Obama is the president elect Please use this thread to talk about and discuss it

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2837434
Yeah, watch this - Keeping BIG Government out of your personal lives, freedom...
What about freedom?
*Freedom to be born?
*Freedom to hunt?
*Freedom to own a business and be successful?
*Freedom from activist judges?
*Freedom to prosper?
*Freedom to own a gun?
*Freedom to be a Conservative on the radio?
*Freedom to drill for oil?

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2833832
Its quite out-dated. As we move from a production economy to a service economy, why base our definitions on something that only encompasses part of the economy?
I think this part got glossed over.
Hopefully everyone will enjoy trying to selling, almostly exclusively Chinese made, crap products in about 15 years. If you're not in the hospitality, travel, professional(doctor/laywer/athlete), service/repair, or selling of goods fields, get there. They'll be the only jobs left. Probably the most depressing part about life in the future

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2837667
What about freedom?
*Freedom to be born?
*Freedom to hunt?
*Freedom to own a business and be successful?
*Freedom from activist judges?
*Freedom to prosper?
*Freedom to own a gun?
*Freedom to be a Conservative on the radio?
*Freedom to drill for oil?
We have all those Freedoms... Except this one:
*Freedom from the Tyranny of Big Fossil Fuel Company monopolies. NOT yet, but hopefully in my lifetime. A Declaration of Renewable Energy Independence. It's all about Freedom of choice!!!!
No fossil fuel monopolies without representation.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2837697
We have all those Freedoms... Except this one:
*Freedom from the Tyranny of Big Fossil Fuel Company monopolies. NOT yet, but hopefully in my lifetime. A Declaration of Renewable Energy Independence. It's all about Freedom of choice!!!!
No fossil fuel monopolies without representation.
Please explain... how are the oil companies considered a monopoly?
We have many of those freedoms still today, but Senator Obama and/or the leading Democrats are against each and every one of them...

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2837553
The declaration of independence very clearly lays out 3 things that the government is required to uphold.
We are not governed by the D of I, but by "WE the people" - the guidelines are outlined in the U.S. Constitution...
Thought I'd point this out.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2837697
We have all those Freedoms... Except this one:
*Freedom from the Tyranny of Big Fossil Fuel Company monopolies. NOT yet, but hopefully in my lifetime. A Declaration of Renewable Energy Independence. It's all about Freedom of choice!!!!
No fossil fuel monopolies without representation.
tyranny of big fossil fuel monopolies. (by definition you can't have monopolies in the same market.) Please explain?

 

[robbin]

We have many of those freedoms still today, but Senator Obama and/or the leading Democrats are against each and every one of them...
"says the pachyderm"

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2837697
We have all those Freedoms... Except this one:
*Freedom from the Tyranny of Big Fossil Fuel Company monopolies. NOT yet, but hopefully in my lifetime. A Declaration of Renewable Energy Independence. It's all about Freedom of choice!!!!
No fossil fuel monopolies without representation.
And you don't think big corporations are going to control the alternative energy sources too? Don't choke on the koolaide. Fossil fuel companies are no better or worse than any others.

 

[sickboy]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2837649
You joke about us calling Obama's policies socialist; I ask you, do you really know what his positions are?
As opposed to McCain? Are you kidding? All that guy could do was say 'cut spend, he's a socialist, $5,000 health insurance credit, he's a terrorist' over and over. And how do you know what McCain's policy in Iraq was?? He was the one who said we shouldn't telegraph our moves, so you were blindly following??
Just because I didn't know a couple phrases he said does not mean I didn't know his stances. And yes, I disagree with him on many things, third trimester abortion and gun control are two of them. But I disagreed with even more of McCain's. In my head the lesser of two evils was Obama. Neither is perfect, and anyone who claims they were is rediculous.

 

[sickboy]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2837649
Baghdad; in the International Zone.

Right in the heart of it huh?? So, lets say there wasn't a war going on. Is it kind of cool over there? i see these pics and I think it looks like a really neat place to visit in say like 20 years (obviously after war is done and economy is restored completely). Is it kind of cool to know that you are in the cradle of civilization?
I'm just curious like that. I have asked my friends in the service the same thing about Afghanistan.

 

[sickboy]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2837553
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —"
How many times has the interpretation of this changed? First it was only white, male landowners, then all males, then women, then 50 years later, african americans.
What is my point? Both this and the constitution are up to interpretation and people always think their way is the only way.

