It's things like this that give Marine's such a wonderful reputation...

[theclemsonkid]

A group of Marines not only urinating on dead bodies, but happily smiling for the camera as it takes place. You stay classy soldiers...
Of course this is just a rogue group of soldiers who don't represent the way 99% of real Marines feel and act. At least that's what the press release will say...

 

[cipher43]

This isn't the first time nor the last time this will happen. The only reason this gets so much hype anymore is that we now have the ability to post our stupidities on the internet where it will float around until the end of time.

 

[mantisman51]

So the !@#$ what? They are the enemy and they killed or were trying to kill their fellow Americans. So what? It is easy fore those who only benefit from freedom to criticize those who have EARNED it! I wouldn't give one of those Marine's toenail clippings in exchange for limp-wristed, whiny leftists who sit in luxury and salivate over the opportunity to condemn those who fight to protect the same whiny, spoiled excuses for human beings.

 

[gemmy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449597
A group of Marines not only urinating on dead bodies, but happily smiling for the camera as it takes place. You stay classy soldiers...
Of course this is just a rogue group of soldiers who don't represent the way 99% of real Marines feel and act. At least that's what the press release will say...
Wow, I guess if this was more than just a rogue group of soldiers then we would be hearing about this sort of thing on a daily basis. Males can be dumb and do stupid things. Think of frats and what happens when you get a group of guys together for an extended period of time. Immaturity comes out. For many of the young men, this is the first time being away from home. Immaturity comes out and they do stupid things. I am not excusing the behavior and they should be reprimanded. Just remember that these young men are giving up many privileges to fight fearlessly for the freedoms that you and I enjoy.
Not like you're going to post back, One post wonder.

 

[bigarn]

So what's the big deal? Do you really think things like this never happened in all the previous wars? The down side is now there's an internet and a world wide audience of "holier than thou's".
big (Ohhh Raaaa) arn

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449607
So the !@#$ what? They are the enemy and they killed or were trying to kill their fellow Americans. So what? It is easy fore those who only benefit from freedom to criticize those who have EARNED it! I wouldn't give one of those Marine's toenail clippings in exchange for limp-wristed, whiny leftists who sit in luxury and salivate over the opportunity to condemn those who fight to protect the same whiny, spoiled excuses for human beings.
I always love the "you're not fighting for our freedom, so you have no say in it" attitude. So let's just go ahead and let soldiers vote only, since, let's be honest, the rest of us aren't doing squat for the freedoms we enjoy... It's so tired hearing people defend deplorable behavior because they are the "enemy".
So I can only assume that when those same Taliban beheaded a few Americans a couple years back and put them on display your response was "So the !@#$ what? They are the enemy and they killed or were trying to kill their fellow Taliban. So what?"
I'm not saying I don't respect the Hell out of what most of these guys have to go through, because I do. But you know what makes American armed forces different than the run of the mill Taliban who gives two hoots about "honor"?
The fact that we're better than urinating on bodies. Or at least are supposed to be...

 

[mantisman51]

#1 I said it is easy for those who only enjoy the benefits of freedom to condemn those who EARN it. So please justify your ultra-leftist first sentence again.
#2 So I can only assume that when those same Taliban beheaded a few Americans a couple years back and put them on display your response was "So the !@#$ what? They are the enemy and they killed or were trying to kill their fellow Taliban. So what?" In typical anti-American, Marxist fashion, you intentionally try to compare those who force women to wear full-body sheets with 1/4" slits to look out and behead 5 year old girls for the audacity to go to school or get raped to our American men who are fighting for the right of the oppressed to simply LIVE. Listen to Daniel Pearl as he begs for his life and then gags and shrieks as his head is cut off with a hunting knife. Oh yeah, he's one of the "little Eichmans" who deserved it, like your pals like to say, right?
Clem, you are a Marxist zealot. I think you may be Bill Ayers in disguise. Thank God our country is finally leaving you 1960's rejects to the history bin under "Soviet Controlled Propagandists of American Universities".

