Obama supporters. I have one question

bdhutier

Member

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2498141
other states too
Colorado, Delaware, Massachusetts, Missouri and Texas
also allow “present” votes or similar options in at least one chamber, according to a recent review of chamber rules by the National Conference of State Legislatures.
I'm a transplant... doesn't hurt my feelings any. I'm surprised my home state is intelligent enough to have a legislature!
 

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by bdhutier
http:///forum/post/2498140
The GI Bill is not a VA program. Most states have state-school tuition programs, usually related to Res/NG service.
Your correct for tution not VA but you apply for it through VA, correct?
Il is not just Res/NG service...
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2498045
May be hard to understand - Politics - give and take
By Daniel C. Vock
'Present' votes defended by Ill. lawmakers
In most legislatures, lawmakers vote either “yes” or “no” on bills, but in Illinois, senators and representatives can hit a third button for a “present” vote. Now that quirk — not unique to Illinois — has sparked heated exchanges among Democrats vying for president.
The two main rivals of Illinois’ U.S. Sen. Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination accused him during a debate Monday (Jan. 21) of ducking important votes by voting “present” about 130 times during his eight years in the Illinois Senate.
But Obama’s former colleagues who still serve in the Illinois Capitol say that the attacks are off-base and that either Obama’s opponents don’t understand how things work in Springfield or they are deliberately distorting his record.
“To insinuate the ‘present’ vote means you’re indecisive, that you don’t have the courage to hold public office, that’s a stretch. But, it’s good politics,” said state Rep. Bill Black (R), a 22-year veteran of the House and his party’s floor leader.
In fact, he said, Illinois legislators get attacked for their “present” votes nearly every campaign season. “It’s always been a campaign gimmick, really. If you vote ‘present’ once in 23 years, somebody will bring it up.”
The “present” vote in Illinois is sometimes cast by state lawmakers with a conflict of interest who would rather not weigh in on an issue. Other times, members use the option to object to certain parts of a bill, even though they may agree with its overall purpose.
“The ‘present’ vote is used, especially by more thoughtful legislators, not as a means of avoiding taking a position on an issue, but as a means of signaling concerns about an issue,” said state Rep. John Fritchey (D), an Obama supporter.
The Land of Lincoln isn’t the only state where lawmakers can register their displeasure without actually voting against a bill. Colorado, Delaware, Massachusetts, Missouri and Texas also allow “present” votes or similar options in at least one chamber, according to a recent review of chamber rules by the National Conference of State Legislatures.

With Obama, any defense really does not matter regarding voting present 130 times and the reason why. I have already quoted his book on this thread where he states you MUST vote yes or no on bills. He does not mention within that statment not voiting or voting present as an option. He violated his own principle 130 times.

Obama and the Democrats were in the minority in the Illinois Senate, in the "Audacity of Hope" (page 130), Obama explained that even as a legislator in the minority, "You must vote yes or no on whatever bill comes up, with the knowledge that it's unlikely to be a compromise that either you or your supporters consider fair and or just."
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2498062
...That's providing you read the previous article in whole.... It's doesn't lend itself to the bashing wearing blinders methodology but could be an alternative, correct?
Had you read this entire thread you would have seen we've already covered this. Obama's "Present", in Il., votes were discussed at length, including how often it was cast when it was NOT part of his parties strategy.
 

bdhutier

Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2498148
Your correct for tution not VA but you apply for it through VA, correct?
Il is not just Res/NG service...
MGIB benifitts are applied for through the DVA. They determine eligibility, and remaining benefit. As for the state benefits, Texas in not just Res/NG either... just pointing Ill is not alone.
 

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2498156
Obama and the Democrats were in the minority in the Illinois Senate, in the "Audacity of Hope" (page 130), Obama explained that even as a legislator in the minority, "You must vote yes or no on whatever bill comes up, with the knowledge that it's unlikely to be a compromise that either you or your supporters consider fair and or just."
I have seen the Anti -Obama web sites quoting page numbers from his book before too...
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Some examples of "Present" votes in Il by Obombus.
*1997, Obama voted "present" on two bills (HB 382 and SB 230) that would have prohibited a procedure often referred to as partial birth abortion.
*Voted "present" on SB 71, which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses.
*In 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds. The bill passed the state Senate 52-1.
*Also in 1999, Obama voted "present" on HB 854 that protected the privacy of ----abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed. He was the only member to not support the bill
.
*(My favorites
)In 2001, Obama voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if it survived a failed abortion

*And finally in 2001, Obama voted "present" on SB 609, a bill prohibiting strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ent_obama.html)
For a guy that says he's not beholden to any lobbyists, he sure seems to kiss up to the Pro Choice Lobby... He doesn't even have the decency to say a child born during a botched abortion should be allowed to live???
EDIT: Oh, you know what? I bet he just accidentally pushed the wrong button, again...
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2498171
I have seen the Anti -Obama web sites quoting page numbers from his book before too...
Did he state it? Is it factual or made up?
Also, another option of the present vote is political cover.
 

zman1

Active Member

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2498172
Some examples of "Present" votes in Il by Obombus.
*1997, Obama voted "present" on two bills (HB 382 and SB 230) that would have prohibited a procedure often referred to as partial birth abortion.
*Voted "present" on SB 71, which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses.
*In 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds. The bill passed the state Senate 52-1.
*Also in 1999, Obama voted "present" on HB 854 that protected the privacy of ----abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed. He was the only member to not support the bill
.
*(My favorites
)In 2001, Obama voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if it survived a failed abortion

