Nope. Not Torture.
- Thread starter uneverno
- Start date
reefraff
Active Member
Bush was a moderate at best. I said way back in 99 when he was paling around with Marc Rocicot from Montana I wouldn't vote for him in the primaries and I didn't. By the time the Montana primary came around the only conservative alternative was Alan Keyes. Not my first choice but he did get my vote.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3056419
I don't mean the question facetiously at all, but by your definition, was Bush a conservative?
Not really. But that question would require a book to answer.
Personally I feel like most in politics are out to make a buck or have a lust for power. They don't have a respect for the office nor the country.
And personally I don't think this was bush. He was very gracious with his political enemies (remember when they unveiled the Clinton portrait?). Never fought back. He did not use his pulpit to promote the conservative movement or really the republican party. (Part of the reason the party is in such disarray.) Not to say that he didn't support Republican candidates and stuff. He just didn't go on TV every month to give a campaign speech.
One of his biggest failures was his public relations. But when I do look at that, I also percieve his failure as a self promoter, as a trait of someone who is serving others vs serving himself. The only problem with that is that, he failed to make the connection that in promoting and selling himself he was promoting and selling the republican party. And remember he had very strong conservative support.
But in the sense of, did he do what he should have done to promote long term the constituency that voted him into office. No.
Now policy wise, he was a mixed bag. His foreign policy was very pro-american and that evolved to meaning conservative. (ask zell miller and liberman what happens when you support our country and not the democratic party, and ask Kerry what happens when you think our troops are raping the woman and riding off on their horses, you get to run for president) And dispite the 7 year drum beat of failure from the press and the dems, it worked. You had countries volentarily giving up their weapons programs. You have a country liberated from a dictator who used WMD's on is own people. Who filled mass graves.
Domestically, he cut taxes for everyone, good check. The problem was he reached across the isle, then you get these rediculous spending budgets. But like I said earlier Obama's spending makes Bush look like a first grader counting pennies to pay the lunch lady.
Then you have him nominating people for economic positions that aren't from Freedman's school of economic thought, and like Keynes a little too much. And that got him way screwed up late in his administration.
The reality is on most issues he was fairly moderate, minus killing babies, and cutting taxes.
http:///forum/post/3056419
I don't mean the question facetiously at all, but by your definition, was Bush a conservative?
Not really. But that question would require a book to answer.
Personally I feel like most in politics are out to make a buck or have a lust for power. They don't have a respect for the office nor the country.
And personally I don't think this was bush. He was very gracious with his political enemies (remember when they unveiled the Clinton portrait?). Never fought back. He did not use his pulpit to promote the conservative movement or really the republican party. (Part of the reason the party is in such disarray.) Not to say that he didn't support Republican candidates and stuff. He just didn't go on TV every month to give a campaign speech.
One of his biggest failures was his public relations. But when I do look at that, I also percieve his failure as a self promoter, as a trait of someone who is serving others vs serving himself. The only problem with that is that, he failed to make the connection that in promoting and selling himself he was promoting and selling the republican party. And remember he had very strong conservative support.
But in the sense of, did he do what he should have done to promote long term the constituency that voted him into office. No.
Now policy wise, he was a mixed bag. His foreign policy was very pro-american and that evolved to meaning conservative. (ask zell miller and liberman what happens when you support our country and not the democratic party, and ask Kerry what happens when you think our troops are raping the woman and riding off on their horses, you get to run for president) And dispite the 7 year drum beat of failure from the press and the dems, it worked. You had countries volentarily giving up their weapons programs. You have a country liberated from a dictator who used WMD's on is own people. Who filled mass graves.
Domestically, he cut taxes for everyone, good check. The problem was he reached across the isle, then you get these rediculous spending budgets. But like I said earlier Obama's spending makes Bush look like a first grader counting pennies to pay the lunch lady.
Then you have him nominating people for economic positions that aren't from Freedman's school of economic thought, and like Keynes a little too much. And that got him way screwed up late in his administration.
The reality is on most issues he was fairly moderate, minus killing babies, and cutting taxes.
uneverno
Active Member
Fair enough. In large part I agree.
No offence - I asked the question because I wanted to see where you stood on party politics.
I personally find Bush to have been moderately liberal.
That's the state of the Republican party at this point. They are unable to keep it together because they call themselves Conservatives, and behave in almost no way conservatively. (Again, no offence, but I don't discuss abortion - it's too inflammatory, nobody from either side is gonna convince anyone otherwise, and it just gets stoopid ugly from there.)
Believe it or not though, I'd vote for an actual conservative from time to time because, if nothing else, our spending has gotten out of control. The R's are of little help in the matter in that they are inclined to spend only slightly less, but deficit spend they will. They just tend to borrow rather than print. In the end however, the result is the same - our grandchildren will be paying our indiscretions back - I.e. we have become Rome, Venice, Genoa, Spain and Britain, historically speaking.
I voted Ron Paul in the Presidential Primary, because I believe he was the only candidate who understood fiscal policy vis a vis the Constitution.
Meantime, let's hope next week's bond issue goes better than currently anticipated...
No offence - I asked the question because I wanted to see where you stood on party politics.
I personally find Bush to have been moderately liberal.
That's the state of the Republican party at this point. They are unable to keep it together because they call themselves Conservatives, and behave in almost no way conservatively. (Again, no offence, but I don't discuss abortion - it's too inflammatory, nobody from either side is gonna convince anyone otherwise, and it just gets stoopid ugly from there.)
Believe it or not though, I'd vote for an actual conservative from time to time because, if nothing else, our spending has gotten out of control. The R's are of little help in the matter in that they are inclined to spend only slightly less, but deficit spend they will. They just tend to borrow rather than print. In the end however, the result is the same - our grandchildren will be paying our indiscretions back - I.e. we have become Rome, Venice, Genoa, Spain and Britain, historically speaking.
I voted Ron Paul in the Presidential Primary, because I believe he was the only candidate who understood fiscal policy vis a vis the Constitution.
