Michael Vick An Eagle???????

[al mc]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3114594
If he lines up in the backfield you treat just like every other team that has two backs. If he lines up in the slot...big deal he still has to catch the ball coming from mcnabb if he even gets open. Receiver, give me a break, he has run routes how well in his career. line him up under center, where does McNabb line up, in the backfield? big deal...He is a back up QB....nothing more....He was signed for chump change. Meaning if he doesn't pan out in preaseason and before the league reviews his eligibility, the eagles will cut him.
The thing you guys need to think about is he is a QB that runs fast. He doesn't run like a runningback. There is a difference. Most of his running yardage has always come after the defense is spread out and the pocket is broken down, meaning the defense is spread more.....meaning he doesn't have to deal with the congestion of a line after having the ball handed to him.
Wide receiver...as I said, routes and catching.....if he was great at this or even good they would have had him doing it when he was younger instead of trying to make him a QB....
Obviously he is Best at QB......otherwise he wouldn't have stayed at QB for so many years. Meaning his stats say he is a mediocre QB...how good of a wideout and runningback could he be....muchless tightend. Think Deion Sanders as a wide receiver.....
I do not disagree with any of this....just passing along the 'talking head radio talk show' spin...

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3114422
Why would the eagles run the wildcat formation. This formation is used when you lack talent at certain positions. If they were going to use the wildcat they could have already done so for the past few seasons with westbrook and McNabb. Seriously.......This is all gimmick and just talk.
You didn't listen to Jon Gruden on MNF last night. In his opinion the Wildcat is here to stay in the NFL. It averaged over 5 yards per play last year. And c'mon, comparing McNabb's mobility to Vick's is hardly a good comparison, Vick is the best running QB ever.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/3114836
You didn't listen to Jon Gruden on MNF last night. In his opinion the Wildcat is here to stay in the NFL. It averaged over 5 yards per play last year. And c'mon, comparing McNabb's mobility to Vick's is hardly a good comparison, Vick is the best running QB ever.
I guarantee you will never see a wildcat ran offense go deep in the playoffs. Why do you think nfl teams don't run the option more often, this is/was huge in college but it doesn't work in the nfl. There is a reason. When your linebackers are as fast as your runningbacks or "running quarterbacks, it doesn't matter.
Look at when he gained yards....scrambling.....the average qb can equal his yards per carry. Cassel last year averaged 16.9 yards per carry......Far better than Vicks average....
You just don't get it.....running quarterback is an oxymoron. Ladanian Tomlinson is probably the best passing Running back in the league today....maybe they should line him up under center more often......
What you don't get about the wildcat formation is it is designed to be ran by a RUNNING BACK. No team that has used it (successfully) has used a running quarterback in this formation. The Raiders tried....didn't work. And it net 7 yards on average for the dolphins. But the raiders it didn't work for. Running Quarterbacks don't have the timing to hit holes in the line that is needed for the formation to work....they also don't have the durability (how often does Vick get hurt scrambling).
Then factor in he fumbles adn throws interception at a higher rate than most of the QBs in the league his value just decreased....Not to mention he is more open to injury (as proven) during his scrambles......if you factor in his sacks his net scramble yards (running) are at 5.1 yards per try.....the average dump off to a back gets 5.0....without the risk of injury to your much needed QB star......Tell me which is smarter.

 

[kjr_trig]

I never said an NFL offense was going to turn into Oregon or Utah and run it full time. What Gruden said, and I agree, is you will see a lot of it in situations this year and in years to come...I love you saying "What you don't get" to me

I could have a massive stroke and still know more about any sport than you Mr. Instigator.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/3115845
I never said an NFL offense was going to turn into Oregon or Utah and run it full time. What Gruden said, and I agree, is you will see a lot of it in situations this year and in years to come...I love you saying "What you don't get" to me

I could have a massive stroke and still know more about any sport than you Mr. Instigator.

This offense was being used in the league long before Miami used it.....just so happens Miami was the only team to have repeated success with it...of course the formation will stay for years....whether it is effective on this level or not has yet to be decided....one team using it successfully one season does not make it a great package for other teams (especially teams with "running QB" instead of a running back). I can list several teams that have used the wildcat formation on the pro level....NOT one time was it done with a QB.....there is a reason for that, can you think of it?
Any other sport, maybe. But not this one. Coming from the guy that throws out comments such as ,"Mcnab lining up as tight end" as semi-serious shows how much true football knowledge you don't have. McNabb will NEVER line up as a tight end...keep thinking so though. I will put money on it....you got a paypal account?
There are only 3 teams Vick would start on in this league at the moment, and all of them passed on him. Facxe it, his running ability does NOT balance out his QB shortfalls, otherwise someone would have picked him up to start for them....Hell, MInnesota just dropped 12 million a year on an old guy....Apparently even Minnesota doesn't think Vick is better than Tavaris Jackson.....

 

[mantisman51]

The fact that the king of second chances, Al Davis, passed on him should be all anyone needs to know. I hope Vick gets to start this year. He doesn't deserve it, but he is now on a pass oriented team and his poor decision-making will show clearly. I don't think running qb's are a bad thing. But having a mid-pack rb try to act like a qb in the pros doesn't get it. Now a qb with mobility, ala Steve Young/Warren Moon, is a great asset. A guy who doesn't know if he should pass or run is a liability. All I know for sure this year is my Chiefs are gonna be lucky to win 6 games. If any deluded Chiefs fans are out there and want to discuss, let's start another thread.