*And finally in 2001, Obama voted "present" on SB 609, a bill prohibiting strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ent_obama.html)
For a guy that says he's not beholden to any lobbyists, he sure seems to kiss up to the Pro Choice Lobby... He doesn't even have the decency to say a child born during a botched abortion should be allowed to live???
EDIT: Oh, you know what? I bet he just accidentally pushed the wrong button, again...
I have read that also - how many more are left of the 129 total just to get those out of the way -then we can start on the other 4000 that were yes and no, correct?
 

stdreb27

Active Member
I don't understand why people are harping on obama for his present votes. Unfortunately senators disenfranchise their constituency all the time with a "present" or a non-vote. The real problem with his practice isn't the fact that he didn't make up his mind. That is fine. The real problem is that HE PLAYS POLITICS with the best of them... How can you be an "emmisary of change" if you are a team democratic player? He is letting the political game dictate how he votes. And that is great, shoots a big hole in his message.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2497747
McCain's voting record on the Bush tax cuts were against it twice. I believe he said in effect, it isn't the appropriate thing to do during the time of war. Which is what I like about McCain not afraid to stand his ground on his beliefs.
Now that is what he has said, at the time he was
“There’s one big difference between me and the others–I won’t take every last dime of the surplus and spend it on tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthy.” [McCain campaign commercial, January 2000]
“I am disappointed that the Senate Finance Committee preferred instead to cut the top tax rate of 39.6% to 36%, thereby granting generous tax relief to the wealthiest individuals of our country at the expense of lower- and middle-income American taxpayers.” [McCain Senate floor statement, May 21, 2001]
“But when you look at the percentage of the tax cuts that–as the previous tax cuts–that go to the wealthiest Americans, you will find that the bulk of it, again, goes to wealthiest Americans.” [NBC’s “Today,” Jan. 7, 2003]
McCain now appears more interested in protecting the “wealthy
Those are echoing liberal anti-tax cut arguments.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2498193
I have read that also - how many more are left of the 129 total just to get those out of the way -then we can start on the other 4000 that were yes and no, correct?
Let's discuss these for now. We can cover his other voting habits a bit later.
Picture an abortion clinic... During the partial birth abortion the Dr. messes up, a contraction comes to quickly, and the baby slides completely out of the birth canal. Now the Dr. has a baby, that just moments ago, he was about to stick scissors through the skull of and then to suck out it's brains.
Obama voted "Present" on a bill that would protect the above newborn babie's life.
 

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2498205
I don't understand why people are harping on obama for his present votes. Unfortunately senators disenfranchise their constituency all the time with a "present" or a non-vote.
The real problem with his practice isn't the fact that he didn't make up his mind. That is fine. The real problem is that HE PLAYS POLITICS
with the best of them... How can you be an "emmisary of change
" if you are a team democratic player? He is letting the political game dictate how he votes. And that is great, shoots a big hole in his message.
We're not attacking his "Present" voting per se, we're attacking his dodging key issues for the sake of politics. Look at my above examples...
 

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2498209
Now that is what he has said

I like the way you work. You try to give me reasons to vote for your guy instead of all the negative reasons to not vote for the other guy.... The two have to crossover at times, but I would rather hear what McCain and Obama can do for the nation more than what each can't.
Hope this makes sense.
I am an independent from Illinois leaning towards Obama. I have voted republican most of the time.. To include the first term of GW and only abstained once in my life, the GW second term. I didn't like the democrat either that time.
 

fish master

Member
Our Boy Came Home From School Today And Said Go Obama,we Were So Sad.how Could Anyone Want Him To Win. You Cant Put Someone In The White House With No Experience.i Cant Believe People Are So Stupid.he Keeps Saying We Need Change But Doesnt Tell How Hes Going To Change.hes Got The Gift To Gap,thats It.if He Makes President We Are All Going To Be In Trouble.when You Have Someone Like Jesse Jackson Backing You,it Cant Be Good.i Personaly Think He Is The Anti Crist
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Zman, typically I would agree with you.
In this case, however, a much bigger "picture" is at play.
Obama and Hillary are both Socialists. This election isn't between Republicans and Democrats, it's between Captialism and Socialism.
That's why you are seeing so much anti-obama info posted. Many of us don't like McCain for a variety of reasons. We do, however, value the Constitution and capitalism.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2498193
I have read that also - how many more are left of the 129 total just to get those out of the way -then we can start on the other 4000 that were yes and no, correct?
Let's start on why he voted present at all.....his stated position is you should vote yes or no.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
1journeyman;2498245 said:
.
Obama and Hillary are both Socialists. This election isn't between Republicans and Democrats, it's between Captialism and Socialism.
QUOTE]
I've been beating that drum for a week or more!
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2498242
Our Boy Came Home From School Today And Said Go Obama,we Were So Sad.how Could Anyone Want Him To Win. You Cant Put Someone In The White House With No Experience.i Cant Believe People Are So Stupid.he Keeps Saying We Need Change But Doesnt Tell How Hes Going To Change.hes Got The Gift To Gap,thats It.if He Makes President We Are All Going To Be In Trouble.when You Have Someone Like Jesse Jackson Backing You,it Cant Be Good.i Personaly Think He Is The Anti Crist
I agree with some of what you are saying but I do not think Obama is the anti-christ. I do beleive he is a supporter of racism given his continued church membership. THe church magazine honored Farrakahn plus the minister teachings contain hate, racist views and profanity. The overall message supported by Obama from his church and its leader is not one of unity and is contrary to his mantra. IMO...you can say things....but if your action or inaction is contrary to what you say...where do you really "stand"?
 

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
http:///forum/post/2498282
Let's start on why he voted present at all.....his stated position is you should vote yes or no.

Must have been a typo - send in a suggestion to the publisher for a correction
I understand you are a bean counter and deal with absolutes. How many times are you going to count your same beans and spout the same results?
 
Top