Meantime, let's hope next week's bond issue goes better than currently anticipated...
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3057207
Fair enough. In large part I agree.
No offence - I asked the question because I wanted to see where you stood on party politics.
I personally find Bush to have been moderately liberal.
That's the state of the Republican party at this point. They are unable to keep it together because they call themselves Conservatives, and behave in almost no way conservatively. (Again, no offence, but I don't discuss abortion - it's too inflammatory, nobody from either side is gonna convince anyone otherwise, and it just gets stoopid ugly from there.)
Believe it or not though, I'd vote for an actual conservative from time to time because, if nothing else, our spending has gotten out of control. The R's are of little help in the matter in that they are inclined to spend only slightly less, but deficit spend they will. They just tend to borrow rather than print. In the end however, the result is the same - our grandchildren will be paying our indiscretions back - I.e. we have become Rome, Venice, Genoa, Spain and Britain, historically speaking.
I voted Ron Paul in the Presidential Primary, because I believe he was the only candidate who understood fiscal policy vis a vis the Constitution.
Meantime, let's hope next week's bond issue goes better than currently anticipated...
I love Ron Paul, minus his stance on the war. But his opposition is rooted in his libertarian philosophy. Which I can accept. But it is still wrong.
As far as party politics go. The republicans are worthless right now. But that is because they don't stand for anything. They stand for whatever the dems come up with but slightly modified to point it a little right.
At this point the powers are trying to abandon the "conservative."
But in my opinion, you're never going to have a viable 3rd party. So I don't think separation I think reform.
http:///forum/post/3057207
Fair enough. In large part I agree.
No offence - I asked the question because I wanted to see where you stood on party politics.
I personally find Bush to have been moderately liberal.
That's the state of the Republican party at this point. They are unable to keep it together because they call themselves Conservatives, and behave in almost no way conservatively. (Again, no offence, but I don't discuss abortion - it's too inflammatory, nobody from either side is gonna convince anyone otherwise, and it just gets stoopid ugly from there.)
Believe it or not though, I'd vote for an actual conservative from time to time because, if nothing else, our spending has gotten out of control. The R's are of little help in the matter in that they are inclined to spend only slightly less, but deficit spend they will. They just tend to borrow rather than print. In the end however, the result is the same - our grandchildren will be paying our indiscretions back - I.e. we have become Rome, Venice, Genoa, Spain and Britain, historically speaking.
I voted Ron Paul in the Presidential Primary, because I believe he was the only candidate who understood fiscal policy vis a vis the Constitution.
Meantime, let's hope next week's bond issue goes better than currently anticipated...
I love Ron Paul, minus his stance on the war. But his opposition is rooted in his libertarian philosophy. Which I can accept. But it is still wrong.
As far as party politics go. The republicans are worthless right now. But that is because they don't stand for anything. They stand for whatever the dems come up with but slightly modified to point it a little right.
At this point the powers are trying to abandon the "conservative."
But in my opinion, you're never going to have a viable 3rd party. So I don't think separation I think reform.
uneverno
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3057304
I love Ron Paul, minus his stance on the war. But his opposition is rooted in his libertarian philosophy. Which I can accept. But it is still wrong.
I'll buy that to an extent. I agree w/ his stance on the war though, and I also thing that gov't has a legitimate role in protecting the people from corporate abuse - e.g. child labor laws, environmental protection, etc.
The failing there lies in that the agencies set up to provide those protections are populated w/ senior members of the industries they're supposed to guard us against. Ends up being a Fox/Henhouse situation.
As far as party politics go. The republicans are worthless right now. But that is because they don't stand for anything. They stand for whatever the dems come up with but slightly modified to point it a little right.
At this point the powers are trying to abandon the "conservative."
But in my opinion, you're never going to have a viable 3rd party. So I don't think separation I think reform.
That is a tough one. I'd love to see a viable 3rd (which I would actually classify as a 2nd), 4th, 5th party, etc.
I'm not sure on separation vs. reform. I have a hard time believing reform is possible at this point. I've been voting for it w/in the system since I was able to (1980), and it hasn't gotten me anywhere.
Given our respective differences, from your perspective, perhaps that's a good thing, but I'd venture to guess you haven't seen things move in your favor during that time either.
To me, gridlock is a better solution at this point than the current state of affairs.
As such, my voting strategy is typically to cast my ballot for the opposite party in Congress of that which resides in the White House. (I.e. if the Legislative and Executive branches are fighting each other, there's less time left over to screw me.)
http:///forum/post/3057304
I love Ron Paul, minus his stance on the war. But his opposition is rooted in his libertarian philosophy. Which I can accept. But it is still wrong.
I'll buy that to an extent. I agree w/ his stance on the war though, and I also thing that gov't has a legitimate role in protecting the people from corporate abuse - e.g. child labor laws, environmental protection, etc.
The failing there lies in that the agencies set up to provide those protections are populated w/ senior members of the industries they're supposed to guard us against. Ends up being a Fox/Henhouse situation.
As far as party politics go. The republicans are worthless right now. But that is because they don't stand for anything. They stand for whatever the dems come up with but slightly modified to point it a little right.
At this point the powers are trying to abandon the "conservative."
But in my opinion, you're never going to have a viable 3rd party. So I don't think separation I think reform.
That is a tough one. I'd love to see a viable 3rd (which I would actually classify as a 2nd), 4th, 5th party, etc.
I'm not sure on separation vs. reform. I have a hard time believing reform is possible at this point. I've been voting for it w/in the system since I was able to (1980), and it hasn't gotten me anywhere.
Given our respective differences, from your perspective, perhaps that's a good thing, but I'd venture to guess you haven't seen things move in your favor during that time either.
To me, gridlock is a better solution at this point than the current state of affairs.
