New mccain ad

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2759328
I've posted Obama's quote where he said teaching "K" was the "right thing to do". Hard to say he didn't know...
Sorry if you do not differentiate between religious history and sermons. I, as well as the Texas Bill, do. Should we quit teaching WW2 history for fear children will become Nazis?
Whether you agree or not, religion has played a roll throughout history and certainly was critical in the foundation of our Nation.
Man, you just don't give up on this. So Obama feels it's the right thing to do, and apparently you don't. OK. Tell anyone you know in the State of Illinois that they should keep their kids out of this class if you want. The State is simply offering a program to schools and parents that they feel is beneficial due to the drastic changes in how teens, and yes, even small children as young as kindergartens view s-e-x. I've seen news reports of 6 and 7 year olds kids getting caught showing their 'private parts' to each other. Girls as young as 11 pregnant. But of course in your eyes that's not the government's job to teach these kids the ramifications of their actions regarding these topics. Pretty sad if you ask me. Your precious Palin obviously feels this way. She has the luxury of becoming a grandmother because of it.

As far as the Texas bill? You apparently don't get what I'm conveying there either. Sure the bill says it restricts the classes to religious history. But are their safeguards being put into place to insure the individuals teaching this cirriculum are going to stick to these mandates? That's my concern. You want to teach how the various religions originated, how they've affected this world in regards to the economy, lifestyles, politics, etc.? Hey I have no problem with that. It's the teachers who are the religious fanatics that have their hidden agendas I don't want in these classrooms. I don't want them pulling out their bibles, reciting scripture, telling the kids they're going to hades if they don't follow the principles of Jesus. Spending all their time discrediting the Theory Of Evolution, and teaching Creationism. That's the problem I have with them passing this bill. Insure me this won't happen, and you can teach your religious history all day.

 

[1journeyman]

Obama- I'm just posting the facts. You and others keep promoting theories like he didn't know to excuse it.
Religious History- I'll make a deal with ya; You assure me every teacher in Texas is teaching Science, Government and History from a purely objective standpoint with no secular agenda and I'll assure you that no teacher will have a religious agenda. Deal?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2759413
Man, you just don't give up on this. So Obama feels it's the right thing to do, and apparently you don't. OK. Tell anyone you know in the State of Illinois that they should keep their kids out of this class if you want. The State is simply offering a program to schools and parents that they feel is beneficial due to the drastic changes in how teens, and yes, even small children as young as kindergartens view s-e-x. I've seen news reports of 6 and 7 year olds kids getting caught showing their 'private parts' to each other. Girls as young as 11 pregnant. But of course in your eyes that's not the government's job to teach these kids the ramifications of their actions regarding these topics. Pretty sad if you ask me. Your precious Palin obviously feels this way. She has the luxury of becoming a grandmother because of it.

As far as the Texas bill? You apparently don't get what I'm conveying there either. Sure the bill says it restricts the classes to religious history. But are their safeguards being put into place to insure the individuals teaching this cirriculum are going to stick to these mandates? That's my concern. You want to teach how the various religions originated, how they've affected this world in regards to the economy, lifestyles, politics, etc.? Hey I have no problem with that. It's the teachers who are the religious fanatics that have their hidden agendas I don't want in these classrooms. I don't want them pulling out their bibles, reciting scripture, telling the kids they're going to hades if they don't follow the principles of Jesus. Spending all their time discrediting the Theory Of Evolution, and teaching Creationism. That's the problem I have with them passing this bill. Insure me this won't happen, and you can teach your religious history all day.
My view is that Creationism is a acceptable theory... and can be taught... I think it should be up to the School Bd. and teaching evolution only is not right. You can leave the dynamics of religion out of it... but again it should be an option.
2nd- in regards to Obama and this bill.... the expansion of the bill to include K-12... in particular to early education was/is to teach children about safeguards and prevention against abuse and pedophiles. I can't believe McCain and his supporters are attempting to skew the facts and attack Obama on this issue... if you honestly believe what is being said... I can see why you believe everything that comes out of the Bush Admin..
Latest news is that we are reniging on an agreement that was the main reason for the drop in violence in Iraq.. if this contiunes to develop you will see the Surge was a failure

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2759439
...
2nd- in regards to Obama and this bill.... the expansion of the bill to include K-12... in particular to early education was/is to teach children about safeguards and prevention against abuse and pedophiles. ...
Rylan, please show me the evidence of this:
*I've read the Bill
*I've read the curriculum
You are absolutely wrong. That is NOT correct.
Instead of repeating the talking points, how about posting some proof from the actual curriculum or legislation???

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2759416
Religious History- I'll make a deal with ya; You assure me every teacher in Texas is teaching Science, Government and History from a purely objective standpoint with no secular agenda and I'll assure you that no teacher will have a religious agenda. Deal?
I think that journeyman has spotted the problem. We can have all the curricula we want, but ultimately it is the teacher who is at the point of the

[hr]
. From experience, I can guarantee that the assurance journey wants is impossible to give, nor can anyone guarantee absence of atheistic , communist or far right etc. agendas. It is the never ending job of supervisors in the schools to try to insure that the most egregious agendas are not put forth, but teachers are quick to (incorrectly) claim "academic freedom".

