Kordon's Ich Attack
- Thread starter benguck
- Start date
darth tang
Active Member
What it doesn't tell you is this.....it doesn't work. I treated my tank with it for about two weeks and the ich was still present. It is reef safe because it doesn't help. If the fish get better....they would have in the first place by their own immune system.
It also turns your water an ugly brown for an extended period of time. You also have to shut off any filtration while using it......which isn't advisable.
It also turns your water an ugly brown for an extended period of time. You also have to shut off any filtration while using it......which isn't advisable.
noah's ark
Member
I used it and it worked. Unless they fought it off themselves. It takes a little longer than the average stuff but it's from what I hear the only thing safe for inverts. My water was yucky brownish for 10 LONG DAYS! You dont shut down filtration just remove carbon. Everything lived and it went away. Good luck!
~Tonia
~Tonia
hot883
Active Member
Originally Posted by Noah's Ark
I used it and it worked. Unless they fought it off themselves. It takes a little longer than the average stuff but it's from what I hear the only thing safe for inverts. My water was yucky brownish for 10 LONG DAYS! Everything lived and it went away. Good luck!
~Tonia
Maybe cycled through the "on fish stage" and now they are free swimmers. If it does not hurt inverts and lr, then IT CAN't WORK. How can it be selective and kill ICH but not inverts
This gets brought up atleast twice a week. There is NO miracle cure for ICH.. Hyposalinity or Copper. 2 choices!
I used it and it worked. Unless they fought it off themselves. It takes a little longer than the average stuff but it's from what I hear the only thing safe for inverts. My water was yucky brownish for 10 LONG DAYS! Everything lived and it went away. Good luck!
~Tonia
Maybe cycled through the "on fish stage" and now they are free swimmers. If it does not hurt inverts and lr, then IT CAN't WORK. How can it be selective and kill ICH but not inverts
noah's ark
Member
Originally Posted by hot883
Maybe cycled through the "on fish stage" and now they are free swimmers. If it does not hurt inverts and lr, then IT CAN't WORK. How can it be selective and kill ICH but not inverts
This gets brought up atleast twice a week. There is NO miracle cure for ICH.. Hyposalinity or Copper. 2 choices!
I do very well know that ich can be in a different stage and from what I have read before it's not a cure all and will come back but I have NEVER had it since. That was it in a year. That is my experience with ich attack
Maybe cycled through the "on fish stage" and now they are free swimmers. If it does not hurt inverts and lr, then IT CAN't WORK. How can it be selective and kill ICH but not inverts
I do very well know that ich can be in a different stage and from what I have read before it's not a cure all and will come back but I have NEVER had it since. That was it in a year. That is my experience with ich attack
jerthunter
Active Member
I always see these types of thread and always see the same arugements against all forms of any ich treatment. Everytime I find myself compelled to respond, not because I believe there is a miracle cure for ich but because there MAY be a better way then is used currently. It is entirely possible that the liquid in the bottle is just some expensive colored water, unfortunately they do not tell us WHAT is in it or WHY it would work. However the fact that something is not harmful to most aquarium inhabitants including bacteria and invertabrates does not mean it cannot target a certain type of organism with an unique cell structure. I guess it just kind of bothers me when I see this claim that there is no possible way to target only one organism.
The reason that the manufacturer's do not list ingredients is because the ingredients are mostly herbal in nature. How much faith would anyone put in an herbal cure?
The truth is, the only somewhat effective herbal cure is garlic.
Bottom line, the burden of proof is on the manufacture, not on the hobbyist. If it works, then let the manufacture PROVE that it works, with reliable evidence and studies and by listing the ingredients. It is not up to the hobbyists to be the Guinna Pig for the manufactures' latest snake oil.
The truth is, the only somewhat effective herbal cure is garlic.
Bottom line, the burden of proof is on the manufacture, not on the hobbyist. If it works, then let the manufacture PROVE that it works, with reliable evidence and studies and by listing the ingredients. It is not up to the hobbyists to be the Guinna Pig for the manufactures' latest snake oil.
jerthunter
Active Member
Originally Posted by drea
well, maybe it dosen't work... but there are herbisides that kill weeds and not grass, so it is possible.. or will be soon enough... i'll bet money on that!
