New Strains of Ich - Beware
- Thread starter triton
- Start date
locoyo386
Member
Originally Posted by Salt Life
http:///forum/post/3058000
are you gonna share it with us or are you gonna keep it a secret too? I don't thank him for anything because starting a thread claiming you know something then not sharing info about it isn't doing much. and why would he answer you but not meowzer?
He send it to me via saltwaterfish.com PM, thus I am assuming the mods read it.
http:///forum/post/3058000
are you gonna share it with us or are you gonna keep it a secret too? I don't thank him for anything because starting a thread claiming you know something then not sharing info about it isn't doing much. and why would he answer you but not meowzer?
He send it to me via saltwaterfish.com PM, thus I am assuming the mods read it.
locoyo386
Member
Originally Posted by Salt Life
http:///forum/post/3058217
ok so the OP told you the only known drug to kill the new mutant stuff or whatever ya'll are calling it and he won't tell anyone else, if it is so hard to get to why did he tell you? alot of you new people seem to be the same person with 20 accounts or something. he doesn't respond now and you are the only one he told? I am calling BS cause this is dumb, either share the info so we can learn about it or stop wasting time.
I don't know how you define new, but you nad I joined this site about the same time. If you have a dought about who is who on here or who has multiple account, check with the mods (via PM) to see if they could tell you if it is the same IP adress they are using.
http:///forum/post/3058217
ok so the OP told you the only known drug to kill the new mutant stuff or whatever ya'll are calling it and he won't tell anyone else, if it is so hard to get to why did he tell you? alot of you new people seem to be the same person with 20 accounts or something. he doesn't respond now and you are the only one he told? I am calling BS cause this is dumb, either share the info so we can learn about it or stop wasting time.
I don't know how you define new, but you nad I joined this site about the same time. If you have a dought about who is who on here or who has multiple account, check with the mods (via PM) to see if they could tell you if it is the same IP adress they are using.
locoyo386
Member
Originally Posted by Salt Life
http:///forum/post/3058217
ok so the OP told you the only known drug to kill the new mutant stuff or whatever ya'll are calling it and he won't tell anyone else, if it is so hard to get to why did he tell you? alot of you new people seem to be the same person with 20 accounts or something. he doesn't respond now and you are the only one he told? I am calling BS cause this is dumb, either share the info so we can learn about it or stop wasting time.
You don't have to keep posting on thi thread if you don't want to. I am not debating wether there is a "new drug" to cure Ich or. I am debating wether Ich can adapt to tratments, specifically hyposalinity.
http:///forum/post/3058217
ok so the OP told you the only known drug to kill the new mutant stuff or whatever ya'll are calling it and he won't tell anyone else, if it is so hard to get to why did he tell you? alot of you new people seem to be the same person with 20 accounts or something. he doesn't respond now and you are the only one he told? I am calling BS cause this is dumb, either share the info so we can learn about it or stop wasting time.
You don't have to keep posting on thi thread if you don't want to. I am not debating wether there is a "new drug" to cure Ich or. I am debating wether Ich can adapt to tratments, specifically hyposalinity.
locoyo386
Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3058237
What I don’t understand is this new resistant strain of ick mutated from the over use of hypo. So that means this new strain would have to be introduced back into the ocean and effect fish and those fish would have to be captured and sold to the hobbyist. I don’t believe that you’re LFS as I have said treats with hypo. Copper yes but not for the time frame I would think to cause a mutant strain to develop in their store and sell you that infected fish
BUT if this is true would not the only company with a cure paten this cure and tell the would about this new strain and cure while laughing all the way to the bank
Well that is the questions. What path does Ich have to take in order to have a resitive strain of Ich on our home aquariums.
Is hyposalinity 100% effective on marine Ich?
http:///forum/post/3058237
What I don’t understand is this new resistant strain of ick mutated from the over use of hypo. So that means this new strain would have to be introduced back into the ocean and effect fish and those fish would have to be captured and sold to the hobbyist. I don’t believe that you’re LFS as I have said treats with hypo. Copper yes but not for the time frame I would think to cause a mutant strain to develop in their store and sell you that infected fish
BUT if this is true would not the only company with a cure paten this cure and tell the would about this new strain and cure while laughing all the way to the bank
Well that is the questions. What path does Ich have to take in order to have a resitive strain of Ich on our home aquariums.
Is hyposalinity 100% effective on marine Ich?
salt life
Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3058283
I have a little known way to treat ich that doesn't involve medications or hypo....you don't even need a QT.
seriously?
http:///forum/post/3058283
I have a little known way to treat ich that doesn't involve medications or hypo....you don't even need a QT.
seriously?
locoyo386
Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3058283
I have a little known way to treat ich that doesn't involve medications or hypo....you don't even need a QT.
