or worse than the next guy. One person may cheat, the next may be abusive, the next may cheat on taxes, not provide for their children, gamble, lie about their ages, whatever. Let the one without sins cast aspertions (sp?).
Even if you are a religious person, and believe in g-d, then you probably agree that all people sin. And virtually every religion provides some mechanism for forgiveness. I don't believe that we are to judge one another, especially for something so personal. What if a person cheats because they were abused? What if they cheat because their self-image became so low that the new person was an outlet to feel beautiful or desired again? I don't really know the ins and outs but I know that I have made LOTS of mistakes in my life. Lots of mistakes and probably still counting, lol. JMO...
Seriously? You think someone willing to break their marriage vow is no worse than anyone else? DUDE! It's a matter of character and trust. They are breaking their word to the person they are supposed to be closer to any other in the world. It's nothing to do with religion. Anyone who is willing to do that, well to me their word is useless. Now if someone who is married meets someone else and decides to get divorced or even separates to go after that person is a difference story. Relationships fail for many reasons but how you end it says a lot about you.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505621
The one thing that I have found that has helped my relationship with my wife is assertiveness. Not exactly being an a$$, but holding my ground and having a pair. I firmly believe that is what most women want - is a MAN, not a pushover. Since I have been more assertive - my relationship with my wife has improved greatly. Maybe some people aren't cut out to have a long term relationship, or can't handle the changes in their spouses personalities over time?
I agree with reefaff 100%
I read once that many women marry and think they can fix any flaws they think their fellow has. Men marry because they are sure they have found the perfect mate. She wants him to change to HER idea of perfection, and the man doesn't want his wife to ever change. Both are unrealistic.
There is no such thing as perfection, if you can accept your partner for who they are, your chances of staying wed increases quite a bit.
A real "man" is not a bully who has a pair and asserts himself. I'm not sure of what circumstances you refer to, but it just didn't sound good. I will say that if we can voice our desires and dislikes in a constructive way...each will know what the other expects and avoid unnecessary fighting. Fights happen when both parties come to a head to head disagreement and both stand their ground, a little give from both in compromise will go a long way.
LOL...My late husband was a screamer...he yelled about everything from the screen door being left open by the kids to bang in the wind, to what we have for dinner. As the adult in our relationship I put an alarm on the screen door so as long as it was open it blasted, it wasn't long before the kids (teens by the way) hated the noise and closed the door as quick as possible. As for dinner, if he complained, (AKA having a fit about it) he wouldn't get that for dinner again unless he made it himself. I would cook the hamburger, but he could paint his bun with his choice of condiments and stack the tomato and lettuce in the proper order....that's right, the man had a certain way he wanted his hamburger and he would throw it across the room like a two year old if it wasn't right. I know about being married to a bully....That characteristic was the huge flaw in his personality, I loved him anyway, and as I explained, found a way to live with him.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505621
The one thing that I have found that has helped my relationship with my wife is assertiveness. Not exactly being an a$$, but holding my ground and having a pair. I firmly believe that is what most women want - is a MAN, not a pushover. Since I have been more assertive - my relationship with my wife has improved greatly. Maybe some people aren't cut out to have a long term relationship, or can't handle the changes in their spouses personalities over time?
flower, you need to read for context better instead of skimming over what someone has said.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Not so sure how well that would work, Seth for a woman who has a dominant type of personality. I know there are a lot of women out there who would much rather control their men.
All I can say is that im glad that I waited untill my 30s to get married. Everyone that I know who got married in their early-mid 20s are all divorced now. Its not a lot of people in this day and age who seem to realy grasp the concept of what it means to be commited and realize that it takes a lot of self sacrifice sometimes in order to make it work and keep it working.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I do think that humans are strongly sexual beings, and frequently not just for one partner during a lifetime. We are also highly intelligent and emotional beings who have the ability to make decisions about what is right and wrong.
By the time you decide to get married, you have made that commitment. Breaking that commitment for sex is just wrong and demonstrates weak moral character. If you don't want to continue with a marriage, then be up front and say so. Sneaking around to have sex is totally disrespectful of the person you supposedly love, your kids if you have them, as well as yourself.
While we do have strong instincts, especially about sexuality, we are still human beings, not animals.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505621
The one thing that I have found that has helped my relationship with my wife is assertiveness. Not exactly being an a$$, but holding my ground and having a pair. I firmly believe that is what most women want - is a MAN, not a pushover. Since I have been more assertive - my relationship with my wife has improved greatly.