YAY!! someone who agrees with my point!!
Of course I agree with Beth that the manufacturer should show evidence of why it works!!
well, maybe it dosen't work... but there are herbisides that kill weeds and not grass, so it is possible.. or will be soon enough... i'll bet money on that!
YAY!! someone who agrees with my point!!
Of course I agree with Beth that the manufacturer should show evidence of why it works!!
Originally Posted by drea
well, maybe it doesn't work... but there are herbisides that kill weeds and not grass, so it is possible.. or will be soon enough... i'll bet money on that!
Herbicides are chemicals created by human beings to control or kill unwanted terrestrial plants.
Herbals or herbs are plants that are used in cooking and sometimes natural meds. None of which have anything to do with marine animals.
well, maybe it doesn't work... but there are herbisides that kill weeds and not grass, so it is possible.. or will be soon enough... i'll bet money on that!
Herbicides are chemicals created by human beings to control or kill unwanted terrestrial plants.
Herbals or herbs are plants that are used in cooking and sometimes natural meds. None of which have anything to do with marine animals.
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Of course I agree with Beth that the manufacturer should show evidence of why it works!!
Which you will never see...because they don't work. However, the manufacture is able to make a few bucks from folks who believe in snake oil treatments.
Of course I agree with Beth that the manufacturer should show evidence of why it works!!
Which you will never see...because they don't work. However, the manufacture is able to make a few bucks from folks who believe in snake oil treatments.
drea
Active Member
its called technology,,, i know you are very well educated, but they fkn put pig hearts in people now, we can clone animals... and yet there will never be a cure for ich????
come on.............................................
sooner or later they will have one..... just look at half the stuff available for sw fish that yrs ago didn't even exist...
i won't drag this on, to each their own.........
come on.............................................
sooner or later they will have one..... just look at half the stuff available for sw fish that yrs ago didn't even exist...
i won't drag this on, to each their own.........
jerthunter
Active Member
What is with the negativity. Somebody once said never say never. There are major breakthroughs and discoverys that happen all the time in the world of science. There are many 'herbal' remedies that until recently were laughed off by doctors for years and now are getting massive support from the medical community. Of course we must realize for every one good herbal remedy there are probably over a million ones that do not work. Saying that there will never be a reef safe ich treatment is in my opinion ludicrous, this is like saying that everything there is to know has already been discovered and if this was so this would be a very boring time to live.
angelfan28
Member
i at one time always had ich problems...not i tweaked a few things and use the kordon's when i rarely get a small out break and it clears it up quickly...and as far as there immune systems fighting against it, it's hard to believe when i dont have ich problems...the only time i usually get a little ich is when i add new fish...but thans to kordon's or luck it goes away quickly...
scubadoo
Active Member
The manufacturer(s) of these products should be ashamed. They make claims that are not supported in science. They do not provide studies and/or results of experiments proving this stuff works.
In fact, crap like this is not only ineffective but it uses valuable treatment time and can damage water qulaity. I would never add somethng to a closed marine system where contents are unknown and concentrations are unknown. Just because something CLAIMS to be 100% organic does not mean it will not damage your system or your livestock.
Yes, we should keep an open mind...but before somethng is placed on the market there should be documented proof that the claims are true.
The only PROVEN additive that will kill unattached parasites is copper..and that is not a good option to use.
hanging one of those healing stones/prisms above your system would be just as effective as this voodoo mixture of water and slime coat additive.
In fact, crap like this is not only ineffective but it uses valuable treatment time and can damage water qulaity. I would never add somethng to a closed marine system where contents are unknown and concentrations are unknown. Just because something CLAIMS to be 100% organic does not mean it will not damage your system or your livestock.
Yes, we should keep an open mind...but before somethng is placed on the market there should be documented proof that the claims are true.
The only PROVEN additive that will kill unattached parasites is copper..and that is not a good option to use.
hanging one of those healing stones/prisms above your system would be just as effective as this voodoo mixture of water and slime coat additive.
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by drea
well, maybe it dosen't work... but there are herbisides that kill weeds and not grass, so it is possible.. or will be soon enough... i'll bet money on that!
