theclemsonkid
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505700
Friend,
I just can't leave this one untouched. Apparently you have not got a clue of what being a Christian really means, so being the anal person I am...let me educate you. I hear so many people with the exact same thought line you are expressing here, and it really needs to be rectified.
Jesus never forgave a single person that was unrepentant. He hung out with the not so rigid Orthodox Jews. Jesus healed the sick, and told the person to go and sin no more according to the accounts of the gospels. What did he "save" anyone from? Frankly every single human on Earth is a sinner. Jesus hung out with the kind of people who didn't wash their hands before eating, which is a Jewish custom and a ritual, not the same kind of hand washing folks do before dinner.
Being Christian means only one thing, and one thing only...that you believe that the promised Messiah has come. It does not mean you walk the earth sin free, it does not mean you you are expected to forgive all men every horrible thing they do. If someone asks YOU to forgive them for some wrong they have done to YOU...you are taught a very Jewish line of thought of how you SHOULD behave (Jesus was a good rabbi) he taught people to forgive the person who wrongs you if they ask for your forgiveness, and when asked how many times...he says 70 X 7...because most folks will do the same wrong to you again, and keep asking for forgiveness, such as drug addicts and repeat cheaters. It is not a Christians responsibility as a Christian to forgive Harry the neighbor down the street for something he did to someone else. It isn't judging someone to tell them they are doing something wrong....in fact if you are a "Good" person, you are doing the offender a favor by giving them a warning of their wrong, so they can repent. Ezekiel 33/8-9
So walking around this world, and every time a religious person (which means they believe there is a God) does something YOU judge not very "Christian like" you think you have a stone to toss at their glass house. There are non-religious and religious people that have very high morals, and there are some with the mentality of an alley cat. People are just people, and if they believe Jesus is the Messiah, they can call themselves a Christian until the end of time and beyond, and they would be absolutely correct to do so.
I appreciate your time to post. And I also understand that Jesus forgave those who repented their sins. I think that the Bible in it's current version can be very contradictory of itself at times, including Matthew 7:1 vs. your Ezekiel 33:8-9. I think the gist of what they're preaching, is that everyone is a sinner, and instead of worrying about crucifying others for their sins, you need to worry about your sins first and foremost. The whole let he without sin cast the first stone thing.
How can you differentiate "telling someone they are doing something wrong" versus coming across as someone who is being judgmental? Unless you preface everything with "I too am a sinner, and I only say this in order to offer you an opinion of the perceived wrong you are doing", then you can't. On top of that, there are only two people in the world who know why anyone does anything, and that's the person doing it, and God. I appreciate that some people think they know what's best, and why people do what they do; but do they really?
Would it make any difference to you if you found out a guy who was abusive with a girlfriend was thrown down the stairs and had both his legs broken by his drunken step-father as a child? Let's say you catch someone stealing some food, only to find out that he has been unemployed for two years and literally has no money to eat. You (and I don't mean you specifically, just humans in general) are not a deity and you will never be privy to the information to truly "judge" or tell someone they "are doing something wrong".
I suppose you can take whatever information you have, and if you feel comfortable, you can chastise someone for their choices, but I don't feel like it's your place. People know the difference between good and bad generally. I don't think anyone needs to point out to someone that cheating on a spouse is a bad thing. As for that Ezekiel passage, that almost implies that people are so generally dumb and misunderstood that you have to police your fellow man to let them know the difference between good and bad? I think you and I naturally know what's right and wrong. There are of course exceptions (sociopaths and such) who have mental illnesses, but generally speaking, everyone should know what they should and shouldn't be doing.
I am a firm believer that the modern American Christian church is losing millions of people a year because there are those who like to decide who and what to judge, based on their view of scripture. You may be one of them, and I completely respect your point of view, I just don't agree with it.
We're all sinners, and no one gets a free pass if they keep doing the same thing over and over. However, for those who slip up once (be it cheating, or whatever else) and are thrown to the wolves by their fellow man, what does that say about you? If you are readily and willing to repent, that should be God's decision to forgive you. What it shouldn't be is your next door neighbor casting you as "scum of the earth" and "on the same level as pedophiles".
