Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

santamonica

Member
Anybody tried to modify this concept for a koi pond?
Several have done it. Solor scrubbers work great.
Do you have a reference for this occurrence?
Many reports from scrubber users, if that's what you mean.
 

cranberry

Active Member
No, that's a very specific claim and to make it, it would have to be measureable. How are hobbyists able to do this test? I mean phosphate coming to the "surface" of rock in the absence of it in the water... how would one know that?
I'm not knocking what you're doing. There's a lot of things that happen in this hobby that we do not have the means to measure. A hobbyist can come to the conclusion that "your" rig removes phosphate from the water column, measureable with tests before and after it's setup. But how would they figure that whole scenario of phosphate leeching from rocks and the presence of algae on the surfaces because of that in particular. That's a tall claim to make without it being evidence based. IMO that claim really takes away the validity of your project.
 

jrdregs

New Member
I have read for hours and hours about this stuff and I want to build a turf filter! I am pretty sure I can build one of these but I have a smaller sump for my 90gal and was thinking of doing the bucket thing. I just need some help figuring how I should pump the water. I do not have enough room above the sump for anything but have room for a bucket off to the side, so how do I get the water over there and back, what size pumps do I need? The other question is do I still need the bioballs? The plumbing is no problem just the pumping is in question.
Thanks in advance.
jrdregs
 

santamonica

Member
It's not a claim at all. Do some reading and asking on any chemistry section of any reef forum; it's a well accepted event, caused by any method of phosphate removal that you would like to try. You should know this.
Dregs: The bucket cannot be on the side; it must be above (so it can drain down), or below (where it is pumped up). You do not need bioballs once the scrubber is working.
Screen Width

[hr]
Gallons Per Hour (GPH)
1" 35
2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700
If you are doing an overflow feed, the overflow will determine how much flow you have to work with. You have to start from there, and size your screen accordingly. The maximum flow you'll get to the screen will be what's going through your overflow now. This is easy to figure out by counting how many seconds it takes your overflow to fill a one-gallon jug:
60 seconds = 60 gph
30 seconds = 120 gph
15 seconds = 240 gph
10 seconds = 360 gph
8 seconds = 450 gph
5 seconds = 720 gph
Take this gph number that you end up with, and divide by 35, to get the number of inches wide the screen should be. For example, if your overflow was 240 gph, then divide this by 35 to get 6.8 (or just say 7) inches. So your screen should be 7 inches wide.
How tall should the screen it be? That is determined by how much screen area you need, which is determined by how many gallons you have. Try to get one square inch of screen (lit both sides) for every gallon. If lit on only one side, double the screen area.


 

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/3057258
It's not a claim at all. Do some reading and asking on any chemistry section of any reef forum; it's a well accepted event, caused by any method of phosphate removal that you would like to try. You should know this.
Excuse me? I should know this? I believe that's why I questioned it, because I hadn't heard of it. After all the copying and pasting and quite lengthy posts you make, you couldn't link (or copy/paste) some of that well documented occurrence into this thread? But thanks for your time
 

santamonica

Member
Update: Best Ready-To-Use Light
Aside from a custom-made T5H0 light panel (lots of lumens, really near the screen), the best overall light you can buy is something like this outdoor landscaping light:

It's non-rusting, non-corrosive, weatherproof, thin, temperature resistant, compact flourescent, bolt-on, adjustable, and the bulbs are replaced easily:
RAB PLF39 39W CFL Landscape Flood 120V:
Housing and Lens: Corrosion and vandal resistant polycarbonate lens and housing.
Lamp: (3) 13W twin tube fluorescent GX23 (Included).
Lens Gasket: High temperature tubular silicone.
Finish: Architectural bronze.
Reflector: Anodized aluminum.
Voltage: 120 volts AC.
Mounting: Adjustable swivel mounting arm with 1/2" thread.
Size: 7.25" (18cm) wide, 9" (23cm) high, 3.5" (9cm) deep
Cost: $67 USD
This one is 39 watts (three bulbs) which is perfect for most screens, but they make smaller 26 and 13 watt (nano) size ones also. These types of light are surely available at larger home improvement stores, I just could not find them.
 
tomorrow morning i am going to rig up my aquarium for a 10x10 inch screen with 2 CFL 23 watt lights and hope for the best. right now i am having a problem with phosphates but not nitrates and i am hoping that this will knock it all out... wish me luck
 

nsajd

Member
After reading almost all 18 pages of this post...I have come to these conclusions:
A. My head hurts.
B. My 120 long tank has been running for 4 years with no issues without one of these wonderful devices.
C. I'm okay with doing a bi-weekly 20 gal. water change.
D. I'm also okay with cleaning out my skimmer.
E. My head still hurts from all of the scientifical knowledge thrown around on this thread.
F. And finally, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! My system is working fine, I have no issues with continuing on with my field expedient tank care system, so henceforth, I will not jump for the "I don't have touch my tank" system. When I see the 5 year results on it, with multiple testing on multiple tanks of all different sizes, (published, of course) to include a reef tank, then I may jump on the bandwagon. In the meantime, my corals, fish, and inverts are very happy. Thanks! Oh and my head still hurts.....
 