As such, my voting strategy is typically to cast my ballot for the opposite party in Congress of that which resides in the White House. (I.e. if the Legislative and Executive branches are fighting each other, there's less time left over to screw me.)
taznut
Active Member
parties are a joke... they preach from one platform, do what they want, and try to justify how that fits what their party stands for...
Bush destroyed this country; the world hates us, he used the constitution as toilet paper, ran our economy in the ground, etc all while failing to inform the American people what was going on... (lets not forget no child left behind and the patriot act)
everyone had probably guessed I am left winged, for the most part this is true... i am a lot farther when it comes to things like gov't control over "free trade" i believe the govt is there to protect everyone and not just the rich... R's completely ignore the rich, allow them to do what ever they want and encourage them to move their businesses out of the country because they can make more... TRICKLE DOWN does not work and it seems to be the R's response for anything related to employment (health care, taxes, minimum wage, etc)
speaking of min wage, what is it now??? i think 7.25/hr, idk where they get their numbers but how is some one that works suppose to live off that... i think the govt needs to start supporting the little guy more, the big guy has enough money... it needs to be a lot easier to unionize
and people need to learn what a union is about before automatically being against them, i have heard so many people against unions for trivial reasons it is insane... im not saying there aren't good reasons to disagree with having them but know something... Friday last week my employer posted a sign in the break room asking for everyone to call their senator and vote against the "The employee forced choice act", protect your right to a secrete ballot... this to me shows this act will work since they do not want it through but, to be quite honest, most of the people that i work with will be to stupid to question it... i know other big corporations are doing the same...
i guess with all this off topic ranting what i am trying to say is that the working class is disappearing... this seems to be the R's goal (although i dont know how they are going to stay rich without their workers)... Obama is moving closer to socialism, my only complaint is that he is moving too slow... when my parents were born, only one of their parents had to work to support the family, pay the morgage, buy a car, etc... now it is nearly impossible to do that with 2 jobs... my gf and I just finished school and cant find jobs because there are so few, the ones out there want people with experience (and there are so many unemployed this is now possible)... i make a fairly good hourly rate for around here, we both have car payments and live in an apartment because we can't get a loan for a house (even though we both have credit scores in around 740) because of our income...
this is y i consider myself to be left winged... its time for the middle class to stand up before we are erased... I'm not saying this to irritate people but there are 3 types of Republicans: the 3 R's, the rich (they have a reason to be, the gov't protects them), the redneck (the Republicans wrap everything in the flag "god bless America), and the retarded (the people who know nothing about politics)...
Bush destroyed this country; the world hates us, he used the constitution as toilet paper, ran our economy in the ground, etc all while failing to inform the American people what was going on... (lets not forget no child left behind and the patriot act)
everyone had probably guessed I am left winged, for the most part this is true... i am a lot farther when it comes to things like gov't control over "free trade" i believe the govt is there to protect everyone and not just the rich... R's completely ignore the rich, allow them to do what ever they want and encourage them to move their businesses out of the country because they can make more... TRICKLE DOWN does not work and it seems to be the R's response for anything related to employment (health care, taxes, minimum wage, etc)
speaking of min wage, what is it now??? i think 7.25/hr, idk where they get their numbers but how is some one that works suppose to live off that... i think the govt needs to start supporting the little guy more, the big guy has enough money... it needs to be a lot easier to unionize
and people need to learn what a union is about before automatically being against them, i have heard so many people against unions for trivial reasons it is insane... im not saying there aren't good reasons to disagree with having them but know something... Friday last week my employer posted a sign in the break room asking for everyone to call their senator and vote against the "The employee forced choice act", protect your right to a secrete ballot... this to me shows this act will work since they do not want it through but, to be quite honest, most of the people that i work with will be to stupid to question it... i know other big corporations are doing the same...
i guess with all this off topic ranting what i am trying to say is that the working class is disappearing... this seems to be the R's goal (although i dont know how they are going to stay rich without their workers)... Obama is moving closer to socialism, my only complaint is that he is moving too slow... when my parents were born, only one of their parents had to work to support the family, pay the morgage, buy a car, etc... now it is nearly impossible to do that with 2 jobs... my gf and I just finished school and cant find jobs because there are so few, the ones out there want people with experience (and there are so many unemployed this is now possible)... i make a fairly good hourly rate for around here, we both have car payments and live in an apartment because we can't get a loan for a house (even though we both have credit scores in around 740) because of our income...
this is y i consider myself to be left winged... its time for the middle class to stand up before we are erased... I'm not saying this to irritate people but there are 3 types of Republicans: the 3 R's, the rich (they have a reason to be, the gov't protects them), the redneck (the Republicans wrap everything in the flag "god bless America), and the retarded (the people who know nothing about politics)...
taznut
Active Member
we all need to pay more taxes, but anyone that is working fulltime (regardless the job) should be able to pay more taxes to support the gov't and still be able to live a decent life... if we are not going to make more, then tax the ____ out of the people who are making these insane amounts so the rest of us can keep as much of the money we currently earn...
sorry, was explaining my side and got a little side tracked, lol...
sorry, was explaining my side and got a little side tracked, lol...
reefraff
Active Member
We all need to pay more taxes? That is as crazy as saying Bush ruined the country. This country has been on a long steady decline since Johnson's great society crap.
The government wastes a lot of money. It also spends money it doesn't have to and I will use myself as an example.
I am disabled. I get a little over 1400.00 a month from Social Security. There is no way I could return to my previous occupation. I really need to keep my feet up to keep my legs from swelling. But I spend hours researching lighting and answering questions about T5 lighting on another board. There has got to be some government jobs I could easily do from home. I am GREAT with customer service (Probably eliminates me from consideration for a govt. job). Instead of paying me 1400.00 a month why not pay me a couple grand, set me up with a computer and phone line and let me take one of those jobs. I would gladly answer the phone or e-mails 8 hours a day. I fell into the whole lighting guru crap by looking for something to do all day.
