It's true... a reef safe ich med that actually works!

[hipsterism]

Really hypo and copper probably have the same level of success when it is all counted when considered against SP, Rid Ick, and other chemicals.
Copper will cure if you don't kill the fish by over medicating or stressing it out moving it from one home to another. I have yet to read of anyone not losing a fish doing so.
Hypo is the same thing.
Water changes, water quality, and stress are the determining factors of managing ick.
Moving the fish is stressful to them and the only thing you are trying to do is improving the environment and give them a fighting chance. So why not instead find the underling issue and fix that. Try water changes that pattern the torment stage with a 30 percent water change every three to four days, and don’t forget to vacuum the substrate out really well and don’t miss the favorite resting place of all those tangs. All that over a six week period while maintaining the water quality will work as well as anything out there.
I mean really, think about it, if there was a silver bullet for ick we would know about it and this section of the message wouldn’t be so redundant.
:scared:

 

[scsinet]

Hip,
I've successfully treated ich outbreaks in a display tank and in quarantine situations using copper and have never lost a fish. As long as you are careful and test often, it can be done safely.
I agree with you however in your assessment of ich's causative agents and that the way to prevent the onset of it is to relieve the stress. As an example, I have a 110 gallon FOWLR that I know has ich present in the system. I have a hippo tang that ocasionally displays one or two spots. What do I do about it? Nothing. The fish is healthy and always fights it off on it's own. If I were to pull the fish out every time it happens, I'd stress it out bad enough that it would almost certainly get worse and potentially harm the fish.
I also agree with A&A2, about the fact that this board is really hypo friendly, and consequently anti-everything-else. I am not a believer in hypo at all, I'm a copper user, but don't bring that up here. I think that the reason that hypo is so popular here is that it's very difficult to screw up, provided you have an accurate hydrometer, and it can be done in a DT as long as there are no inverts, so it's very popular for the FO folks.
What everyone has to keep in mind here is that what the naysayers on this thread understand is that the companies who are touting the effectiveness of their products no doubt cite self-serving and likely self funded claims of effectiveness. When you look at all the years that supposed "safe" ich remedies have been out there and the overwhelming amount of products that do more harm than good, you have to expect a certain amount of skepticism. Combine this with the sometimes naive reasoning of inexperienced aquarists who have the "if the ich went away, it worked" syndrome (I have a big rock in my yard that repels elephants. How do I know? You don't see any elephants in my yard, do you?) when any number of factors may have caused it cooincidental to the application of the product.
Finally, you have a thread titled "It's true... a reef safe ich med that actually works!"
A thread with a title like this is never going to be anything but a lighting rod for those who are passionate on both sides.
I think I speak for all the experienced people here when I say that we'd like to look at it objectively, but until we see some proven, scientific, objective results, we are going to be the same skeptics that we have been since the first company out there made the claim that their chemical is an ich miracle cure. One guy or two guys or 10 guys dumping the product into a tank and seeing the spots go away ain't gonna do it.

 

[a&a2]

Well stated SCSInet!

 

[hipsterism]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
Hip,
I think I speak for all the experienced people here when I say that we'd like to look at it objectively, but until we see some proven, scientific, objective results, we are going to be the same skeptics that we have been since the first company out there made the claim that their chemical is an ich miracle cure. One guy or two guys or 10 guys dumping the product into a tank and seeing the spots go away ain't gonna do it.

I really don't expect any one of these companies to give scientific data as they are trying to make a buck and as long someone keeps posting "It's True it works" they will be in business.
However, more to the point: There are folks here that have attempted to gather some empirical data on how a particular method works but the threads digresses into people trying to help but nothing really being resolved. The nearest thing to a study was the gal who tried to start a hypo journal, but it turned into a lot of do this or do that.
And yes I would take ten guys dumping the product into their tank and giving results of how it performed if there was some structure to the madness. But stating things like the “ick starts panicking” makes me laugh. I too can be anthropomorphic, but it usually happens after I watch “Finding Nemo” and is probably why I got into this whole hobby to begin with.
I think I speak for myself when I say that there are enough people here to prove pretty concretely what methods work and what methods don’t. But there in lies the problem people see their pets suffering and just want to make it better anyway they can. So being methodical during this period is probably asking a bit much.
So the responsibility lies with the few to inform our fellow aquarists on the best procedure to clear up their problem based on tank size, economics, and time available and not add a lot of hyperbole to an already complicated issue.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by hipsterism
So the responsibility lies with the few to inform our fellow aquarists on the best procedure to clear up their problem based on tank size, economics, and time available and not add a lot of hyperbole to an already complicated issue.

Definitely a lucid and informative response as a whole!

The problem that's all to common on this and any other board is that someone jumps on, titles a thread like this one, and when somebody gets up and says "no, there's no such thing as an reef safe ich cure", people sometimes take it as a personal hit and it starts a "NO, YOU SHUT UP" contest. (not saying that's what happened here to the thread starter)
In the end we need to all face facts... nothing is going to get solved in this thread. If the product works, word will permetate the industry sure enough...given time and results over the long term. That's why everybody loves hypo and copper. Results, over time, and a solid reputation.
I hate to be one of the sports fan who hangs back and cheers for whatever team appears to be winning in the last throes of the game, but I have to say until I see it develop a time tested reputation, I'm not dumping any of this stuff into any of my tanks.

