nysharkbait
Member
Sorry. $100. Just the tank.
New guy with no clue
- Thread starter nysharkbait
- Start date
bencc27
New Member
I picked up a 125 off c-list and after I got it home and in the light I noticed it had lots of scratches on it. Ended up trading it in at the lfs and got a new one. I figured if Im going to put this much time and money into everything that goes into these tanks I wanted to tank itself to be new. 100 is really cheap though. If its in good shape just make sure to really look it over. You dont want to be looking through scratched glass at your reef.
twood
Member
Be careful with used tanks. If the previous owner ever used copper based medication (which is common in many ich medications), the tank may not be usable for invertebrates like corals and anemones. Copper can get into the silicon seals and leach back out into the water. Look for a blueish tint to the silicon seals. Some copper medications will turn the silicon a blueish color.
Also, besides scratches, calcium deposits in the glass can be a problem. I bought a used tank off Craig's and could not get the calcium deposits out of the glass. I tried scraping it with a razor blade, cleaning it with CLR, and soaking it in vinegar over night. Nothing would remove it.
Also, besides scratches, calcium deposits in the glass can be a problem. I bought a used tank off Craig's and could not get the calcium deposits out of the glass. I tried scraping it with a razor blade, cleaning it with CLR, and soaking it in vinegar over night. Nothing would remove it.
nysharkbait
Member
So let me ask a few questions I need answers to.
I either need a used salt tank or a new tank as opposed to a used freshwater tank?
Can I farm pods in order to keep my two mandarines on my list?
Are any angels acceptable with my list?
I either need a used salt tank or a new tank as opposed to a used freshwater tank?
Can I farm pods in order to keep my two mandarines on my list?
Are any angels acceptable with my list?
twood
Member
If you are seriously interested in keeping a mandarin, you may want to consider training it to eat frozen mysis shrimp.
The following is taken from this article on breeding mandarins by Matthew L. Wittenrich:
http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer....Green_Mandarin
Originally Posted by Matthew L. Wittenrich
Secrets of Mandarin Feeding
In order for mandarins to thrive in a captive environment, they must be supplied with sufficient high-protein foods.
There are two commonly approached methods and one certainly produces better long term results. It has long been said that in order for mandarins to survive, a large, mature, rock-filled aquarium was needed. The idea being that harpacticoid copepod populations present on a large surface area of live rock would support the near-constant foraging behavior of this fish.
While this method can work to support the dietary demands of a mandarin, it is far too prone to failure in closed systems. (Aquarists often over-estimate the productivity of their reef systems or stock species that compete for the limited crops of microfauna.)
Refugiums help support copepod populations, but all too often mandarins slowly suffer from starvation in such settings. A much more realistic and successful approach involves weaning mandarins off a strictly live food diet and teaching them to accept frozen foods, such as mysis shrimp, that are readily available.
The best method in my opinion was developed by Matt Pedersen of MOFIB (see the links below). The idea is quite simple. Isolate new mandarins in suspended breeder baskets (or small quarantine tanks) and get them feeding on enriched live brine shrimp. Then, introduce frozen brine shrimp and mysis shrimp. After the fish begin sampling the frozen fare the live diet is slowly replaced. Once they are eating frozen fare with vigor they are released into the display tank where their "training" pays off.
Link to Matt Pedersen's post on MOFIB:
http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/v...p?f=176&t=1217
The following is taken from this article on breeding mandarins by Matthew L. Wittenrich:
http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer....Green_Mandarin
Originally Posted by Matthew L. Wittenrich
Secrets of Mandarin Feeding
In order for mandarins to thrive in a captive environment, they must be supplied with sufficient high-protein foods.
There are two commonly approached methods and one certainly produces better long term results. It has long been said that in order for mandarins to survive, a large, mature, rock-filled aquarium was needed. The idea being that harpacticoid copepod populations present on a large surface area of live rock would support the near-constant foraging behavior of this fish.
While this method can work to support the dietary demands of a mandarin, it is far too prone to failure in closed systems. (Aquarists often over-estimate the productivity of their reef systems or stock species that compete for the limited crops of microfauna.)
Refugiums help support copepod populations, but all too often mandarins slowly suffer from starvation in such settings. A much more realistic and successful approach involves weaning mandarins off a strictly live food diet and teaching them to accept frozen foods, such as mysis shrimp, that are readily available.