I'd tried to find a job but not many people will let you work from a recliner
Unfortunately my work experience is all related to service work that requires a lot of bending and stooping. I tried to get them to train me in web development but they wouldn't go for it so here I sit
The government wastes a lot of money. It also spends money it doesn't have to and I will use myself as an example.
I am disabled. I get a little over 1400.00 a month from Social Security. There is no way I could return to my previous occupation. I really need to keep my feet up to keep my legs from swelling. But I spend hours researching lighting and answering questions about T5 lighting on another board. There has got to be some government jobs I could easily do from home. I am GREAT with customer service (Probably eliminates me from consideration for a govt. job). Instead of paying me 1400.00 a month why not pay me a couple grand, set me up with a computer and phone line and let me take one of those jobs. I would gladly answer the phone or e-mails 8 hours a day. I fell into the whole lighting guru crap by looking for something to do all day.
I'd tried to find a job but not many people will let you work from a recliner
Unfortunately my work experience is all related to service work that requires a lot of bending and stooping. I tried to get them to train me in web development but they wouldn't go for it so here I sit
taznut
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3058164
We all need to pay more taxes? That is as crazy as saying Bush ruined the country. This country has been on a long steady decline since Johnson's great society crap.
The government wastes a lot of money. It also spends money it doesn't have to and I will use myself as an example.
I am disabled. I get a little over 1400.00 a month from Social Security. There is no way I could return to my previous occupation. I really need to keep my feet up to keep my legs from swelling. But I spend hours researching lighting and answering questions about T5 lighting on another board. There has got to be some government jobs I could easily do from home. I am GREAT with customer service (Probably eliminates me from consideration for a govt. job). Instead of paying me 1400.00 a month why not pay me a couple grand, set me up with a computer and phone line and let me take one of those jobs. I would gladly answer the phone or e-mails 8 hours a day. I fell into the whole lighting guru crap by looking for something to do all day.
I'd tried to find a job but not many people will let you work from a recliner Unfortunately my work experience is all related to service work that requires a lot of bending and stooping. I tried to get them to train me in web development but they wouldn't go for it so here I sit
i agree that the country wastes a lot of money... and with your example it seems that it would make sense for the gov't to help YOU get a job like this... but think of the people that would take advantage of this system... i think it would be ideal for a system to do something like you suggest but I think it would cost more than it saves (the gov't would have to set up the system and then monitor it to some extent to make sure the people, working from home with no supervisors, are doing what they are suppose to be doing)...
as for the "more taxes" comment, i think we need more gov't and they need to do a lot more than they are doing... we need more regulations and more oversight of just about everything business related... it seems to be human nature for a lot of people to screw over co-workers, and in some cases, the people below them to advance themselves (either with promotions or bonuses)...
for example, i do overnight stocking, we basically have to stock the truck while the store is closed... if they are busy and we get big/multiple trucks we are there for 10-11 hrs... but if it is a small truck we are to be out in 7hrs (there are plenty of other things to do, we wouldnt be wasting time) sometimes we were just told not to come in... this is all done to "save payroll hours" which is part of what is considered when the managements bonuses are calculated... these people already make 3-4x what we make and then get a bonus at the end of the year that is well over what we earn... and they are cutting our hours (and pay checks) to get more...
http:///forum/post/3058164
We all need to pay more taxes? That is as crazy as saying Bush ruined the country. This country has been on a long steady decline since Johnson's great society crap.
The government wastes a lot of money. It also spends money it doesn't have to and I will use myself as an example.
I am disabled. I get a little over 1400.00 a month from Social Security. There is no way I could return to my previous occupation. I really need to keep my feet up to keep my legs from swelling. But I spend hours researching lighting and answering questions about T5 lighting on another board. There has got to be some government jobs I could easily do from home. I am GREAT with customer service (Probably eliminates me from consideration for a govt. job). Instead of paying me 1400.00 a month why not pay me a couple grand, set me up with a computer and phone line and let me take one of those jobs. I would gladly answer the phone or e-mails 8 hours a day. I fell into the whole lighting guru crap by looking for something to do all day.
I'd tried to find a job but not many people will let you work from a recliner
Unfortunately my work experience is all related to service work that requires a lot of bending and stooping. I tried to get them to train me in web development but they wouldn't go for it so here I sit
i agree that the country wastes a lot of money... and with your example it seems that it would make sense for the gov't to help YOU get a job like this... but think of the people that would take advantage of this system... i think it would be ideal for a system to do something like you suggest but I think it would cost more than it saves (the gov't would have to set up the system and then monitor it to some extent to make sure the people, working from home with no supervisors, are doing what they are suppose to be doing)...
as for the "more taxes" comment, i think we need more gov't and they need to do a lot more than they are doing... we need more regulations and more oversight of just about everything business related... it seems to be human nature for a lot of people to screw over co-workers, and in some cases, the people below them to advance themselves (either with promotions or bonuses)...
for example, i do overnight stocking, we basically have to stock the truck while the store is closed... if they are busy and we get big/multiple trucks we are there for 10-11 hrs... but if it is a small truck we are to be out in 7hrs (there are plenty of other things to do, we wouldnt be wasting time) sometimes we were just told not to come in... this is all done to "save payroll hours" which is part of what is considered when the managements bonuses are calculated... these people already make 3-4x what we make and then get a bonus at the end of the year that is well over what we earn... and they are cutting our hours (and pay checks) to get more...
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058255
i agree that the country wastes a lot of money... and with your example it seems that it would make sense for the gov't to help YOU get a job like this... but think of the people that would take advantage of this system... i think it would be ideal for a system to do something like you suggest but I think it would cost more than it saves (the gov't would have to set up the system and then monitor it to some extent to make sure the people, working from home with no supervisors, are doing what they are suppose to be doing)...
as for the "more taxes" comment, i think we need more gov't and they need to do a lot more than they are doing... we need more regulations and more oversight of just about everything business related... it seems to be human nature for a lot of people to screw over co-workers, and in some cases, the people below them to advance themselves (either with promotions or bonuses)...
for example, i do overnight stocking, we basically have to stock the truck while the store is closed... if they are busy and we get big/multiple trucks we are there for 10-11 hrs... but if it is a small truck we are to be out in 7hrs (there are plenty of other things to do, we wouldnt be wasting time) sometimes we were just told not to come in... this is all done to "save payroll hours" which is part of what is considered when the managements bonuses are calculated... these people already make 3-4x what we make and then get a bonus at the end of the year that is well over what we earn... and they are cutting our hours (and pay checks) to get more...
