Nitrites Off the Chart!
- Thread starter tr1gger
- Start date
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2702918
Ok here I go again IMO your filter is not the problem in your 90-gallon most of your bio flirtation is being handled by the colonization in your tank not on your biowheel Nitrite is an intermediate step in nitrification so for it to be off the chart there has to be no conversion from nitrite to nitrate as mentioned a nitrite reading off the chart will defiantly effect you fish. I am betting on a bad test kit. It is very very rare that your bacteria, which convert nitrite to nitrate, have crashed and thus you have an end product of nitrite
I sure hate to disagree with Joe, but with no LR, I think the bio-wheel has to be the main bio-filtration source. I don't think this tank has enough flow for the substrate to handle it. Although they do nothing for nitrate; bio-wheels can do an adequate job on ammonia & nitrite, IMO.
http:///forum/post/2702918
Ok here I go again IMO your filter is not the problem in your 90-gallon most of your bio flirtation is being handled by the colonization in your tank not on your biowheel Nitrite is an intermediate step in nitrification so for it to be off the chart there has to be no conversion from nitrite to nitrate as mentioned a nitrite reading off the chart will defiantly effect you fish. I am betting on a bad test kit. It is very very rare that your bacteria, which convert nitrite to nitrate, have crashed and thus you have an end product of nitrite
I sure hate to disagree with Joe, but with no LR, I think the bio-wheel has to be the main bio-filtration source. I don't think this tank has enough flow for the substrate to handle it. Although they do nothing for nitrate; bio-wheels can do an adequate job on ammonia & nitrite, IMO.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2703055
I sure hate to disagree with Joe, but with no LR, I think the bio-wheel has to be the main bio-filtration source. I don't think this tank has enough flow for the substrate to handle it. Although they do nothing for nitrate; bio-wheels can do an adequate job on ammonia & nitrite, IMO.
Mr. T if anyone is going to disagree with me you are one of the people I want it to be so we can discuss for the betterment of our hobby. My point of view is this. In a 90-gallon tank the surface area of his substraight is far greater then the pleated area of his bio-wheel. The majority of his colonized nitrifying bacteria IMO is on his substrate. As you know live rock is great for nitrification because the area of the rock is greater then the foot print thus more colonization more area means more places to grow. Now depending on his water turnover his ammonia producing produce is most likely falling to the substraight unless he has massive “dead” spots on his substraight the product is coming into contact with the nitrifying bacteria more readily there and thus stimulating more growth in that location Your thought please
http:///forum/post/2703055
I sure hate to disagree with Joe, but with no LR, I think the bio-wheel has to be the main bio-filtration source. I don't think this tank has enough flow for the substrate to handle it. Although they do nothing for nitrate; bio-wheels can do an adequate job on ammonia & nitrite, IMO.
Mr. T if anyone is going to disagree with me you are one of the people I want it to be so we can discuss for the betterment of our hobby. My point of view is this. In a 90-gallon tank the surface area of his substraight is far greater then the pleated area of his bio-wheel. The majority of his colonized nitrifying bacteria IMO is on his substrate. As you know live rock is great for nitrification because the area of the rock is greater then the foot print thus more colonization more area means more places to grow. Now depending on his water turnover his ammonia producing produce is most likely falling to the substraight unless he has massive “dead” spots on his substraight the product is coming into contact with the nitrifying bacteria more readily there and thus stimulating more growth in that location Your thought please
sepulatian
Moderator
What exactly is the nitrite reading? It is reading past 5.0 (the highest reading on the nitrite card)? They would show signs at that point, actually long before. Nitrite is not as toxic as ammonia, some will argue that it isn't at all, but it does stress them. I had a nitrite issue when my tank was new. That was when I joined this site. No one could figure out why. I did a lot of research on it. Nitrite does effect the fish. It makes their blood flow faster and puts the fish into fight or flight mode. They can get different symptoms from heavy breathing to heart failure or brain damage. Take a water sample to your LFS and have it checked.
How long has this tank been set up? How long was it set up before you added fish? How did you cycle it? My nitrite issue was the result of a soft cycle and then adding too many fish too quickly. My ammonia had been at zero for months before the nitrite spike occurred. When it did, I battled it for a couple of months. I was doing daily water changes and using large amounts of Amquel plus to reduce it. It hovered at 1ppm for the longest time. I lost several fish. It finally cycled through. The bacteria that breaks down nitrite takes time to establish. If you bought live sand in a sealed bag, such as what you may find at a *****, then it was only live in bacteria cultures. It would not be able to break down nitrite. That bacteria has to colonize in the tank. It takes time.