I think it was just a bit in the way it read. Somewhat Neanderthal-ish. LOL
Yes, most women do want a man, and most men want a woman. But the variables of what attracts one to the another is so infinite. All we can speak to is our experience, not everyone else's.
 

crimzy

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505626
Seriously? You think someone willing to break their marriage vow is no worse than anyone else? DUDE! It's a matter of character and trust. They are breaking their word to the person they are supposed to be closer to any other in the world. It's nothing to do with religion. Anyone who is willing to do that, well to me their word is useless. Now if someone who is married meets someone else and decides to get divorced or even separates to go after that person is a difference story. Relationships fail for many reasons but how you end it says a lot about you.
All men are created equal, brother. That may be just rhetoric to you but those words actually mean something.
The value of a man can only be assessed in 2 ways: (1) a person's determination of his/her self-worth, and (2) g-d's judgment of us (if he exists). Everything else is just fallable man judging others as less worthy than himself because that's what he wants to believe.
You want to define a person based on an act of indiscretion? That's how simplistic it is to feel superior to someone else. If you don't use infidelity to determine that someone is less worthy than you then don't worry, you can look to any other areas of vice, weakness, insecurity, drug or alcohol abuse, or a million other actions/qualities that can make you feel better about yourself. Some may feel superior because they have more money than another, live in a bigger house, or drive a nicer car. It doesn't really matter what criteria to use to judge someone's worth as inferior, there is always a way to boost yourself up over another. My point generally speaking is that the idea of superiority and inferiority among people is a fallacy.
Take my situation for example... my ex cheated and I didn't. Does that mean that I'm a better person than her? What if I always wanted to cheat, fantasized about other women, and avoided bars/night clubs because I didn't trust myself in that situation? Does the act itself define a person? If I had cheated, I don't think I'd be sitting here a different person... no better or worse.
What if you found out that Abraham Lincoln or Martin Luther King Jr. had cheated on their spouses... does that redefine who they are?
We all have weaknesses, insecurities, fears, flaws, vices and such. There is no such thing as superiority and, if there was, we are not the authority to make that judgment anyway. Let's not take such a generalized, simplistic view of a person's value... to do so reflects more about those judging than the one being judged.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505653
flower, you need to read for context better instead of skimming over what someone has said.
Seth, Like Beth pointed out, we can only speak from personal experience, I did say it just sounded off, not that I thought you had or would have done anything wrong. The reason it sounded off to me is because I did lived with an emotional bully for 34 years. I was a little concerned with the thought, that if someone else were to take to heart about feeling like a "real" man because he stood his ground and asserted himself. My old man would have eaten that up as an argument to back up his way of dealing with things as right....and I don't think he was anything like you at all.
Crimzy...moral character is indeed defined by how a person reacts to different things in their lives. Yes I would say, given the scenario you posted
, that you had considerably more moral character than your X. Would I think less of good old Abe or REVEREND Martin Luther King Jr if I knew he was a womanizer...yes. Would it diminish what good in life he did accomplish...no.
Judging a persons response to a given situation, is not judging a person as forever evil, just that the one thing being discussed is up for scrutiny. Cheating in a committed relationship does show a very low moral character. Does that mean I would not do business with, or help out if they had a need...no.
Regardless, there is simply no excuse for cheating, we are all free to leave if we are unhappy in a situation, it's a choice. Nowadays with AIDS and herpes...besides the damage to the marriage, a cheater puts the health of the spouse at risk on top of everything else. When you "sleep" with someone, you are sleeping with everyone they ever slept with.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505664
All men are created equal, brother. That may be just rhetoric to you but those words actually mean something.
The value of a man can only be assessed in 2 ways: (1) a person's determination of his/her self-worth, and (2) g-d's judgment of us (if he exists). Everything else is just fallable man judging others as less worthy than himself because that's what he wants to believe.
You want to define a person based on an act of indiscretion? That's how simplistic it is to feel superior to someone else. If you don't use infidelity to determine that someone is less worthy than you then don't worry, you can look to any other areas of vice, weakness, insecurity, drug or alcohol abuse, or a million other actions/qualities that can make you feel better about yourself. Some may feel superior because they have more money than another, live in a bigger house, or drive a nicer car. It doesn't really matter what criteria to use to judge someone's worth as inferior, there is always a way to boost yourself up over another. My point generally speaking is that the idea of superiority and inferiority among people is a fallacy.
