I've had it!!!! Giving up i think!!!

[carshark]

i swear if it isnt one thing its another.....so i had an ich outbreak in the tank in the process of medicating it and today i look and my starfish is dead....now i know what your thinking, no im not using copper (malachite green/formeldhyde instead) anyway, so this is my second outbreak in 6 months, and i havent lost anyone to it yet and the product i used last time killed it(ich) which is what im using now, and anyway so my ph dives, my other levels are fine, but the alk and ph is obviously low(ph is about 7.8-8.0) im hoping that was a result of my star dying but who knows...so anyway i have 24 gallons of new water ready to use to do a water change before i administer another treatment, ive done every thing i know or have been told to do, its getting to the point where it isnt even enjoyable anymore its just fixing errors. now i do have a healthy foxface, percula,diamond goby,coral banded shrimp, clean up crew(10 red legged hermits, 5 astrea, 2 turboes) and a blue hippo which has the ich (newbie about 6 days) my tank set up is as follows:
75 gallon, 20lbs of beautiful purple fiji rock (50 more cycling with new QT tank), 90 lbs of substrate(40 lbs of aragonite, 50 lbs of fine grade sand), misc base rock/lava rock, emporer 400 bio wheel(used for about 2 years on freshwater), CPR bakpak skimmer, 300 watt heater, 2 40W 18,000K flourescents, two powerheads(penguin 1140, and a penguin 550)(not including ph for skimmer) always used real ocean water brand water as opposed to mixing (it works well during water changes)
water parameters:
temp.-77-78
salinity-1.022-1.023
ph-7.8-8.0.....uuggh what the heck its been 8.2 since i could remember
ammonia-0
nitrite-0
nitrate-0
alk.-ideal range but lower than usual
the other thing is when i started using RO water from a grocery store, it started this low ph epidemic or maybe it was coincidence...
oh while im in this medicating stage my active carbon is taken out and my skimmer is off.
so what can i do to better my system within not much of a budget right now?
or should i tear down the whole deal and start over? :scared:

 

[carshark]

 

[carshark]

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[carshark]

so apparently this was a useless thread no one is responding, but if you read this and look at my equiptment list and see where i could improve some things on a decent budget id like to hear them for sure..........

 

[mr_bill]

Hows your gas exchange at the water surface? Do you have good surface aggitation? Maybe you didn't realize it but your water level in your display either rose or fell a bit and while you had good PH for a while it has since fallen do to less gas exchange.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Mr_Bill
Hows your gas exchange at the water surface? Do you have good surface aggitation? Maybe you didn't realize it but your water level in your display either rose or fell a bit and while you had good PH for a while it has since fallen do to less gas exchange.
THAT actually isnt an idea that i thought of however i do have a filter that pushes out quite a bit of surface agitation, and i have a powerhead at the top that also provides a little more, but maybe its not enough...ill try to do that, hopeully that will cure it....but in any case i have one less powerhead at the moment, its in the new water bin circulating the water for a change tonight before i medicate the tank again......thanks for the idea i didnt think of it.

 

[magickyl]

If you do give up i'll take the whole setup off your hands....

Just joking. Good luck. I hope better agitation works for you.

 

[mr_bill]

Whats the PH of your new water right after you buy it?
As for the agitation thing, A really great trick that creates some good surface agitation is about 1" above the water level in your display where your return is at take a sharp pointy knife and create a pin hole in the tube facing towards the middle of your tank. Sounds funny but what this does is create a small water jet that fires out onto the surface and really gets that surface stired up. I originally made this hole as a precaution for power loss so that the display water did not overflow my sump, but it also doubles as a great agitator. My PH is 8.4.

 

[mr.p]

Don't give up dude your tank is to beautiful to give up hopefully that will encourage you

. but yeah sooner or later you'll find out the problem and then get things straight. When i first started out after a month or so i have a yellow tang/blue tang and damsel all die on the same day and i felt like giving up. i stayed positive and patient and rebuilt and haven't lost a fish in almost two months. hopefully i'm not jinxing anything but you can turn it around.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Mr_Bill
Whats the PH of your new water right after you buy it?
As for the agitation thing, A really great trick that creates some good surface agitation is about 1" above the water level in your display where your return is at take a sharp pointy knife and create a pin hole in the tube facing towards the middle of your tank. Sounds funny but what this does is create a small water jet that fires out onto the surface and really gets that surface stired up. I originally made this hole as a precaution for power loss so that the display water did not overflow my sump, but it also doubles as a great agitator. My PH is 8.4.
the ph of the preboxed water is right at 8.2 it has maintained my ph very well, however i discovered my salinity was too high( cant believe i didnt think of this before i started this rant of a thread) i was using a plastic hydrometer and!! didnt know about topoffs, im not kidding, but anyway i just figured the boxed water was a perfect solution to just add water and eventually fish!! lol lol lol i know better now, but i guess i didnt really think of the ph problem and i had been using RO since i found out i needed top offs... dont laugh plz but so i guess it started right after using ro water, and i was also under the impression that you should use a conditioner for the RO water, i think im false and i think thats why PH has dropped am i right or???

