lowering my ph

[earlybird]

Originally Posted by gman08016
Ok guys tested my ro water Between 8.0-8.2.Tested tank right now 8.4 last night 8.6.Going to watch it and get a new test kit tomorrow just for the safe side.All other test are in line .Thanks for the input but it sounds like i'am around a bunch of mad scientist ready for a lab experiment.

RO water should have pH of 7.0. How long since the filters have been changed on your unit? Run the gamut of tests on your RO water too. There's got to be some alk in there seeping through.

 

[sk8shorty01]

I have started the experiment because I really want to know what the outcome will be. I dont mind if I am wrong, I just want to make sure that the correct information is being given out, and if this site is wrong that would be a good thing because I could let them know that my testing came up with different results than theirs. Thanks for the idea. How long do you think I should wait to test again?

 

[gman08016]

Originally Posted by earlybird
RO water should have pH of 7.0. How long since the filters have been changed on your unit? Run the gamut of tests on your RO water too. There's got to be some alk in there seeping through.
Going to test ro water again.My ro unit is 6-8 months old

 

[earlybird]

Probably due for a filter change.

 

[sk8shorty01]

have you every changed your filters??? at 6-8 months old, I would assume that some of the filters would have needed to be changed. I cant remember off hand which ones are replaced at roughly what time, but I am pretty sure there are 2 that fall within that 6-8 month mark.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by sk8shorty01
I have started the experiment because I really want to know what the outcome will be. I dont mind if I am wrong, I just want to make sure that the correct information is being given out, and if this site is wrong that would be a good thing because I could let them know that my testing came up with different results than theirs. Thanks for the idea. How long do you think I should wait to test again?
Maybe 24 hrs? I edited my post above while you were posting this. May be worth reading, let us know what happens!

 

[flricordia]

Originally Posted by gman08016
Ok guys tested my ro water Between 8.0-8.2.Tested tank right now 8.4 last night 8.6.Going to watch it and get a new test kit tomorrow just for the safe side.All other test are in line .Thanks for the input but it sounds like i'am around a bunch of mad scientist ready for a lab experiment.

Why are you trying to lower your ph again? 8.4 is ideal from what I understand. Salinity at 35ppt and ph of 8.5 is what natural reefs run. I keep mine there and my corals do fantastic and fish are healthy. Am I wrong in this and need to lower it? The only corals or fish I have lost since start-up Aug 06 is a jawfish that jumped out and zoanthids that were bought closed and started to fungus and I tossed them right away. Don't understand why you would want a lower ph than what is ideal.

 

[gman08016]

Originally Posted by Flricordia
Why are you trying to lower your ph again? 8.4 is ideal from what I understand. Salinity at 35ppt and ph of 8.5 is what natural reefs run. I keep mine there and my corals do fantastic and fish are healthy. Am I wrong in this and need to lower it? The only corals or fish I have lost since start-up Aug 06 is a jawfish that jumped out and zoanthids that were bought closed and started to fungus and I tossed them right away. Don't understand why you would want a lower ph than what is ideal.
Well it was at 8.6 and i did not want it to go any higher.My ph normally stays at 8.2.I use the same salt,water,ro unit,bucket,cup,hose,&sink.Ideal readings is a broad line When it comes to this stuff everybody has different ideal readings.thanks

 

[sk8shorty01]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
I'll agree that baking soda is not a long term fix; but to raise ph quickly and safely, as in making a dip, QT, etc--it works great. BS neutralizes acid, so ph has to rise. From Fenner's "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist", IMO the most quoted source of hobbiest info, (page 152 in my copy:"To counteract the natural tendency of aquarium PH to fall or become more acidic over time, a weekly dose of a buffering agent-either baking soda or an aquarium product-can be a simple, beneficial measure." I'm beating this to death, but there are a few "urban myths" on this site and this is one of them. If a source with any more credibility than Bob Fenner comes along with the opposite viewpoint, I'll change my mind.

I understand your stance, and I agree that Fenner is THE FISH EXPERT and also the most revered person in the hobby. I do not actually own this book, but that is great info. I believe that the site I checked could be incorrect, so I am doing my own test in order to prove this and email them and let them know that my results were different than their own. I read my other post and realize that it might have sounded that I was questioning the information being given on the saltwaterfish.com website, but I actually meant my source was probably giving false information. I will let you know what I find out for sure!

