New way to cure ich?

1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2545116
In the meantime you are disregarding the people who have indicated to you, at nauseum, that they've had good results. Since a lot of people on here consider the mods to have the best answers, your stubborness is going to cost fish lives.
And just out of curiosity, can you tell me which of the ich meds you don't find to be "dubious"?

Crimzy, read this thread again.
There is ONE person posting on this thread that has seen the medication in practice. ONE person. Not "people". I'm not discounting a plethora of successful uses.
Now, that person in particular said the fish it was used on "looked better" but still had ich on it after being treated. Now, a week later the ich is not visible.
Well, as the life cycle of ich can easily explain why the fish looks better a week later there is absolutely no evidence the medication successfully treated the parasitic infection. Therefore, I fall back to investigating the company, their reputation, claims, methodology, etc.
There is not a single medication that I have seen that lives up to it's claims to cure Ich while being reef and invert safe. There are some medicines that appear to help "treat" Ich and may very well be reef safe.
Due to to resilient nature of Ich, the various life stages of it, and the delicate nature of our tanks Ich is a plague. That's not my fault
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2545133
There is not a single medication that I have seen that lives up to it's claims to cure Ich while being reef and invert safe. There are some medicines that appear to help "treat" Ich and may very well be reef safe.
I agree with this. However it seems that when discussing ich and meds (not just in this thread), it's like pulling teeth to get some people to admit that there is a POSSIBILITY that there is a med that can have a beneficial effect. What you've stated above is, IMO, absolutely accurate and sound advice.
I feel like rejoicing... HALLELUJAH!!
 
m0nk

m0nk

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2545072
Monk, it sounds to me like you're one of the unfortunate few who has the ugliest of the ugly species of Ich... For you, copper may be the only solution.
I have considered this, but after the lengthy hypo processes, and the fact that I have 3 tangs, I'd rather not go through another round of treatment, especially since they're already back in the DT. It'll be in the back of my mind for possible future treatment, though.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2545144
I agree with this. However it seems that when discussing ich and meds (not just in this thread), it's like pulling teeth to get some people to admit that there is a POSSIBILITY that there is a med that can have a beneficial effect. What you've stated above is, IMO, absolutely accurate and sound advice.
I feel like rejoicing... HALLELUJAH!!

I don't think that any of us were saying that there is no reef safe medication that will have a positive effect. I was saying, and have said before, that they will not eradicate the parasites from the tank. I have told people many times to go ahead and use a medication, such as kick ich. I also point out to them that the medication helps keep the parasites off of the body of the fish but that some will still attach, which is what happens. People have also reported that certain medications have melted certain corals. These medications certainly do have some positive benefits. They allow the fish to regain their immunity and fight off the parasites on their own. They do NOT, however, kill the parasites in the tank. If any of the fish, or a new fish, has a weakened immune system then ich will be able to attach. At that point they have to add more medication to the tank. They can simply take care of the problem in the first place and not have to worry about it.
 
rudedog40

rudedog40

Member
I hate beating the dead horse, but I've still never understood the ich cycle. All the experts say if you hypo/copper and keep your DT 'fish free' for up to six weeks, you will completely eradicate ich from the tank. However, my only battle with ich occurred when I added a Blue Hippo with my puffer and two chromis back in September of last year. The Blue Hippo came down with ich, and only the Blue Hippo. I treated the tank with Ich Attack, garlic, and metrodiazonole. The ich disappeared off the Blue Hippo. Since then, I have added multiple corals and 3 fish. I have yet to see another white spot. About the only thing I do to my tank now is water top-offs, and an occassional water change. So if ich is still present in my tank, where is it? I've already heard the "It's still alive, and most likely hiding in the gills of your fish" story at adnauseum. But if that's the case, why don't I EVER see an external breakout? I was religiously feeding my fish garlic on a daily basis (I used Seachum Garlic Guard. Soaked their frozen food in it for about 3 minutes until the frozen melted). But I haven't done this in over a month. Everyone seems happy, everyone eats. They look like a school of pirahna when I walk up to the tank to feed them.
So as far as I can tell, the ich is gone from my tank. My theory is I broke the cycle by keeping my fish healthy, and the ich wouldn't/couldn't attach because of it. Could I be wrong? By all the supposed expert opinions about ich and their life cycle, I'm told that I am. But I haven't seen one indication of ich in my tank for over 6 months. Maybe I had a weak strain of ich, or I have a bunch of "Super Fish". Who knows?
 
