Is My Lfs Cazy Or What?

sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2861088
A high price insures only those who know what they are doing purchase a rare and magnificent coral...
Why

Those coral have frags all over the internet. That color and those coral are like toilet paper, you can't swing a dead cat with out hitting a frag.
Yeah thats what i want to do, pay some idiotic price because it prevented some one timer from buying it, yup let me be the dope and pay that price. Don't think so.
My god man check the big auction site all the time they are on their, for 25 bucks.
Insures only those who know?? You seem to have been in this hobby and around the block. Champagne wallet idiots will walk in see that coral and buy it. Why cause the price. Not knowing how to care for it. Just plop it the tank and say “see that coral? It cost me a grand”
In reality its a 500 dollar rock. Whos kidding who? A real keeper would and could buy and care for it. Frag it out as it grows and be done with it. But no people come running to the rescue because i hope for snot to flig in his eye, why?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
We should clarify that comments about fragging was just my thoughts about the reason someone might pay big bucks for corals. No one knows if these corals are destined for fragging. it was just an observation by me.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Here is my rant… now.
I just figured I'd help you out and not write anything so you don’t have to waste your time deleting my comments and hurting your iron fist, cause I said something bad about a coral hacker….. Hmmmm wait a minute
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2861391
We should clarify that comments about fragging was just my thoughts about the reason someone might pay big bucks for corals. No one knows if these corals are destined for fragging. it was just an observation by me.
no, i knew what you were saying. Thats why i said it breeds greed. fraging or not some in this hobby would see that price tag and think of ways to flip it.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
how does fragging a coral breed greed. Unless you have a huge setup there is no way that it is profitable.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Of course, it can be a money maker, but I don't think it will make anyone rich. Most fraggers are looking for a little cash to support their hobby, and, of course, some are retail. However, propagation is not always a bad thing, in fact, in most situations it is what keeps this hobby going on many levels. Yes, there are those who abuse their corals, just like there are those who abuse dogs, etc. Much abuse in this hobby, however, comes from inexperience and lack of knowledge.
We can all share the guilt there.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2861413
how does fragging a coral breed greed. Unless you have a huge setup there is no way that it is profitable.
simple. why does anyone do this hobby? cause its hobby they enjoy.
Why do you hang on this message board? to learn and share knowledge.
Why share? to be successful. What’s your reward for success? a thriving tank.
Now the coral frag you bought cost lets say 19.99 at your lfs. not a bad price. I think everyone can live with that, I can live 30.00 frags.
What is the point of that frag for you? I will assume its to grow right?
if your successful that frag grows and your burdened with an over growing coral. So you frag it. Do you turn around and sell that one inch frag for 20.00 or do you ask more for it, knowing the coral cost you 19.99.
What ever the answer, my point is some people will use the excuse that salt and equipment cost money.
Well.... yes it does but that’s the cost of the hobby. So why would anyone in this hobby try and make more money then the cost of that coral. That’s like me sending a bill to my -- heli club for the fuel I used to fly. Its the cost of the hobby for me to enjoy. Or go over to the people watching me fly my -- helis and charging them fuel cost since they are watching my stunt heli. Get my point. Your in hobby or your not. Your a hobbyist or a business.
I should be more specific that the stupid names people drop on a coral breeds greed, really. Oh look at me I have a tyree labeled coral. Or this or that. I really am an idiot cause when I was selling my coral I was not charging ten bucks per polup or 25 per polyp, nuc waste lands 25 plus polyps 30 bucks, I don’t care. Why cause I have them and the grow for me, that’s what I wanted. I want thriving tanks. That’s why I said what I said., and I don’t care if I hurt someone’s feelings. if you’re a coral hacker and your trying to flip a coral I hope you lose a finger or two in a band saw or go blind from coral snot.
Its not profitable for the keeper, but some hackers think they can make a buck flipping coral. It can be though, go to a wholesaler buys some acan at 90 bucks cut it up and sell it. A wholesale acan even with nice colors is pretty cheap. Knowing what my friend is paying from the collectors , it can be real profitable if you want to take the time to hack it up and sell them on the bidding site. Personally I hope they get hurt.
Ask around to all the people on this board I have traded and sold coral to that I just throw extra coral frag into a bag and say here ya go I had extra coral take them and enjoy. Cause I take pride knowing my coral that I raised from a frag is all over the country. Tubbs blue, ppe, nuc waste lands, clams, acans, monti, enchino, and god knows what else.
It’s the hobby I enjoy and take pride in my tanks and live stock.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2861416
Of course, it can be a money maker, but I don't think it will make anyone rich. Most fraggers are looking for a little cash to support their hobby, and, of course, some are retail. However, propagation is not always a bad thing, in fact, in most situations it is what keeps this hobby going on many levels. Yes, there are those who abuse their corals, just like there are those who abuse dogs, etc. Much abuse in this hobby, however, comes from inexperience and lack of knowledge.
We can all share the guilt there.
Lets tackle one thing at a time fish and coral are one thing dogs and cats and ferrets are another.
At the same time, I will equate coral hackers on the same page as scummy puppy mill owners, pure garbage and should suffer some fait that is only fitting.
Propagation, absolutely is not a bad thing at all. I could only hope that we as hobbyist could only flood the market with zoas, acan monti and every other coral. But we are so early in the game and we already fell in the pit with designer names.
We are supposed to be hobbyist, so in my eyes you can not justify selling frags to another hobbyist at a retail price. We as hobbyist should not be “cool” with that. Cuase that also breed greed. Think about not everyone but some, a lot will rationalize it as “well I paid this, so someone else can pay that price from me instead.”
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2861765
simple. why does anyone do this hobby? cause its hobby they enjoy.
Why do you hang on this message board? to learn and share knowledge.
Why share? to be successful. What’s your reward for success? a thriving tank.
