Nope. Not Torture.
- Thread starter uneverno
- Start date
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058922
although i do disagree with the comments about this country being great becasue of greed... did this help? possibly... there are people out there that are worth more than others but lets remember that VERY few people become millionaires on their own... they need the people they are paying crap to be where they are and i would like to see a little more respect... working 2 jobs to support yourself is not the American dream and it isnt realistic to think that everyone can become a millionaire (again you need the people below you to elevate you to that level)
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3058894
How so?
see above for more proof.
So what would you be doing if a RICH man hadn't taken a risk and opened the business you're working at? And hadn't paid you for filling a need.
Say that rich man hadn't existed, would you have food on your table?
What is stopping you from taking the same risks that rich man took to start his own business?
You are right, working 2 jobs isn't the american dream. The American Dream is that you not government is the limiting factor of success in your life.
How far out of school are you? And what did you get degrees in?
http:///forum/post/3058922
although i do disagree with the comments about this country being great becasue of greed... did this help? possibly... there are people out there that are worth more than others but lets remember that VERY few people become millionaires on their own... they need the people they are paying crap to be where they are and i would like to see a little more respect... working 2 jobs to support yourself is not the American dream and it isnt realistic to think that everyone can become a millionaire (again you need the people below you to elevate you to that level)
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3058894
How so?
see above for more proof.
So what would you be doing if a RICH man hadn't taken a risk and opened the business you're working at? And hadn't paid you for filling a need.
Say that rich man hadn't existed, would you have food on your table?
What is stopping you from taking the same risks that rich man took to start his own business?
You are right, working 2 jobs isn't the american dream. The American Dream is that you not government is the limiting factor of success in your life.
How far out of school are you? And what did you get degrees in?
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058927
and you forgot to mention your governor want to withdraw from the US... sounds patriotic to me...
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3058894
How so?
More ignorance...
http:///forum/post/3058927
and you forgot to mention your governor want to withdraw from the US... sounds patriotic to me...
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3058894
How so?
More ignorance...
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058917
i do agree with most of this... i think we could get a lot more bang for the buck... a lot of money is wasted... i used to be in social services and i got paid 12.50/hr to watch tv, go to the store, mall, adventureland (theme park), etc... i was not taking advantage of the system, this was my job... i was to basically take care of people with mental disabilities, the main goal is to help them become independent so they can live on their own some day... this sounds good but some of the people in this system will never be independent (one guy i took care of wore a diaper because he didnt know how to use the toilet, we had to feed him, and he didnt know how to speak... some of these people are given close to $100k a year for people like me to take care of them... this doesnt include money for job placement, food stamps, title 8, help paying their bills, and the spending money they get... by the time everything is totaled up the tax payer is spending close to a quarter million on each individual (and i am making 25k/yr)...
i dont mean to sound insensitive but it is hard for me to understand spending that amount on some one that isnt a productive member of society (see im not completely liberal
)
We'll have you listening to Rush and voting Republican in no time
The getting paid to do that stuff with the disabled people is a job I think they should require high school kids to do. Pay them minimum wage and their expenses for the activity. Not a bad gig for a kid and maybe they'll appreciate their lot in life a lot more seeing first hand what sucks really means.
http:///forum/post/3058917
i do agree with most of this... i think we could get a lot more bang for the buck... a lot of money is wasted... i used to be in social services and i got paid 12.50/hr to watch tv, go to the store, mall, adventureland (theme park), etc... i was not taking advantage of the system, this was my job... i was to basically take care of people with mental disabilities, the main goal is to help them become independent so they can live on their own some day... this sounds good but some of the people in this system will never be independent (one guy i took care of wore a diaper because he didnt know how to use the toilet, we had to feed him, and he didnt know how to speak... some of these people are given close to $100k a year for people like me to take care of them... this doesnt include money for job placement, food stamps, title 8, help paying their bills, and the spending money they get... by the time everything is totaled up the tax payer is spending close to a quarter million on each individual (and i am making 25k/yr)...
i dont mean to sound insensitive but it is hard for me to understand spending that amount on some one that isnt a productive member of society (see im not completely liberal
We'll have you listening to Rush and voting Republican in no time
The getting paid to do that stuff with the disabled people is a job I think they should require high school kids to do. Pay them minimum wage and their expenses for the activity. Not a bad gig for a kid and maybe they'll appreciate their lot in life a lot more seeing first hand what sucks really means.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058922
although i do disagree with the comments about this country being great becasue of greed... did this help? possibly... there are people out there that are worth more than others but lets remember that VERY few people become millionaires on their own... they need the people they are paying crap to be where they are and i would like to see a little more respect... working 2 jobs to support yourself is not the American dream and it isnt realistic to think that everyone can become a millionaire (again you need the people below you to elevate you to that level)
With the exception of some construction trades where you are paid by the job or piece most union jobs pay everyone doing the same job the same amount. Nearly every heavily unionized industry in America that isn't a government or service sector job has gone overseas. Big reason for that is pathetic productivity. If smith is going to get paid exactly what Jones earns even though Smith is at work ready to go at 8AM while Jones is at the coffee machine BSing what incentive does Smith have to continue doing a better job?
Free market capitalism takes advantage of our desire to have more. In a free market industry the manager could give Smith a bigger raise than jones as incentive to Jones to pull his head out his neither region and Smith the reward/incentive to keep doing better.
Back in the 80's the manager told me our department was limited to 4.5% increases in salary that year. I said oh well better than nothing, he said not everyone got 4.5%, some got squat, others got more but over all he got to raise salaries 4.5%. In a unionized shop (socialist Government) everyone gets the same raise deserved or not.
http:///forum/post/3058922
although i do disagree with the comments about this country being great becasue of greed... did this help? possibly... there are people out there that are worth more than others but lets remember that VERY few people become millionaires on their own... they need the people they are paying crap to be where they are and i would like to see a little more respect... working 2 jobs to support yourself is not the American dream and it isnt realistic to think that everyone can become a millionaire (again you need the people below you to elevate you to that level)
With the exception of some construction trades where you are paid by the job or piece most union jobs pay everyone doing the same job the same amount. Nearly every heavily unionized industry in America that isn't a government or service sector job has gone overseas. Big reason for that is pathetic productivity. If smith is going to get paid exactly what Jones earns even though Smith is at work ready to go at 8AM while Jones is at the coffee machine BSing what incentive does Smith have to continue doing a better job?