The reason the US was so successful is because the capitalist system takes advantage of a basic human trait. You can call it greed or competitiveness but in either case it works. The government has no business setting wages period. I would have no issue with limiting the salary range a business can write off as a business expense but lets face it, there are people who are worth millions and others who aren't worth minimum wage. As far as enforcement I look at it like gun laws. There are plenty on the books we just need to enforce them right. Step one would be to prohibit employees of any company subject to direct government regulation from making campaign donations to federal campaigns. I don't think the fact that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd where the biggest defenders of Fanny and Freddie, blocking legislation to increase oversight of them while also being the two biggest recipients of campaign donations from them was a coincidence.
One very easy way to curb political corruption would be to limit campaign donations to people eligible to vote for the particular candidate. Of course Congress would have to vote to cut their gravy train, like that's going to happen.
As far as my situation goes there are many companies that allow employees to work from home, It is not too difficult to monitor people's activities. Be pretty hard to game that system. I think the savings would easily dwarf any fraud. I think my raw payment is just over 1500.00 bucks a month right now before the medicare is taken out and I wasn't making big bucks when I went down, I am sure there are people making a lot more than me. I don't know the number of people who are on SS disability but I would bet 20% or so are in a similar situation to mine. I think the savings would be significant.
Another area to look at would be the armed forces. I don't think you could really use them to replace other government employees but there has got to be a lot of down time between training and such. I think the government should look at contracting out service people with appropriate job skills. I don't think that would be a good move with the current unemployment situation but once the economy is moving again why not. Perhaps they could use part of the money to give the troops better pay.
http:///forum/post/3058255
i agree that the country wastes a lot of money... and with your example it seems that it would make sense for the gov't to help YOU get a job like this... but think of the people that would take advantage of this system... i think it would be ideal for a system to do something like you suggest but I think it would cost more than it saves (the gov't would have to set up the system and then monitor it to some extent to make sure the people, working from home with no supervisors, are doing what they are suppose to be doing)...
as for the "more taxes" comment, i think we need more gov't and they need to do a lot more than they are doing... we need more regulations and more oversight of just about everything business related... it seems to be human nature for a lot of people to screw over co-workers, and in some cases, the people below them to advance themselves (either with promotions or bonuses)...
for example, i do overnight stocking, we basically have to stock the truck while the store is closed... if they are busy and we get big/multiple trucks we are there for 10-11 hrs... but if it is a small truck we are to be out in 7hrs (there are plenty of other things to do, we wouldnt be wasting time) sometimes we were just told not to come in... this is all done to "save payroll hours" which is part of what is considered when the managements bonuses are calculated... these people already make 3-4x what we make and then get a bonus at the end of the year that is well over what we earn... and they are cutting our hours (and pay checks) to get more...
The reason the US was so successful is because the capitalist system takes advantage of a basic human trait. You can call it greed or competitiveness but in either case it works. The government has no business setting wages period. I would have no issue with limiting the salary range a business can write off as a business expense but lets face it, there are people who are worth millions and others who aren't worth minimum wage. As far as enforcement I look at it like gun laws. There are plenty on the books we just need to enforce them right. Step one would be to prohibit employees of any company subject to direct government regulation from making campaign donations to federal campaigns. I don't think the fact that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd where the biggest defenders of Fanny and Freddie, blocking legislation to increase oversight of them while also being the two biggest recipients of campaign donations from them was a coincidence.
One very easy way to curb political corruption would be to limit campaign donations to people eligible to vote for the particular candidate. Of course Congress would have to vote to cut their gravy train, like that's going to happen.
As far as my situation goes there are many companies that allow employees to work from home, It is not too difficult to monitor people's activities. Be pretty hard to game that system. I think the savings would easily dwarf any fraud. I think my raw payment is just over 1500.00 bucks a month right now before the medicare is taken out and I wasn't making big bucks when I went down, I am sure there are people making a lot more than me. I don't know the number of people who are on SS disability but I would bet 20% or so are in a similar situation to mine. I think the savings would be significant.
Another area to look at would be the armed forces. I don't think you could really use them to replace other government employees but there has got to be a lot of down time between training and such. I think the government should look at contracting out service people with appropriate job skills. I don't think that would be a good move with the current unemployment situation but once the economy is moving again why not. Perhaps they could use part of the money to give the troops better pay.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058115
parties are a joke... they preach from one platform, do what they want, and try to justify how that fits what their party stands for...
Bush destroyed this country; the world hates us, he used the constitution as toilet paper, ran our economy in the ground, etc all while failing to inform the American people what was going on... (lets not forget no child left behind and the patriot act)
everyone had probably guessed I am left winged, for the most part this is true... i am a lot farther when it comes to things like gov't control over "free trade" i believe the govt is there to protect everyone and not just the rich... R's completely ignore the rich, allow them to do what ever they want and encourage them to move their businesses out of the country because they can make more... TRICKLE DOWN does not work and it seems to be the R's response for anything related to employment (health care, taxes, minimum wage, etc)
speaking of min wage, what is it now??? i think 7.25/hr, idk where they get their numbers but how is some one that works suppose to live off that... i think the govt needs to start supporting the little guy more, the big guy has enough money... it needs to be a lot easier to unionize
and people need to learn what a union is about before automatically being against them, i have heard so many people against unions for trivial reasons it is insane... im not saying there aren't good reasons to disagree with having them but know something... Friday last week my employer posted a sign in the break room asking for everyone to call their senator and vote against the "The employee forced choice act", protect your right to a secrete ballot... this to me shows this act will work since they do not want it through but, to be quite honest, most of the people that i work with will be to stupid to question it... i know other big corporations are doing the same...
