No Sump + No Fuge = Successful Reef

mujtba

Member
I wanted to know if anyone has a successful reef without having a fuge or a sump.
So far im in the 3rd week of my cycle. I have these:
55g Tank
300GPH HOB Filter
300GPH PHs x2
Seaclone 100 Skimmer
85lbs LR
40lbs LS
50lbs Play sand
300W heater
Regular lights (upgrading soon)
can i have a successful tank or do i need all the other fancy smancy stuff? i wanted to keep things as simple as i can..
:sleepy:
 

footbag

Active Member
It is very possible to have a succesful reef without a sump or refugium. IT will require a bit more maitanance, tests and water changes mostly. A sump only adds to the water volume in effect lowering your bioload per gallon. A refugium will reduce your nitrates and add to biodiversity. Nitrates can be controlled with regular weekly water changes. Since you will be using a Seaclone skimmer, I would stay on top of that. Make sure it is cleaned and tuned regularly.
Refugiums and sumps only make the hobby easier. That said, I wouldn't set up a tank without at least a sump. You can place all of your equipment in there including heaters and skimmers. Sumps can also double as a refugium if you put the baffles in the right place.
 

mujtba

Member
ok if i want to make a sump. can I use a 10G tank or is it too small?
also, how do i get the water to and back from the tank to sump??
i was thinking of an overflow to the sump.. and then i guess pump water back to tank?
what if the pump in the sump breaks? i get water spilled all over the place????:scared:
please advise...
 

footbag

Active Member
Your on the right track.
You overflow from your tank down to the sump. A 10g will be fine. Then you use a pump to pump back up to the tank. If you put a whole in the return line at water level, then it will break a syphon and you won't have to worry about leaks. If your pump breaks, water will stop pouring into the overflow.
This will also mean that your water level will be regulated in your sump. In other words, your water level in the tank will stay the same as water evaporates. The water level in the sump will lower. You can add a float switch to the sump, and have it automatically top off your water.
 

smarls

Member
Mujtba,
I don't use a sump or a refugium. I travel quite a bit for work and for fun, and if I had a sump the entire time I was gone I would be worried about spills etc.
I think sumps and fuges have their purpose, no doubt about it, however, but I think you can be very succesful reef without one.
I have a very simple set-up, 55 gallon tank, 260 watts of PC light, HOB skimmer and some powerheads, and it seems to work just fine. When I travel, I just turn the skimmer off, and let the powerheads create the required circulation for movement and for the gas exchange. Thus when I am gone no water leaves or enters the tank - so no chance of a spill.
I would say that with a sump, your tank will definately be prettier, as you will not have the heater etc. actually hanging in the tank. But as long as you are OK performing some extra water changes, then I don't think you need the bells and whistles (although I am jealous of everyone that has them!).
Just my two cents, hope it helps.
Stewart
 

smarls

Member
One other thing...I keep "simple" corals (OK no coral is a simple organism...but you know what I mean).
Ricordias, Zoanthids, LPS (Frogspawn and Hammer) etc. I do not keep any SPS, or clams (lighting issues).
However I understand that some of the harder corals may be less tolerant of water chemistry issues, and so a sump and fuge would probably be great in helping make sure the water is of the best quality.
So, I amend my answer...it depends on what you want to do with your tank?
Stewart
 

mujtba

Member
Stewart, do you have a reef? My tanks in my livin room which is why i cannot have a spill. but im looking into a sump to see how hard it is to make...
Since I would have to sit my seaclone 100 in there, I guess a 10g sump would not be suffice. So I would need atleast a 20G sump, right?
I really dont know what an overflow is, I just heard it so I used the term to look cool.

but i just searched for it, and heres what I found:
CPR CS50 Overflow

For glass or acrylic aquariums up to 60 gal.
Flow rate 300 GPH.
6.5" wide
3/4" bulkhead outflow
Price: $66.00
Alright does the overflow have a pump in it to pump water to the sump, or do I just fill my main tank all the way up with water till it overflows out of that overflow box????
:notsure:
Because if my return pump from the sump pumps slower water, what will happen? im so confused.. i tried searching for sumps in swf but I cannot find a beginners detailed article..
what do you mean a whole in return line to make a syphon.. float switches? the stuff in toilets? ahhhh this is too much to digest...
 

rwhite

Member
We're running a 55 sans sump (unless one considers a canister filter a sump) and refugium. I would call it successful, but as others have said it really depends on what you want in the end. As for us, we had initially began thinking FOWLR to keep it simple. But as I researched I found that a reef was what we really wanted. Still keeping with the "simple" approach, more research was done to find out what corals were "easy" and if they would fit the "outcome" I had projected for ourselves. I think lighting was our biggest expense, we settled for a 65w x 4 pc fixture and the addition of the canister filter (Fluval 304). These being the upgrades from a standard flour. 2 bulb fixture and a HOB Penguin 330 (which we still have running). Didnt upgrade the skimmer, a Prizm, but it seems to be doing fine for the time being. We actually have less LR than you and still have CC for substrate, but I have been removing a little at a time during cleaning/water change. Hope I'm not being long-winded and if you have any ?s please feel free to ask. A qwik run down of our inhabitants: Fish--2 Clarkii clowns (now a mated pair), a Coral Beauty, Neon Dotty, Yellow-tail damsel and a 4-Stripe damsel. Inverts--standard clean up crew:snails, hermits and a brittle star(lost our Sally crab, deciding on a replacement), Shrooms(2 kinds),Rics(2 kinds), GSP, 3 types of Zoos, Button Polyps, Bubble, Toadstool, Favite and 2 BTAs (the org. split). In keeping with the benefits of a refugium, we also keep a type of macro in the DT. Its similar to grape caulerpa, but it dosent go sexual (crossing fingers) and is red. It dosent grow like grape, more like a bush. Meeting with a realtor now, got to go. If you would like pics or anything, let me know.
 