 

[tang3]

I have also attempted to give up but found that i couldnt. Just do your best to find the problem. (i dont know that much or i would help you more) Take a water sample down to the lfs and see wut they think. ( you probly alredy thought of that) well thats all i can do sorry
good luck man.
P.S. great tank, love it

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Tang3
I have also attempted to give up but found that i couldnt. Just do your best to find the problem. (i dont know that much or i would help you more) Take a water sample down to the lfs and see wut they think. ( you probly alredy thought of that) well thats all i can do sorry
good luck man.
P.S. great tank, love it
thanks for the compliment and yes it does help to hear it looks decent and that im on the way of getting a great set up, i know now that im not just doing things all wrong and im actually excited to keep going.. thank you...oh and by the way i have a test kit that is quite efficient and was very expensive.. anyway thank you for the compliment

 

[hot883]

Just remember nothing, is easy or worth anything if it is. This hobby has to be dealt with slowly when adding, and quickly when dealing with problems.
1st, alot of problems stem from over feeding, ok not the problem here. For your size of tank you need like 1,400 gph turn over ATLEAST. The more water movement the better you are in most cases. I have a 55 with 2 hob filters and 2 PH turning around 1100 gph. Thats atleast 20 times the tank size in turnover. Ensuring there are no "dead spots" of unmoving water. Some fish are harder to keep then others. Tangs are notorious for getting ICH and repeating this disease. IMO you tank is not large enough for the tang and he is getting stressed out leading to the low immune system ultimately resulting in loss of slime and increased chances for the ich to attach. Some agree with this, some ppl don't. Just my $.02 worth. A stress free tang will do well in a 110 plus gallon that has like 6' of swimming room.
Not harpin on ya, just giving you my observations.
When top off water is added use R/O or D/I water (NO SALT ADDED). Water evaporates, salt does not. Salt water does need to be changed weekly/bi-weekly IMO to replace lost or used trace elements that only fresh made sw can replenish. The recommended way to do this is to add salt to R/O and mix it using a dedicated container (rubbermaid etc.) and add ph or airstone to agitate or to keep it stirred up so it will "stablize" FOR ATLEAST 24 HRS. Then add to the tank. Once that LR in the QT has been cured, add it to the display and leave the QT empty with only water in it so you can effectively treat upcoming elements to occur. In the event that you need a quick QT, you can always just use your existing tank water for the qt.
Hope some of this makes sense or is helpful. Any questions, feel free to ask or tell me I'm crazy. Whatevers. We are here to help. Tank does look nice by the way! Good luck, DON'T GIVE UP! Barry

 

[beth]

All inverts, live rock critters, corals, will dies when using any meds, and the one you are using is far from harmless. Formaldehyde.....have any idea what that is?

 

[mr_bill]

Originally Posted by carshark
the ph of the preboxed water is right at 8.2 it has maintained my ph very well, however i discovered my salinity was too high( cant believe i didnt think of this before i started this rant of a thread) i was using a plastic hydrometer and!! didnt know about topoffs, im not kidding, but anyway i just figured the boxed water was a perfect solution to just add water and eventually fish!! lol lol lol i know better now, but i guess i didnt really think of the ph problem and i had been using RO since i found out i needed top offs... dont laugh plz but so i guess it started right after using ro water, and i was also under the impression that you should use a conditioner for the RO water, i think im false and i think thats why PH has dropped am i right or???

Ohhhhh, so you were doing top-offs with saltwater? Ya that will really raise your salt level. To correct this start doing water changes with the correct level of salinity until your at the correct level. A sudden drop in salinity might be too stressful to the fish if you just up and drop the salinity back to a normal level all at once.

 

[hot883]

Originally Posted by Beth
All inverts, live rock critters, corals, will dies when using any meds, and the one you are using is far from harmless. Formaldehyde.....have any idea what that is?

Maybe it's to preserve them .HA!

 

[carshark]

thanks a bunch but i dont have an RO unit, but i dont use salt for the top offs, but yeah the blue is only about 2 inches but i think youre right in the latter stage in her life, but i had to appease the GF she wanted a "dori" well it appears to have cost me big time here, everyone was happy and disease free, i didnt have a qt at the time, too late now, but never the less, i have a penguin 1140 gph powerhead, and a 550 gph powerhead, are those not true readings or? and i have a 400gph filter i dunno i thought i had enough circulation but maybe not....

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by hot883
Maybe it's to preserve them .HA!
haha maybe its just malachite....its not a copper based solution, the inverts are doing well, i think i made a mistake when saying formeldehyde

 

[ophiura]

Haven't read the whole thread I'll admit - stopped at the first few sentences. Formaldehyde, FWIW, is used as a preservative for many of these animals (not the best for seastars but still...will kill them, as will malachite green in many cases, IMO)

 

[coopersx]

<SNIP> "Just remember nothing, is easy or worth anything if it is."
Hey!!! That's not a very nice thing to say about my wife.
BTW...she is worth a whole lot to the various Credit Card companies.
Take care, Wayne