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449623
#1 I said it is easy for those who only enjoy the benefits of freedom to condemn those who EARN it. So please justify your ultra-leftist first sentence again.
#2 So I can only assume that when those same Taliban beheaded a few Americans a couple years back and put them on display your response was "So the !@#$ what? They are the enemy and they killed or were trying to kill their fellow Taliban. So what?" In typical anti-American, Marxist fashion, you intentionally try to compare those who force women to wear full-body sheets with 1/4" slits to look out and behead 5 year old girls for the audacity to go to school or get raped to our American men who are fighting for the right of the oppressed to simply LIVE. Listen to Daniel Pearl as he begs for his life and then gags and shrieks as his head is cut off with a hunting knife. Oh yeah, he's one of the "little Eichmans" who deserved it, like your pals like to say, right?
Clem, you are a Marxist zealot. I think you may be Bill Ayers in disguise. Thank God our country is finally leaving you 1960's rejects to the history bin under "Soviet Controlled Propagandists of American Universities".
#1 You said it's easy for those who enjoy the benefits of freedom (i.e. me), to condemn those who EARN it. (i.e. Military). So are you saying that either A) I have no right to condemn any service members because I'm not out there with them?, or B) Unless you're fighting for our freedom, you should keep your mouth shut with how they represent my country?
#2 I could care less if they are Taliban, Shii'tes, Christians, Muslims, Brown, Yellow or Green. You don't urinate on dead bodies. Period. You can't quantify that with your apples to oranges comparison. By that logic, I can only assume that you'd be just fine with urinating on Nazi's, Marxist's, child molesters, murderers, and anyone else who you lump in as "bad"?
How you equate "don't urinate on dead bodies" with "Anti-American, Marxism" is beyond me. You also claim I am "ultra leftist", and somehow think me and "my pals" think Daniel Pearl deserved to die?!? This is the problem with America today. People like you just assume that people like me are all these things from one lousy sentence about some dead bodies getting urinated on.
I'm a fiscal conservative, Methodist Christian, vote mostly all Republican on a local level (even had my business host a Republican fundraiser), think government is way too big and out of control, think welfare is a joke, and would very much like to see all the government handouts stop to people who don't work for it. You keep hand feeding people they won't work for squat.
Just because I don't think that the American War machine is something we ought to just blindly jump behind without having an educated opinion on what's being accomplished hardly makes me an "ultra leftist" or "Marxist".
Let's talk about the freedom you say we're fighting for in Afghanistan. People there blindly join the Taliban. That's a fact. And let's stop for a minute and think about WHY these young kids join the Taliban. They live in poverty we can't even imagine in the United States. The homeless in America live the good life compared to what most people in the hills of Afghanistan live every day. There are no real jobs, no education, and no way to better yourself. So then comes along the big bad Taliban warlord, who offers you food, shelter, and power if you join up with them. So your two choices are poverty, hunger, and eventually death; or food, shelter, and power. What do you THINK these kids are going to choose?
So the United States answer to this problem is to go in and take out the Taliban. On the surface that seems like a wonderful idea. Only it's completely unrealistic. Even if you did manage to take out the Taliban (which is more or less impossible), what you would have left is a poor, undeveloped, uneducated country with millions of people looking for work, food, and money. When that isn't there, the next Taliban comes along and seizes power. It's a vicious cycle that has been going on in poor and uneducated countries for tens of thousands of years.
If the west really wants to stop the terrorists and extremist Muslims, they need to figure out a way to get the people in those places educated, empowered, and making money. It's easy to recruit for the Taliban when you live in a cave or a shack and you're broke. It's a hell of a lot harder when you have a home, a family, a business, and something to live for.
Desperate people make desperate choices.
I'm not saying I know HOW we can accomplish this, but there has to be a better way than continually sending in American soldiers to lose their lives for something that we can't seem to change in the first place. You can't change people with bombs, you can only change people through much deeper philisophical and anthropological means, combined with giving them a decent life to live and want to maintain.