Take a sample to your LFS, see if your reading is accurate. Post how long this tank has been set up, how it was cycled, and when you added fish.
How long has this tank been set up? How long was it set up before you added fish? How did you cycle it? My nitrite issue was the result of a soft cycle and then adding too many fish too quickly. My ammonia had been at zero for months before the nitrite spike occurred. When it did, I battled it for a couple of months. I was doing daily water changes and using large amounts of Amquel plus to reduce it. It hovered at 1ppm for the longest time. I lost several fish. It finally cycled through. The bacteria that breaks down nitrite takes time to establish. If you bought live sand in a sealed bag, such as what you may find at a *****, then it was only live in bacteria cultures. It would not be able to break down nitrite. That bacteria has to colonize in the tank. It takes time.
Take a sample to your LFS, see if your reading is accurate. Post how long this tank has been set up, how it was cycled, and when you added fish.
srgvigil
Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2703123
What exactly is the nitrite reading? It is reading past 5.0 (the highest reading on the nitrite card)? They would show signs at that point. Nitrite is not as toxic as ammonia, some will argue that it isn't at all, but it does stress them. I had a nitrite issue when my tank was new. That was when I joined this site. No one could figure out why. I did a lot of research on it. Nitrite does effect the fish. It makes their blood flow faster and puts the fish into fight or flight mode. They can get different symptoms from heavy breathing to heart failure or brain damage. Take a water sample to your LFS and have it checked.
How long has this tank been set up? How long was it set up before you added fish. How did you cycle it. My nitrite issue was the result of a soft cycle and then adding too many fish too quickly. My ammonia had been at zero for months before the nitrite spike occurred. When it did, I battled it for a couple of months. I was doing daily water changes and using large amounts of Amquel plus to reduce it. It hovered at 1ppm for the longest time. I lost several fish. It finally cycled through. The bacteria that breaks down nitrite takes time to establish. If you bought live sand in a sealed bag, such as what you may find at a *****, then it was only live in bacteria cultures. It would not be able to break down nitrite. That bacteria has to colonize in the tank. It takes time.
Take a sample to your LFS, see if your reading is accurate. Post how long this tank has been set up, how it was cycled, and when you added fish.
Sep how many members were on the boards when you joined like 15? (sorry for not adding anything to thread just wanted to ask)
http:///forum/post/2703123
What exactly is the nitrite reading? It is reading past 5.0 (the highest reading on the nitrite card)? They would show signs at that point. Nitrite is not as toxic as ammonia, some will argue that it isn't at all, but it does stress them. I had a nitrite issue when my tank was new. That was when I joined this site. No one could figure out why. I did a lot of research on it. Nitrite does effect the fish. It makes their blood flow faster and puts the fish into fight or flight mode. They can get different symptoms from heavy breathing to heart failure or brain damage. Take a water sample to your LFS and have it checked.
How long has this tank been set up? How long was it set up before you added fish. How did you cycle it. My nitrite issue was the result of a soft cycle and then adding too many fish too quickly. My ammonia had been at zero for months before the nitrite spike occurred. When it did, I battled it for a couple of months. I was doing daily water changes and using large amounts of Amquel plus to reduce it. It hovered at 1ppm for the longest time. I lost several fish. It finally cycled through. The bacteria that breaks down nitrite takes time to establish. If you bought live sand in a sealed bag, such as what you may find at a *****, then it was only live in bacteria cultures. It would not be able to break down nitrite. That bacteria has to colonize in the tank. It takes time.
Take a sample to your LFS, see if your reading is accurate. Post how long this tank has been set up, how it was cycled, and when you added fish.
Sep how many members were on the boards when you joined like 15? (sorry for not adding anything to thread just wanted to ask)
nanomantis
Member
I read the op, and then posted so I do not know if this has been said but never clean the biowheel in the emperor. If you did that recently it is most likely the cause because all you are doing is washing off the beneficial bacteria.
tr1gger
Member
Sorry I was out all day...