Now the coral frag you bought cost lets say 19.99 at your lfs. not a bad price. I think everyone can live with that, I can live 30.00 frags.
What is the point of that frag for you? I will assume its to grow right?
if your successful that frag grows and your burdened with an over growing coral. So you frag it. Do you turn around and sell that one inch frag for 20.00 or do you ask more for it, knowing the coral cost you 19.99.
What ever the answer, my point is some people will use the excuse that salt and equipment cost money.
Well.... yes it does but that’s the cost of the hobby. So why would anyone in this hobby try and make more money then the cost of that coral. That’s like me sending a bill to my -- heli club for the fuel I used to fly. Its the cost of the hobby for me to enjoy. Or go over to the people watching me fly my -- helis and charging them fuel cost since they are watching my stunt heli. Get my point. Your in hobby or your not. Your a hobbyist or a business.
I should be more specific that the stupid names people drop on a coral breeds greed, really. Oh look at me I have a tyree labeled coral. Or this or that. I really am an idiot cause when I was selling my coral I was not charging ten bucks per polup or 25 per polyp, nuc waste lands 25 plus polyps 30 bucks, I don’t care. Why cause I have them and the grow for me, that’s what I wanted. I want thriving tanks. That’s why I said what I said., and I don’t care if I hurt someone’s feelings. if you’re a coral hacker and your trying to flip a coral I hope you lose a finger or two in a band saw or go blind from coral snot.
Its not profitable for the keeper, but some hackers think they can make a buck flipping coral. It can be though, go to a wholesaler buys some acan at 90 bucks cut it up and sell it. A wholesale acan even with nice colors is pretty cheap. Knowing what my friend is paying from the collectors , it can be real profitable if you want to take the time to hack it up and sell them on the bidding site. Personally I hope they get hurt.
Ask around to all the people on this board I have traded and sold coral to that I just throw extra coral frag into a bag and say here ya go I had extra coral take them and enjoy. Cause I take pride knowing my coral that I raised from a frag is all over the country. Tubbs blue, ppe, nuc waste lands, clams, acans, monti, enchino, and god knows what else.
It’s the hobby I enjoy and take pride in my tanks and live stock.
The price of the coral isn't the only cost involved with fragging some purple people eaters. you've got your time, electricity, equipment, salt, water and all sorts of other stuff.
I do understand what you're saying, (not that I entirely agree with it). I do know a couple people who do propagate to make money. But I don't think this is the average person. But a couple people here and there.
I sell my frags at market price, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to what I put into my tank.
you also have to understand if it wasn't for the whole seller making a profit, we wouldn't have access to what we have access to now.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2862607
The price of the coral isn't the only cost involved with fragging some purple people eaters. you've got your time, electricity, equipment, salt, water and all sorts of other stuff.
My comments were a little jumbled up since it seems I was walking on egg shells with my langue, since this subject on a hobbyist stand point, enrages me to no end.
So knowing the cost of time, electricity, equipment, salt, water and all sorts of other stuff. Why would you get into this hobby?
What I’m saying really, is anyone who is in this hobby helping anyone or the environment out?
I’m sure if I really wanted to I can take some of my high priced wild collected acans and acros and sell a 1inch rainbow or my tie dye piece for 95-100 bucks. In my eyes that’s not helping anyone or the hobby or the environment. In my eyes, my coral grow and grow nice and have nice coloration and have gone from one tank to another before making their way into my frag tanks to be traded or sold off. I’m not going to throw clippings out with the water changes, so I sell them for a couple of dollars and know that other keepers have that coral species now. I pretty much cover the cost of the platform they are fraged on the glue, bags and a couple of bucks for a pack of smokes or cigar, that’s me. Im in this hobby to enjoy the hobby. No intentions of trying to get back what I paid for the coral with one frag clipping. Maybe, maybe 6 or 10 clippings but not in one shot, that’s my whole point. People trying to recoup the cost of the original mother colony in one frag, those people make me sick. Don’t sit back and think your helping this hobby or fellow hobbyist.
I don’t know I guess I except the fact that the cost of my hobby that brings me enjoyment and relaxation is the cross I have to bare. I don’t have to use quality salt, filters, reactors, sumps, pumps, lights, skimmers and foods due to cost but in my eyes I get better results and im not constantly playing and adding garbage to my tanks. So I spend the money on quality equipment and salt and sit back for 13 days and enjoy the tanks. Well that’s not entirely true……… for some reason I can not keep my hands out of the tanks and playing with rocks.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2862681
My comments were a little jumbled up since it seems I was walking on egg shells with my langue, since this subject on a hobbyist stand point, enrages me to no end.
So knowing the cost of time, electricity, equipment, salt, water and all sorts of other stuff. Why would you get into this hobby?
What I’m saying really, is anyone who is in this hobby helping anyone or the environment out?
I’m sure if I really wanted to I can take some of my high priced wild collected acans and acros and sell a 1inch rainbow or my tie dye piece for 95-100 bucks. In my eyes that’s not helping anyone or the hobby or the environment. In my eyes, my coral grow and grow nice and have nice coloration and have gone from one tank to another before making their way into my frag tanks to be traded or sold off. I’m not going to throw clippings out with the water changes, so I sell them for a couple of dollars and know that other keepers have that coral species now. I pretty much cover the cost of the platform they are fraged on the glue, bags and a couple of bucks for a pack of smokes or cigar, that’s me. Im in this hobby to enjoy the hobby. No intentions of trying to get back what I paid for the coral with one frag clipping. Maybe, maybe 6 or 10 clippings but not in one shot, that’s my whole point. People trying to recoup the cost of the original mother colony in one frag, those people make me sick. Don’t sit back and think your helping this hobby or fellow hobbyist.
I don’t know I guess I except the fact that the cost of my hobby that brings me enjoyment and relaxation is the cross I have to bare. I don’t have to use quality salt, filters, reactors, sumps, pumps, lights, skimmers and foods due to cost but in my eyes I get better results and im not constantly playing and adding garbage to my tanks. So I spend the money on quality equipment and salt and sit back for 13 days and enjoy the tanks. Well that’s not entirely true……… for some reason I can not keep my hands out of the tanks and playing with rocks.
well I wish you were my neighbor.
 