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3116054
This offense was being used in the league long before Miami used it.....just so happens Miami was the only team to have repeated success with it...of course the formation will stay for years....whether it is effective on this level or not has yet to be decided....one team using it successfully one season does not make it a great package for other teams (especially teams with "running QB" instead of a running back). I can list several teams that have used the wildcat formation on the pro level....NOT one time was it done with a QB.....there is a reason for that, can you think of it?
Any other sport, maybe. But not this one. Coming from the guy that throws out comments such as ,"Mcnab lining up as tight end" as semi-serious shows how much true football knowledge you don't have. McNabb will NEVER line up as a tight end...keep thinking so though. I will put money on it....you got a paypal account?
There are only 3 teams Vick would start on in this league at the moment, and all of them passed on him. Facxe it, his running ability does NOT balance out his QB shortfalls, otherwise someone would have picked him up to start for them....Hell, MInnesota just dropped 12 million a year on an old guy....Apparently even Minnesota doesn't think Vick is better than Tavaris Jackson.....
Wow, you actually think the reason all these teams passed on Vick was his football ability.

McNabb is the one whom said "you never know, I may line up at Tight End", watch ESPN, you may learn something.
You keep making all these irrelevant points about the "Wildcat" offense. There are many versions of the Spread/Wildcat/whatever you want to call it. IMO, you will see a lot more backup QB's that are athletes capable of running Wildcat plays, like Senneca Wallace, Vick, Dennis Dixon, and so on. I agree it is unlikely a team will use it as a base offense, the league is too fast.
The NFL is an ever changing game, I'm surprised you can't even see that.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/3116151
Wow, you actually think the reason all these teams passed on Vick was his football ability.

Well lets see, TO got signed right away...and we all know he is/can be a cancer to a team, yet he garnished a huge salary.....chalk it up to football ability.
Favre just got a 12 million dollar contract, had a significant surgery and his arm might be in question.....But chalk it up to playing ability.
Little many years ago signed a huge contract and he killed someone (PR problem potential) chalk it up to Football ability.
Ray lewis charged with murder, remains with the same team and gets paid huge....chalk it up to football ability.
Michael Vick, killed dogs, got out, signed as a back up for 1 million...every team passed on him (including teams that had question marks at quarterback and plenty of cap room) except one.........Chalk it up to football ability.
There is one thing the NFL has proven over and over, no matter what you crime, if you have the ability teams are willing to over look that as long as you can produce to a high level. You will still get paid.

 

[al mc]

T.O., Favre and Lewis never went to trial, never were convicted (or plea bargained) never and went to jail. There are also many people, right or wrong, that empathize more with dogs being tortured and killed than injuring/killing people.
T.O., Farve and to a lesser extent Lewis were not P.R. nightmares. IMHO,
Vick is a PR nightmare, regardless of his ability, or lack of, to be an NFL QB

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/3116243
T.O., Favre and Lewis never went to trial, never were convicted (or plea bargained) never and went to jail. There are also many people, right or wrong, that empathize more with dogs being tortured and killed than injuring/killing people.
T.O., Farve and to a lesser extent Lewis were not P.R. nightmares. IMHO,
Vick is a PR nightmare, regardless of his ability, or lack of, to be an NFL QB
Lewis plea bargained down to a lesser charge...convicted. He also paid large sums of money to families of the deceased....absolving internal guilt...

 

[al mc]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3116280
Lewis plea bargained down to a lesser charge...convicted. He also paid large sums of money to families of the deceased....absolving internal guilt...
Ok..You got me on Lewis(partially)....but I still contend that he (Lewis) was less of a PR problem for his team and the NFL than Vick. There will be PETA led protests at every game (particularly road games).....since Vick is known to have tortured and killed dogs while Lewis bought his way out of his problem
and can always say he was never convicted of a crime or had to do hard jail time.

 

[pontius]

The US has 300 million people and the NFL is FAR AND AWAY the most popular sport in the US. there is no such thing as a "PR liability". if Peyton Manning or Drew Brees were to commit murder tomorrow and be sentenced to 2 years, you better know there would be 32 teams trying to sign them when they were released. the fact that teams weren't lined up for Vick is telling. Jim Mora said that Vick is a coach killer. and he should know, Vick cost his son a coaching job in Atlanta.
Darthtang is right, the wild hog (why it's called the wild "cat" offense is unknown to me) offense is designed for RBs. like at Arkansas, it was designed so that Darren McFadden and Felix Jones could be utilized at the same time. and being an SEC fan, I saw it plenty, and it was nasty with two great RBs (Felix Jones' averaged over 9 yards per carry on the year). but as fast as Vick runs, he is NOT an RB. he will not hit a hole like an RB and he will not take a hit like an RB. a "mobile QB" is a mobile QB, NOT and RB. and certainly not a TE. however, I could see Vick in the slot if he has decent enough hands.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3116070
All I know for sure this year is my Chiefs are gonna be lucky to win 6 games. If any deluded Chiefs fans are out there and want to discuss, let's start another thread.

hey, Tyler Thigpen was the QB at my alma mater, Coastal Carolina University. I think signing Cassell was a dumb and costly mistake. at least Tyler is a little bit mobile to move around when KC's awful line breaks down. Cassell is just going to stand there and get sacked. that Cassell money would've been better spent getting some linemen and a new RB.

 

[al mc]

I agree that if an excellent QB had the exact same baggage as Vick that more NFL teams would go after them. But it is not Vick's average QB status alone that caused teams to stay away from him. It was the combination of his PR problem, age, absence from the game for two years and average QB talents....I believe one has to look at the entire picture....