fats71

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2544846
Hang in there.
Unfortunately, Ich typically drops off a fish as part of it's life cycle and can appear to be gone. That's the difficulty with measuring the success of medications.
It dropped off within minutes of the medication being dropped in the tank. I am not talking about alittle bit of white spots I meann full blown on the eyes ich it was nothing but white from ich how it was alive I have no idea. The ich fell off in such mass that it looked like it was going thru a car wash. The fish is alive and thriving within 4 days. when I said it fell off IT FELL OFF !!!!
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2545071
I'm not disregarding anything Crimzy.
I spent a couple of hours researching this product. I posted my results;
*The company in question will not explain what is in their product
{why would someone give out a formula so others can duplicate it and they lose money )
*Company will not post any reports of the testing that they supposedly did
Kelloggs corn flakes did not either but hey we all lovves our frosted flakes
*Company makes false claims regarding Ich What wa the false claim ?
*Company uses false testimonials acredited to experts in our field. Those same experts have disavowed ever endorsing the product. Where is this info at as I did not see it on their testimonials and where do they diavowe it so I too can become leary of their practices
So, based on my limited investigation, I fall back to suggesting curing a preventable disease over trying to put a Band Aid on it.
I would rather suggest doing nothing over using a dubious product if those are my two choices.

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2545133
Crimzy, read this thread again.
There is ONE person posting on this thread that has seen the medication in practice. ONE person. Not "people". I'm not discounting a plethora of successful uses.
Your right one person posting I have 4 other people who saw it as well would that comfort you if they signed up as well and posted >?
Now, that person in particular said the fish it was used on "looked better" but still had ich on it after being treated. Now, a week later the ich is not visible
Well, as the life cycle of ich can easily explain why the fish looks better a week later there is absolutely no evidence the medication successfully treated the parasitic infection. Therefore, I fall back to investigating the company, their reputation, claims, methodology, etc.
There is not a single medication that I have seen that lives up to it's claims to cure Ich while being reef and invert safe. There are some medicines that appear to help "treat" Ich and may very well be reef safe. wELL GIVE IT A SHOT YOU CAN AFFORD 35 TO 50 BUCKS CANT YA FOR THHE SAKE OF YOUR HOBBY ?
Due to to resilient nature of Ich, the various life stages of it, and the delicate nature of our tanks Ich is a plague. That's not my fault
 
grim_reefer

grim_reefer

Member
i heard if you play bob segar on the radio, the fish will dance (shaking the ich off) and boost their immune system
 
fats71

fats71

Active Member
Originally Posted by Grim_Reefer
http:///forum/post/2545699
i heard if you play bob segar on the radio, the fish will dance (shaking the ich off) and boost their immune system


You are so out of line !!!
No ones owns a radio anymore it's a iPOD world pal get it together. Next you will be playing elvis to your fishies on your 8 track. If you dont get with the program and purchase some iPODS for your fishies I will report you to PETA OR THE PTA or MADD Whoever gets pissed off about everything I dunno whatever they are called I just know they get bent about everything and thats who your gonna be reported 2.
 
fats71

fats71

Active Member
ipods have been shown to decrease the ich outbreak along with garlic bread and turtle wax mixed and gently glazed over your fish into a nice rich lather. I read it so it must be true.
 
al mc

al mc

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2544843
With all of the posts here, it surprises me that there are only a couple of people that actually offer legitimate advice rather than agendas. Kudos to DanielJames and Perfectdark for their contributions.
Sepulation, Journeyman, Al Mc, Monk... you all seem to completely disregard that there is a potential to TREAT the symptoms of ich without actually killing the parasite. No one has disagreed that hypo and copper are the only recognized way to kill the parasite. I'm not clear why some people go to such lengths to discredit testimonial of effective treatments. Maybe you can enlighten me? Do you think that there is absolutely no value whatsoever to treat symptoms of ich when hypo and copper are not options?
Many people, myself included, have seen certain treatments work. Why is it so important to you to debate these observations to death? Especially when you are generally speaking about products that you've never actually seen in use?
If you have read my threads I try to educate people that there is a difference between treating the symptoms of Ich and eliminating the parasite.
This is an open forum. We all come to this forum with different experience levels and backgrounds. My personal belief is that elimination of Ich should be the goal.
Personally, I do take offense to your statement that I totally disregard the potential to treat Ich. I don't disregard it. If that is your only viable choice, then treat to control. If at all possible, treat to eliminate.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Fats.. It's late tonight. I read your replies and would love to discus it further tomorrow when I'm a bit more awake. Just wanted you to know I wasn't dodging ya.
 