 

[sickboy]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2837672
I think this part got glossed over.
Hopefully everyone will enjoy trying to selling, almostly exclusively Chinese made, crap products in about 15 years. If you're not in the hospitality, travel, professional(doctor/laywer/athlete), service/repair, or selling of goods fields, get there. They'll be the only jobs left. Probably the most depressing part about life in the future

Yeah, I think it did get glossed over. But this is why I personally put so much emphasis on education. We are falling behind educationally, and the only way that moving from production to service will work is if we have the BEST education in the world. But as I hear every day from my wife (high school math teacher), the kids don't try, they can't force them to try per laws enacted, and the parents are not involved in their education and think it is ALL on the teachers. Did you know that in Omaha, and several cities around the country, in grade school and middle school you can't fail a kid? It supposedly hurts their self esteem. So you just keep passing them along without them learning anything! And we wonder why there are so many "stupid" kids out there...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2837939
How many times has the interpretation of this changed? First it was only white, male landowners, then all males, then women, then 50 years later, african americans.
What is my point? Both this and the constitution are up to interpretation and people always think their way is the only way.
And what is your point? He zman was trying to equate government regulating abortion with big government. And that my views weren't consistent. To which I replied that government involvement is required, and the governments got is to ensure life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I think it is pretty clear when it says All men, What you are seeing is the government straying from the language written in the declaration if independent when they did impose restrictions based on color and gender.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2837932
As opposed to McCain? Are you kidding? All that guy could do was say 'cut spend, he's a socialist, $5,000 health insurance credit, he's a terrorist' over and over. And how do you know what McCain's policy in Iraq was?? He was the one who said we shouldn't telegraph our moves, so you were blindly following??
Just because I didn't know a couple phrases he said does not mean I didn't know his stances. And yes, I disagree with him on many things, third trimester abortion and gun control are two of them. But I disagreed with even more of McCain's. In my head the lesser of two evils was Obama. Neither is perfect, and anyone who claims they were is rediculous.
What are you complaining about McCain is as liberal as a republican can be and still call himself a republican. But compared to obama there was a big difference.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2837949
Yeah, I think it did get glossed over. But this is why I personally put so much emphasis on education. We are falling behind educationally, and the only way that moving from production to service will work is if we have the BEST education in the world. But as I hear every day from my wife (high school math teacher), the kids don't try, they can't force them to try per laws enacted, and the parents are not involved in their education and think it is ALL on the teachers. Did you know that in Omaha, and several cities around the country, in grade school and middle school you can't fail a kid? It supposedly hurts their self esteem. So you just keep passing them along without them learning anything! And we wonder why there are so many "stupid" kids out there...
Not sure I agree entirely with that. It would be interesting to see the percentages of unskilled workers in the production field, vs. service fields. If anything, I'd think service would have more unskilled, more dishwashers, more salesmen, etc. Having too many educated people (as horrible as that sounds) would throw a wrench into the service economy. As where things like the days of U.S. engineers are limited...

 

[sickboy]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2837959
What are you complaining about McCain is as liberal as a republican can be and still call himself a republican. But compared to obama there was a big difference.
All I was trying to point out was that just because I didn't know one thing, doesn't mean I didn't make what I feel was an informed decision. Of course, I ranted a bit while doing it, but really when don't I??

 

[sickboy]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2837960
Not sure I agree entirely with that. It would be interesting to see the percentages of unskilled workers in the production field, vs. service fields. If anything, I'd think service would have more unskilled, more dishwashers, more salesmen, etc. Having too many educated people (as horrible as that sounds) would throw a wrench into the service economy. As where things like the days of U.S. engineers are limited...
If you don't have the jobs, then yes too many educated workers could be a problem. But non-production jobs do not have to be unskilled jobs. More in math, science, computers, etc. I can't say exactly what they would be doing because the way innovation works, but 40-50 years ago did anyone think two people, one from Nebraska the other Florida, would be having an instantaneous debate on a message board without traveling?

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2837965
If you don't have the jobs, then yes too many educated workers could be a problem. But non-production jobs do not have to be unskilled jobs. More in math, science, computers, etc. I can't say exactly what they would be doing because the way innovation works, but 40-50 years ago did anyone think two people, one from Nebraska the other Florida, would be having an instantaneous debate on a message board without traveling?
Well yea, there definitely is more then unskilled non-production jobs (lord knows we need more lawyers for instance

). But I just meant it on a case by case based. Like comparing a restuarant to a small, maybe even single item manufacture. What skilled jobs does the restuarant have? The manufacture is guaranteed to at least have an accountant and an engineer.
One could also agrue the only way stuff gets invented, is by companies trying to improve their products. Perhaps I did overlook that some service industries like telecommunications is still on the cutting edge. I still think with the rise of other countries, the invention/innovation will start to decrease here.
But you are right, definitely hard to predict the future...

 

[stdreb27]

Personally if they get labor costs under control manufacturing in the US will be fine. The problem is that gm pays uneducated people 100k to put in dashboards and stuff. They are failing to properly price labor.
We still have the most productive workforce. (despite unions) The problem i see in manufacting is that wages are not based on productivity but tenure. And tenure isn't making the company any money.

 

[mr.reef]

i know many people were like well obama is black and its wrong.... but thats not the problem with me... he wants to take all guns, he is going to give people that sit on there butts money to do nothing when there r hard working people paying for them.. why should we have to pay for them if we made them get out and do something we would not have this problem BUTTTT no lets just keep giving them money and he says that all the soldiers need to come out but if u ask any of them they same that why does he think that we r not doing anything we r risking r lifes over there so that yall can be safe in yall house.....