Free market capitalism takes advantage of our desire to have more. In a free market industry the manager could give Smith a bigger raise than jones as incentive to Jones to pull his head out his neither region and Smith the reward/incentive to keep doing better.
Back in the 80's the manager told me our department was limited to 4.5% increases in salary that year. I said oh well better than nothing, he said not everyone got 4.5%, some got squat, others got more but over all he got to raise salaries 4.5%. In a unionized shop (socialist Government) everyone gets the same raise deserved or not.
taznut
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3058929
see above for more proof.
So what would you be doing if a RICH man hadn't taken a risk and opened the business you're working at? And hadn't paid you for filling a need.
Say that rich man hadn't existed, would you have food on your table?
What is stopping you from taking the same risks that rich man took to start his own business?
You are right, working 2 jobs isn't the american dream. The American Dream is that you not government is the limiting factor of success in your life.
How far out of school are you? And what did you get degrees in?
do you think the only reason some one opens a business is for the money??? any i am not saying they cant be millionaires... i just think there is a point where enough is enough... there is only so much money a person can spend in a life time and i believe these 'rich' people owe more respect to the people that are making them the money... dont get me wrong, i dont think the founder of the company, CEO, CFO, etc should make what the rest of the low man on the totem poll is making but that low man should be able to support himself... when you have 2 people living together there should be some 'discretionary income'... again, im not saying i should be able to by a 100k$ car or a million dollar home but going out to eat with my gf once a week or getting a house in the foreseeable future shouldnt be out of the question..
what do you do???
graduated in may with a B.S. in psychology and will be getting a B.S. in criminal justice in the next year or two (when i decide to go back, only need 28crs)... i graduated in the top 10% of my class and had a 3.95 in psychology (im not mentioning this to brag just want to show I'm not an idiot)...
http:///forum/post/3058929
see above for more proof.
So what would you be doing if a RICH man hadn't taken a risk and opened the business you're working at? And hadn't paid you for filling a need.
Say that rich man hadn't existed, would you have food on your table?
What is stopping you from taking the same risks that rich man took to start his own business?
You are right, working 2 jobs isn't the american dream. The American Dream is that you not government is the limiting factor of success in your life.
How far out of school are you? And what did you get degrees in?
do you think the only reason some one opens a business is for the money??? any i am not saying they cant be millionaires... i just think there is a point where enough is enough... there is only so much money a person can spend in a life time and i believe these 'rich' people owe more respect to the people that are making them the money... dont get me wrong, i dont think the founder of the company, CEO, CFO, etc should make what the rest of the low man on the totem poll is making but that low man should be able to support himself... when you have 2 people living together there should be some 'discretionary income'... again, im not saying i should be able to by a 100k$ car or a million dollar home but going out to eat with my gf once a week or getting a house in the foreseeable future shouldnt be out of the question..
what do you do???
graduated in may with a B.S. in psychology and will be getting a B.S. in criminal justice in the next year or two (when i decide to go back, only need 28crs)... i graduated in the top 10% of my class and had a 3.95 in psychology (im not mentioning this to brag just want to show I'm not an idiot)...
taznut
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3058945
With the exception of some construction trades where you are paid by the job or piece most union jobs pay everyone doing the same job the same amount. Nearly every heavily unionized industry in America that isn't a government or service sector job has gone overseas. Big reason for that is pathetic productivity. If smith is going to get paid exactly what Jones earns even though Smith is at work ready to go at 8AM while Jones is at the coffee machine BSing what incentive does Smith have to continue doing a better job?
Free market capitalism takes advantage of our desire to have more. In a free market industry the manager could give Smith a bigger raise than jones as incentive to Jones to pull his head out his neither region and Smith the reward/incentive to keep doing better.
Back in the 80's the manager told me our department was limited to 4.5% increases in salary that year. I said oh well better than nothing, he said not everyone got 4.5%, some got squat, others got more but over all he got to raise salaries 4.5%. In a unionized shop (socialist Government) everyone gets the same raise deserved or not.
i have never worked for a unionized company and have seen this in every job i have worked... in fact, the last raise i got took effect before my supervisor filled out my eval... the company my gf works for determines what they are going to hire new people in at and that is what their raise is (from the hire in rate from last year to the new hire in rate)... again, this place is not unionized and this happens (experience/productivity doesnt count for squat)...
i dont have a problem with the example you gave from the '80s but from the people i have talked to that had a job then (sorry i was born in the late 80s) say that a lot of things have changed since then... do you think this is true???
i agree that unions have a motivation problem, i think this could be fixed if some time was spent working on it instead of making it nearly impossible in some states to get unionized and then b****ing that there are problems with unions once they take effect... all i am asking for is a decent living wage and my stance on this topic comes from the obvious fact that the 'rich' guys at the top of the chart dont care about the little guys and couldnt care less if they had a place to live or lived in a cardboard box and eating out of trash cans...
http:///forum/post/3058945
With the exception of some construction trades where you are paid by the job or piece most union jobs pay everyone doing the same job the same amount. Nearly every heavily unionized industry in America that isn't a government or service sector job has gone overseas. Big reason for that is pathetic productivity. If smith is going to get paid exactly what Jones earns even though Smith is at work ready to go at 8AM while Jones is at the coffee machine BSing what incentive does Smith have to continue doing a better job?
Free market capitalism takes advantage of our desire to have more. In a free market industry the manager could give Smith a bigger raise than jones as incentive to Jones to pull his head out his neither region and Smith the reward/incentive to keep doing better.
Back in the 80's the manager told me our department was limited to 4.5% increases in salary that year. I said oh well better than nothing, he said not everyone got 4.5%, some got squat, others got more but over all he got to raise salaries 4.5%. In a unionized shop (socialist Government) everyone gets the same raise deserved or not.
i have never worked for a unionized company and have seen this in every job i have worked... in fact, the last raise i got took effect before my supervisor filled out my eval... the company my gf works for determines what they are going to hire new people in at and that is what their raise is (from the hire in rate from last year to the new hire in rate)... again, this place is not unionized and this happens (experience/productivity doesnt count for squat)...
i dont have a problem with the example you gave from the '80s but from the people i have talked to that had a job then (sorry i was born in the late 80s) say that a lot of things have changed since then... do you think this is true???
i agree that unions have a motivation problem, i think this could be fixed if some time was spent working on it instead of making it nearly impossible in some states to get unionized and then b****ing that there are problems with unions once they take effect... all i am asking for is a decent living wage and my stance on this topic comes from the obvious fact that the 'rich' guys at the top of the chart dont care about the little guys and couldnt care less if they had a place to live or lived in a cardboard box and eating out of trash cans...
taznut
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3058933
More ignorance...
again, how so???
are you saying i am wrong with this comment???
http:///forum/post/3058933
More ignorance...
again, how so???
are you saying i am wrong with this comment???
oscardeuce
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3058929
see above for more proof.
