My clownfish is dying... HELP!

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eipappas

Guest
Ok - I replaced all rock in the tank with pvc and fake rock - just two pieces in there now. Hopefully the fish won't be too scared by the change in decor. If this means anything - none of the rock smelled, not even the live rock. Seemed strange to me cuz every time i've handled live rock outside of the tank i remember how much it has smelled.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
pappas, I know your nervous and upset, but you need to try and pay attention to what I am tell you, or this is hopeless. I didn't say remove the dead rock. LEAVE it in. That dead rock, is not dead, it is alive with bacteria, which is exactly what you need....especially when you removed the substrate after I said not to. The reason the live rock is a problem is because of potential die-off of organics on live rock that will occur as you drop salinity. This is not an issue for the dead coral head. I said leave it in there because it is porous and can harbor a good deal of bacterial colonies.
Yes, use the airstone to mix the water. Yes, use water from your tank [that has the ich] and mix it with fresh water [declorinated or RO/DI water] until you can get it to the salinity that you need. Then change out a few gals. Yes, use the crushed coral from your other tank [2 cups].
Your fish doesn't have ich at the moment. My hope is to deal with the immediate crisis of ammonia and nitrites, stablize the fish, and then begin hypo again. Hoping, all along, that we can beat the clock on the ich problem before it hits the clown. The clown has already been exposed to ich anyway.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
How is fin regeneration doing? You said you had a magnifying glass. Take a good look at the fish, to see how the fins are. Look at the gills and see if they look swollen, red, ragged. Tell me how the fish looks, head to tail.
Can you get a pic?
 
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eipappas

Guest
Oh geez - I really am trying to listen, I just misinterpreted your answer and reference to the "rock"...
The not-live rock, as I've been calling it, had been out of the tank for only about an hour I think so I just put it back in... Do you think this is ok? Maybe the bacteria hadn't died yet.
the saltwater I have been mixing for this tank tonight and this morning has been newly mixed, rather than from the existing tank - Is that a problem?
also, i still have substrate in the tank that had originally come from the large tank. I only removed some last time (when I wasn't supposed to remove any, I know now.) Should I still add a cup from the large tank?
I am so sorry I am taking so much of your time. Thank you again for all your help. I think I do need things spelled out for me, after how easily I've shown I can mess things up. I don't have intuition when it comes to fish, apparently.
 
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eipappas

Guest
I will try to get a pic - I know someone with a digital camera... The fins are looking better. He won't move close enough to me to even see him well with the magnifying glass but they don't look frayed at all. They are regrowing in a healthy way. Although he still has a ways to go he has full swimming capabilities now.
I will look harder at the gills. They don't look ragged but he's still breathing hard so they appear swollen. And he is a red fish so I can't differentiate!
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
So, you've mixed the water this morning? What are you using to mix with?
 
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eipappas

Guest
i mixed water last night to be used this morning - then i mixed more water after you mentioned a couple hours ago that i should have water ready for a water change. I mixed water as I always do for the big tank (although I usually let water sit for a couple days with a powerhead) - I mix tap water (i know i know) with the appropriate amount of sea salt and then add 1/4 of a teaspoon of dechlorinator (stress coat). When I had been adding freshwater to the tank the past couple days, I used distilled water from the grocery store. But I dont' have enough gallons of that to do full water changes that way.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Its too late at night to start disturbing the tank. The fish needs to rest, and so do we.
Lets see how it looks in the morning. If the fish is doing ok, then do a small water change, and prepare for another one when you get home from work. If the fish is not eating, don't feed or try to feed right now. That is only adding pollution to a stressed tank.
The fact that the fish's fins have regenerated is a good sign. I think your problem here is mostly the water quality.
CU tomorrow.
 
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eipappas

Guest
Thanks Beth. I hear you on the rest issue. This is stressful... Good night!
 

aqua blue

Member
Hello again eipappas.
I have not stopped following your situation. I am just not experienced enough to provide much help. You are in good hands with the more knowledgeable people on this board. Hang in there.
Still Rootin For Ya:D
 

j21kickster

Active Member
eipappas,
im sorry to hear about your clown since you first posted this has happened- you are in good hands- i wont say anything to add to the confusion. But i will say, dont do anything you are not sure about- clowns are usually pretty hardy and it could make it- keep on top of testing- also ammo lock detoxifies ammonia- it dosent remove it- so you will still have ammonia in your readings. good luck and listen to these guys- they know their stuff:)
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks guys for the support. This has been pretty stressful for clownfish and for pappas.
Hopefully the clown makes it thru the night. If so, go ahead a do a small water change, using the same specific gravity as the water. I'm not going to recommend a large water change because the water is really not adequately aged. Another water change can be done this evening. Check the water quality: ammonia and nitritie. I'd also like to know what the pH is, but DON'T buffer the water no matter what the pH is.
 