petjunkie

petjunkie

Active Member
I have to agree here, I've never spent over $50 on a frag ever and I won't be likely too, there's stuff I want but I'll wait for the price to drop or find someone unnamed that I like just as much. You'll never convince me that words like "rare" "LE" "rainbow" "aussie" mean anything other than marketing, make people think they are getting something special to pay more.
Look at the way prices have jumped on acans, chalices and favias. These coral aren't rare and they used to be cheap. Now every store out there slaps a cool name on everything to sell it. Look at duncans, they used to be over $50 a head when no one could get them, now they are $10, $5 a head instead, because they grow so fast nobody wants them anymore. The other corals with high prices do grow slowly but the fact is everybody is buying to frag, how many LE chalices colonies or rainbow acan colonies do you see in anybody tanks? Because as soon as they cover the frag plug they are fragged again and sold at the original price.
So I buy one polyp of Paly Grandis for $20, now I have a few more and am selling the growth that's on rocks I don't really want it on. $5 to my little group of reef people up here. I still have my polyp, plus a few and now they are in other people's tank so if mine die off, maybe I can get some back someday. I buy stuff I like and I'll pay for something a little harder to find, like my rhizo but I can't frag that and make any money back, I bought it because it's cool and I like the way it looks, I buy coral to make my tank look nice and give me something to do, I don't want tiny eraser sized frags all over the place, I can't even see that.
It just seems like fragging went from spreading the wealth and helping out newbies to buy the newest and coolest to brag about, frag it when it's finally a decent size that you can see instead of the one eye you bought for $150 to make your money back, then sell it off when it's no longer the cool thing to have and move on. It's kinda the same reason I don't like trading out fish, not what I got into the hobby for. Most of them time I frag to make room and end up giving away what doesn't sell so I don't have to bring it back.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
http:///forum/post/2862464
If perhaps a little jaded I agree with his message.
Why were police watching his store? Poaching involved?
No, no poaching, that any one wants to admit to at least. But the owner got busted for check and credit card fraud for double charging aquarium maintenance fees and selling cds out of the back. I caught wind of what was going down on duty one night at a first aid call.
The owner was crooked from the get go, no price tags asked how much and he would quote a price and if it was to high he would lower the price. Did not pay my buddy who’s a wholesaler for his orders, checks bounced all the time. Got to the point where the wholesalers told him cod or direct payment before the orders were shipped out.
 