So what would you be doing if a RICH man hadn't taken a risk and opened the business you're working at? And hadn't paid you for filling a need.
Say that rich man hadn't existed, would you have food on your table?
What is stopping you from taking the same risks that rich man took to start his own business?
You are right, working 2 jobs isn't the american dream. The American Dream is that you not government is the limiting factor of success in your life.
How far out of school are you? And what did you get degrees in?
Actually many were not "rich" to begin with. They took the risk, now the gov't takes the reward.
Then again rich men like Washington risked all.
http:///forum/post/3058929
see above for more proof.
So what would you be doing if a RICH man hadn't taken a risk and opened the business you're working at? And hadn't paid you for filling a need.
Say that rich man hadn't existed, would you have food on your table?
What is stopping you from taking the same risks that rich man took to start his own business?
You are right, working 2 jobs isn't the american dream. The American Dream is that you not government is the limiting factor of success in your life.
How far out of school are you? And what did you get degrees in?
Actually many were not "rich" to begin with. They took the risk, now the gov't takes the reward.
Then again rich men like Washington risked all.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058951
i have never worked for a unionized company and have seen this in every job i have worked... in fact, the last raise i got took effect before my supervisor filled out my eval... the company my gf works for determines what they are going to hire new people in at and that is what their raise is (from the hire in rate from last year to the new hire in rate)... again, this place is not unionized and this happens (experience/productivity doesnt count for squat)...
i dont have a problem with the example you gave from the '80s but from the people i have talked to that had a job then (sorry i was born in the late 80s) say that a lot of things have changed since then... do you think this is true???
i agree that unions have a motivation problem, i think this could be fixed if some time was spent working on it instead of making it nearly impossible in some states to get unionized and then b****ing that there are problems with unions once they take effect... all i am asking for is a decent living wage and my stance on this topic comes from the obvious fact that the 'rich' guys at the top of the chart dont care about the little guys and couldnt care less if they had a place to live or lived in a cardboard box and eating out of trash cans...
I don't really see any major differences from now and back in the 80's. I haven't worked since 2000 but the wife still plays the game. The guy who hired her got canned about a year after she started because the VP of the company saw a sudden influx of production that was coming from her while her boss's productivity still sucked. Last we knew he was working at Safeway. She's had one promotion, 13,000K in bonuses and 20% increase in pay over the last two years. She goes above and beyond on the job and gets rewarded for it. There were a few slugs working there and they didn't get a raise last year and I doubt they got bonuses. Two of them left and the third has been doing a little better. Honestly don't know if that was because he was threatened or motivated to do better.
You are always going to have slugs. Some people aren't motivated to get ahead. One of my best friends brothers was in his late 30's and would only work a job long enough to collect unemployment. I knew a few people that did that crap in their early 20's but late 30's? Can you say Loser.
http:///forum/post/3058951
i have never worked for a unionized company and have seen this in every job i have worked... in fact, the last raise i got took effect before my supervisor filled out my eval... the company my gf works for determines what they are going to hire new people in at and that is what their raise is (from the hire in rate from last year to the new hire in rate)... again, this place is not unionized and this happens (experience/productivity doesnt count for squat)...
i dont have a problem with the example you gave from the '80s but from the people i have talked to that had a job then (sorry i was born in the late 80s) say that a lot of things have changed since then... do you think this is true???
i agree that unions have a motivation problem, i think this could be fixed if some time was spent working on it instead of making it nearly impossible in some states to get unionized and then b****ing that there are problems with unions once they take effect... all i am asking for is a decent living wage and my stance on this topic comes from the obvious fact that the 'rich' guys at the top of the chart dont care about the little guys and couldnt care less if they had a place to live or lived in a cardboard box and eating out of trash cans...
I don't really see any major differences from now and back in the 80's. I haven't worked since 2000 but the wife still plays the game. The guy who hired her got canned about a year after she started because the VP of the company saw a sudden influx of production that was coming from her while her boss's productivity still sucked. Last we knew he was working at Safeway. She's had one promotion, 13,000K in bonuses and 20% increase in pay over the last two years. She goes above and beyond on the job and gets rewarded for it. There were a few slugs working there and they didn't get a raise last year and I doubt they got bonuses. Two of them left and the third has been doing a little better. Honestly don't know if that was because he was threatened or motivated to do better.
You are always going to have slugs. Some people aren't motivated to get ahead. One of my best friends brothers was in his late 30's and would only work a job long enough to collect unemployment. I knew a few people that did that crap in their early 20's but late 30's? Can you say Loser.
taznut
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3058982
You are always going to have slugs. Some people aren't motivated to get ahead. One of my best friends brothers was in his late 30's and would only work a job long enough to collect unemployment. I knew a few people that did that crap in their early 20's but late 30's? Can you say Loser.
i know people like this...
i understand the point you are making here but i do not think you can monitor progress in all jobs like you must be able to in her's... again, im not against people getting what they work for and raises reflecting what a person does...
but, $10/hr being considered competitive pay and a 2.5% raise average (in a store that profits 6+ million a yr) seems a little less than sufficient...
http:///forum/post/3058982
You are always going to have slugs. Some people aren't motivated to get ahead. One of my best friends brothers was in his late 30's and would only work a job long enough to collect unemployment. I knew a few people that did that crap in their early 20's but late 30's? Can you say Loser.
i know people like this...
i understand the point you are making here but i do not think you can monitor progress in all jobs like you must be able to in her's... again, im not against people getting what they work for and raises reflecting what a person does...
but, $10/hr being considered competitive pay and a 2.5% raise average (in a store that profits 6+ million a yr) seems a little less than sufficient...