 

[reefraff]

Seeing as how when the video first surfaced there was doubt it was real I'd say the Marines reputation is just fine. When it's so out of character the thought of the action creates a gut reaction of disbelief in all but the most anti war kooks it says a lot about the reputation of the Marines.
Not to excuse what these guys did but put yourself in their shoes. If you were standing over the bodies of people who were trying to kill you and had more than likely killed some of your friends tell me you wouldn't think about doing the same thing. Sitting here in my chair I'll tell you if I were there I wouldn't take prisoners. A whole lot of people feel the same way. The training these guys go through to repress their personal feelings must be amazing.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449635
#1 You said it's easy for those who enjoy the benefits of freedom (i.e. me), to condemn those who EARN it. (i.e. Military). So are you saying that either A) I have no right to condemn any service members because I'm not out there with them?, or B) Unless you're fighting for our freedom, you should keep your mouth shut with how they represent my country?
#2 I could care less if they are Taliban, Shii'tes, Christians, Muslims, Brown, Yellow or Green. You don't urinate on dead bodies. Period. You can't quantify that with your apples to oranges comparison. By that logic, I can only assume that you'd be just fine with urinating on Nazi's, Marxist's, child molesters, murderers, and anyone else who you lump in as "bad"?
How you equate "don't urinate on dead bodies" with "Anti-American, Marxism" is beyond me. You also claim I am "ultra leftist", and somehow think me and "my pals" think Daniel Pearl deserved to die?!? This is the problem with America today. People like you just assume that people like me are all these things from one lousy sentence about some dead bodies getting urinated on.
I'm a fiscal conservative, Methodist Christian, vote mostly all Republican on a local level (even had my business host a Republican fundraiser), think government is way too big and out of control, think welfare is a joke, and would very much like to see all the government handouts stop to people who don't work for it. You keep hand feeding people they won't work for squat.
Just because I don't think that the American War machine is something we ought to just blindly jump behind without having an educated opinion on what's being accomplished hardly makes me an "ultra leftist" or "Marxist".
Let's talk about the freedom you say we're fighting for in Afghanistan. People there blindly join the Taliban. That's a fact. And let's stop for a minute and think about WHY these young kids join the Taliban. They live in poverty we can't even imagine in the United States. The homeless in America live the good life compared to what most people in the hills of Afghanistan live every day. There are no real jobs, no education, and no way to better yourself. So then comes along the big bad Taliban warlord, who offers you food, shelter, and power if you join up with them. So your two choices are poverty, hunger, and eventually death; or food, shelter, and power. What do you THINK these kids are going to choose?
So the United States answer to this problem is to go in and take out the Taliban. On the surface that seems like a wonderful idea. Only it's completely unrealistic. Even if you did manage to take out the Taliban (which is more or less impossible), what you would have left is a poor, undeveloped, uneducated country with millions of people looking for work, food, and money. When that isn't there, the next Taliban comes along and seizes power. It's a vicious cycle that has been going on in poor and uneducated countries for tens of thousands of years.
If the west really wants to stop the terrorists and extremist Muslims, they need to figure out a way to get the people in those places educated, empowered, and making money. It's easy to recruit for the Taliban when you live in a cave or a shack and you're broke. It's a hell of a lot harder when you have a home, a family, a business, and something to live for.
Desperate people make desperate choices.
I'm not saying I know HOW we can accomplish this, but there has to be a better way than continually sending in American soldiers to lose their lives for something that we can't seem to change in the first place. You can't change people with bombs, you can only change people through much deeper philisophical and anthropological means, combined with giving them a decent life to live and want to maintain.
Commie cup cake peddler

 

[mantisman51]