New test kit from Hagen, which now I have a new LFS and this is the test they use. Is showing me to have at least 1.6 PPM. Which the old reading was showing over 5.0 PPM. Installed a secondary emporer 400 yesterday. I have never cleaned the bio wheels since you arent suppose to.
Tank Setup day And start of cycle : June 1st 2008
Completion of cycle : June 28th 2008
First Fish Added : July 5th 2008 (Bday Present)
Im still battling this nitriTe problem as of last night. Im going to post some readings up here in a minute and i will be heading back down to my lfs with a sample
New test kit from Hagen, which now I have a new LFS and this is the test they use. Is showing me to have at least 1.6 PPM. Which the old reading was showing over 5.0 PPM. Installed a secondary emporer 400 yesterday. I have never cleaned the bio wheels since you arent suppose to.
Tank Setup day And start of cycle : June 1st 2008
Completion of cycle : June 28th 2008
First Fish Added : July 5th 2008 (Bday Present)
Im still battling this nitriTe problem as of last night. Im going to post some readings up here in a minute and i will be heading back down to my lfs with a sample
tr1gger
Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2702707
How old is your tank? Do you disturb your sand-bed when you do maintenance?
I'd check the water with LFS, using expired test kits can result in poor readings.
Is it possible something died in the tank? Did the problem appear suddenly, or gradually?
Tank is almost 60 days old
I ruffle the top layer with a turkey baster
Nothing could of died in the tank
Gradually this problem arose.
http:///forum/post/2702707
How old is your tank? Do you disturb your sand-bed when you do maintenance?
I'd check the water with LFS, using expired test kits can result in poor readings.
Is it possible something died in the tank? Did the problem appear suddenly, or gradually?
Tank is almost 60 days old
I ruffle the top layer with a turkey baster
Nothing could of died in the tank
Gradually this problem arose.
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by NanoMantis
http:///forum/post/2703644
I read the op, and then posted so I do not know if this has been said but never clean the biowheel in the emperor. If you did that recently it is most likely the cause because all you are doing is washing off the beneficial bacteria.
Yeah, as I remember the the instructions for bio wheels; when they slow down, give them a quick swish in a bucket of tank water, never rub all the gunk off--thats the good bacteria. Also, keep the wheels floating in the tank if you have the filter off for maintenance. Same thing goes for bio-balls and other artificial bio-filtration media.
http:///forum/post/2703644
I read the op, and then posted so I do not know if this has been said but never clean the biowheel in the emperor. If you did that recently it is most likely the cause because all you are doing is washing off the beneficial bacteria.
Yeah, as I remember the the instructions for bio wheels; when they slow down, give them a quick swish in a bucket of tank water, never rub all the gunk off--thats the good bacteria. Also, keep the wheels floating in the tank if you have the filter off for maintenance. Same thing goes for bio-balls and other artificial bio-filtration media.
kjr_trig
Active Member
I am guessing it is part of your cycle combined with the fact that you are adding fish a bit too fast. With no LR a tank could easily take 8 weeks to cycle completely. Sounds like it is gradually decreasing though....What are your current Nitrate readings? Good news also is 2 of your 3 fish will likely have no problems, Volitan Lion and Huma Trigg are extremely hardy fish.
On a separate subject keep an eye on your Huma as he grows up over the next few years he may begin to pick on your Lion, there are a lot of people that have had Lions and Triggers successfully, but also a lot of people with dead Lions.
On a separate subject keep an eye on your Huma as he grows up over the next few years he may begin to pick on your Lion, there are a lot of people that have had Lions and Triggers successfully, but also a lot of people with dead Lions.
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2703080
Mr. T if anyone is going to disagree with me you are one of the people I want it to be so we can discuss for the betterment of our hobby. My point of view is this. In a 90-gallon tank the surface area of his substraight is far greater then the pleated area of his bio-wheel. The majority of his colonized nitrifying bacteria IMO is on his substrate. As you know live rock is great for nitrification because the area of the rock is greater then the foot print thus more colonization more area means more places to grow. Now depending on his water turnover his ammonia producing produce is most likely falling to the substraight unless he has massive “dead” spots on his substraight the product is coming into contact with the nitrifying bacteria more readily there and thus stimulating more growth in that location Your thought please
I'm certainly no expert Joe. But, if there isn't enough water to carry oxygen to and through the substrate, it won't support much bacteria. That's why the old-fashioned undergravel filters still can do an adequate job of removing ammonia and nitrite. (which was discovered long after they were in use as a mechanical filter--a very poor one.) bacteria that removes ammonia & nitrate needs lots of oxygen, and the wet/dry action of bio-wheels is very effective. This won't do anything for nitrate; that bacteria needs the oxygen poor environment of the deep area of LR to work.