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3059011
i know people like this...
i understand the point you are making here but i do not think you can monitor progress in all jobs like you must be able to in her's... again, im not against people getting what they work for and raises reflecting what a person does...
but, $10/hr being considered competitive pay and a 2.5% raise average (in a store that profits 6+ million a yr) seems a little less than sufficient...
10 an hour to do what? Entry level jobs are just that, a place to start. I love it when people start yawlin about "You can't support a family on______". No you can't. Thats why most people wait to start a family until they are on a good career track.
You want to take a couple bucks an hour away from someone who has been moving up the last 3 or 4 years saving up to start a family so some idiot who spit out a couple kids while while working at the skateboard park can feed their kids?
http:///forum/post/3059011
i know people like this...
i understand the point you are making here but i do not think you can monitor progress in all jobs like you must be able to in her's... again, im not against people getting what they work for and raises reflecting what a person does...
but, $10/hr being considered competitive pay and a 2.5% raise average (in a store that profits 6+ million a yr) seems a little less than sufficient...
10 an hour to do what? Entry level jobs are just that, a place to start. I love it when people start yawlin about "You can't support a family on______". No you can't. Thats why most people wait to start a family until they are on a good career track.
You want to take a couple bucks an hour away from someone who has been moving up the last 3 or 4 years saving up to start a family so some idiot who spit out a couple kids while while working at the skateboard park can feed their kids?
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058954
again, how so???
are you saying i am wrong with this comment???
Yes that is a completely inaccurate statement.
http:///forum/post/3058954
again, how so???
are you saying i am wrong with this comment???
Yes that is a completely inaccurate statement.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3058946
do you think the only reason some one opens a business is for the money??? any i am not saying they cant be millionaires... i just think there is a point where enough is enough... there is only so much money a person can spend in a life time and i believe these 'rich' people owe more respect to the people that are making them the money... dont get me wrong, i dont think the founder of the company, CEO, CFO, etc should make what the rest of the low man on the totem poll is making but that low man should be able to support himself... when you have 2 people living together there should be some 'discretionary income'... again, im not saying i should be able to by a 100k$ car or a million dollar home but going out to eat with my gf once a week or getting a house in the foreseeable future shouldnt be out of the question..
what do you do???
graduated in may with a B.S. in psychology and will be getting a B.S. in criminal justice in the next year or two (when i decide to go back, only need 28crs)... i graduated in the top 10% of my class and had a 3.95 in psychology (im not mentioning this to brag just want to show I'm not an idiot)...
Grades are a very narrow measurement of intelligence, and a very poor measurement of what it takes to be a success person (financially).
Why else would you open a business? You open a business to make money. Even philanthropic business like Tom's Shoes. The dude started (get this) selling shoes. To make money so he could do what he wanted to do with it. And that was give shoes to people in third world countries. (and live very comfortably as well)
You need some perspective.
You have a job and so does your girl friend. You have enough money for 2 new cars, you have enough money for a computer, an apartment, a salt water fish tank, cell phones (I'd assume), air conditioning, heating, and whatever else you play with. That is better than most of the rest of the world. And you're a year out of college. You've done right now better than billions of people today. (I'm not joking around there)
I think a lot of times schools build up people's dilution that they are going to get out of school and have it made. Of course not. You're going to have to bite the bullet and do some stuff and work in some places you'd rather not work. By world standards our lives are cakewalks. But by American standards, you have to start some where. If it sucks and you hate it change, their is no law saying you have to stay...
Who is to judge when enough is enough? What would happen if the government told your rich boss enough is enough, you can't make any more money. What would happen to your job?
The simple fact is the more money companies make, the more gets invested into their business. And that means the more people get hired. You think GM is hiring anyone right now? In the oil business (when a barrel of oil was $140) they would hire the dog if it had an engineering degree. There are still staffing shortages in houston.
http:///forum/post/3058946
do you think the only reason some one opens a business is for the money??? any i am not saying they cant be millionaires... i just think there is a point where enough is enough... there is only so much money a person can spend in a life time and i believe these 'rich' people owe more respect to the people that are making them the money... dont get me wrong, i dont think the founder of the company, CEO, CFO, etc should make what the rest of the low man on the totem poll is making but that low man should be able to support himself... when you have 2 people living together there should be some 'discretionary income'... again, im not saying i should be able to by a 100k$ car or a million dollar home but going out to eat with my gf once a week or getting a house in the foreseeable future shouldnt be out of the question..
what do you do???
graduated in may with a B.S. in psychology and will be getting a B.S. in criminal justice in the next year or two (when i decide to go back, only need 28crs)... i graduated in the top 10% of my class and had a 3.95 in psychology (im not mentioning this to brag just want to show I'm not an idiot)...
Grades are a very narrow measurement of intelligence, and a very poor measurement of what it takes to be a success person (financially).
Why else would you open a business? You open a business to make money. Even philanthropic business like Tom's Shoes. The dude started (get this) selling shoes. To make money so he could do what he wanted to do with it. And that was give shoes to people in third world countries. (and live very comfortably as well)
You need some perspective.
You have a job and so does your girl friend. You have enough money for 2 new cars, you have enough money for a computer, an apartment, a salt water fish tank, cell phones (I'd assume), air conditioning, heating, and whatever else you play with. That is better than most of the rest of the world. And you're a year out of college. You've done right now better than billions of people today. (I'm not joking around there)
I think a lot of times schools build up people's dilution that they are going to get out of school and have it made. Of course not. You're going to have to bite the bullet and do some stuff and work in some places you'd rather not work. By world standards our lives are cakewalks. But by American standards, you have to start some where. If it sucks and you hate it change, their is no law saying you have to stay...
Who is to judge when enough is enough? What would happen if the government told your rich boss enough is enough, you can't make any more money. What would happen to your job?
