My clownfish is dying... HELP!

[eipappas]

Please help me - he was doing fine repairing from the lost fins in the QT but starting he's started to shake himself violently... now he's gasping and is just staying in the lower corner of the QT behind a rock... shaking and barely swimming... won't eat... in the past five minutes he's even letting himself sink to the floor and lies there for a while... I can't watch this... what can i do to help... i just started using a treatment called "kick-ich" about 30 minutes ago but i'm probably too late... what can i do??? please help!!!! crying isn't helping the fish or me...

 

[eipappas]

oh - to answer an obvious question that I forgot to mention... he has no physical signs of ich or velvet - only the maddening shaking like he has something on him and the labored breathing. No salt-crystal like spots though ... slight color fading from what I thought was high ammonia levels for the first couple days in the QT - They are down now, not to zero but close...

 

[beth]

What are your water readings in the QT? Stop using that med. Has the fish been eating?

 

[eipappas]

ammonia is finally down to between 0 and 0.2 but has been around 0.4 - 0.6 for the past couple days... nitrites are near zero, ph is 8.2... the fish had been eating voraciously until a couple hours ago - he ate a bit 30 minutes ago but now he's just lying on the bottom and barely moves his fins...
also, i was panicked and just added ammolock to the acquarium - maybe this was a bad move... and i've only used kick-ich once and that was a couple hours ago when the fish was gasping and shaking... is that why he's suffocating now?

 

[beth]

I believe your problem is with the ammonia and nitrites. You will have to do water changes to get those levels down to zero and keep them there. Perhaps don't feed as much. Vacuum up any uneaten food or other waste that accumulates on the bottom of the tank. Fish, especially sick fish, can not tolerate ammonia or nitrites and from the behavior you describe, that is the problem that your fish is experiencing.

 

[eipappas]

ammonia is finally down to between 0 and 0.2 but has been around 0.4 - 0.6 for the past couple days... nitrites are near zero, ph is 8.2... the fish had been eating voraciously until a couple hours ago - he ate a bit 30 minutes ago but now he's just lying on the bottom and barely moves his fins...
also, i was panicked and just added ammolock to the acquarium - maybe this was a bad move... and i've only used kick-ich once and that was a couple hours ago when the fish was gasping and shaking... is that why he's suffocating now?

 

[aqua blue]

Hello eipapps.
I hope Beth and Terry B. will be able to help you with your sick fish. I am dealing with a sick Sebae Clownfish right now.
I have set up a 10 gallon hospital/quarantine tank. I am currently following advice that Terry B. gave me for my particular situation.
I lost one smaller Sebae Clownfish a couple of weeks back to symptoms of scratching, gasping and not eating. Now my larger Sebae Clownfish started showing the same symptoms.
I am in the process of gradually dropping the salinity for hypo. And I have started the first of a series of three formalin dips.
My Sebae Clownfish is eating again as of today(Friday 10/4). The scratching has stopped and the gasping is greatly reduced already.
This is giving my higher hopes of getting it back to good health. I am new to this hobby but I am continuously realizing the value of the knowledge that these generous people share with us.
Listen to what they say and give them as much info. as you can.
GOOD LUCK

 

[eipappas]

Thank you Aqua Blue - Did your clownfish show any physical spots or any other discoloration? What did you diagnose him with when you decided to use formalin dips?
Beth or Terry -
Some additional info that just became apparent last night: the puffer (the only inhabitant now of the big tank) looks like he has ich. He's been scratching himself against rocks for a few days now but I hadn't been able to see anything irregular on him. (I wrote a message a while ago thinking it was velvet but I believe Beth was right and it wasn't.) Now i can see 6 or 7 distinct white clumps on him. Like salt crystals but not coating his entire body - they are in select areas (1 on his underbelly, 4 on one side, 1 on the other side, and 1 on his bottom fin).
The water I've been using to do water changes in the QT has come from this tank from the beginning. If the puffer does have ich, what does that mean about what's wrong with my clownfish?
Also, to be a little more detailed on the clown's behavior - apparently he's been lying on the floor to nurse one of his sides - He does come up to eat, which is great! but he will return down to the bottom where he holds one side of his body (the same side each time) against the glass side. I still can't see anything though...
I am doing an ammonia test and it is between 0.25 and 0.5... But I don't know where to do water changes from at this point. I've used ammolock and have been also trying to speed up the cycle with bactervital... I know I know... Too many chemicals - I just keep getting conflicting opinions so in my panic I've done them all. Also, why are you frowning on Kick-Ich, Beth? Because you don't think he has ic or because you don't like that treatment for ich?

 

[beth]

Kick ick is not an effective treatment of ich. Stop using it. Is your main tank FO or does it have live rock and inverts?
I can't emphasize enough the need to get that ammonia/nitrite down in the QT. The amts you quote can be lethal. However, as you surmised, ich is contagious and if the puffer has it, then the QT has also been contamonated. Even so, you can use hyposalinity, at least in the QT, to treat for ich. The treatment will even be somewhat beneficial for a stressed fish such as your clown.

 

[eipappas]

It has live rock which is why the LFS recommended kick-ich to me... can hyposalinity stress out a fish who is not sick and is just suffering from high ammonia? i should be making all future water changes in the QT using newly mixed water now i'm guessing... What else can I do to get the ammonia down? Should I not have used substrate in the QT? Is it just gathering food? I've done three water changes over the past three days and each time i try to vacuum but the water drains so fast in such a little tank i can't really get to all parts of the gravel.