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393879/is-it-natural-for-people-to-spend-their-lives-committed-to-just-one-partner/40#post_3505700
Friend,
I just can't leave this one untouched. Apparently you have not got a clue of what being a Christian really means, so being the anal person I am...let me educate you. I hear so many people with the exact same thought line you are expressing here, and it really needs to be rectified.
Jesus never forgave a single person that was unrepentant. He hung out with the not so rigid Orthodox Jews. Jesus healed the sick, and told the person to go and sin no more according to the accounts of the gospels. What did he "save" anyone from? Frankly every single human on Earth is a sinner. Jesus hung out with the kind of people who didn't wash their hands before eating, which is a Jewish custom and a ritual, not the same kind of hand washing folks do before dinner.
Being Christian means only one thing, and one thing only...that you believe that the promised Messiah has come. It does not mean you walk the earth sin free, it does not mean you you are expected to forgive all men every horrible thing they do. If someone asks YOU to forgive them for some wrong they have done to YOU...you are taught a very Jewish line of thought of how you SHOULD behave (Jesus was a good rabbi) he taught people to forgive the person who wrongs you if they ask for your forgiveness, and when asked how many times...he says 70 X 7...because most folks will do the same wrong to you again, and keep asking for forgiveness, such as drug addicts and repeat cheaters. It is not a Christians responsibility as a Christian to forgive Harry the neighbor down the street for something he did to someone else. It isn't judging someone to tell them they are doing something wrong....in fact if you are a "Good" person, you are doing the offender a favor by giving them a warning of their wrong, so they can repent. Ezekiel 33/8-9
So walking around this world, and every time a religious person (which means they believe there is a God) does something YOU judge not very "Christian like" you think you have a stone to toss at their glass house. There are non-religious and religious people that have very high morals, and there are some with the mentality of an alley cat. People are just people, and if they believe Jesus is the Messiah, they can call themselves a Christian until the end of time and beyond, and they would be absolutely correct to do so.
I appreciate your time to post. And I also understand that Jesus forgave those who repented their sins. I think that the Bible in it's current version can be very contradictory of itself at times, including Matthew 7:1 vs. your Ezekiel 33:8-9. I think the gist of what they're preaching, is that everyone is a sinner, and instead of worrying about crucifying others for their sins, you need to worry about your sins first and foremost. The whole let he without sin cast the first stone thing.
How can you differentiate "telling someone they are doing something wrong" versus coming across as someone who is being judgmental? Unless you preface everything with "I too am a sinner, and I only say this in order to offer you an opinion of the perceived wrong you are doing", then you can't. On top of that, there are only two people in the world who know why anyone does anything, and that's the person doing it, and God. I appreciate that some people think they know what's best, and why people do what they do; but do they really?
Would it make any difference to you if you found out a guy who was abusive with a girlfriend was thrown down the stairs and had both his legs broken by his drunken step-father as a child? Let's say you catch someone stealing some food, only to find out that he has been unemployed for two years and literally has no money to eat. You (and I don't mean you specifically, just humans in general) are not a deity and you will never be privy to the information to truly "judge" or tell someone they "are doing something wrong".
I suppose you can take whatever information you have, and if you feel comfortable, you can chastise someone for their choices, but I don't feel like it's your place. People know the difference between good and bad generally. I don't think anyone needs to point out to someone that cheating on a spouse is a bad thing. As for that Ezekiel passage, that almost implies that people are so generally dumb and misunderstood that you have to police your fellow man to let them know the difference between good and bad? I think you and I naturally know what's right and wrong. There are of course exceptions (sociopaths and such) who have mental illnesses, but generally speaking, everyone should know what they should and shouldn't be doing.
I am a firm believer that the modern American Christian church is losing millions of people a year because there are those who like to decide who and what to judge, based on their view of scripture. You may be one of them, and I completely respect your point of view, I just don't agree with it.
We're all sinners, and no one gets a free pass if they keep doing the same thing over and over. However, for those who slip up once (be it cheating, or whatever else) and are thrown to the wolves by their fellow man, what does that say about you? If you are readily and willing to repent, that should be God's decision to forgive you. What it shouldn't be is your next door neighbor casting you as "scum of the earth" and "on the same level as pedophiles".