http:///forum/post/2703080
Mr. T if anyone is going to disagree with me you are one of the people I want it to be so we can discuss for the betterment of our hobby. My point of view is this. In a 90-gallon tank the surface area of his substraight is far greater then the pleated area of his bio-wheel. The majority of his colonized nitrifying bacteria IMO is on his substrate. As you know live rock is great for nitrification because the area of the rock is greater then the foot print thus more colonization more area means more places to grow. Now depending on his water turnover his ammonia producing produce is most likely falling to the substraight unless he has massive “dead” spots on his substraight the product is coming into contact with the nitrifying bacteria more readily there and thus stimulating more growth in that location Your thought please
I'm certainly no expert Joe. But, if there isn't enough water to carry oxygen to and through the substrate, it won't support much bacteria. That's why the old-fashioned undergravel filters still can do an adequate job of removing ammonia and nitrite. (which was discovered long after they were in use as a mechanical filter--a very poor one.) bacteria that removes ammonia & nitrate needs lots of oxygen, and the wet/dry action of bio-wheels is very effective. This won't do anything for nitrate; that bacteria needs the oxygen poor environment of the deep area of LR to work.
There should be water circulation (via pumped water toward the bottom of the tank) in order to have a sufficiently viable bio filter in the substrate. That is key, to say the least. An adequate substrate of small particle sand is certainly the bulk of any biofilter in most marine aquaria and is certainly superior to any "filters" that humans can invent, imo.
If that does not exist in your system, and all you have is hang on filters, skimmers at the top of the tank, than I'd say that is a contributing factor to your problem.
If that does not exist in your system, and all you have is hang on filters, skimmers at the top of the tank, than I'd say that is a contributing factor to your problem.
tr1gger
Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2703849
There should be water circulation (via pumped water toward the bottom of the tank) in order to have a sufficiently viable bio filter in the substrate. That is key, to say the least. An adequate substrate of small particle sand is certainly the bulk of any biofilter in most marine aquaria and is certainly superior to any "filters" that humans can invent, imo.
If that does not exist in your system, and all you have is hang on filters, skimmers at the top of the tank, than I'd say that is a contributing factor to your problem.
There are 4 hydor korolia #1's in the tank moving water in ever direction including towards the substrate
http:///forum/post/2703849
There should be water circulation (via pumped water toward the bottom of the tank) in order to have a sufficiently viable bio filter in the substrate. That is key, to say the least. An adequate substrate of small particle sand is certainly the bulk of any biofilter in most marine aquaria and is certainly superior to any "filters" that humans can invent, imo.
If that does not exist in your system, and all you have is hang on filters, skimmers at the top of the tank, than I'd say that is a contributing factor to your problem.
There are 4 hydor korolia #1's in the tank moving water in ever direction including towards the substrate
cjworkman
Member
There's your answer.
the tank has no live rock, only live sand is only 60 days old with 3 fish in it.
a tank with no live rock will take a very long time to complete a cycle.
A 90 gallon with 100lbs of live rock and 100 lbs of live sand will take 3-4 weeks to complete a cycle...
without the live rock... could be 4 months. the limited amount of bacteria will take a long time to convert the ammonia to nitirite and then nitrite to nitrate.
sounds like the nitrite level is coming down... which means the bacteria are reproducing and converting it to nitrate.. (which should be much higher now)..
you should get a massive algae bloom soon.
the tank has no live rock, only live sand is only 60 days old with 3 fish in it.
a tank with no live rock will take a very long time to complete a cycle.
A 90 gallon with 100lbs of live rock and 100 lbs of live sand will take 3-4 weeks to complete a cycle...
without the live rock... could be 4 months. the limited amount of bacteria will take a long time to convert the ammonia to nitirite and then nitrite to nitrate.
sounds like the nitrite level is coming down... which means the bacteria are reproducing and converting it to nitrate.. (which should be much higher now)..
you should get a massive algae bloom soon.
indigobluetc
Member
Quick off topic question. I see that your running an emperor 400. IS a modified one? If not what filters are you running in it? I have one laying around and thinking of using it on a 20g frag tank..