1) That anyone can get "has no right" from "it is easy" shows either our education system is flawed worse than I thought or someone has a rhetorical response and cannot intellectually argue the point being made.
2) The blame America first mentality(I call it the "altering eye alters all" outlook) was started when American Marxist professors started traveling to Russia in the 1930's to learn from the Soviet Propaganda Bureau. But it zenithed in the 1950's when Soviet spies infiltrated the universities with hundreds of KGB professorial plants. The hippy uprising of the 60's and the ensuing anti-war/anti-military dogma was right out of the (now) public KGB texts. Even with our, supposedly, winning the Cold War that knee-jerk, anti-Americanism demonstrated by today's anti-military left is the lingering byproduct of that Soviet infiltration. You're an American, why not give fellow Americans the benefit of the doubt?
3) The direct comparison of Al Qaeda to American soldiers was made. That is tacit support of their terror and dehumanizing doctrine.
4) I have been crippled since my senior year in H.S., I have never had the opportunity to serve. Why would I say those who never served cannot comment? I believe those who serve ARE BETTER than the rest of us, as citizens and human beings. No peacenik has done diddly to make the world safer or better. But the men and women who stand up to defend us are making the world better every single day and deserve our support and love-not have those of us who've never stood between death and us find every reason to condemn them and compare them to an inhuman enemy.

 

[mantisman51]

I have 2 brothers-in-law and my father-in-law who served in Vietnam. They came home to being called baby killers and war criminals(rememeber, "never since Genghis Khan"...). I was 7 years old in 1975 in Santa Rosa, California when a hippy was wandering around Luther Burbank Park with a sign that read "Prosecute the GI war criminals". As a 7 year old boy, my blood boiled. I got in that hippy's face and said "You have no right to talk about our men like that!" I made a promise to myself that I will not sit idly by while those who's greatest calling is self-gratification condemn those that WE THE PEOPLE send to face the horrors of war. That is what is in my heart and soul. Am I gruff and abrasive? Yes! But as long as I breath and can speak, I will defend those who defend us.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449651
1) That anyone can get "has no right" from "it is easy" shows either our education system is flawed worse than I thought or someone has a rhetorical response and cannot intellectually argue the point being made.
2) The blame America first mentality(I call it the "altering eye alters all" outlook) was started when American Marxist professors started traveling to Russia in the 1930's to learn from the Soviet Propaganda Bureau. But it zenithed in the 1950's when Soviet spies infiltrated the universities with hundreds of KGB professorial plants. The hippy uprising of the 60's and the ensuing anti-war/anti-military dogma was right out of the (now) public KGB texts. Even with our, supposedly, winning the Cold War that knee-jerk, anti-Americanism demonstrated by today's anti-military left is the lingering byproduct of that Soviet infiltration. You're an American, why not give fellow Americans the benefit of the doubt?
3) The direct comparison of Al Qaeda to American soldiers was made. That is tacit support of their terror and dehumanizing doctrine.
4) I have been crippled since my senior year in H.S., I have never had the opportunity to serve. Why would I say those who never served cannot comment? I believe those who serve ARE BETTER than the rest of us, as citizens and human beings. No peacenik has done diddly to make the world safer or better. But the men and women who stand up to defend us are making the world better every single day and deserve our support and love-not have those of us who've never stood between death and us find every reason to condemn them and compare them to an inhuman enemy.
1.) Ok, so let me rephrase that from "has no right" to "you think my opinion is meaningless because I'm not over there"? Or something similar to that?
2.) I actually appreciate your response here, as I just read a little bit about that which I didn't know actually happened in the 1930's. Pretty interesting stuff. However, I think you are way off base as to the lingering effects of what that accomplished moving forward. The hippies and "peace movement" of the 60's was more based on economics than anything else. People for the first time were going to college to better themselves intellectually to be able to get a better job, make more money, and have a choice in their life other than "go work at a factory" or "join the army". Just like in Afghanistan, if you have a choice between getting a good paying job, raising a family, and being relatively happy; or joining the armed services to willingly blow up other people (for freedom or whatever else you want to fight for), which would you choose? I don't know how old you are, or what it is you do, but I think that people who want to do more in their life than join the Army and fight for America shouldn't be looked down upon or somehow considered less of a person than a soldier.
3.) A human being is a human being. The fact that you think I'm showing "tacit support of their terror and dehumanizing doctrine." by saying that it goes both ways is not only incredibly ignorant, it's insulting.
4.) The last comments you make are what really make me question you. You honestly think that people who chose to serve are both better citizens and human beings than the rest of us? Read that one more time. You think that people who serve are both better people and better human beings. If you really believe that, then I honestly see no point in arguing with you about any of this. Your other comment that "No peacenik has done diddly to make the world safer or better." is not only sad, but completely wrong. I pray for your sake you aren't a Christian, because if you are I think you may wanna visit your church and have a nice chat with your pastor about people who believe in peace, especially a guy named Jesus.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449659
I have 2 brothers-in-law and my father-in-law who served in Vietnam. They came home to being called baby killers and war criminals(rememeber, "never since Genghis Khan"...). I was 7 years old in 1975 in Santa Rosa, California when a hippy was wandering around Luther Burbank Park with a sign that read "Prosecute the GI war criminals". As a 7 year old boy, my blood boiled. I got in that hippy's face and said "You have no right to talk about our men like that!" I made a promise to myself that I will not sit idly by while those who's greatest calling is self-gratification condemn those that WE THE PEOPLE send to face the horrors of war. That is what is in my heart and soul. Am I gruff and abrasive? Yes! But as long as I breath and can speak, I will defend those who defend us.
What the hell are you talking about?!? I just said it's a disgrace that Marine's urinated on dead bodies! THAT'S IT! I'm condemning THAT ACTION ALONE. I'm happy that you defend those who defend us, just like I do. You just can't blindly defend something as crappy as urinating on dead bodies, or killing civilians for sport all under the umbrella of "defending our freedoms".