 

[eipappas]

Beth - Please tell me what to do - I will start over with the QT, as in take out substrate and live rock and gradually reduce to hyposalinity if that is what you recommend... I'm totally in the dark here - LFS says one thing, and different people here say others... I was initially adviced to set my QT up with LR and substrate...

 

[beth]

Don't take out the substrate, just take out the LR. Are there any fake decorations in there? Like PVC or fake rocks? If LR is the only thing in the QT, then replace it with some PVC or fake rocks that they probably sell as the LFS. The fish will need some comfort zones to replace the LR.
Actually, hyposalinity will probably be a relief for your fish. When fish are stressed they have difficulty adjusting internal concentrations of sodium, chloride, etc.; lowering the salinity makes concentrations of these minerals fround in sea water closer to that of the fish"s internal fluids and reduces the fish"s efforts to maintain the correct concentrations. Thus reducing stress.
Additionally, during the process of lowering salinity, you will be making frequent change outs of water, thus removing water polluted with ammonia with water that is not polluted.
You should use DI or RO water for the change out water. The process should take about 48 hrs. What type of salinity measurement do you use? What filter do you have on your QT?

 

[eipappas]

I have a whisper power filter - it's a hang on the tank filter... I took the carbon out before i started medicating with melafix...
Ok, I will have to go buy some PVC in place of the LR... What is the logic behind taking out the live rock in the first place? As a side comment (I dont know if you'd be supportive of this though) my initial thoughts were if I could get established bacterial communities in this tank fairly quickly then I could keep my clownfish in it for a longer amount of time, and turn it from a QT to a permanent 10 gallon... I cant exactly think about putting him back in the big tank with the puffer after what happened...
Questions:
Does ammolock mess up my ammonia test readings?
Do you recommend treating the puffer in the established tank (with LR) with Greenex instead of Kick-ich? -- Or should I keep waiting to see if it gets worse?... Right now it's just a few barely noticeable white clumps...

 

[eipappas]

Oh and I currently have one "not-live" rock... its just a regular rock that I am using in the tank - its that what you mean? can I use that? what will keep the pH up?

 

[aqua blue]

Hello eipapps.
No my clowfish did not show any spots or color changes. I just gave the symptoms in my thread and Terry B. made a suggestion on treatment.
Terry B. said that wild caught clownfish ofter have brooklynella which is a very contagious disease that can kill in a few days.
I am new to this so I chose to follow his advice. So far so good.
The fish is still eating today and seems to be breathing easier. It does scratch every now and then but not nearly as ofter as before.
I am also having to monitor HT water conditions very closely. As I gradually change out water from, salt to fresh, I use a piece of airline tubing attached to a cleaning rod to siphon trash and uneaten food off floor of tank. I also siphon HT water out for the needed formalins dips. These water changes are helping keep my levels in check until this HT completly cycles and settles out.
I did not have enough time to properly cycle the HT this time but I will keep it up from now on to have ready as needed.
Once I reach the needed hypo level I plan on siphoning water though a coffe filter and then back into tank to maintain correct levels while removing trash and waste.
This may not be the best way but it is working for me right now.
Again GOOD LUCK with your fish.

 

[eipappas]

Thank you Aqua Blue - Good advice.
I have been wondering how I can vacuum food and waste without having to do a water change every few hours but the coffee filter idea sounds like that could solve that problem... Have you tried it yet? Did someone here suggest that method? I don't know what you're refering to by the cleaning rod attached to airline tubing... I have a rather large device to siphon water that hooks up to my sink... It's not very precise and hard to make sure I get out all pieces of food. I would appreciate any help on learning how to do this better.
I hesitate to move my fish at the moment (I assume that's what you mean by formalin dips)... he's extremely stressed (has lost some color in his face) but overall seems to be much better today - shaking his body much much less and swimming all over the tank instead of lying on the floor.
I too regret not having a QT running full time. Live and learn.

 

[eipappas]

In addition to the other hundred questions I've asked... Here's one more - Can I still have effective hyposalinity if I only drop to 1.016-1.017? Do I have to go all the way down to 1.009? Also, I don't have a refractometer - Only a plastic dip in the tank hydrometer

 

[beth]

LOL All of these problems and questions are getting me confused.
Right now, is the only thing that your clownfish is suffering from is having been attacked by the puffer? Also, he has been exposed to ich?
Don't use any of those medications you mentioned. You don't have a cycled hospital tank, so you will just have to be constantly changing the water. As for cleaning the bottom, you can get a small airline tube and establish a siphon, then suck up the uneaten food off the bottom of the tank. Go ahead and add the carbon filter back on. Begin hyposalinity, no meds in water.
For hyposalinity to be effective you need to get the specific gravity down to 1.009. What type of salinity measurement devise do you use?

 

[eipappas]

That's right. If the puffer does have ick then the clownfish has been exposed to it but he's only (supposedly) suffering from being attacked... The lying down on the side of the tank thing we haven't established the reason for yet, although you are probably right about the ammonia.
I use a plastic hydrometer... It has a little arm that swings up and down when you dip it in water. Do I have to go as low as 1.009? Seems drastic.
Question about the QT - can I keep it with the LR and not do water changes to get it to cycle? Or will that take too long - It has only water from the established tank... Reason for this is I don't know what I will do with the clown after the QT... He can't go back in with the puffer (at least I don't think he can).
Last question: what do I do about the potential ick of the puffer??? Worried about that too... He'll have to be treated in the main tank.

 

[eipappas]

also - i already have meds in the water... added kick-ich yesterday before you warned me not to