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eipappas

Guest
you guys are the greatest! thank you for all being there for me... This is definitely a trying time!
The fish looked much better this morning so I did a 10% water change. He reacted well and actually started eating again! I tested the pH yesterday, it was around 8.2. I will test again tonight but I won't add any buffer, don't worry! :) I will let you know the other parameters when I get home. Salinity is stable around 1.0185...
Thanks again! I'll give you another update in a few hours.
- Elena
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
After all this, I don't think I even know what size QT you are using. Can you provide the size of the QT as well as all your equiptment. The thread has gotten too long to review all that info.
 
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eipappas

Guest
Thank you Kickster - That's exactly right. It's a ten gallon. Even though it's just a QT, I'm learning quickly why everyone says beginners should start with bigger tanks...
Fish came out to greet me when I came home from work (which sadly was about an hour ago). He was starving and I fed him - He was swimming around chasing down food, which was reassuring. But now he's back to his corner. I did water tests, parameters are as follows (and not so good):
Ammonia: 0.2
Nitrates: 5
Nitrites: 0.1
Salinity: 1.085
pH: 8.2
I would do a water change but I realize I used a lot of the water I had mixed last night in this morning's water change... There is maybe only a half gallon left. I'm mixing more now. What should I do? Do a water change with this unaged new water? Or use the little I have of last night's mixture and do a larger one tomorrow after it's had some time to aerate and stir? (an airhead is in the bucket now.)
The good thing is, I think you've been right all along, Beth. The clown fish doesn't seem sick, he's just suffering from bad water quality and stress. Taking the live rock out seems to have done a lot. He is breathing normally now. And I looked at his gills and they are not ragged. Also, he has stopped shaking his body. I haven't seen him do it in a couple days.
 
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eipappas

Guest
oops - sorry, salinity is 1.0185... would be scary if it really was 1.085
also - equipment is just a whisper power filter - I'd taken the carbon out of it originally since I was using melafix at first. I thought about buying a new filter cartridge with carbon in it when I stopped medicating but thought the bacteria in the existing one would be more valuable than carbon in a new one.
I also have a hood and a light on the tank. I have disconnected the heater but it is a visotherm 50 watt heater.
I currently have one regular rock and one plastic rock with plastic plants in the tank.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Did you replace the carbon filter? I believe I told you to do this awhile back.
When you get home tonight, if the fish is eating and still doing ok, begin the hyposalinity again.
 
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eipappas

Guest
oh - ok, I'll replace the filter with a carbon filter and I'll start the hypo again later tonight.
 
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eipappas

Guest
Beth -
So the fish was doing fantastic for the last three days - no scratching or shaking and water levels were perfect ... So I thought that was the answer and I stopped the hypo around 1.018... Sadly last night and today his old behaviors have started up again with a few slight variations. He is not breathing heavily at all. Swims around like a happy fish and eats and then just returns to the corner and kinda sits/lies down against the back glass for a while - then will come back up when I pass by the tank. He shakes his body a lot, particularly at night when the lights are off - the shaking is really only restricted to when he's in his corner... he never shakes when he's swimming about. I can't tell if he scratches his body against the gravel and that's why he likes to lie down so often. I can't see anything at all on his body - the only possible markings (using a magnifying glass) are some darker patterns on his lower side - not spots, not stripes, just random regions. He has some darker colorings that developed on his face after he was attacked by the puffer, so I assumed they were stress related.
Last tidbit of weird behavior - The fish has taken up the hobby of moving rocks out of his corner of the tank. He hang upside down then literally grabs huge pieces of gravel in his mouth and relocates them. He has dug himself a little hole where he can rest his body against the bare glass in the tank. Fascinating but makes me wonder if he's dealing with any mental damage??
What should I do - Started hypo again last night. Down to 1.015. LFS was out of glass hydrometers and I'd have to order a refractometer...
 
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