7days

Member
to mujtba: I am starting a nano reef, and I feel the same way. I have a 10 gal. and am about a week away from getting my lighting. I only plan on getting easy stuff (leathers, shrooms, zoos, etc.) And then reading posts like yours until I feel comfortable (or rich) enough to get the "fancy smansy" stuff that the big dogs around here use. Until then, my advice is, only do what you can handle, afford, and understand, then go from there! You can't do this stuff overnight, and if you could it wouldn't be this much fun.
 

angelofish

Member
Someone I know recently set up a 110 w/wet dry. We asked alot of questions at the LFS and this is the info we got.The overflow box is set up so it will stop draining once the water level drops to a certain point.The sump should be big enough to hold the extra water without overflowing.If the pump should start again,the extra water gets pumped back and the water level rises back to the original level.The overflow box doesn't loose the siphon.When filling the sump for the 1st time use the water from the tank.When the pump starts the sump will drain down to the level it needs to operate.Top off the tank if it needs it.The 110 was set up this way in June with no problems as of yet. I have a 55 without a sump of refugium. It looks good but I cant get the nitrate level down to 0.:notsure:
 

ohioreef

Member
mujtba,
If you want to see an example of a "simple" sump/refugium set-up go to http://home.woh.rr.com/mrsphipps/aquarium
There, under Filtration, you can see a pic of my sump/refuge. I used a 30 gallon tank and then divided it using sheets of glass.
I have heard many people discourage the CPR overflows. Apparently you need to have a pump running to make sure that they do not break the siphon. That said, I use an Amiracle overflow and have absolutely no problems. I've been away in excess of a week on several occassions this summer and no floods. I have had the power go out several times and every time there have been no issues.
The "whole" that footbag was speaking of should have been "hole." What you do is drill a small hole in your return line just below the tank water level. Then if the power goes out and water starts siphoning back to the sump, when the hole gets exposed to air it will break the siphon and prevent the water level from dropping any further and flooding your sump.
When the power goes out, my sump gets about 2/3 full of water before the siphon breaks. That leaves me plenty of "extra room" if something doesn't go quite right. :scared:
Hope that this helps you out. Feel free to email me from my webpage if you have further questions and I'll do what I can to help you out.
 
S

salt_hobbi

Guest
Hi I dont know if you have seen my tank in the forums. But I dont got a fuge or a sump And gots a very succesful tank well at least thatss what it looks like to me. Here is a pic of it. All my corals are healthy and fish are also, Ive had the fish except the coral buety angel since I hade my 10 gallon, some time ago.
My Specs:
Rena Filstar XP3 Canister
Back pak 2r with a diy over flow box.
DIY lol

lol Pacific Coast chiller
2PC 50/50's and 2pc actinic's
5 Power Heads
Dont know what else you would wanna know. If you want more pics just ask ill put one more though.
 

viper_930

Active Member
One question: how does the HOB overflow not loose the siphon if it runs dry from the return pump breaking? When the water level raises back up if the pump comes back, then there would still be air on the part of the HOB overflow that curves over the top of the tank.
 
S

salt_hobbi

Guest
I dont know, it just doesnt.
So who cares lol unless its starts to.
 

mujtba

Member
thanx everyone for ur help...
salt hobbi, how big is your tank? how much LR? plz show more pics... :)
wow all this is overwhelming...
:confused: siphons, bubble babbles, PVCs, SPA tubes, ball valves, overflows, etc etc etc..
i mean im good at building things. i have welded pipes, installed breaks in cars, installed chandeliers, installed water supply to fridges, and so on..
but those things are so much simpler than this.. plus theres no 'real' way to do it, and everyone seems to have their own design, which makes it more difficult to do.. i dont know if i should go buy a tank and start drilling places and hope i hit the mark? maybe its easier than it seems.. :notsure:
Phipps, I will definitly email you if i decide to do this.. im just so lost.. i would really need a step by step instructions to do this.. pics would be nice..

let me see the PROS/CONS of a sump and fuge.
SUMP PROS:
hide your equipment
get more water for better bio
SUMP CONS:
pain to build
can flood home
FUGE PROS:
get more beneficial bacteria
get pods n worms
FUGE CONS:
pain to build
can flood home

if i got more LR in my tank, won't that make up for it and keep my nitrates low?
if salthobbi has a successful tank, it seems that a sump and fuge is just an accessory..
jeeeeez luizzzzzzzzzzz :nervous:
 

viper_930

Active Member

Originally posted by salt_hobbi
I dont know, it just doesnt.
So who cares lol unless its starts to.

LOL
But I want to save a bunch of $$$ and make my own HOB overflow box and I want to know how it works so I can make one with that same ability to regain the siphon.
 
S

salt_hobbi

Guest
My tank is a 40 reef and i have over 100lb of live rock actrually a lot over 100 believe me. and my nitrate levels are less then 10 and nitrate of course always 0, PH is always perfect (I use buffer).
 
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