The simple fact is the more money companies make, the more gets invested into their business. And that means the more people get hired. You think GM is hiring anyone right now? In the oil business (when a barrel of oil was $140) they would hire the dog if it had an engineering degree. There are still staffing shortages in houston.
taznut
Active Member
I don't know if I have made y stance clear. the reason y I support bigger govt and unions is that employeers don't pay employees what they need to survive. I hate the entry level job bs. that is what this country has. we are losing more and more production jobs (mainly due to the wonderful republican party's trickle down theory) and saving taxes for the big man. it is not possible for everyone to be a millionaire and that's not what I am saying. can everyone that works hard move up the food chain? I don't think so. I have no doubt that u can work up the food chain but how long does that take. and again, with out the pee ons u don't have the higer up positions.
im not really suggesting a limit. but instead of worrying about that multimillion dollar bone-us maybe pass that on to the people who earned it. and if my boss doesn't like it and quits, someone will fill his place
im not really suggesting a limit. but instead of worrying about that multimillion dollar bone-us maybe pass that on to the people who earned it. and if my boss doesn't like it and quits, someone will fill his place
oscardeuce
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3059315
if my boss doesn't like it and quits, someone will fill his place
Who, the gov't?
Unions were a good thing back in the early 1900's now they've morphed into what they were created to fight, a greedy money hungry machine.
http:///forum/post/3059315
if my boss doesn't like it and quits, someone will fill his place
Who, the gov't?
Unions were a good thing back in the early 1900's now they've morphed into what they were created to fight, a greedy money hungry machine.
taznut
Active Member
1. believing we live in an ideal world...
your whole argument stands on the assumption that people get what the earn/work for... do you truly believe this to be the case??? maybe it did for you (which is the only possible reason i can see for you standing on the topic so strongly) but it doesn't for everyone...
2. entry level jobs...
maybe this was the case a few years ago but we are constantly losing jobs over seas (sure, we pay more than they do so it causes prices to be higher), we are becoming a retail based country (and there is a lot of shuffling of papers and counting of beads)... all we do is sell what some other county makes... these jobs are no longer entry level jobs... they are the ones adults (even parents) are falling into and having to live off the pathetic checks they are receiving...
ok, your right, you can move up within this structure... where i work there is about a 1:10 ratio of managers to workers, lets assume they dont hire managers from outside the store/company (which they do), this gives the employees a 1 in 10 chance to get promoted... sure, you can work your butt off and be ahead of all your fellow employees, but what about them once you get the job??? better luck next time??? keep making crap until you do better??? is this really your suggestion???
another personal example of this, in order to become a manager at my place of work you have to take this managers training course, they open it about once every 3 months... the last 2 times they have accepted 2 people from the region, out of 71 stores... our store has about 150 people, most of the others have more (even though ours is the top earning store in the region [and then they wonder why we finished last in customer service])... btw, i have nothing to do with the customer service, i work nights... how motivated should a person be to apply for a position when there are over 10,000 other people that can apply (i did this time, haven't heard anything)??? again i understand the point of 'shooting for the stars' and doing everything you can but this still leaves all the others behinds... and getting into this position doesnt guarantee you a manager job even if you complete it.
3. things are the same as they were in the '80s
I know this wasnt your argument but from your stance i bet you support this... is this really true... do you think wages have kept up with inflation??? look at the prices of houses in the last 10 years (excluding the last year; this is, in part, due to this discrepancy and more so to GREED and LACK OF GOVT OVERSIGHT)
btw, what are your degrees in and what do you do stdreb27???
your whole argument stands on the assumption that people get what the earn/work for... do you truly believe this to be the case??? maybe it did for you (which is the only possible reason i can see for you standing on the topic so strongly) but it doesn't for everyone...
2. entry level jobs...
maybe this was the case a few years ago but we are constantly losing jobs over seas (sure, we pay more than they do so it causes prices to be higher), we are becoming a retail based country (and there is a lot of shuffling of papers and counting of beads)... all we do is sell what some other county makes... these jobs are no longer entry level jobs... they are the ones adults (even parents) are falling into and having to live off the pathetic checks they are receiving...
ok, your right, you can move up within this structure... where i work there is about a 1:10 ratio of managers to workers, lets assume they dont hire managers from outside the store/company (which they do), this gives the employees a 1 in 10 chance to get promoted... sure, you can work your butt off and be ahead of all your fellow employees, but what about them once you get the job??? better luck next time??? keep making crap until you do better??? is this really your suggestion???
another personal example of this, in order to become a manager at my place of work you have to take this managers training course, they open it about once every 3 months... the last 2 times they have accepted 2 people from the region, out of 71 stores... our store has about 150 people, most of the others have more (even though ours is the top earning store in the region [and then they wonder why we finished last in customer service])... btw, i have nothing to do with the customer service, i work nights... how motivated should a person be to apply for a position when there are over 10,000 other people that can apply (i did this time, haven't heard anything)??? again i understand the point of 'shooting for the stars' and doing everything you can but this still leaves all the others behinds... and getting into this position doesnt guarantee you a manager job even if you complete it.
3. things are the same as they were in the '80s
I know this wasnt your argument but from your stance i bet you support this... is this really true... do you think wages have kept up with inflation??? look at the prices of houses in the last 10 years (excluding the last year; this is, in part, due to this discrepancy and more so to GREED and LACK OF GOVT OVERSIGHT)
btw, what are your degrees in and what do you do stdreb27???
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3059315
I don't know if I have made y stance clear. the reason y I support bigger govt and unions is that employeers don't pay employees what they need to survive. I hate the entry level job bs. that is what this country has. we are losing more and more production jobs (mainly due to the wonderful republican party's trickle down theory) and saving taxes for the big man. it is not possible for everyone to be a millionaire and that's not what I am saying. can everyone that works hard move up the food chain? I don't think so. I have no doubt that u can work up the food chain but how long does that take. and again, with out the pee ons u don't have the higer up positions.
im not really suggesting a limit. but instead of worrying about that multimillion dollar bone-us maybe pass that on to the people who earned it. and if my boss doesn't like it and quits, someone will fill his place
You do realize the top 10% of wage earners pay about 65~70% of income taxes in this country while the bottom half or so of wage earners pay no income taxes right? They also pay most state taxes, property taxes, sales taxes etc. Those taxes pay for the schools, parks, libraries and all that other fun stuff we self sufficient folks utilize every day. I have no problem with those who are more successful paying more than their fair share to pay for all those fun things we use. The thing is how much do you want? The myth you libs (in your case I really think you are more of a socialist than liberal, and I don't mean that as a slam, just a matter of fact) put out about the "rich" not paying taxes is just that, a myth.