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2703849
There should be water circulation (via pumped water toward the bottom of the tank) in order to have a sufficiently viable bio filter in the substrate. That is key, to say the least. An adequate substrate of small particle sand is certainly the bulk of any biofilter in most marine aquaria and is certainly superior to any "filters" that humans can invent, imo.
If that does not exist in your system, and all you have is hang on filters, skimmers at the top of the tank, than I'd say that is a contributing factor to your problem.
Doesn't LR usually play a big part in most bio-filter systems? When LR came on the scene, it turned the hobby upside down. Or, do you think LRs ability to deal with nitrates is a big part of the sensation? In a circulation/substrate bio-filter (no LR); what happens to nitrates? With just circulation & substrate; that's really just one step away from the old UG filter (read what Fenner says before you condemn them) . I'm really getting curious and may have learned all the wrong stuff. BTW; I still use UG filters ( Which do not need to be torn down annually, if you know a few tricks. , with big PHs, and HOT filters in my overstocked, 55 gal, no LR, dead coral skeletons, "retro" tank. This tank has been as healthy as any I've ever kept. I've even found a way to keep nitrates down with no more than normal water changes. I don't worry about nitrates; but they can cause a diatom problem, which is not a problem for me either.
http:///forum/post/2703849
There should be water circulation (via pumped water toward the bottom of the tank) in order to have a sufficiently viable bio filter in the substrate. That is key, to say the least. An adequate substrate of small particle sand is certainly the bulk of any biofilter in most marine aquaria and is certainly superior to any "filters" that humans can invent, imo.
If that does not exist in your system, and all you have is hang on filters, skimmers at the top of the tank, than I'd say that is a contributing factor to your problem.
Doesn't LR usually play a big part in most bio-filter systems? When LR came on the scene, it turned the hobby upside down. Or, do you think LRs ability to deal with nitrates is a big part of the sensation? In a circulation/substrate bio-filter (no LR); what happens to nitrates? With just circulation & substrate; that's really just one step away from the old UG filter (read what Fenner says before you condemn them) . I'm really getting curious and may have learned all the wrong stuff. BTW; I still use UG filters ( Which do not need to be torn down annually, if you know a few tricks. , with big PHs, and HOT filters in my overstocked, 55 gal, no LR, dead coral skeletons, "retro" tank. This tank has been as healthy as any I've ever kept. I've even found a way to keep nitrates down with no more than normal water changes. I don't worry about nitrates; but they can cause a diatom problem, which is not a problem for me either.
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by cjworkman
http:///forum/post/2703909
There's your answer.
the tank has no live rock, only live sand is only 60 days old with 3 fish in it.
a tank with no live rock will take a very long time to complete a cycle.
A 90 gallon with 100lbs of live rock and 100 lbs of live sand will take 3-4 weeks to complete a cycle...
without the live rock... could be 4 months. the limited amount of bacteria will take a long time to convert the ammonia to nitirite and then nitrite to nitrate.
sounds like the nitrite level is coming down... which means the bacteria are reproducing and converting it to nitrate.. (which should be much higher now)..
you should get a massive algae bloom soon.
Very possibly true. But, this still leaves the question" If nitrites are "off the chart"; why are the fish doing just fine? I read Beth's comment above saying some folks doubt high nitrite is serious; if that's the case, why worry about it? I did a not-too-scientific experiment years ago (relying on a not-perfect memory here). I was cycling an old big tank to grow out FW angelfish (they paid for my SW addiction). I had undetectable ammonia and significant nitrites. I threw in a dozen or so culled angels and all were dead or seriously stressed within 12 hours or so.. They had the brownish red gills associated with nitrite/ammonia. Ammonia was still at almost zero because I removed the dead fish as they croaked. I had the water re-tested by a chemist friend at a local University Aquaculture facility and my tests were right on: no ammonia, high nitrites. I am not ruling out the remote possibility that something else was involved; but with the gill color, I doubt it.
http:///forum/post/2703909
There's your answer.
the tank has no live rock, only live sand is only 60 days old with 3 fish in it.
a tank with no live rock will take a very long time to complete a cycle.