perfectdark

perfectdark

Active Member
My Opinion about ich. I agree 100% with 1Journey in these little parasites are the Cockroaches of the ocean.
I do believe that ich has a life cycle and it can be killed, I do believe that a QT is necessary, I do believe (NOW) that the only way to ensure a healthy specimine added to your DT is to start hypo as soon as it enters your QT. The reasons have all been stated above, and even at that with some terribly tenacious species, it appears that ich can still survive (and copper is the next step). Although the percentage is far less, it is still possible. I have concluded that IMO there is no way anyone can say 100% unless their tank is fallow there there isnt the ich parasite present in their system. If ich can live on fish unseen, and undected for 4 to 6 weeks, which it can and has in my scenario. Then at the end of their quarrantine period the fish along with the parasite will indeed get added to your DT. If I hadnt had an issue that stressed my fish to the point of a serious attack I would of added it to my DT with no worries. How many other people here have observed their fish in quarantine for 4 to 6 weeks, noticed no issues and acclimated to their DT. And still have no issues? I bet a lot... I also bet if you examined one or all of their fish you would find the parasite somewhere on them. If in the wild there was no way to hold this parasite at bay, or to a minimum then wouldnt every fish be infected by it so severly that it would be noticable? Isnt it also reasonble to assume that 90% of the fish wild caught have this parasite on them in some form or another? How would we know if this invert can stay unoticed on a healthy fish for so long and it isnt seen until the point of stress? I just think that in most cases this is a pest that is most often controlled and rarely erradicated completly from our systems. JMO.
With the exception of the above medication, I have tried Kick Ich, and another product I dont remember the name it was kinda weird smelling like, Eucalyptus, I believe it was an API product. It did nothing for my fish, but it did hurt a lot of my corals, I lost half of my GSP's all of my lg zoa rock, my shrooms shrunk and everything slimed up. All my inverts died with the exception of my cleaner shrimp who went to the back of my tank and hid for over a week. Just swaying in the current and not moving. I thought it was a gonner, I later learned that one of the products I used can actually suffocate corals and inverts by leaving a coating on them. I didnt use it long enough to tell if it would of worked on my fish.
 
fats71

fats71

Active Member
this is a pest that is most often controlled and rarely erradicated completly from our systems. JMO.
Agreed
I am not saying no sick fish kills it in the tank but I have seen the stufff fall offf as soon as it was released into the tank. The parasite might still be in the tank but if in fact it cycles and it has droppped completely off thhe fishh wont it die out naturally if it hhas nothing to host it any longer ie fish ?
I do not know for sure and still stand by that their will always be some sort or form of ich in your tank and the best thing to ddo is to keep healthy fishh keeping it from forming on them and keeping them stress free will eventually irraddicate the parasite to the point that if their is some form of it it is a strain that will most likely never show on your specimen.
 
timbodmb

timbodmb

Member
OMG- This is making me ill... I want this post to be over.
BTW, my perc likes 110 Classical on XM, I saw the ich dancing to Seger, so steer clear.
 
T

tizzo

Guest
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2545856
If you have read my threads I try to educate people that there is a difference between treating the symptoms of Ich and eliminating the parasite.
If at all possible, treat to eliminate.
This thread has taken on 2 separate platforms. Interesting. 1 topic, 2 perspectives.
I understand both.
But I have to say that I agree with those pushing to eliminate the disease.
When my daughter had MRSA, I didn't take her to the doc and ask him to "treat the symptoms", I wanted it gone!
Pretty much every ailment I can think of, I wanna target the cause and eliminate it. To treat the symptoms is what we do when we don't know the cause. ie headaches.
But at the same time, if it's in an established reef tank, then treating the symptoms may be the only option. Garlic, UV, maybe even kick ick. Because honestly, if I removed all of my fish for 6 weeks and put them all in qt, I believe I would lose some of them as well as corals, from trying to catch the fish.
I just hope it doesn't get into my DT to begin with.
 
rudedog40

rudedog40

Member
Originally Posted by timbodmb
http:///forum/post/2546606
OMG- This is making me ill... I want this post to be over.
BTW, my perc likes 110 Classical on XM, I saw the ich dancing to Seger, so steer clear.
The posts on ich will never die. At least not on this forum. Ich posts are the 'cockroaches' of this forum. You can kill them, but some form of them always come back to live again. Someone comes up with the same questions and/or debate about once a month. What's comical is the same arguments insue everytime the topic does come up. The way I see it, you can do one of two things:
1) Do the fallow DT for 6 weeks and hypo/copper fish in QT.
2) Treat your tank with one of the 'ich medicines' on the market, as well as keep your fish healthy where they are less likely to contract the parasite.
Which one you choose is really up to you. It's your tank, and your fish. Some people prefer option 1, because it gives them the comfort level knowing they eradicated the parasite from their system. Others choose option 2 because they either go by the theory that you can never completely get rid of ich out of a tank, or because it's too much of a pain to setup a QT and pull all your fish out. As long as YOU are satisfied with that decision, what does it matter what others think?
 
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