The manufacturer(s) have no motivation to conduct R&D as long as hobbyists continue to purchase this garbage. it is cheaply produced and marked up high.
well, maybe it dosen't work... but there are herbisides that kill weeds and not grass, so it is possible.. or will be soon enough... i'll bet money on that!
The manufacturer(s) have no motivation to conduct R&D as long as hobbyists continue to purchase this garbage. it is cheaply produced and marked up high.
jmick
Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
The manufacturer(s) have no motivation to conduct R&D as long as hobbyists continue to purchase this garbage. it is cheaply produced and marked up high.
Very well said! Also, I think it’s a reasonable assumption to say that it’s marketing and not a group of engineers/scientists that come up with these products that offer zero value to consumers. I tend to believe that most of these types of products are garbage and we shouldn’t waste our money on them. A better investment would be a small QT tank so you could treat your infected fish with copper or better yet, QT all new fish before introducing them to the main tank.
The manufacturer(s) have no motivation to conduct R&D as long as hobbyists continue to purchase this garbage. it is cheaply produced and marked up high.
Very well said! Also, I think it’s a reasonable assumption to say that it’s marketing and not a group of engineers/scientists that come up with these products that offer zero value to consumers. I tend to believe that most of these types of products are garbage and we shouldn’t waste our money on them. A better investment would be a small QT tank so you could treat your infected fish with copper or better yet, QT all new fish before introducing them to the main tank.
darth tang
Active Member
Kordon makes a plethora of ich related products. Ich attack, ich prevent, and rid ich.
The also make a chelated copper solution for ich treatment.
Let me ask you this.....if ick attack works and is completely safe and "proven" why would they feel the need to make 3 other forms of ich treatment? If their product is good and works, why waste the time and money to make a copper form of ich treatment. Your natural herbal ich treatment is suppossed to work. From a scientific standpoint it is cheaper for them to only make the herbal treatment than to deal with the epa, osha, and waste water management division when they make the copper treatment.
Their ich prevent is all natural herbs as well....if this worked (as you are supposed to periodically dose with this product and you will never get ich) why would they need to make another ich related product? If your product "prevents" ich it should also remove ich as it is taking care of the symptons that cause ich anyway.
Just something to think about.
something else to think about...read the following from their website regarding their two products.
"DIRECTIONS FOR USE in Fresh, Brackish, or Salt Water:
Shake Well Before Each Use. Remove any carbon filtration media.
For treating stressed fish and when netting, handling or adding new fish, amphibians,turtles and other aquatic reptiles: Add 1 teaspoonful (approx. 5 mL) of Prevent·Ich for every 10 gallons (approx. 40 liters) of water. Repeat dosage daily, 3-7 days of treatment will usually be sufficient. Cold water conditions may require a longer treatment time. Water changes are not required for this treatment to be effective.
For established or severe infections use IchAttack, a more powerful herbal remedy and continue until a cure is effected."
And then this,
"DIRECTIONS FOR USE (in Fresh, Brackish, or Salt Water
Shake Well Before Each Use. Carbon should be removed from water filters during treatment
For Diseases, Abrasions and Wounds:
Add 1 teaspoonful (approx. 5 mL) of Ich·Attack for every 10 gallons (approx. 40 liters) of water. Repeat dosage daily for 1 week. For the treatment of ich, continue the treatment for at least 3 days after the last indication (white spots) of the disease is observed. If the symptoms have not cleared up after a week the daily treatment dose can be increased by 50 to 100% (1.5 to 2 teaspoonfuls) and continued for a longer period of time. Continue until the symptoms have disappeared, then make a 25% water change.
As a Disease Inhibitor and Preventative:
Ich Attack is recommended for use in aquariums, ponds and quarantine tanks to help the fishes in resisting external disease outbreaks. Follow the instructions for Diseases, Abrasions and Wounds.
For Netting, Handling or Adding New Fish, Amphibians, Turtles and Other Aquatic Reptiles: Add 1 teaspoonful (approx. 5 mL) of Ich·Attack for every 10 gallons (approx. 40 liters) of water. Repeat dosage daily, 3-7 days of treatment will usually be sufficient. Cold water conditions may require a longer treatment time. If the animal's condition appears to be less than satisfactory during this time, treat as recommended for severe infections. After the treatment period is over, make a 25% water change.".