trippkid

trippkid

Active Member
Sharkbait, I have read the thread and can't agree more with what you are saying. It is my exact feeling on this issue. I give all my frags away for free, LE, Tyree, whatever, it doesn't matter to me. I feel funny asking for any money for this stuff, especially from people you call friends(although I don't mind buying reasonably priced frags, or pricing my frags very reasonably say at a frag swap, and that is because of everyone else wanting money, if it were a true swap or trade, my stuff would be free). Like you have said or the idea at least we are already buying all this stuff for our own personal enjoyment of the hobby, not to make money on it. Share the wealth is how I look at it. Our reef club(I just help to start) is just that, helping local reefers for the enjoyment of the hobby and others with the same interests. Plus with true trading, If you ever lose a piece or the colony, there should be many sources to get it back if you choose, just by saying hey can I get a piece of that back with no expectations of money. I say if people would just stop paying rediculous prices for frags, the price would come way down(unless like you have said, they just throw the frags out). I don't know where Marlboro is, but you would fit right in with our small group so far in Central PA here. Equipment, frags, help, whatever, we try to hook each other up just because. Thanks for having enough sak to put out your feelings on this. You are welcome at our club anytime if you are ever in the area. Have a good one.

Matt
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by COWFISHRULE
http:///forum/post/2864732
ha... i know what store that was.
its ghost now.
lol yup all gone. I should have taken his offer for the 220 gallon barrel tank set up for 800. Looked in the window and everything is gone.
 
jaymz

jaymz

Member
I read through alot of this and I dont get what was supposed to be bad about flipping a coral. I mean like you said if it starts to out grow my tank i sure am going to frag it and try to make a buck. I pumped hundrends of dollars of light electircity into that thing while it was growing, water, salt etc...
Im not going to pay $1000 for any coral no matter what, even if money was no object. Im not going to give some idiot the satisfaction of that sale. But I sure am going to be interested in knowing some joker who does pay $1000 for a coral because I would love to show him some $300 pieces sitting in my tank.

An idiot is an idiot is an idiot
And isnt making a buck the american way. Cant live with out money and the more you have the easier it is to breathe. Sad? yes.
 
sharkbait9

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jaymz
http:///forum/post/2865446
I read through alot of this and I dont get what was supposed to be bad about flipping a coral. I mean like you said if it starts to out grow my tank i sure am going to frag it and try to make a buck. I pumped hundrends of dollars of light electircity into that thing while it was growing, water, salt etc.
So if your pumping out hundreds of dollars in this hobby, why did you get into it? I mean really hundred of dollars for a hobby? Wow, you must really be dedicated to your hobby if your pumping out that kind of money?
Anyone who is a serious reefer, spend that kind of money, no ones walks that street alone.
Spending that money is a big part of this hobby. No one put a gun to your head and said “hey spend hundred of dollars on this hobby” You chose to do this hobby and do it right, right? That’s the price you pay to be successful.
By all rights then if you could not sell your coral after they out grow the space provided what would you do? Just not do it any more? Say well this stinks forget it, I don’t want to do this hobby? No, of course not. I trade and sell frags and a lot at that. But I just never thought it was right to meet up with fellow hobbyist and try to make back what I paid. Sure I hold back the fancier coral frags to trade with and sell to people I know, but on the big bidding site I move a lot of coral. Most coral that I put up don’t stay but a day maybe with my buy it now price. I know for a fact a couple of members have bought stuff from me on the bidding site *********************or (******************.
(You know who are so if you read this, sorry just how I see it, but be honest and say what I gave you back)
This rant and thoughts are not driven at the hobbyist who is successful and has their coral grow out. it’s the dope who feels self entitlement that because they were charged 30 bucks for a frag of what ever and were successful now they can turn around the burn someone and charge 30 bucks for a frag. Yet sits on a soapbox and says they are a true hobbyist.
I also feel some people, not saying you jay, but some take offense because I describe a certain characteristic that they fall into and get bent. And well, I have been on this board a while and enough people have read my comments to know I don’t care if I hurt your feelings, it’s my opinion and if it bothers to the point that you have to cry about and look for someone to make the bad man stop, they need to grow thicker skin.
Just as if anyone wanted to turn around call me names, that’s ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but know I still love you.
 
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