 

[reefraff]

Gads
Are any political ads 100% accurate? Maybe a few. Read the offending line in this ad
"Obama's one achievement? Legislation to teach comprehensive S E X education to kindergartners". That statement is actually 100% accurate. I had thought the ads said PASSED legislation which would have been inaccurate. Obama was the chairman of the committee that created the legislation and he voted for it in committee.
Now compare that with Obama's campaign and the Democrats saying McCain wanted a hundred year war in Iraq or that Onama would cut taxes for 95% of Americans. The McCain ad stands as a shining example of truth in advertising compared to those.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2759446
I think that journeyman has spotted the problem. We can have all the curricula we want, but ultimately it is the teacher who is at the point of the

[hr]
. From experience, I can guarantee that the assurance journey wants is impossible to give, nor can anyone guarantee absence of atheistic , communist or far right etc. agendas. It is the never ending job of supervisors in the schools to try to insure that the most egregious agendas are not put forth, but teachers are quick to (incorrectly) claim "academic freedom".
We never had a lot of problems with teachers pushing agenda's when our son was in school. He was in one of the two high schools in town where it wasn't considered acceptable among the teachers but at the third

I knew a few guys with kids at that school and they felt like they had to deprogram their kids everyday

I think there was something in the water in that part of town.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2759439
My view is that Creationism is a acceptable theory... and can be taught... I think it should be up to the School Bd. and teaching evolution only is not right. You can leave the dynamics of religion out of it... but again it should be an option.
2nd- in regards to Obama and this bill.... the expansion of the bill to include K-12... in particular to early education was/is to teach children about safeguards and prevention against abuse and pedophiles. I can't believe McCain and his supporters are attempting to skew the facts and attack Obama on this issue... if you honestly believe what is being said... I can see why you believe everything that comes out of the Bush Admin..
Latest news is that we are reniging on an agreement that was the main reason for the drop in violence in Iraq.. if this contiunes to develop you will see the Surge was a failure
SHow us the section of the bill that limited the scope of the curriculum to just abuse or pedophiles?

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2759416
Obama- I'm just posting the facts. You and others keep promoting theories like he didn't know to excuse it.
Religious History- I'll make a deal with ya; You assure me every teacher in Texas is teaching Science, Government and History from a purely objective standpoint with no secular agenda and I'll assure you that no teacher will have a religious agenda. Deal?
What theories? You're making Obama out to be this evil dictator that wants to corrupt innocent minds by teaching them a topic you think they won't understand or comprehend. So what exactly is your agenda, and what is your point to this whole issue? So Obama thinks it's OK for K - 6 to be taught this content. SO WHAT? Dude, you need to get your head out of the sand, and quit thinking we still live in the 60's and that kids grow up in a Leave It To Beaver neighborhood and lifestyle. The little darlings you want to protect are being taught computer skills and how to access the Internet. Ever watch those Dateline shows 'To Catch A Predator'? If you don't think these kids haven't seen this stuff, you're sadly mistaken. Remember the movie Kindergarten Cop with Arnuld? He had a kid in the class whose mother was a gynecologist. When he introduced himself, the first words out of his mouth were, "I have a pen$# and girls have a vagi%$#". Where was the outrage from you ultra conservatives then? Your argument is weak at best. I really don't know what you're trying to accomplish.
Sorry, but Government, Science, and History are a national cirriculum taught in every state. What exactly is there to skew in those subjects anyway? It's quite apparent the direction some schools want to take with this supposed religious history class.

 

[rylan1]

your viewpoints shows a lack of common sense. The proposal called for “age and developmentally appropriate” --- education and also allowed parents the option of withdrawing their children from such classroom instruction if they felt that it clashed with their beliefs or values.
This needs to be taught... and its obvious some people take issue with the subject because of they don't have the comfort level to be able to tale to their kids.... Its is clear that McCain is not able to debate on the issues.. but will continue to misrepresent the truth and raise trivial issues that have nothing to do with the things that matter... he will talk about celebrity, fundraisers, patriotism, sexism, he will form a commission to talk about how wall st got into this mess.
Lastly, I don't know how removed you are from what goes on in our schools, but children ... 8 yr olds, 10 yr olds, 12 yr olds are involved in -exual experiences... and you also should notice STD's are on the rise, and worse of all look at all the abuse that is going on... but again lets close our eyes and pretend its not going on.

