Man Made Global Warming is Confirmed

bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed#post_3432013
I'm not willing to say, we go meddle in the middle east for purely oil interests. However, to accept the premise, you realize why we'd have to get oil from the middle east? Because costs associated with environmental regulations forced us out of our own back yard. Sooo, who's fault would that be?
Our policy makers bowing down to OPEC nations against the best interest of US citizens. My personal opinion of course.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed/20#post_3432017
Our policy makers bowing down to OPEC nations against the best interest of US citizens. My personal opinion of course.
We wouldn't have to "bow down to OPEC" If we didn't have to deal with the environmental wackos... It is the same reason it is now viable to build a 1000 foot long ship to be an offshore refinery, or drill in 8,000 feet of water...
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed/20#post_3432026
We wouldn't have to "bow down to OPEC" If we didn't have to deal with the environmental wackos... It is the same reason it is now viable to build a 1000 foot long ship to be an offshore refinery, or drill in 8,000 feet of water...
If we refused to get involved in the Middle East gas prices would probably be much higher but I believe we would have a lot more local drilling, more local jobs, lower taxes, and more peace in the world. I truly believe that our primary reason for being in the Middle East is oil.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I disagree with folks who characterize the war in Iraq as "blood for oil". It isn't that simple. I also disagree with those who say it wasn't for oil-because that's too simple. The fact is if there is instability in the Middle East then the cost of oil from Mexico and Canada goes up equally with the oil produced in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. So it wasn't a war for oil, or else we'd be getting reparations from Iraq today instead of most of their oil going to China. And stabilizing the Middle East keeps oil flowing and the cost of all oil down, so it had everything to do with oil. If we don't need, directly and indirectly, oil from the Middle East, Gulf I and II never would have happened.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed/20#post_3432044
I disagree with folks who characterize the war in Iraq as "blood for oil". It isn't that simple. I also disagree with those who say it wasn't for oil-because that's too simple. The fact is if there is instability in the Middle East then the cost of oil from Mexico and Canada goes up equally with the oil produced in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. So it wasn't a war for oil, or else we'd be getting reparations from Iraq today instead of most of their oil going to China. And stabilizing the Middle East keeps oil flowing and the cost of all oil down, so it had everything to do with oil. If we don't need, directly and indirectly, oil from the Middle East, Gulf I and II never would have happened.
+1
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I think the thing people don't understand is whoever controls the middle east only has one thing going for them. Oil. They will sell it no matter what. Personally I'd worry more about Pakistan and India than the rest of that cesspool except for Israel.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
If there is a more innovative country on Earth then let me know but I believe the US can make oil obsolete as an energy source if we have the desire.
I know I want oil to be obsolete. You?
(Not specifically you Reef Raff, it's a general question)
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
oil could be obsolete now.....if you are willing to eat the cost. no other engergy source or product for that matter, can equal the amount of uses as oil.
since the dawn of man natural resources have been the root cause for all wars to some degree or another. oil becomes obsolete the next new energy?resource will cost an equal amount of lives unfortunately. look at world war 2. the only reason for germany to invade africa...natural resources. the were mining coal and turning it into fuel...but this was very inefficient at the time...thus oil was needed. be it land for food productio, to oil for economic stability...countries and men will fall due to it. replace oil and we create another resource to fight over.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed/20#post_3432064
oil could be obsolete now.....if you are willing to eat the cost. no other engergy source or product for that matter, can equal the amount of uses as oil.
since the dawn of man natural resources have been the root cause for all wars to some degree or another. oil becomes obsolete the next new energy?resource will cost an equal amount of lives unfortunately. look at world war 2. the only reason for germany to invade africa...natural resources. the were mining coal and turning it into fuel...but this was very inefficient at the time...thus oil was needed. be it land for food productio, to oil for economic stability...countries and men will fall due to it. replace oil and we create another resource to fight over.
And Japan invaded the US for oil...
Realistically there isn't a replacement for oil, unless you want to use lambskin instead of latex...
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
I believe I did narrow it to "oil as an energy source" but not all latex is an oil derivitive. Some is from the sap of specific trees.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed/20#post_3432061
If there is a more innovative country on Earth then let me know but I believe the US can make oil obsolete as an energy source if we have the desire.
I know I want oil to be obsolete. You?