i guess with all this off topic ranting what i am trying to say is that the working class is disappearing... this seems to be the R's goal (although i dont know how they are going to stay rich without their workers)... Obama is moving closer to socialism, my only complaint is that he is moving too slow... when my parents were born, only one of their parents had to work to support the family, pay the morgage, buy a car, etc... now it is nearly impossible to do that with 2 jobs... my gf and I just finished school and cant find jobs because there are so few, the ones out there want people with experience (and there are so many unemployed this is now possible)... i make a fairly good hourly rate for around here, we both have car payments and live in an apartment because we can't get a loan for a house (even though we both have credit scores in around 740) because of our income...
this is y i consider myself to be left winged... its time for the middle class to stand up before we are erased... I'm not saying this to irritate people but there are 3 types of Republicans: the 3 R's, the rich (they have a reason to be, the gov't protects them), the redneck (the Republicans wrap everything in the flag "god bless America), and the retarded (the people who know nothing about politics)...
lol people like you voting is what is wrong with this country...
http:///forum/post/3058115
parties are a joke... they preach from one platform, do what they want, and try to justify how that fits what their party stands for...
Bush destroyed this country; the world hates us, he used the constitution as toilet paper, ran our economy in the ground, etc all while failing to inform the American people what was going on... (lets not forget no child left behind and the patriot act)
everyone had probably guessed I am left winged, for the most part this is true... i am a lot farther when it comes to things like gov't control over "free trade" i believe the govt is there to protect everyone and not just the rich... R's completely ignore the rich, allow them to do what ever they want and encourage them to move their businesses out of the country because they can make more... TRICKLE DOWN does not work and it seems to be the R's response for anything related to employment (health care, taxes, minimum wage, etc)
speaking of min wage, what is it now??? i think 7.25/hr, idk where they get their numbers but how is some one that works suppose to live off that... i think the govt needs to start supporting the little guy more, the big guy has enough money... it needs to be a lot easier to unionize
and people need to learn what a union is about before automatically being against them, i have heard so many people against unions for trivial reasons it is insane... im not saying there aren't good reasons to disagree with having them but know something... Friday last week my employer posted a sign in the break room asking for everyone to call their senator and vote against the "The employee forced choice act", protect your right to a secrete ballot... this to me shows this act will work since they do not want it through but, to be quite honest, most of the people that i work with will be to stupid to question it... i know other big corporations are doing the same...
i guess with all this off topic ranting what i am trying to say is that the working class is disappearing... this seems to be the R's goal (although i dont know how they are going to stay rich without their workers)... Obama is moving closer to socialism, my only complaint is that he is moving too slow... when my parents were born, only one of their parents had to work to support the family, pay the morgage, buy a car, etc... now it is nearly impossible to do that with 2 jobs... my gf and I just finished school and cant find jobs because there are so few, the ones out there want people with experience (and there are so many unemployed this is now possible)... i make a fairly good hourly rate for around here, we both have car payments and live in an apartment because we can't get a loan for a house (even though we both have credit scores in around 740) because of our income...
this is y i consider myself to be left winged... its time for the middle class to stand up before we are erased... I'm not saying this to irritate people but there are 3 types of Republicans: the 3 R's, the rich (they have a reason to be, the gov't protects them), the redneck (the Republicans wrap everything in the flag "god bless America), and the retarded (the people who know nothing about politics)...
lol people like you voting is what is wrong with this country...
uneverno
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3058481
lol people like you voting is what is wrong with this country...
How so?
http:///forum/post/3058481
lol people like you voting is what is wrong with this country...
How so?
stdreb27
Active Member
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058115
parties are a joke... they preach from one platform, do what they want, and try to justify how that fits what their party stands for...
Bush destroyed this country; the world hates us, he used the constitution as toilet paper, ran our economy in the ground, etc all while failing to inform the American people what was going on... (lets not forget no child left behind and the patriot act)
everyone had probably guessed I am left winged, for the most part this is true... i am a lot farther when it comes to things like gov't control over "free trade" i believe the govt is there to protect everyone and not just the rich... R's completely ignore the rich, allow them to do what ever they want and encourage them to move their businesses out of the country because they can make more... TRICKLE DOWN does not work and it seems to be the R's response for anything related to employment (health care, taxes, minimum wage, etc)
speaking of min wage, what is it now??? i think 7.25/hr, idk where they get their numbers but how is some one that works suppose to live off that... i think the govt needs to start supporting the little guy more, the big guy has enough money... it needs to be a lot easier to unionize
and people need to learn what a union is about before automatically being against them, i have heard so many people against unions for trivial reasons it is insane... im not saying there aren't good reasons to disagree with having them but know something... Friday last week my employer posted a sign in the break room asking for everyone to call their senator and vote against the "The employee forced choice act", protect your right to a secrete ballot... this to me shows this act will work since they do not want it through but, to be quite honest, most of the people that i work with will be to stupid to question it... i know other big corporations are doing the same...
i guess with all this off topic ranting what i am trying to say is that the working class is disappearing... this seems to be the R's goal (although i dont know how they are going to stay rich without their workers)... Obama is moving closer to socialism, my only complaint is that he is moving too slow... when my parents were born, only one of their parents had to work to support the family, pay the morgage, buy a car, etc... now it is nearly impossible to do that with 2 jobs... my gf and I just finished school and cant find jobs because there are so few, the ones out there want people with experience (and there are so many unemployed this is now possible)... i make a fairly good hourly rate for around here, we both have car payments and live in an apartment because we can't get a loan for a house (even though we both have credit scores in around 740) because of our income...
this is y i consider myself to be left winged... its time for the middle class to stand up before we are erased... I'm not saying this to irritate people but there are 3 types of Republicans: the 3 R's, the rich (they have a reason to be, the gov't protects them), the redneck (the Republicans wrap everything in the flag "god bless America), and the retarded (the people who know nothing about politics)...
ote-container_container">
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3058894
How so?
ok fine, I won't spend a huge amount of time on this. Because imo this is the quinticential result liberal ideology and what you get for believing what democrats say.
first off, in the greatest country on the planet, he doesn't think he can make it.