The best method in my opinion was developed by Matt Pedersen of MOFIB (see the links below). The idea is quite simple. Isolate new mandarins in suspended breeder baskets (or small quarantine tanks) and get them feeding on enriched live brine shrimp. Then, introduce frozen brine shrimp and mysis shrimp. After the fish begin sampling the frozen fare the live diet is slowly replaced. Once they are eating frozen fare with vigor they are released into the display tank where their "training" pays off.
Link to Matt Pedersen's post on MOFIB:
http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/v...p?f=176&t=1217
twood
Member
Originally Posted by NySharkBait
http:///forum/post/3173727
So let me ask a few questions I need answers to.
I either need a used salt tank or a new tank as opposed to a used freshwater tank?
Can I farm pods in order to keep my two mandarines on my list?
Are any angels acceptable with my list?
From my understanding (and I could be wrong), there is nothing wrong with using a used freshwater tank as long as you are confident it has never had ich medication or some other copper based medication put in it. Of course this holds true with used saltwater tanks too. However, you can usually have more confidence in a used reef tank as it most likely has never had copper in it. Assuming it comes from someone who knows what they are doing.
As for farming pods, refugiums are ideal for doing this. I don't know a lot about it, but from what I have read live rock rubble and chaetomorpha macro algae are recommended for use in a refugium that is growing copepods. The rubble and chaeto give the copepods lots of surface area to breed on.
http:///forum/post/3173727
So let me ask a few questions I need answers to.
I either need a used salt tank or a new tank as opposed to a used freshwater tank?
Can I farm pods in order to keep my two mandarines on my list?
Are any angels acceptable with my list?
From my understanding (and I could be wrong), there is nothing wrong with using a used freshwater tank as long as you are confident it has never had ich medication or some other copper based medication put in it. Of course this holds true with used saltwater tanks too. However, you can usually have more confidence in a used reef tank as it most likely has never had copper in it. Assuming it comes from someone who knows what they are doing.
As for farming pods, refugiums are ideal for doing this. I don't know a lot about it, but from what I have read live rock rubble and chaetomorpha macro algae are recommended for use in a refugium that is growing copepods. The rubble and chaeto give the copepods lots of surface area to breed on.
nysharkbait
Member
Ok. So I found LFS. It's 87 miles away, an hour and a half drive. So, not so local. But anywho. They carry Marineland 125 gallon tanks, 72'' x 18'' x 22'' with dual corner overflows for $540. Yay or nay or about right in price?
They seem very knowledgable and willing to work with me through the process. Just making sure I ain't being dupped.
They seem very knowledgable and willing to work with me through the process. Just making sure I ain't being dupped.
nysharkbait
Member
Anybody?
btldreef
Moderator
MarineLand's are decent. My LFS likes them and they've never steered me wrong, so
Is the price of $560 for just the tank? Online they go for $3000-$4000 depending on the lighting they with come and stand and canopy, plus $600-1000S&H.
You're better off with a new tank.
That being said, my last tank and my current are both used tanks. My 155 was previously a freshwater setup. I hosed it out, scrubbed with water/vinegar mixture, hosed again, and then scrubbed twice with saltwater. I've had no issues.
If you buy a used tank, make the seller fill it with water. If they won't, make them drop the price. A tank that leaks can be fixed, but shouldn't cost as much money (obviously).
Farming pods is possible, quite easy. Just pick up a 10G tank, a very gentle pump, some live rock rubble and live sand. I'm pretty sure this site sells pods, dump them in, feed them, wait a couple weeks and you'll be good.
I personally have found it much easier to just spot feed and seed the tank by adding copepods weekly. So far, so good. My mandarin never took to the frozen food training and most that do, don't live as long from what I've seen. Most LFS's will sell Tigger Pods, a bottle of those every other week while the mandarin is young, and every week when they're older and you're good.
Forget about the Catalina Goby if you want a reef tank. They require cooler tanks than most fish/corals and really need their own special tank for this reason.
DO NOT PUT A SIXLINE AND A MANDARIN TOGETHER. I had a sixline kill a mandarin, I just read a thread on here today of a guy who's sixline beat up a mandarin and shredded its fins, etc. Sixlines cause chaos, they're just not worth it and they're impossible to catch once they are introduced to your tank. Save yourself the headache, there are much nicer wrasses.
Your fish list looks good other than that. Keep in mind that you can only have one blenny in your tank and one mandarin.