Think about it this way. Warren Buffet made a big deal about having a lower effective tax rate than his secretary. He is an extreme example but lets use him. Most of his income is from capitol gains so because the government is giving a break to people who invest money THEY WERE ALREADY TAXED ON a break and only taking 15% of the gains they made RISKING THEIR OWN MONEY in whatever venture they chose to invest it in Buffet had an effective tax rate around 17%. But 17% of how many BILLIONS of dollars? 17% of 1 Billion 170 Million dollars. He pays more in taxes in one year than 99% of us will ever earn in a life time.
He also likely has a huge house which means his property taxes are many times higher than average Jane's. He buys a lot of stuff so he pays a lot of sales taxes. I won't even go into the jobs created by his participation in the evil capitalist system. At the same time he probably sent his kids to private schools which means the bigger share of the cost of the public schools he pays is a gift. There is about no chance in hell he is going to use the government services like unemployment, welfare, or other public assistance our taxes go to pay for. I think he is paying his fair share.
Trickle down economics wasn't a Republican invention, it is a component of American capitalism. When Reagan cut taxes at the top the rate had been 70%. Do you think people who have busted their butt to become super successful should pay 70 cents out of every dollar JUST IN FEDERAL INCOME TAXES? Whats the point of becoming successful if you are being taxed to the point your take home pay is the same as some guy who didn't put in the work to get an advanced degree, used his disposable income to buy toys, take trips etc. rather than setting money aside to start their own business or make investments?
The only people who don't pay income taxes in this country are those at the bottom. People try to use the BS argument that FICA taxes unfairly hit the poor. That is a direct payment to a pension fund and insurance for disability and life if you happen to have kids. Your benefit is directly proportional to what you paid in.
http:///forum/post/3059315
I don't know if I have made y stance clear. the reason y I support bigger govt and unions is that employeers don't pay employees what they need to survive. I hate the entry level job bs. that is what this country has. we are losing more and more production jobs (mainly due to the wonderful republican party's trickle down theory) and saving taxes for the big man. it is not possible for everyone to be a millionaire and that's not what I am saying. can everyone that works hard move up the food chain? I don't think so. I have no doubt that u can work up the food chain but how long does that take. and again, with out the pee ons u don't have the higer up positions.
im not really suggesting a limit. but instead of worrying about that multimillion dollar bone-us maybe pass that on to the people who earned it. and if my boss doesn't like it and quits, someone will fill his place
You do realize the top 10% of wage earners pay about 65~70% of income taxes in this country while the bottom half or so of wage earners pay no income taxes right? They also pay most state taxes, property taxes, sales taxes etc. Those taxes pay for the schools, parks, libraries and all that other fun stuff we self sufficient folks utilize every day. I have no problem with those who are more successful paying more than their fair share to pay for all those fun things we use. The thing is how much do you want? The myth you libs (in your case I really think you are more of a socialist than liberal, and I don't mean that as a slam, just a matter of fact) put out about the "rich" not paying taxes is just that, a myth.
Think about it this way. Warren Buffet made a big deal about having a lower effective tax rate than his secretary. He is an extreme example but lets use him. Most of his income is from capitol gains so because the government is giving a break to people who invest money THEY WERE ALREADY TAXED ON a break and only taking 15% of the gains they made RISKING THEIR OWN MONEY in whatever venture they chose to invest it in Buffet had an effective tax rate around 17%. But 17% of how many BILLIONS of dollars? 17% of 1 Billion 170 Million dollars. He pays more in taxes in one year than 99% of us will ever earn in a life time.
He also likely has a huge house which means his property taxes are many times higher than average Jane's. He buys a lot of stuff so he pays a lot of sales taxes. I won't even go into the jobs created by his participation in the evil capitalist system. At the same time he probably sent his kids to private schools which means the bigger share of the cost of the public schools he pays is a gift. There is about no chance in hell he is going to use the government services like unemployment, welfare, or other public assistance our taxes go to pay for. I think he is paying his fair share.
Trickle down economics wasn't a Republican invention, it is a component of American capitalism. When Reagan cut taxes at the top the rate had been 70%. Do you think people who have busted their butt to become super successful should pay 70 cents out of every dollar JUST IN FEDERAL INCOME TAXES? Whats the point of becoming successful if you are being taxed to the point your take home pay is the same as some guy who didn't put in the work to get an advanced degree, used his disposable income to buy toys, take trips etc. rather than setting money aside to start their own business or make investments?
The only people who don't pay income taxes in this country are those at the bottom. People try to use the BS argument that FICA taxes unfairly hit the poor. That is a direct payment to a pension fund and insurance for disability and life if you happen to have kids. Your benefit is directly proportional to what you paid in.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3059321
1. believing we live in an ideal world...
your whole argument stands on the assumption that people get what the earn/work for... do you truly believe this to be the case??? maybe it did for you (which is the only possible reason i can see for you standing on the topic so strongly) but it doesn't for everyone...
2. entry level jobs...
maybe this was the case a few years ago but we are constantly losing jobs over seas (sure, we pay more than they do so it causes prices to be higher), we are becoming a retail based country (and there is a lot of shuffling of papers and counting of beads)... all we do is sell what some other county makes... these jobs are no longer entry level jobs... they are the ones adults (even parents) are falling into and having to live off the pathetic checks they are receiving...
ok, your right, you can move up within this structure... where i work there is about a 1:10 ratio of managers to workers, lets assume they dont hire managers from outside the store/company (which they do), this gives the employees a 1 in 10 chance to get promoted... sure, you can work your butt off and be ahead of all your fellow employees, but what about them once you get the job??? better luck next time??? keep making crap until you do better??? is this really your suggestion???
another personal example of this, in order to become a manager at my place of work you have to take this managers training course, they open it about once every 3 months... the last 2 times they have accepted 2 people from the region, out of 71 stores... our store has about 150 people, most of the others have more (even though ours is the top earning store in the region [and then they wonder why we finished last in customer service])... btw, i have nothing to do with the customer service, i work nights... how motivated should a person be to apply for a position when there are over 10,000 other people that can apply (i did this time, haven't heard anything)??? again i understand the point of 'shooting for the stars' and doing everything you can but this still leaves all the others behinds... and getting into this position doesnt guarantee you a manager job even if you complete it.
3. things are the same as they were in the '80s
I know this wasnt your argument but from your stance i bet you support this... is this really true... do you think wages have kept up with inflation??? look at the prices of houses in the last 10 years (excluding the last year; this is, in part, due to this discrepancy and more so to GREED and LACK OF GOVT OVERSIGHT)
btw, what are your degrees in and what do you do stdreb27???
