Nitrate reduction

[srfisher17]

I'm planning my 4th ,and last (yeah,right) tank. This tank is getting bigger everyday and is going to be another "retro" tank. NO LR,just skeletal coral & substrate. These tanks remind me of my early days in the hobby and I love them. I lucked into a big supply of beautiful, colorful skeletal coral, so I can do it my way...besides I just don't like LR; although I use it in my 2 bigger tanks.
The question: LR harbors nitrate eliminating bacteria better than anything I know of and I'm looking for some new ways to keep nitrate down. I do enough water changes; but will admit to over-crowding at times--but not to any extreme. It will be a fish only tank, so I'm not really worried about the fish; but, nitrates can really contribute to diatom growth. I've found a neat way to handle the problem in my 55 "retro": I use a big HOT filter that will use the impeller from a much smaller model of the same brand. I use LR rubble in the filter box and the small impeller slows the water flow and allows the de-nitrate bacteria to thrive. At least, that's what I think is happening; I've done it for years and it works. I've been thinking of using a 10 gal tank next to the 55 gal sump; using LR rubble and finding a way to keep a slow flow from the tank to the rubble and back. I'd sure like to find an easier way. Any ideas?

 

[bang guy]

Do you have the space for a 4" live sand bed with a surface area around 2 square feet?

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2565353
Do you have the space for a 4" live sand bed with a surface area around 2 square feet?
In the DT, 55 gal sump, or possible 10 gal aux. sump? I imagine, yes to all 3...I still have lots of flexibility.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2565383
In the DT, 55 gal sump, or possible 10 gal aux. sump? I imagine, yes to all 3...I still have lots of flexibility.
Something with the footprint of a 29 gal would be ideal. A rubbermaid container could work. It can be smaller but the critters needed to maintain a healthy sand bed are more difficult to raise in something like a 10 gallon. A partition in the 55 gallon sump would be perfect.

 

[al mc]

Fisher and Bang..There have been several recent posts about Vodka dosing to reduce/eliminate nitrates..what about trying that?

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2565960
Fisher and Bang..There have been several recent posts about Vodka dosing to reduce/eliminate nitrates..what about trying that?

It does a little for Nitrate but Vodka has the most effect on Phosphate.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2565889
Something with the footprint of a 29 gal would be ideal. A rubbermaid container could work. It can be smaller but the critters needed to maintain a healthy sand bed are more difficult to raise in something like a 10 gallon. A partition in the 55 gallon sump would be perfect.
I've got plenty of room and an odd size tank, about 27 gal, that's about 36x12x17. It would be easier to use this than partition the 55. I can also fit a rubbermaid (great stuff in this hobby) of any size...but will the tank work? I'll still have plenty of access space above it. Refugium?

 

[bang guy]

That tank would work just fine.
You'll need some quantity of real live sand, not the stuff with just bacteria. So, about 3.5" of dead sand and up to 1/2" of live sand freshly harvested from the ocean. It can be less than that for the live sand but more than 1/2" is just a waste. It looks like this site has 10 pounds as the smallest amount. That would work.

 

[florida joe]

Can you post some pics, have you thought along these lines? if you have a gravity feed for your sump and you tie into that line feed an auxiliary tank with some of that water going to your sump set that tank up with a deep sand bed partition it off with egg crate cultivate Cheato and caulerpa if your auxiliary tank is acrylic you can drill and bulkhead the side position your tank so its higher then your sump and just dump the water into your sump you can valve the influent side of your smaller tank to control flow, it may sound a little confusion but I am going to receive my custom made refug tank this week and I am doing something along the same lines I will post pics

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2566332
That tank would work just fine.
You'll need some quantity is real live sand, not the stuff with just bacteria. So, about 3.5" of dead sand and up to 1/2" of live sand freshly harvested from the ocean. It can be less than that for the live sand but more than 1/2" is just a waste. It looks like this site has 10 pounds as the smallest amount. That would work.
That's the way I'll go. Thanks! I've done a little homework in this area, I may convert my 55 "retro, small fish" tank to a reef--I haven't had one since Katrina. Not much room in a standard 55 cabinet; but when I relocated, just about everything in my new house (and even the plumbing) was chosen with fishy stuff in mind. The piece or furniture next to the 55 can easily hide anything I need. But 1st thing 1st.

 

[srfisher17]

It will be about a month before I'm ready to set up. The easiest way for me would be to have my sump & sand bed set up completely separate, I'll have a support partition to deal with. The DT is 8' long; but we're making the cabinet about 10'. It will fill the entire wall and have plenty of storage & room for a little error. Thanks again! I have a god idea of where we're going and will get back for more help when the time comes.

 

[bang guy]

Have you read about the potential downside of sandbeds?

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2572054
Have you read about the potential downside of sandbeds?
I've already forgot most of what I read last time I almost made one, still have lots of time. Any recommended reading material? Thanks!

 

[apos]

If you're this experienced, I'd honestly get a sulfur denitrator and be done with it. Spend the extra space you have on refugiums, skimming, and propagation areas instead, and don't worry about the downsides of a DSB.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2572944
If you're this experienced, I'd honestly get a sulfur denitrator and be done with it. Spend the extra space you have on refugiums, skimming, and propagation areas instead, and don't worry about the downsides of a DSB.
I've taken a quick look at these and would appreciate success/non-success comments. Also, anyone know of one that can be easily moved from tank to tank? That would really get me excited. I could get rid of the clumsy, but very effective contraption I use in my small retro tank. Thanks again!

 

[snakeblitz33]

pfft, if you are worried so much about not having enough biological filtration, you might want to consider getting a fluidized bed filter. The sand harbors areas for trillions of nitrifying bacteria that breaks down waste. Best of all, it's self cleaning.
Deep Sand Bed's are very good at doing this as well, and even grows certain microfauna, however over time they become saturated with nutrience and can produce hydrosulfate (foul smelling black stuff) that is harmful if released back into the tank.
Proper maintenance of a deep sand bed is essential to it's success.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2573826
pfft, if you are worried so much about not having enough biological filtration, you might want to consider getting a fluidized bed filter. The sand harbors areas for trillions of nitrifying bacteria that breaks down waste. Best of all, it's self cleaning.
But they do nothing for Nitrate.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2574312
But they do nothing for Nitrate.
You beat me; nitrate is my only concern. There are many good ways to handle nitrite...nitrate in a non-LR system is another story.

 

[apos]

Sulfer denitrators are basically just like any media filter: set it up, have a pump run water through it, and some minor daily adjustments/testing.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2577628
Sulfer denitrators are basically just like any media filter: set it up, have a pump run water through it, and some minor daily adjustments/testing.
Thanks, that may be a good way to go.
Just an idea to bounce off all of you, again, my only concern is nitrate level..this will be a 24o gal tank with no LR (a great de-nitrater) I have i a lot of room in the cabinet that's being built.
What if I took a piece of PVC, say 10"-12" and about 30" high, capped the ends, and filled it with nano-size LR & LR rubble. Then ran a slow flow into the top and a return to the DT out the bottom? I could even make 2 or 3 of these. I think the secret would be to have the flow slow enough to de-nitrate; while still having enough turnover. Stupid idea or pure genius, ala Wyle E. Coyote? I could even alter the cabinet, its going to fill a 10' wide wall, and use a single piece of PVC. It could be about any diameter and easily 6' tall. I have a good source of almost free LR rubble & small pieces...so that's no factor. Thanks!