In a 125 Reef tank with fish here's what I'd do:
1 Mandarin (after at least 6 months of the tank up and running and at least 100lbs of rock with seeding the tank)
2 Clownfish (you really can have any two you want. Maroons are meaner)
1 Lawnmower Blenny - wait until your tank is 2-3 months old and you may have to supplement it's diet with algae sheets if your tank is too clean
1 Shrimp Goby (have you decided what type you like?) I personally love the yellow watchman
1 Royal Gramma
1 Tang of some sort (Sailfin or Kole or Yellow or Hippo)
2-3 Cardinals or Lyretail Anthias Females
Clean up crew:
5-15 Nassarius snails
5-10 Astrea snails
5-10 Trochus snails
10 Cerith snails
10 hermits (don't get hung up on what type they are, they'll die eventually, or kill each other for their shells so don't spend a ton of money on "pretty" ones)
2 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
3-4 Peppermint Shrimp
2-3 Emerald Crabs
40 Gallon Sump - I don't run a refugium, but you absolutely can and should if you don't want to seed your tank.
I highly recommend a ASM G3 Protein Skimmer.
What lighting comes stock with the tank at your LFS?
You're better off with a new tank.
That being said, my last tank and my current are both used tanks. My 155 was previously a freshwater setup. I hosed it out, scrubbed with water/vinegar mixture, hosed again, and then scrubbed twice with saltwater. I've had no issues.
If you buy a used tank, make the seller fill it with water. If they won't, make them drop the price. A tank that leaks can be fixed, but shouldn't cost as much money (obviously).
Farming pods is possible, quite easy. Just pick up a 10G tank, a very gentle pump, some live rock rubble and live sand. I'm pretty sure this site sells pods, dump them in, feed them, wait a couple weeks and you'll be good.
I personally have found it much easier to just spot feed and seed the tank by adding copepods weekly. So far, so good. My mandarin never took to the frozen food training and most that do, don't live as long from what I've seen. Most LFS's will sell Tigger Pods, a bottle of those every other week while the mandarin is young, and every week when they're older and you're good.
Forget about the Catalina Goby if you want a reef tank. They require cooler tanks than most fish/corals and really need their own special tank for this reason.
DO NOT PUT A SIXLINE AND A MANDARIN TOGETHER. I had a sixline kill a mandarin, I just read a thread on here today of a guy who's sixline beat up a mandarin and shredded its fins, etc. Sixlines cause chaos, they're just not worth it and they're impossible to catch once they are introduced to your tank. Save yourself the headache, there are much nicer wrasses.
Your fish list looks good other than that. Keep in mind that you can only have one blenny in your tank and one mandarin.
In a 125 Reef tank with fish here's what I'd do:
1 Mandarin (after at least 6 months of the tank up and running and at least 100lbs of rock with seeding the tank)
2 Clownfish (you really can have any two you want. Maroons are meaner)
1 Lawnmower Blenny - wait until your tank is 2-3 months old and you may have to supplement it's diet with algae sheets if your tank is too clean
1 Shrimp Goby (have you decided what type you like?) I personally love the yellow watchman
1 Royal Gramma
1 Tang of some sort (Sailfin or Kole or Yellow or Hippo)
2-3 Cardinals or Lyretail Anthias Females
Clean up crew:
5-15 Nassarius snails
5-10 Astrea snails
5-10 Trochus snails
10 Cerith snails
10 hermits (don't get hung up on what type they are, they'll die eventually, or kill each other for their shells so don't spend a ton of money on "pretty" ones)
2 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
3-4 Peppermint Shrimp
2-3 Emerald Crabs
40 Gallon Sump - I don't run a refugium, but you absolutely can and should if you don't want to seed your tank.
I highly recommend a ASM G3 Protein Skimmer.
What lighting comes stock with the tank at your LFS?
nysharkbait
Member
BTLD, you're an awesome guide. I appreciate you taking the time.
The tank is tank only. Nothing else. I'm pretty handy so I'm going to build my own stand and top.
I've thought about it, and as much as I love the two mandarines, since it's my first build, I'm not going to kill myself over the pod issue. I'll just get one. Maybe do a biocube down the road with the other in it. I'm with you, the watchman goby's rock. Remind me of a little dog that thinks its a rottweiler. I haven't found a cardinal fish that I like yet. I don't know why...they just seem bland. Do they have a benifit from adding them? What about a flame angel? Aren't they fairly calm and good in a community reef?
Why the different snails? Do they have different benifits?
The tank is tank only. Nothing else. I'm pretty handy so I'm going to build my own stand and top.