 

[reefraff]

When I was in HS 73 - 77 world history discussed religion in depth. The teacher went off topic from the book quite a bit. He talked about all the different religions and how they affected cultures around the country. I mean how and the hell can you teach about the crusades without discussing religion?
But seriously, how are you going to have a purely religious class taught in school with no bias? I think having a chapter in a history book both sides can agree upon that deals with religious history would be fine. Just let the students read the information and reach their own conclusions.
As a Christian I don't want some secular piece of garbage feeding my kids a bunch of crap in school. I think the secularists have the same right not to have a bible thumper do the same to their kids.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2759479
SHow us the section of the bill that limited the scope of the curriculum to just abuse or pedophiles?
show me the section that defines the cirriculum that talks specifics of reproduction and everything else that comes along with that... Cut the games
What does this charge proove anyway? Why are we even debating it... SILLY SEASON... those words should summarize this entire thread.
What is McCain saying about these banks and AIG? --- More deregulation?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2759516
your viewpoints shows a lack of common sense. The proposal called for “age and developmentally appropriate” --- education and also allowed parents the option of withdrawing their children from such classroom instruction if they felt that it clashed with their beliefs or values.
This needs to be taught... and its obvious some people take issue with the subject because of they don't have the comfort level to be able to tale to their kids.... Its is clear that McCain is not able to debate on the issues.. but will continue to misrepresent the truth and raise trivial issues that have nothing to do with the things that matter... he will talk about celebrity, fundraisers, patriotism, sexism, he will form a commission to talk about how wall st got into this mess.
Lastly, I don't know how removed you are from what goes on in our schools, but children ... 8 yr olds, 10 yr olds, 12 yr olds are involved in -exual experiences... and you also should notice STD's are on the rise, and worse of all look at all the abuse that is going on... but again lets close our eyes and pretend its not going on.
First off any kid entering Kindergarten better know what there private parts are. The extent of Kindergarten S E X educations should be nobody has the right to touch you there or make you touch them there. You don't need a law to teach that.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2759518
When I was in HS 73 - 77 world history discussed religion in depth. The teacher went off topic from the book quite a bit. He talked about all the different religions and how they affected cultures around the country. I mean how and the hell can you teach about the crusades without discussing religion?
But seriously, how are you going to have a purely religious class taught in school with no bias? I think having a chapter in a history book both sides can agree upon that deals with religious history would be fine. Just let the students read the information and reach their own conclusions.
As a Christian I don't want some secular piece of garbage feeding my kids a bunch of crap in school. I think the secularists have the same right not to have a bible thumper do the same to their kids.
then send them to a christian school.
And you can talk about the history of the events and why they occured by giving both points of view... As a christian.. I could talk about Islam, Buddism, Confusist, etc... and be able to talk about them as part of culture and a people's beilef structure... just like we talk about the greek and roman gods... we are taught that... a teach should teach not try to convert or push and idelogy or belief... simple as that... there should not be a purely religious class in public school

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2759523
First off any kid entering Kindergarten better know what there private parts are. The extent of Kindergarten S E X educations should be nobody has the right to touch you there or make you touch them there. You don't need a law to teach that.
okay... kids no this... right?
We'll how come it seems to be more m-olesters than ever before... I know people are more likely to speak up now than before... but that is because of education.
I know a good # of people that have share with me that they have been abused in this age range... and -ex ed is more than just "the birds and the bees" it about knowing your body, and it would seem to me that people are ashamed of the human body... this is the 21st century.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2759521
show me the section that defines the cirriculum that talks specifics of reproduction and everything else that comes along with that... Cut the games

See that is the problem. The bill leaves much to interpretation Rylan. Define age appropriate....at age five what is appropriate about --- education to learn about? Without concrete specifics, this bill is an open book to sexual education of five year olds.
The bill has no regulations....You are a big supporter of regulating companies, but you see know reason to regulate what an elementary teacher believes is age appropriate material. See this is Obama's stance on everything, regulate everyone else BUT NOT the government funded agencies and programs.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2759542
okay... kids no this... right?
We'll how come it seems to be more m-olesters than ever before... I know people are more likely to speak up now than before... but that is because of education.
I know a good # of people that have share with me that they have been abused in this age range... and -ex ed is more than just "the birds and the bees" it about knowing your body, and it would seem to me that people are ashamed of the human body... this is the 21st century.

actually, if you look at some numbers, molestations and rapes are down from 30 years ago.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2759516
your viewpoints shows a lack of common sense. The proposal called for “age and developmentally appropriate” --- ....
Again I say; Read the curriculum then let's have an intelligent discussion about this.
I've read the curriculum for K through 2nd grade Rylan...

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2759521
show me the section that defines the cirriculum that talks specifics of reproduction and everything else that comes along with that... Cut the games
What does this charge proove anyway? Why are we even debating it... SILLY SEASON... those words should summarize this entire thread.
What is McCain saying about these banks and AIG? --- More deregulation?
Still spreading lies about McCain I see
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/election2...ory/52557.html
What this proves is the McCain ad was accurate. Obama voted for a bill that would allow for comprehensive S education K - 12.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2759516
.. he will form a commission to talk about how wall st got into this mess....
Forming a commission and trying to pass Legislation (the Bill in 2005 I mentioned earlier that he co-sponsored) sure beats being on the payroll of he M ortgage companies like Obama...