Economics, and international business. I do cost controls for a project management company and I'm the unnoficial IT guy.
Think about this, using actual numbers. Since the mid 70's outsourcing because a phenominon. Then you get a wealth of different estimate and numbers. But no one is debating this is happening. In the late nineties till now it has been front page news.
Also think about the unemployment rate since then. It spiked right at the beginning of the Reagan Presidency. Then fell till around the time obama took office. Bush's average rate was somewhere below 5. Clintons was around 5 (these are ball park off the top of my head) There is no corrolation between outsourcing and high unemployment rates.
Second thing you really need to consider, is pay rates (what you are really moaning about.) If you go back to the industrial revolution, (when we made the most stuff) and even after they all unionized. The pay rates for a manufacturing job, ajusted for inflation in today's dollars are like 400 to 1000 dollars a month (depending on whose average you choose to use.)
The standard of living you have with your hated job, is much higher than most back in the good ol days.
You do understand the REASON that housing prices have exploded is government intervention? It isn't a free market issue. Before the market was infused with government funded loans, the housing price stayed on par with inflation.
But no wonder you hate your job retailing sucks giant donkey balls and you don't even deal with the general public. I worked in Retail for 5 years to pay for college. I'd never recomend anyone work in that environment, unless you're clinically insane.
Your problem is you are in a very very competitive environment. There are millions and millions of people, and it is very very difficult to differentiate yourself from them.
With a psycology and a CJ degree in the works, I would hope you are applying to be in law enforcement. Around here, they'll hire anyone who isn't a pot head and isn't fat.
http:///forum/post/3059321
1. believing we live in an ideal world...
your whole argument stands on the assumption that people get what the earn/work for... do you truly believe this to be the case??? maybe it did for you (which is the only possible reason i can see for you standing on the topic so strongly) but it doesn't for everyone...
2. entry level jobs...
maybe this was the case a few years ago but we are constantly losing jobs over seas (sure, we pay more than they do so it causes prices to be higher), we are becoming a retail based country (and there is a lot of shuffling of papers and counting of beads)... all we do is sell what some other county makes... these jobs are no longer entry level jobs... they are the ones adults (even parents) are falling into and having to live off the pathetic checks they are receiving...
ok, your right, you can move up within this structure... where i work there is about a 1:10 ratio of managers to workers, lets assume they dont hire managers from outside the store/company (which they do), this gives the employees a 1 in 10 chance to get promoted... sure, you can work your butt off and be ahead of all your fellow employees, but what about them once you get the job??? better luck next time??? keep making crap until you do better??? is this really your suggestion???
another personal example of this, in order to become a manager at my place of work you have to take this managers training course, they open it about once every 3 months... the last 2 times they have accepted 2 people from the region, out of 71 stores... our store has about 150 people, most of the others have more (even though ours is the top earning store in the region [and then they wonder why we finished last in customer service])... btw, i have nothing to do with the customer service, i work nights... how motivated should a person be to apply for a position when there are over 10,000 other people that can apply (i did this time, haven't heard anything)??? again i understand the point of 'shooting for the stars' and doing everything you can but this still leaves all the others behinds... and getting into this position doesnt guarantee you a manager job even if you complete it.
3. things are the same as they were in the '80s
I know this wasnt your argument but from your stance i bet you support this... is this really true... do you think wages have kept up with inflation??? look at the prices of houses in the last 10 years (excluding the last year; this is, in part, due to this discrepancy and more so to GREED and LACK OF GOVT OVERSIGHT)
btw, what are your degrees in and what do you do stdreb27???
Economics, and international business. I do cost controls for a project management company and I'm the unnoficial IT guy.
Think about this, using actual numbers. Since the mid 70's outsourcing because a phenominon. Then you get a wealth of different estimate and numbers. But no one is debating this is happening. In the late nineties till now it has been front page news.
Also think about the unemployment rate since then. It spiked right at the beginning of the Reagan Presidency. Then fell till around the time obama took office. Bush's average rate was somewhere below 5. Clintons was around 5 (these are ball park off the top of my head) There is no corrolation between outsourcing and high unemployment rates.
Second thing you really need to consider, is pay rates (what you are really moaning about.) If you go back to the industrial revolution, (when we made the most stuff) and even after they all unionized. The pay rates for a manufacturing job, ajusted for inflation in today's dollars are like 400 to 1000 dollars a month (depending on whose average you choose to use.)
The standard of living you have with your hated job, is much higher than most back in the good ol days.
You do understand the REASON that housing prices have exploded is government intervention? It isn't a free market issue. Before the market was infused with government funded loans, the housing price stayed on par with inflation.
But no wonder you hate your job retailing sucks giant donkey balls and you don't even deal with the general public. I worked in Retail for 5 years to pay for college. I'd never recomend anyone work in that environment, unless you're clinically insane.
Your problem is you are in a very very competitive environment. There are millions and millions of people, and it is very very difficult to differentiate yourself from them.
With a psycology and a CJ degree in the works, I would hope you are applying to be in law enforcement. Around here, they'll hire anyone who isn't a pot head and isn't fat.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by taznut
http:///forum/post/3059321
1. believing we live in an ideal world...
2. entry level jobs...
maybe this was the case a few years ago but we are constantly losing jobs over seas (sure, we pay more than they do so it causes prices to be higher), we are becoming a retail based country (and there is a lot of shuffling of papers and counting of beads)... all we do is sell what some other county makes... these jobs are no longer entry level jobs... they are the ones adults (even parents) are falling into and having to live off the pathetic checks they are receiving...
ok, your right, you can move up within this structure... where i work there is about a 1:10 ratio of managers to workers, lets assume they dont hire managers from outside the store/company (which they do), this gives the employees a 1 in 10 chance to get promoted... sure, you can work your butt off and be ahead of all your fellow employees, but what about them once you get the job??? better luck next time??? keep making crap until you do better??? is this really your suggestion???
another personal example of this, in order to become a manager at my place of work you have to take this managers training course, they open it about once every 3 months... the last 2 times they have accepted 2 people from the region, out of 71 stores... our store has about 150 people, most of the others have more (even though ours is the top earning store in the region [and then they wonder why we finished last in customer service])... btw, i have nothing to do with the customer service, i work nights... how motivated should a person be to apply for a position when there are over 10,000 other people that can apply (i did this time, haven't heard anything)??? again i understand the point of 'shooting for the stars' and doing everything you can but this still leaves all the others behinds... and getting into this position doesnt guarantee you a manager job even if you complete it.