A 90 gallon with 100lbs of live rock and 100 lbs of live sand will take 3-4 weeks to complete a cycle...
without the live rock... could be 4 months. the limited amount of bacteria will take a long time to convert the ammonia to nitirite and then nitrite to nitrate.
sounds like the nitrite level is coming down... which means the bacteria are reproducing and converting it to nitrate.. (which should be much higher now)..
you should get a massive algae bloom soon.
Very possibly true. But, this still leaves the question" If nitrites are "off the chart"; why are the fish doing just fine? I read Beth's comment above saying some folks doubt high nitrite is serious; if that's the case, why worry about it? I did a not-too-scientific experiment years ago (relying on a not-perfect memory here). I was cycling an old big tank to grow out FW angelfish (they paid for my SW addiction). I had undetectable ammonia and significant nitrites. I threw in a dozen or so culled angels and all were dead or seriously stressed within 12 hours or so.. They had the brownish red gills associated with nitrite/ammonia. Ammonia was still at almost zero because I removed the dead fish as they croaked. I had the water re-tested by a chemist friend at a local University Aquaculture facility and my tests were right on: no ammonia, high nitrites. I am not ruling out the remote possibility that something else was involved; but with the gill color, I doubt it.
srfisher17
Active Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2703759
Yeah, as I remember the the instructions for bio wheels; when they slow down, give them a quick swish in a bucket of tank water, never rub all the gunk off--thats the good bacteria. Also, keep the wheels floating in the tank if you have the filter off for maintenance. Same thing goes for bio-balls and other artificial bio-filtration media.
Here's instructions from the mfg, found at a major online retailers site:
NOTE: DO NOT CLEAN THE BIO-WHEEL(S)! A discolored surface and slowed - even irregular - wheel rotation due to a heavy wheel is normal and desired to achieve the best biological filtration. In fact, the more discolored the surface of the BIO-Wheel, the more ammonia-fighting bacteria are present and working to remove toxic impurities. Any excessive build-up of algae or debris on the BIO-Wheel can be gently rinsed away with room temperature, aquarium-safe water.
http:///forum/post/2703759
Yeah, as I remember the the instructions for bio wheels; when they slow down, give them a quick swish in a bucket of tank water, never rub all the gunk off--thats the good bacteria. Also, keep the wheels floating in the tank if you have the filter off for maintenance. Same thing goes for bio-balls and other artificial bio-filtration media.
Here's instructions from the mfg, found at a major online retailers site:
NOTE: DO NOT CLEAN THE BIO-WHEEL(S)! A discolored surface and slowed - even irregular - wheel rotation due to a heavy wheel is normal and desired to achieve the best biological filtration. In fact, the more discolored the surface of the BIO-Wheel, the more ammonia-fighting bacteria are present and working to remove toxic impurities. Any excessive build-up of algae or debris on the BIO-Wheel can be gently rinsed away with room temperature, aquarium-safe water.
If you are disturbing the substrate to any degree, then you also disturb your biofilter. The downside of keeping a FO only tank is that some mechanical and a lot more human intervention is needed to keep the tank clean. A few pieces of live rock would go a long way, I believe, in helping your system out, even if you don't want to have a tank with a a lot of LR.
The more you can have worms, and other sand dwelling detritivores moving your sandbed, the better (rather than you disturbing the sand bed).
The more you can have worms, and other sand dwelling detritivores moving your sandbed, the better (rather than you disturbing the sand bed).
tr1gger
Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2704116
If you are disturbing the substrate to any degree, then you also disturb your biofilter. The downside of keeping a FO only tank is that some mechanical and a lot more human intervention is needed to keep the tank clean. A few pieces of live rock would go a long way, I believe, in helping your system out, even if you don't want to have a tank with a a lot of LR.
The more you can have worms, and other sand dwelling detritivores moving your sandbed, the better (rather than you disturbing the sand bed).
I can agree there, i would be completely new with LR and have no clue WHERE to even start with curing and what not and can i add LR to a already established tank
http:///forum/post/2704116
If you are disturbing the substrate to any degree, then you also disturb your biofilter. The downside of keeping a FO only tank is that some mechanical and a lot more human intervention is needed to keep the tank clean. A few pieces of live rock would go a long way, I believe, in helping your system out, even if you don't want to have a tank with a a lot of LR.
The more you can have worms, and other sand dwelling detritivores moving your sandbed, the better (rather than you disturbing the sand bed).
I can agree there, i would be completely new with LR and have no clue WHERE to even start with curing and what not and can i add LR to a already established tank