Take note, no matter what the sympton, the dosage is the same for all. It says for more intense ich outbreaks use ich attack instead of ich prevent....as it is stronger.......let me ask you this, do we have to use MORE copper or lower the salinty in hyposalinity even more if the outbreak is really severe? No, you don't. No matter how many organisms of ich you have present, they are all suseptable to the same exact dosage of medicine.
Ich is like a headache. You get one, you take two tylenol. If you get one again, you don't take four tylenol this time. It isn't the same headache that just got stronger. It is a new one and subject to the exact same proven remedy.
I am rambling....better stop.
The also make a chelated copper solution for ich treatment.
Let me ask you this.....if ick attack works and is completely safe and "proven" why would they feel the need to make 3 other forms of ich treatment? If their product is good and works, why waste the time and money to make a copper form of ich treatment. Your natural herbal ich treatment is suppossed to work. From a scientific standpoint it is cheaper for them to only make the herbal treatment than to deal with the epa, osha, and waste water management division when they make the copper treatment.
Their ich prevent is all natural herbs as well....if this worked (as you are supposed to periodically dose with this product and you will never get ich) why would they need to make another ich related product? If your product "prevents" ich it should also remove ich as it is taking care of the symptons that cause ich anyway.
Just something to think about.
something else to think about...read the following from their website regarding their two products.
"DIRECTIONS FOR USE in Fresh, Brackish, or Salt Water:
Shake Well Before Each Use. Remove any carbon filtration media.
For treating stressed fish and when netting, handling or adding new fish, amphibians,turtles and other aquatic reptiles: Add 1 teaspoonful (approx. 5 mL) of Prevent·Ich for every 10 gallons (approx. 40 liters) of water. Repeat dosage daily, 3-7 days of treatment will usually be sufficient. Cold water conditions may require a longer treatment time. Water changes are not required for this treatment to be effective.
For established or severe infections use IchAttack, a more powerful herbal remedy and continue until a cure is effected."
And then this,
"DIRECTIONS FOR USE (in Fresh, Brackish, or Salt Water
Shake Well Before Each Use. Carbon should be removed from water filters during treatment
For Diseases, Abrasions and Wounds:
Add 1 teaspoonful (approx. 5 mL) of Ich·Attack for every 10 gallons (approx. 40 liters) of water. Repeat dosage daily for 1 week. For the treatment of ich, continue the treatment for at least 3 days after the last indication (white spots) of the disease is observed. If the symptoms have not cleared up after a week the daily treatment dose can be increased by 50 to 100% (1.5 to 2 teaspoonfuls) and continued for a longer period of time. Continue until the symptoms have disappeared, then make a 25% water change.
As a Disease Inhibitor and Preventative:
Ich Attack is recommended for use in aquariums, ponds and quarantine tanks to help the fishes in resisting external disease outbreaks. Follow the instructions for Diseases, Abrasions and Wounds.
For Netting, Handling or Adding New Fish, Amphibians, Turtles and Other Aquatic Reptiles: Add 1 teaspoonful (approx. 5 mL) of Ich·Attack for every 10 gallons (approx. 40 liters) of water. Repeat dosage daily, 3-7 days of treatment will usually be sufficient. Cold water conditions may require a longer treatment time. If the animal's condition appears to be less than satisfactory during this time, treat as recommended for severe infections. After the treatment period is over, make a 25% water change.".
Take note, no matter what the sympton, the dosage is the same for all. It says for more intense ich outbreaks use ich attack instead of ich prevent....as it is stronger.......let me ask you this, do we have to use MORE copper or lower the salinty in hyposalinity even more if the outbreak is really severe? No, you don't. No matter how many organisms of ich you have present, they are all suseptable to the same exact dosage of medicine.
Ich is like a headache. You get one, you take two tylenol. If you get one again, you don't take four tylenol this time. It isn't the same headache that just got stronger. It is a new one and subject to the exact same proven remedy.
I am rambling....better stop.