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449607
So the !@#$ what? They are the enemy and they killed or were trying to kill their fellow Americans. So what? It is easy fore those who only benefit from freedom to criticize those who have EARNED it! I wouldn't give one of those Marine's toenail clippings in exchange for limp-wristed, whiny leftists who sit in luxury and salivate over the opportunity to condemn those who fight to protect the same whiny, spoiled excuses for human beings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigarn http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449614
So what's the big deal? Do you really think things like this never happened in all the previous wars? The down side is now there's an internet and a world wide audience of "holier than thou's".
big (Ohhh Raaaa) arn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449610
Wow, I guess if this was more than just a rogue group of soldiers then we would be hearing about this sort of thing on a daily basis. Males can be dumb and do stupid things. Think of frats and what happens when you get a group of guys together for an extended period of time. Immaturity comes out. For many of the young men, this is the first time being away from home. Immaturity comes out and they do stupid things. I am not excusing the behavior and they should be reprimanded. Just remember that these young men are giving up many privileges to fight fearlessly for the freedoms that you and I enjoy.
Not like you're going to post back, One post wonder.
Gemmy I think you might feel differently if you were down range being fired upon.....Quite a different feeling and attitude most would have....I see nothing wrong with it....I've lost a good friend, roommate, like a brother to the "enemy", so I have no remorse for anyone trying to take my life.....You get what you get.......

 

[reefraff]

I wish I could find the quote now but after the Soviet Union fell there was an interview with a former party official. He was asked what he felt about the fall of communism. His response was along the lines of "We have spent much time and much money to place people who believe what we believe in your media, your schools and your unions. Just because the Soviet Union went away doesn't mean the movement goes away"
Anyone who doesn't think the communist party infiltrated this country should read a book called the Naked communist. It was written in the mid 50's and included the communist platform for taking down America. Some of the listed goals there would be unthinkable in 1955 America but have since come to pass. It's pretty interesting stuff.

 

[acrylic51]

Might I add how differently was it back when I can't remember exactly the conflict, but the female soldier that was with her squad and they were killed and she was taken prisoner, and raped, belittled.....Ohhh how fast we forget that there are rules/laws that do govern rules of combat, but come on people who follows them......The good ole United States......These rules have been broken from day 1. Its rather easy to sit back and arm chair quarterback ClemsonKid.....Have you ever had to make that split decision to fire your weapon......That split decision you hesitate means your buddy dying or worse you.....Cost of war IMHO.....Sometimes innocent people die, but you can't fight a war systematically as we often do......