I think we all have something or other that we know about salt water fish keeping that we don't tell everyone.
http:///forum/post/3058283
I have a little known way to treat ich that doesn't involve medications or hypo....you don't even need a QT.
I think we all have something or other that we know about salt water fish keeping that we don't tell everyone.
Ich that is resistant to hypo must have gotten that way due to having been exposed to water that is much less saline than your typical marine water--and survived. Mutations don't just happen, but are caused by something in the environment.
Now, an interesting thought would be if FW ich could make the jump to marine, perhaps due to human handling of brackish fish specimens.
Now, an interesting thought would be if FW ich could make the jump to marine, perhaps due to human handling of brackish fish specimens.
locoyo386
Member
Since I can't post links here is a quote from another person on a different site;
"Thanks greenbean36191. Are you referring to his 1997 or earlier work or something more recent.
One of his studies showed that the cyst lived in (I believe) 15ppt saline water and delayed producing Theronts for 28 days. However, the Theronts died at that ppt.
There are two stages of the Cryptocaryon irritans cycle that is affected by hyposalinity: Theronts and the encysted Tomonts. Each are susceptible to hyposalinity, but at different salinities, and in different ways. The most susceptible are the free swimming Theronts and they still die at hyposaline treatment levels. The cysts have been varying and some, though not killed, just delay their release of the Theronts (which do die).
Much of Colorni's work was on the cysts since at that time, it was thought that the cysts were the ones to attack and kill in any treatment process.
In the '70's when I worked on finding means to eradicate Marine Ich, the best approach was to attack the Theronts. Later that switched to the cysts. Now it's back to the Theronts.
Last year, which was a few months after I had heard the Asian rumors, I spoke in person with Dr. Edward Noga and a few other Veterinarian staff members of NCSU. At that time they too have not heard of any Theronts surviving hyposaline treatment.
To the best of my knowledge no one has showed Theronts capable of surviving low salinity. But there are always rumors and explanations on why the Marine Ich shows up after a hyposaline treatment. They often fall back on early work with cysts.
I meet with Dr. Noga in a few weeks. If you have any recent paper that might suggest otherwise to the above, I'd appreciate you providing the reference. I'd like to bring it to Dr. Noga's attention."
maybe it is a time frame issue and not wether they will die or not.
"Thanks greenbean36191. Are you referring to his 1997 or earlier work or something more recent.
One of his studies showed that the cyst lived in (I believe) 15ppt saline water and delayed producing Theronts for 28 days. However, the Theronts died at that ppt.
There are two stages of the Cryptocaryon irritans cycle that is affected by hyposalinity: Theronts and the encysted Tomonts. Each are susceptible to hyposalinity, but at different salinities, and in different ways. The most susceptible are the free swimming Theronts and they still die at hyposaline treatment levels. The cysts have been varying and some, though not killed, just delay their release of the Theronts (which do die).
Much of Colorni's work was on the cysts since at that time, it was thought that the cysts were the ones to attack and kill in any treatment process.
In the '70's when I worked on finding means to eradicate Marine Ich, the best approach was to attack the Theronts. Later that switched to the cysts. Now it's back to the Theronts.
Last year, which was a few months after I had heard the Asian rumors, I spoke in person with Dr. Edward Noga and a few other Veterinarian staff members of NCSU. At that time they too have not heard of any Theronts surviving hyposaline treatment.
To the best of my knowledge no one has showed Theronts capable of surviving low salinity. But there are always rumors and explanations on why the Marine Ich shows up after a hyposaline treatment. They often fall back on early work with cysts.
I meet with Dr. Noga in a few weeks. If you have any recent paper that might suggest otherwise to the above, I'd appreciate you providing the reference. I'd like to bring it to Dr. Noga's attention."
maybe it is a time frame issue and not wether they will die or not.
locoyo386
Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3058352
Ich that is resistant to hypo must have gotten that way due to having been exposed to water that is much less saline than your typical marine water--and survived. Mutations don't just happen, but are caused by something in the environment.
Now, an interesting thought would be if FW ich could make the jump to marine, perhaps due to human handling of brackish fish specimens.
well there are places in the earth where fresh water meets saltwater, I would think that there are different levels of salinity where these bodies of water meet.
Not everything happens in our home aquariums.
http:///forum/post/3058352
Ich that is resistant to hypo must have gotten that way due to having been exposed to water that is much less saline than your typical marine water--and survived. Mutations don't just happen, but are caused by something in the environment.
Now, an interesting thought would be if FW ich could make the jump to marine, perhaps due to human handling of brackish fish specimens.
well there are places in the earth where fresh water meets saltwater, I would think that there are different levels of salinity where these bodies of water meet.
Not everything happens in our home aquariums.