I've thought about it, and as much as I love the two mandarines, since it's my first build, I'm not going to kill myself over the pod issue. I'll just get one. Maybe do a biocube down the road with the other in it. I'm with you, the watchman goby's rock. Remind me of a little dog that thinks its a rottweiler. I haven't found a cardinal fish that I like yet. I don't know why...they just seem bland. Do they have a benifit from adding them? What about a flame angel? Aren't they fairly calm and good in a community reef?
Why the different snails? Do they have different benifits?
btldreef
Moderator
Lots of responses in red throughout your quote
Originally Posted by NySharkBait
http:///forum/post/3174059
BTLD, you're an awesome guide. I appreciate you taking the time. No prob. I wish more people would do research like you are!
The tank is tank only. Nothing else. I'm pretty handy so I'm going to build my own stand and top. You are so much better off this way. Look on Craigslist for someone selling a used 30-50G, even if it's scratched to use for your own sump/refugium.
I've thought about it, and as much as I love the two mandarines, since it's my first build, I'm not going to kill myself over the pod issue. I'll just get one. Maybe do a biocube down the road with the other in it. Sounds good.Yeah, two is just a PITA!I'm with you, the watchman goby's rock. Remind me of a little dog that thinks its a rottweiler. hahaha, yes and you can put two in yoru tank, I have two in my 155, just add them at the same time. I haven't found a cardinal fish that I like yet. I don't know why...they just seem bland. Do they have a benifit from adding them? No benefit, just a peaceful, easy to care for fish. Personally, I'm not a fan eitherWhat about a flame angel? Aren't they fairly calm and good in a community reef? I actually forgot to write in a dwarf angel in my list, so yes, add that. No matter which one you go with, add it last if at all possible (unless you add a Tang last, then add them second to last or last). My Coral Beauty thought she ruled the roost and would beat up new additions to my tank until I added something bigger than her
Why the different snails? Do they have different benifits? Yes. Nassarius snails will eat left over fish food. They also live under the sand most of the time and will sift the sand for you. Astreas and Trochus snails will eat algae. They don't get big like the Turbos do. I don't recommned Turbo snails in reefs unless you have a really bad algae issue. They're big and cumbersome and will knock over corals. I banished all of my turbos to the sump because they wanted to be ******** decorators. Ceriths will eat detritus, I will not have a tank without cerith snails in it. They also crawl across sand, keeping it clean. People say they burrow in sand, I've never seen them do this in any of my tanks. You could also take a look at bumblebee snails, they stay small but are just cool looking and will also eat algae.
Keep in mind that hermits will always look for bigger shells. You either have to provide shells for them, or they'll kill your snails to steal the shell. I've tried providing shells, my hermits seem to like killing the snails. I've given up, every 6 months or so, I just bite the bullet, spend $10 and replace some snails. The other reason I recommended Trochus snails is for this reason. They are the easiest to breed in your tank and then over time, you won't have to replace the snails that your hermits kill, lol. I have TONS of very tiny babies in my tank right now.
Originally Posted by NySharkBait
http:///forum/post/3174059
BTLD, you're an awesome guide. I appreciate you taking the time. No prob. I wish more people would do research like you are!
The tank is tank only. Nothing else. I'm pretty handy so I'm going to build my own stand and top. You are so much better off this way. Look on Craigslist for someone selling a used 30-50G, even if it's scratched to use for your own sump/refugium.
I've thought about it, and as much as I love the two mandarines, since it's my first build, I'm not going to kill myself over the pod issue. I'll just get one. Maybe do a biocube down the road with the other in it. Sounds good.Yeah, two is just a PITA!I'm with you, the watchman goby's rock. Remind me of a little dog that thinks its a rottweiler. hahaha, yes and you can put two in yoru tank, I have two in my 155, just add them at the same time. I haven't found a cardinal fish that I like yet. I don't know why...they just seem bland. Do they have a benifit from adding them? No benefit, just a peaceful, easy to care for fish. Personally, I'm not a fan eitherWhat about a flame angel? Aren't they fairly calm and good in a community reef? I actually forgot to write in a dwarf angel in my list, so yes, add that. No matter which one you go with, add it last if at all possible (unless you add a Tang last, then add them second to last or last). My Coral Beauty thought she ruled the roost and would beat up new additions to my tank until I added something bigger than her
Why the different snails? Do they have different benifits? Yes. Nassarius snails will eat left over fish food. They also live under the sand most of the time and will sift the sand for you. Astreas and Trochus snails will eat algae. They don't get big like the Turbos do. I don't recommned Turbo snails in reefs unless you have a really bad algae issue. They're big and cumbersome and will knock over corals. I banished all of my turbos to the sump because they wanted to be ******** decorators. Ceriths will eat detritus, I will not have a tank without cerith snails in it. They also crawl across sand, keeping it clean. People say they burrow in sand, I've never seen them do this in any of my tanks. You could also take a look at bumblebee snails, they stay small but are just cool looking and will also eat algae.