 

[cipher43]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449661
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449659
I have 2 brothers-in-law and my father-in-law who served in Vietnam. They came home to being called baby killers and war criminals(rememeber, "never since Genghis Khan"...). I was 7 years old in 1975 in Santa Rosa, California when a hippy was wandering around Luther Burbank Park with a sign that read "Prosecute the GI war criminals". As a 7 year old boy, my blood boiled. I got in that hippy's face and said "You have no right to talk about our men like that!" I made a promise to myself that I will not sit idly by while those who's greatest calling is self-gratification condemn those that WE THE PEOPLE send to face the horrors of war. That is what is in my heart and soul. Am I gruff and abrasive? Yes! But as long as I breath and can speak, I will defend those who defend us.
What the hell are you talking about?!? I just said it's a disgrace that Marine's urinated on dead bodies! THAT'S IT! I'm condemning THAT ACTION ALONE. I'm happy that you defend those who defend us, just like I do. You just can't blindly defend something as crappy as urinating on dead bodies, or killing civilians for sport all under the umbrella of "defending our freedoms".
When your enemy looks like the civilians don't you think that will happen sometimes by accident? When all of the locals are wearing clothing that could hide a bomb or gun and the ones that do have them have no consideration for their own lives or the lives of there fellow country men what do you expect? With the killing civilians, you judging them is more of a blind statement than anything else because you are destroying actions that they felt nessisary to stay alive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449635 />
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/389935/its-things-like-this-that-give-marines-such-a-wonderful-reputation#post_3449623
#1 I said it is easy for those who only enjoy the benefits of freedom to condemn those who EARN it. So please justify your ultra-leftist first sentence again.
#2 So I can only assume that when those same Taliban beheaded a few Americans a couple years back and put them on display your response was "So the !@#$ what? They are the enemy and they killed or were trying to kill their fellow Taliban. So what?" In typical anti-American, Marxist fashion, you intentionally try to compare those who force women to wear full-body sheets with 1/4" slits to look out and behead 5 year old girls for the audacity to go to school or get raped to our American men who are fighting for the right of the oppressed to simply LIVE. Listen to Daniel Pearl as he begs for his life and then gags and shrieks as his head is cut off with a hunting knife. Oh yeah, he's one of the "little Eichmans" who deserved it, like your pals like to say, right?
Clem, you are a Marxist zealot. I think you may be Bill Ayers in disguise. Thank God our country is finally leaving you 1960's rejects to the history bin under "Soviet Controlled Propagandists of American Universities".
#1 You said it's easy for those who enjoy the benefits of freedom (i.e. me), to condemn those who EARN it. (i.e. Military). So are you saying that either A) I have no right to condemn any service members because I'm not out there with them?, or B) Unless you're fighting for our freedom, you should keep your mouth shut with how they represent my country?
#2 I could care less if they are Taliban, Shii'tes, Christians, Muslims, Brown, Yellow or Green. You don't urinate on dead bodies. Period. You can't quantify that with your apples to oranges comparison. By that logic, I can only assume that you'd be just fine with urinating on Nazi's, Marxist's, child molesters, murderers, and anyone else who you lump in as "bad"?
How you equate "don't urinate on dead bodies" with "Anti-American, Marxism" is beyond me. You also claim I am "ultra leftist", and somehow think me and "my pals" think Daniel Pearl deserved to die?!? This is the problem with America today. People like you just assume that people like me are all these things from one lousy sentence about some dead bodies getting urinated on.
I'm a fiscal conservative, Methodist Christian, vote mostly all Republican on a local level (even had my business host a Republican fundraiser), think government is way too big and out of control, think welfare is a joke, and would very much like to see all the government handouts stop to people who don't work for it. You keep hand feeding people they won't work for squat.
Just because I don't think that the American War machine is something we ought to just blindly jump behind without having an educated opinion on what's being accomplished hardly makes me an "ultra leftist" or "Marxist".
Let's talk about the freedom you say we're fighting for in Afghanistan. People there blindly join the Taliban. That's a fact. And let's stop for a minute and think about WHY these young kids join the Taliban. They live in poverty we can't even imagine in the United States. The homeless in America live the good life compared to what most people in the hills of Afghanistan live every day. There are no real jobs, no education, and no way to better yourself. So then comes along the big bad Taliban warlord, who offers you food, shelter, and power if you join up with them. So your two choices are poverty, hunger, and eventually death; or food, shelter, and power. What do you THINK these kids are going to choose?
So the United States answer to this problem is to go in and take out the Taliban. On the surface that seems like a wonderful idea. Only it's completely unrealistic. Even if you did manage to take out the Taliban (which is more or less impossible), what you would have left is a poor, undeveloped, uneducated country with millions of people looking for work, food, and money. When that isn't there, the next Taliban comes along and seizes power. It's a vicious cycle that has been going on in poor and uneducated countries for tens of thousands of years.
If the west really wants to stop the terrorists and extremist Muslims, they need to figure out a way to get the people in those places educated, empowered, and making money. It's easy to recruit for the Taliban when you live in a cave or a shack and you're broke. It's a hell of a lot harder when you have a home, a family, a business, and something to live for.
Desperate people make desperate choices.
I'm not saying I know HOW we can accomplish this, but there has to be a better way than continually sending in American soldiers to lose their lives for something that we can't seem to change in the first place. You can't change people with bombs, you can only change people through much deeper philisophical and anthropological means, combined with giving them a decent life to live and want to maintain.
#1 Answer A is fully right. What would you do if you watched a brother/father/best friend of your get shot or tortured/beheaded? Are you honestly telling me that you wouldnt want to pee on them if not do worse? I know what i would do or try to do and wont go into details being this is a family site.
#2 You forgot to add rapist to your list. YES YES YES!!!!!!!!! I would be fine with all of them having that done.
As for saying you are a Conservative, I say you are a wolf in sheep's clothing
As for the final thing I highlighted, are you serious? Lets give a bunch of people that hate the us a bunch of money so they can get a nuke and take care of us all. Educate them so they can hide better and have better tactics so they can kill more American soldiers everyday.
So just remember Ohne amerikanische Soldaten würde jeder verstehen, diesen Satz