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
Yeah; I've effectively used baking soda to RAISE ph for years. There may be some weird situation where it would lower it; but baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) is the common alkaline substance we learned about in 6th grade science. That's why it helps an acid stomach. Fenner even recommends it as a ph increaser in his book. I'm with Florida Joe (and I'm with ALL Vietnam Vets), please post a link showing it lowers ph. I think this another of the myths that seem to self-perpetuate on forums. Like carnivores create more waste than herbivores.
thank you brother not for siding with me but for understanding that us vietnam vets were just doing our job but i guesss thats for an other post

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by florida joe
thank you brother not for siding with me but for understanding that us vietnam vets were just doing our job but i guesss thats for an other post

I agree with you on both points!! Thanks for serving!

 

[mikesin]

gman08016 - Do you by chance have an algae outbreak? Not sure how algae effects saltwater but in ponds it raised the pH. Just a thought.

 

[sk8shorty01]

thats a good point mikesin. Does the algae cause the pH to go up, or does the algae amount increase because the pH is high? Just wondering....

 

[sk8shorty01]

By the way, I have started the experiment. I will post the results tomorrow... I took 4 gallon bowls I had (measured with a measuring cup) and put salt water from my tank in to each bowl (1 gallon each). Then I left the first without the baking soda, in the second I put 1 tsp, the third I put 2 tsp, and the last one I put 4 tsp. I will let it sit overnight and take a reading tomorrow (I have the bowls sitting with lids on them floating in my sump so that the temp stays consistant with my tanks temp.

 

[mikesin]

It has been my experience with koi ponds that algae raises pH. I don't know for sure why, they just seem to go hand in hand. Not recommending baking soda but I used it in my ponds to help stabilize the pH, (BS raises the kh which stabilizes the pH)due to outsides environment such as rain (low pH). As a result the pH was dead on at 8.3. If the pH started to raise I was certain to see alot of string algae. Just my observations....

 

[mikesin]

sk8shorty01 - you are attempting to raise or lower pH?
if so, what was the starting pH reading?

 

[florida joe]

This is what I love most about this forum we can agree or disagree but it is all for the good of the hobby we love so there are no winners or losers no right or wrong only the expanding of our knowledge

 

[sepulatian]

gman, being that your RO is in ideal range, which is odd, it normally tests low on PH, tell us what your substrate consists of. What brand of salt are you using? Have you tested your alk? If you have buffers in more than your salt mix then that will cause your PH to be high. It should not exceed 8.4 btw, baking soda is used as a buffer to keep the ph up.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by sk8shorty01
This is not true. Baking soda will slightly lower pH (look up the effects of baking soda on pH online, I have found quite a few sites that back this up) but will greatly raise your ALK.
Alkalinity is the buffering capacity of the water. Buffering capacity is the ablility to keep the PH up. You must have read something wrong. Baking soda is a natural buffer. It does not last long though. Vinegar is a temporary solution to lower ph. It is acidic. Find out why the ph is the way that it is. It is easier to find a solution when you know the root of the problem.

 

[sk8shorty01]

Well as for my experiment, here is what I have found after testing the water today. The temp of the water was 79 degrees in each bowl (I floated them in the sump to keep them all consistant with my tank temp). In bowl number 1 (no baking soda added) the pH was at 8.3... bowl number 2 (with 1 tsp added) the pH was at 8.1... bowl number 3 (with 2 tsp added) the pH was at 8.0... and the last bowl (with 4 tsp added) the pH was back up to 8.3... I thought this was kind of strange that it went down until it reached a certain point of dissolved baking soda, and then it went back up to the normal pH.
sep- I understand that baking soda is a buffer. I also understand that the "job" of a buffer is to keep the pH stable while you adjust other chemicals within the water. In the articles I read, they state that the baking soda works as a buffer for your pH (keeping it stable) and raises the ALK tremendously. I would have to say that if the pH went just slightly down (as I stated exact numbers in a previous post) and the ALK skyrocketed, then the baking soda would still be considered a buffer. Although the pH would go slightly down, it is still keeping the pH up considering the amount it would normally drop in the case of changing the ALK without controlling the pH. This is my understanding of how it works, which could be incorrect, I am just going by what I have read. I did my own controlled experiment, although my data was quite odd so I would like to see someone else attempt this and see what they get as well. Thanks for your post as I do agree in what you are saying (baking soda does keep the pH up, but it seems to keep it up based on the difference between what it would do if there was no buffer) and do not mind being wrong, I would just like to know what the correct answer is because the more I read, the more sites contradict each other.
also sep- here is the site, maybe you could read this and see if I am in fact reading something wrong. This is the site I got my information from.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.php