Second, he is prejudice, and hateful (redneck and retard?)
3- HE thinks the world hates us and Bush destroyed the United States. (then this is great links to no child left behind a "bipartisan" bill that Kennedy wrote)
4. Move toward socialism?
But quite frankly, anyone even with our socialist president, who doesn't see the USA as one of the best if not the best place to go where your limits are what you place on yourself, is part of the problem.
But I don't get this, Taznuts should be extatic, you have a president today who thinks exactly like Taznuts. He agrees with everything you just wrote.
http:///forum/post/3058115
parties are a joke... they preach from one platform, do what they want, and try to justify how that fits what their party stands for...
Bush destroyed this country; the world hates us, he used the constitution as toilet paper, ran our economy in the ground, etc all while failing to inform the American people what was going on... (lets not forget no child left behind and the patriot act)
everyone had probably guessed I am left winged, for the most part this is true... i am a lot farther when it comes to things like gov't control over "free trade" i believe the govt is there to protect everyone and not just the rich... R's completely ignore the rich, allow them to do what ever they want and encourage them to move their businesses out of the country because they can make more... TRICKLE DOWN does not work and it seems to be the R's response for anything related to employment (health care, taxes, minimum wage, etc)
speaking of min wage, what is it now??? i think 7.25/hr, idk where they get their numbers but how is some one that works suppose to live off that... i think the govt needs to start supporting the little guy more, the big guy has enough money... it needs to be a lot easier to unionize
and people need to learn what a union is about before automatically being against them, i have heard so many people against unions for trivial reasons it is insane... im not saying there aren't good reasons to disagree with having them but know something... Friday last week my employer posted a sign in the break room asking for everyone to call their senator and vote against the "The employee forced choice act", protect your right to a secrete ballot... this to me shows this act will work since they do not want it through but, to be quite honest, most of the people that i work with will be to stupid to question it... i know other big corporations are doing the same...
i guess with all this off topic ranting what i am trying to say is that the working class is disappearing... this seems to be the R's goal (although i dont know how they are going to stay rich without their workers)... Obama is moving closer to socialism, my only complaint is that he is moving too slow... when my parents were born, only one of their parents had to work to support the family, pay the morgage, buy a car, etc... now it is nearly impossible to do that with 2 jobs... my gf and I just finished school and cant find jobs because there are so few, the ones out there want people with experience (and there are so many unemployed this is now possible)... i make a fairly good hourly rate for around here, we both have car payments and live in an apartment because we can't get a loan for a house (even though we both have credit scores in around 740) because of our income...
this is y i consider myself to be left winged... its time for the middle class to stand up before we are erased... I'm not saying this to irritate people but there are 3 types of Republicans: the 3 R's, the rich (they have a reason to be, the gov't protects them), the redneck (the Republicans wrap everything in the flag "god bless America), and the retarded (the people who know nothing about politics)...
ote-container_container">
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3058894
How so?
ok fine, I won't spend a huge amount of time on this. Because imo this is the quinticential result liberal ideology and what you get for believing what democrats say.
first off, in the greatest country on the planet, he doesn't think he can make it.
Second, he is prejudice, and hateful (redneck and retard?)
3- HE thinks the world hates us and Bush destroyed the United States. (then this is great links to no child left behind a "bipartisan" bill that Kennedy wrote)
4. Move toward socialism?
But quite frankly, anyone even with our socialist president, who doesn't see the USA as one of the best if not the best place to go where your limits are what you place on yourself, is part of the problem.
But I don't get this, Taznuts should be extatic, you have a president today who thinks exactly like Taznuts. He agrees with everything you just wrote.
taznut
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3058309
The reason the US was so successful is because the capitalist system takes advantage of a basic human trait. You can call it greed or competitiveness but in either case it works. The government has no business setting wages period. I would have no issue with limiting the salary range a business can write off as a business expense but lets face it, there are people who are worth millions and others who aren't worth minimum wage. As far as enforcement I look at it like gun laws. There are plenty on the books we just need to enforce them right. Step one would be to prohibit employees of any company subject to direct government regulation from making campaign donations to federal campaigns. I don't think the fact that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd where the biggest defenders of Fanny and Freddie, blocking legislation to increase oversight of them while also being the two biggest recipients of campaign donations from them was a coincidence.
One very easy way to curb political corruption would be to limit campaign donations to people eligible to vote for the particular candidate. Of course Congress would have to vote to cut their gravy train, like that's going to happen.
As far as my situation goes there are many companies that allow employees to work from home, It is not too difficult to monitor people's activities. Be pretty hard to game that system. I think the savings would easily dwarf any fraud. I think my raw payment is just over 1500.00 bucks a month right now before the medicare is taken out and I wasn't making big bucks when I went down, I am sure there are people making a lot more than me. I don't know the number of people who are on SS disability but I would bet 20% or so are in a similar situation to mine. I think the savings would be significant.