 

[siptang]

I don't know what's going on with this thread and I am not going to pick sides. (try to at least since I can see from both sides)
However, this is war. I'm not agreeing with the behavior of urinating on someone because that's just nasty and degrading but on the marine's defense, they go through alot and the enemies will do ALOT worse then this. They may have felt justified in their actions. I agree with Mantis. We should back our soldiers. If we don't who else will?
I recently had a close friend, a former air force special ops soldier commit a suicide. He was a very strong, committed, highly moral and intelligent. He was also a son, husband and a father. He went in to several campaigns and after serving the country and doing her dirty work, he developed symptoms where he was seeing and hearing things. He had an incident and nearly killed 6 of his closest friends in the barrack because he thought demons are attacking him. Airforce tried to drop him like a hot potato and discharged him dishonorably but I helped him fight for it and got him discharged honorably (had to go to 2 courts, one in North Florida then one in Texas). He was depressed because he felt the military was his calling and he was weak so he lost what was his precious calling. Unable to over come the depression and constant attacks of schizophrenic impulse, he took his life day before my birthday.
My point is that no one appreciates our soldiers. Not even our own government who enlists them. We, as proud citizens of United States should stand for our sons, fathers, daughters, wives and neighbors instead of thinking about everyone else in the world who wants to kill us first. No one is perfect and many of these soldiers are young and hot blooded so sometimes if something terrible happens to their unit or comrade(s), they do things that they may regret later just for the sake of putting things right. Instead of condemning and pointing fingers, let's try to understand them and why this took place. As you can see, it's on the web which will soon go down to the military intelligence and which will lead to disciplinary actions regardless.
I for one, appreciate the work these soldiers do on daily basis so that I can enjoy my breath of freedom that I enjoy.
Sorry for the long rant. just my 2 cents.

 

[beth]

Let our enemies criticize us; while they behead civilians on camera and publish it on the Internet.
I love how the media is doing the same old song and dance about how much respect Muslims give to dead bodies. Did we not just see Muslims drag Qaddafi through the streets until he was hardly recognizable?
The only think I would say is, guys stop making pics of misdeeds.....