Yep, and that is pretty much my understanding of the alleged mutant strains. There were rumors started a few years ago, that resistant ich was coming out of Southeast Asia, however, nothing was proven. I have actually been hearing these rumors since I first started using (and advocating for hypo) 8 years ago.
locoyo386
Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3058367
Yep, and that is pretty much my understanding of the alleged mutant strains. There were rumors started a few years ago, that resistant ich was coming out of Southeast Asia, however, nothing was proven. I have actually been hearing these rumors since I first started using (and advocating for hypo) 8 years ago.
Exactly, they were never provven to be true. Even if they where ture hyposalinity still work on the long run. According to the new "rumors" this new strain is actully not affected by it at all, and it could be coming from vietnam. The only way I thought I mioght have an idea about it was to treat fish that have Ich. The question that now I have, thanks to Joe, is if I can diagnose Ich and be 100% sure it is Ich.
http:///forum/post/3058367
Yep, and that is pretty much my understanding of the alleged mutant strains. There were rumors started a few years ago, that resistant ich was coming out of Southeast Asia, however, nothing was proven. I have actually been hearing these rumors since I first started using (and advocating for hypo) 8 years ago.
Exactly, they were never provven to be true. Even if they where ture hyposalinity still work on the long run. According to the new "rumors" this new strain is actully not affected by it at all, and it could be coming from vietnam. The only way I thought I mioght have an idea about it was to treat fish that have Ich. The question that now I have, thanks to Joe, is if I can diagnose Ich and be 100% sure it is Ich.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
The question that now I have, thanks to Joe, is if I can diagnose Ich and be 100% sure it is Ich.
And in that my friend is the real dilemma. It is like treating bacteria with a broad-spectrum antibiotic. Hoping that it is effective. We treat every white spot and scratching as if it were ick.
We treat with hypo or copper if it cures the fish we are all happy. If not we blame the treatment with out verifying our diagnosis
And in that my friend is the real dilemma. It is like treating bacteria with a broad-spectrum antibiotic. Hoping that it is effective. We treat every white spot and scratching as if it were ick.
We treat with hypo or copper if it cures the fish we are all happy. If not we blame the treatment with out verifying our diagnosis
windlasher
Member
windlasher
Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3058283
I have a little known way to treat ich that doesn't involve medications or hypo....you don't even need a QT.
Boiling water?
OH wait - That's Hypo and QT. Never mind.
http:///forum/post/3058283
I have a little known way to treat ich that doesn't involve medications or hypo....you don't even need a QT.
Boiling water?
OH wait - That's Hypo and QT. Never mind.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3058494
And in that my friend is the real dilemma. It is like treating bacteria with a broad-spectrum antibiotic. Hoping that it is effective. We treat every white spot and scratching as if it were ick.
We treat with hypo or copper if it cures the fish we are all happy. If not we blame the treatment with out verifying our diagnosis
While I do believe the op was for whatever reason endorsing this product it did in fact open my eyes to a very real dilemma, as I stated above and that is accurate diagnoses of Ick
http:///forum/post/3058494
And in that my friend is the real dilemma. It is like treating bacteria with a broad-spectrum antibiotic. Hoping that it is effective. We treat every white spot and scratching as if it were ick.
We treat with hypo or copper if it cures the fish we are all happy. If not we blame the treatment with out verifying our diagnosis
While I do believe the op was for whatever reason endorsing this product it did in fact open my eyes to a very real dilemma, as I stated above and that is accurate diagnoses of Ick
Originally Posted by windlasher
http:///forum/post/3058659
Boiling water?
OH wait - That's Hypo and QT. Never mind.
Nope, I'm serious. However, the measure is so drastic, that I am hesitant to mention it in the open forum.
http:///forum/post/3058659
Boiling water?
OH wait - That's Hypo and QT. Never mind.
Nope, I'm serious. However, the measure is so drastic, that I am hesitant to mention it in the open forum.
locoyo386
Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3058665
While I do believe the op was for whatever reason endorsing this product it did in fact open my eyes to a very real dilemma, as I stated above and that is accurate diagnoses of Ick
Trully the point of this thread. Wether there is a new cure for ich, is sort of irelevant. If it is true, we all would eventually hear about it. If it's not ture than well we will all forget it in time. When it comes to Ich, that is where the real problem is. Diagnosis of Ich has to be accurate in order to treat for it. How about if it is indeed more resitive to treatments, than what? It will be harder to get rid off.
http:///forum/post/3058665
While I do believe the op was for whatever reason endorsing this product it did in fact open my eyes to a very real dilemma, as I stated above and that is accurate diagnoses of Ick
Trully the point of this thread. Wether there is a new cure for ich, is sort of irelevant. If it is true, we all would eventually hear about it. If it's not ture than well we will all forget it in time. When it comes to Ich, that is where the real problem is. Diagnosis of Ich has to be accurate in order to treat for it. How about if it is indeed more resitive to treatments, than what? It will be harder to get rid off.