3. things are the same as they were in the '80s
I know this wasnt your argument but from your stance i bet you support this... is this really true... do you think wages have kept up with inflation??? look at the prices of houses in the last 10 years (excluding the last year; this is, in part, due to this discrepancy and more so to GREED and LACK OF GOVT OVERSIGHT)
btw, what are your degrees in and what do you do stdreb27???
Taz, Taz, Taz
Why do you think we are losing jobs overseas? The cost of doing business in this country has gotten out of hand. Between foolish government regulations (Notice I didn't say too much) and ridiculous union contracts heavy manufacturing, steel and other industries have moved to other countries.
I know I sorta used this example before but lets dig a little deeper into the scenario. Say you are a mechanic and a good one, you can fix 5 cars a day. The guy who works next to you shows up hungover most days and only fixes 3 on a good day and is rude to the customers. If your current employer doesn't pay you well you have the option of going to work for another shop who will. Most shops are competitive and will jump at the chance to hire a good employee. The slug next to you is stuck at the lower paying job because the shop paying better demands a better work product so they can pay you better. In other words you are earning higher pay because you are more productive.
In a union shop you will be paid the same amount as sluggo because while the slugmeister does a sub par job he meets the basic requirements to keep his job and the contract dictates all mechanics earn 25.00 per hour. How long will you be motivated to continue working harder than the the guy next to you making the exact same amount of money you does? This is the problem with union employment in this day and age. 25 dollars an hour might be a fair price to pay a good mechanic but in a union environment you can't weed out the bad mechanics. You end up doing 30 dollar an hour work but because of the contract your employer couldn't pay you the 30 even if he wanted too. At the same time the company suffers because they have to pay 25 dollars to guys not worth 15. Productivity falls, profitability falls.
Say the shop you were working at was on a boarder town in Texas. The owner can move his shop 1/4 mile and be in Mexico where there is no unions. There he can hire a good mechanic for 15 an hour and rent and utilities are 30% less and taxes are 50% less. Instead of paying an American slug 25 an hour to fix the cars halfassed he instead pays another American slug 10 an hour to drive the car into Mexico so his good Mexican mechanics can fix the car for 15 an hour. For the same 25 an hour he gets the job done right only his taxes and overhead are much cheaper. Be kinda dumb not to move wouldn't it?
http:///forum/post/3059321
1. believing we live in an ideal world...
2. entry level jobs...
maybe this was the case a few years ago but we are constantly losing jobs over seas (sure, we pay more than they do so it causes prices to be higher), we are becoming a retail based country (and there is a lot of shuffling of papers and counting of beads)... all we do is sell what some other county makes... these jobs are no longer entry level jobs... they are the ones adults (even parents) are falling into and having to live off the pathetic checks they are receiving...
ok, your right, you can move up within this structure... where i work there is about a 1:10 ratio of managers to workers, lets assume they dont hire managers from outside the store/company (which they do), this gives the employees a 1 in 10 chance to get promoted... sure, you can work your butt off and be ahead of all your fellow employees, but what about them once you get the job??? better luck next time??? keep making crap until you do better??? is this really your suggestion???
another personal example of this, in order to become a manager at my place of work you have to take this managers training course, they open it about once every 3 months... the last 2 times they have accepted 2 people from the region, out of 71 stores... our store has about 150 people, most of the others have more (even though ours is the top earning store in the region [and then they wonder why we finished last in customer service])... btw, i have nothing to do with the customer service, i work nights... how motivated should a person be to apply for a position when there are over 10,000 other people that can apply (i did this time, haven't heard anything)??? again i understand the point of 'shooting for the stars' and doing everything you can but this still leaves all the others behinds... and getting into this position doesnt guarantee you a manager job even if you complete it.
3. things are the same as they were in the '80s
I know this wasnt your argument but from your stance i bet you support this... is this really true... do you think wages have kept up with inflation??? look at the prices of houses in the last 10 years (excluding the last year; this is, in part, due to this discrepancy and more so to GREED and LACK OF GOVT OVERSIGHT)
btw, what are your degrees in and what do you do stdreb27???
Taz, Taz, Taz
Why do you think we are losing jobs overseas? The cost of doing business in this country has gotten out of hand. Between foolish government regulations (Notice I didn't say too much) and ridiculous union contracts heavy manufacturing, steel and other industries have moved to other countries.
I know I sorta used this example before but lets dig a little deeper into the scenario. Say you are a mechanic and a good one, you can fix 5 cars a day. The guy who works next to you shows up hungover most days and only fixes 3 on a good day and is rude to the customers. If your current employer doesn't pay you well you have the option of going to work for another shop who will. Most shops are competitive and will jump at the chance to hire a good employee. The slug next to you is stuck at the lower paying job because the shop paying better demands a better work product so they can pay you better. In other words you are earning higher pay because you are more productive.
In a union shop you will be paid the same amount as sluggo because while the slugmeister does a sub par job he meets the basic requirements to keep his job and the contract dictates all mechanics earn 25.00 per hour. How long will you be motivated to continue working harder than the the guy next to you making the exact same amount of money you does? This is the problem with union employment in this day and age. 25 dollars an hour might be a fair price to pay a good mechanic but in a union environment you can't weed out the bad mechanics. You end up doing 30 dollar an hour work but because of the contract your employer couldn't pay you the 30 even if he wanted too. At the same time the company suffers because they have to pay 25 dollars to guys not worth 15. Productivity falls, profitability falls.
Say the shop you were working at was on a boarder town in Texas. The owner can move his shop 1/4 mile and be in Mexico where there is no unions. There he can hire a good mechanic for 15 an hour and rent and utilities are 30% less and taxes are 50% less. Instead of paying an American slug 25 an hour to fix the cars halfassed he instead pays another American slug 10 an hour to drive the car into Mexico so his good Mexican mechanics can fix the car for 15 an hour. For the same 25 an hour he gets the job done right only his taxes and overhead are much cheaper. Be kinda dumb not to move wouldn't it?