 

[hipsterism]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
I'm not dumping any of this stuff into any of my tanks.

That is a wise decision, not one I can make a claim to.

 

[1journeyman]

I'm still waiting to hear why this stuff drops your pH so hard immediately upon entering your tank...

 

[wattsupdoc]

I wanna know where I can get one of those elephant deterring rocks.

I dont have any pesty elephants right now , but just in case.....

 

[jc74]

Originally Posted by drea
ah, just save money and hypo!
You can't hypo with inverts.
I think I'm going to try this stuff.

 

[1boatnut]

Originally Posted by Beth
There is no trick to eliminating ich...just don't introduce it to begin. Here is where QT enters the picture. If you QT and eliminate ich [and other diseases] before it ever gets to your display, you will maintain healthy fish in a healthy, non-medicated fish tank.
Easier said than done.
The neighbor has 2 tanks that wer both (lets say for argument sake)Ich free. All fish were put in QT before ever going into the main tank. Awhile back we had a power failure and his tanks dropped aprox.6 or so degrees. Within a week,both of his tanks got Ich,a few days apart. He actually had to go and get a bigger QT tank to treat the fish.
Point is nothing new had been introduced in months,yet Ich prevailed.
So,how long is long enough to keep a fish in QT to not introduce something to the DT?
Please understand I am not disputing the value of a QT tank,just stating something I witnessed. If fish that seemed perfectly healthy when leaving QT and seemingly healthy for months afterwards,then get Ich, to me there is more than meets the eye

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
Stop Parasites is a wonderfull med, but you all should know that it does not kill ich. It helps keep it off of your fish. The ich will still be alive and active in your display. Hypo is the best way to go to kill ich off for good. I use stop parasites myself to keep the ich off, but to rid it of your display either hypo or take your fish out and let it run fishless for 6 weeks.
So Sir Q if hypo lowers the salinity level to where the ich at the tomont stage of its life cycle can not reproduce because of the lack of osmotic pressure difference and Stop Parasites keeps ick off the fish stopping the stress and chance of secondary bacteria infection is this not a good one two punch to go along with qt/ht management

 

[codemann]

I have a Hippo tang that I have been fighting ick for 3 months. Had it in quarintine tank with copper for over a month and apeared completely cured for 2 weeks before I put it back in display tank and within 24 hours of putting it in display tank it had the spots again. I did my first dose this morning of Chem-Marin stop parasite so we will see in 5 days. if it doesnt work I will take fish back where I got it and let them deal with it. I should note I have had a lawnmower Blennie and ClarksII clown since I set up display that have never shown symtoms ever.I will keep you posted

 

[codemann]

first dose didnt drop PH 8.2

 

[scsinet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by codemann http:///t/200653/its-true-a-reef-safe-ich-med-that-actually-works/120#post_3503435
I have a Hippo tang that I have been fighting ick for 3 months. Had it in quarintine tank with copper for over a month and apeared completely cured for 2 weeks before I put it back in display tank and within 24 hours of putting it in display tank it had the spots again. I did my first dose this morning of Chem-Marin stop parasite so we will see in 5 days. if it doesnt work I will take fish back where I got it and let them deal with it. I should note I have had a lawnmower Blennie and ClarksII clown since I set up display that have never shown symtoms ever.I will keep you posted
I hate to be overly critical here, but if I'm reading this post correctly, you are addressing ich by removing just one of multiple fish from a display tank and quarantining it... I.E. you are not doing anything to address the ich in the display tank.
If for the moment we assume that ich is NOT infecting the other fish at all, you need to remove the tang long enough to break the life cycle, not just long enough for the visible infection to disappear. Of course, it's also not wise to assume that just because you aren't seeing ich on the other fish, that it's not there. Fish are often infected without showing it. Therefore, it sounds like your root problem is that you are not addressing the ich population in the main tank. Removing all fish to quarantine and applying your copper treatment, then leaving them in quarantine for at least 4 total weeks should do the trick.

 

[beth]

I agree completely with the above. Also, while you may not see your other fish covered with parasites, they are harboring the ich but managing it without treatment. Ich only requires one fish to keep its life cycle going in the fish tank.
To address ich, you must treat all fish for a sufficient amt of time, with the correct treatment procedure.

 

[codemann]

sorry it was never put in the display tank at first. when I bring a fish home it goes in a quarntine tank first and showed signs of ich. it was put in display a month later. I am using the chem marin product now and am on the third day of five. so far ph has been steady at 8.2 and there are no spots on hippo which is irrelevent but hes still rubbing the rock and sandbed. eats like a hosre but I would say so far chemical has made no difference

 

[codemann]

I'm syill going to give the chem Marin stop parasite a shot since I started the process but if it doesnt work which I have my doubts I will be moving all fish to quarantine. I like hippos but they are so suseptable to any illness that I should have gone a different route

 

[saxman]

We've been using quinine sulfate to treat ******...it's about the only thing that works for the resistant strains that seem to be showing up more frequently.

 

[codemann]

the Chem -Marin parasite killer doesnt appear to be working . I did buy a neon blue gobie and the Hippo actually lays on its side and allows gobie and hermit crab to pick at it as if eating the parasites which gobie is known for

 

[codemann]

How cool I put the blue Neon Gobie in with the hippo Tang and the tang lays on its side and the Gobie starts cleaning him. Fun to watch.