Take my situation for example... my ex cheated and I didn't. Does that mean that I'm a better person than her? What if I always wanted to cheat, fantasized about other women, and avoided bars/night clubs because I didn't trust myself in that situation? Does the act itself define a person? If I had cheated, I don't think I'd be sitting here a different person... no better or worse.
What if you found out that Abraham Lincoln or Martin Luther King Jr. had cheated on their spouses... does that redefine who they are?
We all have weaknesses, insecurities, fears, flaws, vices and such. There is no such thing as superiority and, if there was, we are not the authority to make that judgment anyway. Let's not take such a generalized, simplistic view of a person's value... to do so reflects more about those judging than the one being judged.
I always kind of thought that was interesting as well. People love to pick and choose who and what they persecute as a "terrible" act, which in turn makes a "terrible" person in their mind. I guess cheating is one of the big ones because of the fact it involves two (or more people). If you're looking at porn all day, cheating on your taxes, stealing, drinking, drugging, etc; it's typically a "me" problem. I'm not one of those people who say all sin is equal, because I don't think it is. Don't try and tell me putting a bullet between a guys eyes is the same as stealing a pack of gum, because that's silly.
I genuinely believe that humans, in general, are good for the most part. I think everyone has a moral compass that they like to follow as best they can. However, I think that there are certain things in your brain that cause you make stupid decisions. Whether it's cheating (the endorphins from sex), drugs (along the same lines as sex), the thrill of getting away with something you shouldn't. Your brain typically rewards you for whatever it is you are doing that is "bad". So yes, I know we are all humans which makes us different than the other animals, but whether you want to admit it or not, we're still primal in a lot of ways deep down. If we weren't, then no human would ever do anything "bad", because we'd all be refined and smart enough to make the right choices.
And to what Crimzy mentioned, it's so, so, so hypocritical for religious folks (at least Christians) to judge others for their decisions. Jesus hung with the bad crowd his whole life, forgiving, saving, and changing the lives of those who were sinners. I think a lot of Christians forget that. Read Matthew Chapter 7. If you really call yourself a Christian you should be able to decipher what that means, and how you should exercise it in your daily life...
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505682
it's so, so, so hypocritical for religious folks (at least Christians) to judge others for their decisions. Jesus hung with the bad crowd his whole life, forgiving, saving, and changing the lives of those who were sinners. I think a lot of Christians forget that. Read Matthew Chapter 7. If you really call yourself a Christian you should be able to decipher what that means, and how you should exercise it in your daily life...
Friend,
I just can't leave this one untouched. Apparently you have not got a clue of what being a Christian really means, so being the anal person I am...let me educate you. I hear so many people with the exact same thought line you are expressing here, and it really needs to be rectified.
Jesus never forgave a single person that was unrepentant. He hung out with the not so rigid Orthodox Jews. Jesus healed the sick, and told the person to go and sin no more according to the accounts of the gospels. What did he "save" anyone from? Frankly every single human on Earth is a sinner. Jesus hung out with the kind of people who didn't wash their hands before eating, which is a Jewish custom and a ritual, not the same kind of hand washing folks do before dinner.
Being Christian means only one thing, and one thing only...that you believe that the promised Messiah has come. It does not mean you walk the earth sin free, it does not mean you you are expected to forgive all men every horrible thing they do. If someone asks YOU to forgive them for some wrong they have done to YOU...you are taught a very Jewish line of thought of how you SHOULD behave (Jesus was a good rabbi) he taught people to forgive the person who wrongs you if they ask for your forgiveness
, and when asked how many times...he says 70 X 7...because most folks will do the same wrong to you again, and keep asking for forgiveness, such as drug addicts and repeat cheaters. It is not a Christians responsibility as a Christian to forgive Harry the neighbor down the street for something he did to someone else. It isn't judging someone to tell them they are doing something wrong....in fact if you are a "Good" person, you are doing the offender a favor by giving them a warning of their wrong, so they can repent. Ezekiel 33/8-9

So walking around this world, and every time a religious person (which means they believe there is a God) does something YOU judge not very "Christian like" you think you have a stone to toss at their glass house. There are non-religious and religious people that have very high morals, and there are some with the mentality of an alley cat. People are just people, and if they believe Jesus is the Messiah, they can call themselves a Christian until the end of time and beyond, and they would be absolutely correct to do so.
 
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