Keep in mind that hermits will always look for bigger shells. You either have to provide shells for them, or they'll kill your snails to steal the shell. I've tried providing shells, my hermits seem to like killing the snails. I've given up, every 6 months or so, I just bite the bullet, spend $10 and replace some snails. The other reason I recommended Trochus snails is for this reason. They are the easiest to breed in your tank and then over time, you won't have to replace the snails that your hermits kill, lol. I have TONS of very tiny babies in my tank right now.
nysharkbait
Member
What angels are dwarfs?
btldreef
Moderator
Originally Posted by NySharkBait
http:///forum/post/3174075
What angels are dwarfs?
Quite a few, (any that are listed as pygmies), here's what I can remember off the top of my head:
Coral Beauty
Rock Beauty
Rusty
Lemonpeel
Multicolor
Flame Angel
Cherub, aka Pygmy
Flameback
Red Stripe
Bluefin
Fishers
Potters
Yellow, aka Heraldi
basically any angelfish that is of the "Centropyge" group. For example the scientific name of the Flame Angel is Centropyge loriculus.
http:///forum/post/3174075
What angels are dwarfs?
Quite a few, (any that are listed as pygmies), here's what I can remember off the top of my head:
Coral Beauty
Rock Beauty
Rusty
Lemonpeel
Multicolor
Flame Angel
Cherub, aka Pygmy
Flameback
Red Stripe
Bluefin
Fishers
Potters
Yellow, aka Heraldi
basically any angelfish that is of the "Centropyge" group. For example the scientific name of the Flame Angel is Centropyge loriculus.
nysharkbait
Member
You have AIM or MSN or YIM?
btldreef
Moderator
Originally Posted by NySharkBait
http:///forum/post/3174093
You have AIM or MSN or YIM?
AIM bboybustr, it's my husband's SN, but i'm usually the one on the computer. He's just as into the reef thing as me so whoever is on the computer can answer you. I'm TommieLynn, he's Mark (aka Bustr)
http:///forum/post/3174093
You have AIM or MSN or YIM?
AIM bboybustr, it's my husband's SN, but i'm usually the one on the computer. He's just as into the reef thing as me so whoever is on the computer can answer you. I'm TommieLynn, he's Mark (aka Bustr)
nysharkbait
Member
Here's my list so far...
1 Green Mandarine
2 False Clowns
1 Flame Angel
1 Yellow Watchman
1 Royal Gramma
1 Midas Blenny
1 McCoskers Flasher Wrasse
Would a foxface be compatable with these fish? It's 125g and 6' long.
1 Green Mandarine
2 False Clowns
1 Flame Angel
1 Yellow Watchman
1 Royal Gramma
1 Midas Blenny
1 McCoskers Flasher Wrasse
Would a foxface be compatable with these fish? It's 125g and 6' long.
btldreef
Moderator
Originally Posted by NySharkBait
http:///forum/post/3175337
Here's my list so far...
1 Green Mandarine
2 False Clowns
1 Flame Angel
1 Yellow Watchman
1 Royal Gramma
1 Midas Blenny
1 McCoskers Flasher Wrasse
Would a foxface be compatable with these fish? It's 125g and 6' long.
List looks good. Foxface would do well with those fish. Just know upfront that you can't touch their spines (dorsal fins) because they contain venom. What happened to tangs?
http:///forum/post/3175337
Here's my list so far...
1 Green Mandarine
2 False Clowns
1 Flame Angel
1 Yellow Watchman
1 Royal Gramma
1 Midas Blenny
1 McCoskers Flasher Wrasse
Would a foxface be compatable with these fish? It's 125g and 6' long.
List looks good. Foxface would do well with those fish. Just know upfront that you can't touch their spines (dorsal fins) because they contain venom. What happened to tangs?
nysharkbait
Member
I have an American Poon Tang already, figured I'd try something different.
btldreef
Moderator
Originally Posted by NySharkBait
http:///forum/post/3175402
I have an American Poon Tang already, figured I'd try something different.
I'm just going to leave that one be
http:///forum/post/3175402
I have an American Poon Tang already, figured I'd try something different.
I'm just going to leave that one be
nysharkbait
Member
So with the fox, it won't be too much for the tank?