Another area to look at would be the armed forces. I don't think you could really use them to replace other government employees but there has got to be a lot of down time between training and such. I think the government should look at contracting out service people with appropriate job skills. I don't think that would be a good move with the current unemployment situation but once the economy is moving again why not. Perhaps they could use part of the money to give the troops better pay.
i do agree with most of this... i think we could get a lot more bang for the buck... a lot of money is wasted... i used to be in social services and i got paid 12.50/hr to watch tv, go to the store, mall, adventureland (theme park), etc... i was not taking advantage of the system, this was my job... i was to basically take care of people with mental disabilities, the main goal is to help them become independent so they can live on their own some day... this sounds good but some of the people in this system will never be independent (one guy i took care of wore a diaper because he didnt know how to use the toilet, we had to feed him, and he didnt know how to speak... some of these people are given close to $100k a year for people like me to take care of them... this doesnt include money for job placement, food stamps, title 8, help paying their bills, and the spending money they get... by the time everything is totaled up the tax payer is spending close to a quarter million on each individual (and i am making 25k/yr)...
i dont mean to sound insensitive but it is hard for me to understand spending that amount on some one that isnt a productive member of society (see im not completely liberal
)
http:///forum/post/3058309
The reason the US was so successful is because the capitalist system takes advantage of a basic human trait. You can call it greed or competitiveness but in either case it works. The government has no business setting wages period. I would have no issue with limiting the salary range a business can write off as a business expense but lets face it, there are people who are worth millions and others who aren't worth minimum wage. As far as enforcement I look at it like gun laws. There are plenty on the books we just need to enforce them right. Step one would be to prohibit employees of any company subject to direct government regulation from making campaign donations to federal campaigns. I don't think the fact that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd where the biggest defenders of Fanny and Freddie, blocking legislation to increase oversight of them while also being the two biggest recipients of campaign donations from them was a coincidence.
One very easy way to curb political corruption would be to limit campaign donations to people eligible to vote for the particular candidate. Of course Congress would have to vote to cut their gravy train, like that's going to happen.
As far as my situation goes there are many companies that allow employees to work from home, It is not too difficult to monitor people's activities. Be pretty hard to game that system. I think the savings would easily dwarf any fraud. I think my raw payment is just over 1500.00 bucks a month right now before the medicare is taken out and I wasn't making big bucks when I went down, I am sure there are people making a lot more than me. I don't know the number of people who are on SS disability but I would bet 20% or so are in a similar situation to mine. I think the savings would be significant.
Another area to look at would be the armed forces. I don't think you could really use them to replace other government employees but there has got to be a lot of down time between training and such. I think the government should look at contracting out service people with appropriate job skills. I don't think that would be a good move with the current unemployment situation but once the economy is moving again why not. Perhaps they could use part of the money to give the troops better pay.
i do agree with most of this... i think we could get a lot more bang for the buck... a lot of money is wasted... i used to be in social services and i got paid 12.50/hr to watch tv, go to the store, mall, adventureland (theme park), etc... i was not taking advantage of the system, this was my job... i was to basically take care of people with mental disabilities, the main goal is to help them become independent so they can live on their own some day... this sounds good but some of the people in this system will never be independent (one guy i took care of wore a diaper because he didnt know how to use the toilet, we had to feed him, and he didnt know how to speak... some of these people are given close to $100k a year for people like me to take care of them... this doesnt include money for job placement, food stamps, title 8, help paying their bills, and the spending money they get... by the time everything is totaled up the tax payer is spending close to a quarter million on each individual (and i am making 25k/yr)...
i dont mean to sound insensitive but it is hard for me to understand spending that amount on some one that isnt a productive member of society (see im not completely liberal
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058911
uneverno- you have to look at stdreb27 icon (texas flag) there is no use arguing against that...
You are right, all you have to do is look at texas as a government that works (as good as they are going to anyway). There is no point in arguing...
The home of the "redneck" where the state's percentage change of GDP isn't negative, unemployment is 4% lower than the national average. The state doesn't have a budget deficit, itsn't experiencing a huge financial crisis.
And this is after still feeling the effects of 3 major hurricanes over the past 4 years. And taking on the additional load of every welfare recipient and criminal in New Orleans.
And best of all, I don't look to the government to save me, I look to myself.
http:///forum/post/3058911
uneverno- you have to look at stdreb27 icon (texas flag) there is no use arguing against that...
You are right, all you have to do is look at texas as a government that works (as good as they are going to anyway). There is no point in arguing...
The home of the "redneck" where the state's percentage change of GDP isn't negative, unemployment is 4% lower than the national average. The state doesn't have a budget deficit, itsn't experiencing a huge financial crisis.
And this is after still feeling the effects of 3 major hurricanes over the past 4 years. And taking on the additional load of every welfare recipient and criminal in New Orleans.
And best of all, I don't look to the government to save me, I look to myself.
taznut
Active Member
although i do disagree with the comments about this country being great becasue of greed... did this help? possibly... there are people out there that are worth more than others but lets remember that VERY few people become millionaires on their own... they need the people they are paying crap to be where they are and i would like to see a little more respect... working 2 jobs to support yourself is not the American dream and it isnt realistic to think that everyone can become a millionaire (again you need the people below you to elevate you to that level)
taznut
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3058919
You are right, all you have to do is look at texas as a government that works (as good as they are going to anyway). There is no point in arguing...
The home of the "redneck" where the state's percentage change of GDP isn't negative, unemployment is 4% lower than the national average. The state doesn't have a budget deficit, itsn't experiencing a huge financial crisis.
And this is after still feeling the effects of 3 major hurricanes over the past 4 years. And taking on the additional load of every welfare recipient and criminal in New Orleans.
And best of all, I don't look to the government to save me, I look to myself.
this is true about Iowa as well... instead of hurricanes we deal with tornadoes and flooding...
and we, for the most part, have a democratic state gov't...
http:///forum/post/3058919
You are right, all you have to do is look at texas as a government that works (as good as they are going to anyway). There is no point in arguing...
The home of the "redneck" where the state's percentage change of GDP isn't negative, unemployment is 4% lower than the national average. The state doesn't have a budget deficit, itsn't experiencing a huge financial crisis.
And this is after still feeling the effects of 3 major hurricanes over the past 4 years. And taking on the additional load of every welfare recipient and criminal in New Orleans.
And best of all, I don't look to the government to save me, I look to myself.
this is true about Iowa as well... instead of hurricanes we deal with tornadoes and flooding...
and we, for the most part, have a democratic state gov't...