Originally Posted by nsajd
http:///forum/post/3058864
After reading almost all 18 pages of this post...I have come to these conclusions:
A. My head hurts.
B. My 120 long tank has been running for 4 years with no issues without one of these wonderful devices.
C. I'm okay with doing a bi-weekly 20 gal. water change.
D. I'm also okay with cleaning out my skimmer.
E. My head still hurts from all of the scientifical knowledge thrown around on this thread.
F. And finally, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! My system is working fine, I have no issues with continuing on with my field expedient tank care system, so henceforth, I will not jump for the "I don't have touch my tank" system. When I see the 5 year results on it, with multiple testing on multiple tanks of all different sizes, (published, of course) to include a reef tank, then I may jump on the bandwagon. In the meantime, my corals, fish, and inverts are very happy. Thanks! Oh and my head still hurts.....
what is your set up like ?
 

nsajd

Member
My setup is very simple and also kind of against the grain. I have a 120 gal long reef tank with a HOB refugium and a red sea skimmer, I use 4 different powerheads with different flow rates to "kind-of" create waves (works well), I also use an eheim canister filter(probably don't need to...I just keep it there...every time I clean it, it's clean) I don't have a sump. All I have is a 20gal tank under the DT that I prefill with RO water and salt for my water changes. For the gravity issues involved with the water change, I siphon out the water and clean the sand, then I drop my small sump pump into the 20 gal tank and turn it on. It works fine and doesn't really agitate anything since it only pumps 2 gal/min. Actually all my fish like it and tend to swim under the flow. My water changes take me about 15 minutes total, not counting the fill time for the 20 gal tank. (got a 20 gal storage tank for my RO unit.)
 

nsajd

Member
Sir Mixxalot,
If you're having an issue with phosphates alone, there is an underlying problem. If your nitrates and nitrites are at 0, you need to look at other issues that may be causing a phosphate spike. you can use phosphate reducing pads in a filter, but that still doesn't solve it. This algae scrubber still is not going to fix your problem.
 
when i say phos problems i am talking about very little phos problems... currently i am running a reactor with ROWA phos and a HUGE skimmer for a tank my size... i want to aim more torward natural filtration more than anything. Currently my tank is not stocked very much at all... i did not QT a kole tang and it ended up killing all my fish via ich. When all is said and done i want my 50 gallon to be VERY heavly stocked with fish and corals and i think a combination of my protein skimmer and a scrubber will be much more effective than my protein skimmer, cheato and a phos reactor. What do you think?
 

santamonica

Member
New Screen Material
Well after months of figuring out what are the best attributes are for a scrubber screen, and also after getting reports from hundreds of people as to what screen material worked best for them, I think I've come up with a material that is perfect for the job. I'm offering this screen for free to anyone who wants to try it (just pay shipping). Here are some pics, and some advantages, to this material:





It's Clear Plastic: This allows light from one side of the screen to shine through to the other side. For a (new) two-sided screen, this means both sides of the screen get light from both bulbs; for one-sided screens, it means the dark side will still get some light from the bulb on the other side.
It's Thick: 1/4 inch (6mm). This allows much more room for algae to grip to, so washings/cleanings will not strip all the algae (no matter how hard you scrub). For total algae removal, you can just use a hair brush to push all the algae completely out. If you already have a pipe that is cut for canvas (usually a 1/8" or 3mm slot), you'll need to widen it to 5/16" (8mm).
It Flows Through: Since the screen is not solid, it allows algae from both sides to attach to each other in the middle, thus giving the algae even greater holding-power during cleanings and high flow.
It's Semi-Rigid: This gives a small screen enough strength to hold up a pipe by itself, and gives large screens the ability to prevent waviness, and from flopping out of position.
It's Bendable: You can put a large screen in a small sink for cleaning; it also is possible to bend the screen into a circular-screen configuration (i.e., inside a bucket.)
It Holds Roughness (after you rough it up). Attack it with 30 grit sandpaper, wire brushes, power sanders, etc, and the roughness will stay. Give yourself about one hour to rough up both sides.
It's Sturdy: It resists hard cleanings, even if you use fingernails, credit cards, or razors.
It's Reef Safe: Is made of standard hard-plastic material.
It can be used as-is for vertical screens, or it can be glued to a solid plastic sheet for horizontal screens (the sheet keeps water from flowing through the screen.)
So if anyone wants to try it, the screens I'm starting out with are a little smaller than a square foot; they are about 11.5" X 11.5" (29cm X 29cm). If you need two of these sheets to fit your scrubber, let me know. I'll keep the packing and shipping cost the same for everyone, $10 USD, including international. Paypal is easiest, but whatever works. PM me.
 

jrdregs

New Member
Santamonica:
I have already figured out I am going to try the overflow from the main tank to the algae scrubber to the sump. But what I did not thinkof was the "emergency overflow" I love that Idea, i have been asking myself for days ..What happenes if the drain to the algae scrubber gets cloged ar the drain is just not fast enough...you provided the answer. Thanks
I have used a storage bin I got at Walmart and my slot is 1 foot long and the screen is 1 food long.
I heated a pipe and set it on the top of the bin to make the holder for the 1" PVC. You could do this with a bucket too.
Are you interested in any pictures?
Thanks again
Dregs
 

santamonica

Member
I'm going to be posting new example designs soon, so if you have not already posted your pics, do so now and I'll include it for others to see.
 

santamonica

Member

Captevo on the Algae Scrubber site, with a nano setup:





Jarhead80 on the UR site, with a nano setup:



Chris003 on the 3R site:
 

santamonica

Member
AcuarioOceanic on the AR site:

AdolfoRuiz on the AR site:

Calunga on the AR site:

CesarRosh on the AR site:


Emperador on the AR site:

JJavier1976 on the AR site:


Labperck on the AR site:

 
Top