(Not specifically you Reef Raff, it's a general question)
If there was a viable technology to replace oil, gas and coal as an energy source I'd be all for it. The biggest roadblock is battery technology as far as electric cars. The government is paying people to install inefficient solar systems on their homes and for companies to build the same when they should be funding additional R&D into the technology which currently does a pretty crappy job of trapping solar energy. Thermal solar seems to be the best alternative form of "green" power generation as long as people near the coasts wont allow wind farms. We also need to get over the nuke phobia we have in this country.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed/20#post_3432061
If there is a more innovative country on Earth then let me know but I believe the US can make oil obsolete as an energy source if we have the desire.
I know I want oil to be obsolete. You?
(Not specifically you Reef Raff, it's a general question)
It will be obsolete one day at our rate of consumption. It might not be 50 years, it might not be 100, but one day, it will be gone. What then, do we have to show for it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed/20#post_3432104
If there was a viable technology to replace oil, gas and coal as an energy source I'd be all for it. The biggest roadblock is battery technology as far as electric cars. The government is paying people to install inefficient solar systems on their homes and for companies to build the same when they should be funding additional R&D into the technology which currently does a pretty crappy job of trapping solar energy. Thermal solar seems to be the best alternative form of "green" power generation as long as people near the coasts wont allow wind farms. We also need to get over the nuke phobia we have in this country.
I would say that there is a pretty good argument to use natural gas as a viable fuel and energy source. Propane powered cars are extremely efficient, and natural gas is very common and in abundance domestically. The exhaust from burning propane is practically nothing, because it burns cleanly. It's also probably one of the easiest resources to harvest. The problem comes from government regulations that put the $10,000+ tax per year on every propane powered car an owner has. If it weren't for the tax, I'de be machining up my own propane powered car yesterday. Using natural gas in a small engine/generator on every house to produce electricity would also eliminate the electric companies using so much coal to produce electricity. It would also create some jobs to maintain natural gas lines, and to keep generators in good repair. I would like to see a combination of solar/wind/natural gas as being the primary sources of energy in the future. But, that's just my 0.02.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed/20#post_3432104
If there was a viable technology to replace oil, gas and coal as an energy source I'd be all for it. The biggest roadblock is battery technology as far as electric cars. The government is paying people to install inefficient solar systems on their homes and for companies to build the same when they should be funding additional R&D into the technology which currently does a pretty crappy job of trapping solar energy. Thermal solar seems to be the best alternative form of "green" power generation as long as people near the coasts wont allow wind farms. We also need to get over the nuke phobia we have in this country.
The battery technology in existance today would be adequate if we made the commitment to electric cars. Nuclear would be the best current stepping stone to the next technology breakthrough in electric power generation. All that is needed is to imbed power lines in the roadway. That way all that's needed for a car is an induction coil, an electric motor, and a reasonable amout of battery to get from powered road to powered road. How many roads do you see that have no power lines along them? Yes, there are a few but they are a minority. Bury power cables into the roads and cars lose all that weight they currently have carting around their power source. A rechargeable battery is still a necessity for power outages and unpowered rural roads but replacing an engine with a motor more than makes up for that.
It would take a commitment though...
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Whatever we do to get off oil will take commitment, but the powers that be control everything with our dependence on oil - and those that have power and money, generally don't invest it into things that will put them out of business.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388844/man-made-global-warming-is-confirmed/20#post_3432114
It will be obsolete one day at our rate of consumption. It might not be 50 years, it might not be 100, but one day, it will be gone. What then, do we have to show for it?
I would say that there is a pretty good argument to use natural gas as a viable fuel and energy source. Propane powered cars are extremely efficient, and natural gas is very common and in abundance domestically. The exhaust from burning propane is practically nothing, because it burns cleanly. It's also probably one of the easiest resources to harvest. The problem comes from government regulations that put the $10,000+ tax per year on every propane powered car an owner has. If it weren't for the tax, I'de be machining up my own propane powered car yesterday. Using natural gas in a small engine/generator on every house to produce electricity would also eliminate the electric companies using so much coal to produce electricity. It would also create some jobs to maintain natural gas lines, and to keep generators in good repair. I would like to see a combination of solar/wind/natural gas as being the primary sources of energy in the future. But, that's just my 0.02.
Propane isn't as efficient as gasoline but it is clean. I am not aware of any state that adds a tax to nat. gas vehicles. There is a company called clean fuels technology that converts fleets over to natural gas.
 
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