obama the begger

bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494833
Without the credit how many would they sell? A lot less than now. I figure things on a 7 year time frame. It doesn't make sense to pay the extra money for the Hybrid in our case. Wasn't even close in fact.
If 0bama isn't issuing permits he's holding down production. Numbers aren't tweaked. I posted straight from the government website. You can ignore the facts all you want but it doesn't change them.
Then don't buy one. If Chevy dropped the price around 10 grand, they'd fly out of the dealerships. They got a bad rap from the getgo with negative press, and people thinking they wouldn't provide the costs savings over the long run. Plus the fact the battery power is limited to 50 miles. If you're a commuter that doesn't spend half his time driving around in a car, or too lazy to walk down the road to a store instead of getting your fat butt behind the wheel, the Volt is an economical choice. Show me a gas car that can get 150MPG. The other issue is the "I have to have the newest" mentality. No one can keep a car longer than 5 years. Gotta trade in for the latest and greatest. Keep something like a Volt for 10 years, and it pays for itself. If gas was back down to $2.00/gallon like it was when the Volt first came out, then it wouldn't be economically feasible to own the car. When gas is sitting at $3.50/gallon, a Volt owner is laughing all the way to the bank. If you think drilling to high heaven will get gas prices back to those levels, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494840
LOL! I didn't realize the New York Times was a Neocon mouth piece.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html

Doctors Are Opting Out of Medicare
By JULIE CONNELLY
Published: April 1, 2009
"Many people, just as they become eligible for Medicare, discover that the insurance rug has been pulled out from under them. Some doctors — often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists — are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle."
Thats it LOL! All those docs are dropping out because they are able to triple bill and get overpaid LOL! Do you really believe what you are trying to shovel?
Dude, my wife has been an RN for 30 years. She's seen the double and triple billing first hand. You sit around reading some media crap, when I've seem first hand the abuses hospitals and doctors have done with Medicare payments through the years. Hell, it happened to my wife. Five years ago, she had to have a hysterectomy, and she had the procedure done in her own hospital. Her boss insisted she stay in her ICU unit during recovery, and I personally know every nurse that took care of her. My wife joked that I needed to keep track of all the expendibles, and count the Saline and other bags they put on the hanger while she was in recovery. When we got the bill, it was over $85,000. Our insurance covered everything except our $3000 deductible at the time. My wife sat down and looked at every billing detail, and she found about a 10% - 15% add-on of things she KNOWS they didn't use during her care. She took the bill into the hospital, sat down with a rep in the billing department, and they conveniently took those amounts off. She cut almost $7,000 off the original bill. And this was a healthcare plan her hospital paid part of the coverage for! LOLOLOL.
So now, put this same bill in front of a hospital that's billing Medicare. You can take that 10% and double or triple it. Why? Because of the multitude of government inefficiencies and lack of accounting when it came to reviewing Medicare bills. Doctors and hospitals knew this, and took full advantage of it. Now these doctor's are crying "But the reimbursement rates are too low! WAAAAH!" No, their cash cow was found out, and reality has set in. Doctor's will talk the talk, but they know where the money lies. Baby Boomers are getting older by the minute, and ailments increase by the day. They can try and get the 20 - 40 year old patients that may come in once or twice a year, or they can keep taking the Medicare patients where the office visits are 2 to 3 times that each year. Of course there's also all the tests they have to have, plus the multitude of pills they have to pop (which of course they recommend whatever drug some pharmacutical company provides him kickbacks for), so even with the lower Medicare payments they'll still make two the three times more than they would treating nothing but youngsters.
As far as specialists, I have no sympathy for them. I've had some neurological issues for years. I've been to neurologists, cardiologists, pulmonary specialists, you name it. The last neurologist I went to sat me on a table, poked my hands and feet a couple of times, stuck me a couple of times with some pins, then told me I didn't have a neuropathy and my symptoms weren't neurological. He gave me some muscle relaxer scripts, and suggested I may have some form of anxiety issues, so he tossed me a script for Xanax. I wasn't in his office for more than 30 minutes. When I got the bill, his charge rate for the office visit was $250. Yea, specialists are REALLY hurting...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494851
Then don't buy one. If Chevy dropped the price around 10 grand, they'd fly out of the dealerships. They got a bad rap from the getgo with negative press, and people thinking they wouldn't provide the costs savings over the long run. Plus the fact the battery power is limited to 50 miles. If you're a commuter that doesn't spend half his time driving around in a car, or too lazy to walk down the road to a store instead of getting your fat butt behind the wheel, the Volt is an economical choice. Show me a gas car that can get 150MPG. The other issue is the "I have to have the newest" mentality. No one can keep a car longer than 5 years. Gotta trade in for the latest and greatest. Keep something like a Volt for 10 years, and it pays for itself. If gas was back down to $2.00/gallon like it was when the Volt first came out, then it wouldn't be economically feasible to own the car. When gas is sitting at $3.50/gallon, a Volt owner is laughing all the way to the bank. If you think drilling to high heaven will get gas prices back to those levels, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.
The Volt wong get 150. It wont go 20 miles on a charge if you run the heater. Like I said I did my homework. I want an efficient car to take the load off my gas sucking F350
Don't take my word for it. Read what popular mechanics found and they turned off the heat/AC
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/electric/chevy-volt-range-tests
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494854
Dude, my wife has been an RN for 30 years. She's seen the double and triple billing first hand. You sit around reading some media crap, when I've seem first hand the abuses hospitals and doctors have done with Medicare payments through the years. Hell, it happened to my wife. Five years ago, she had to have a hysterectomy, and she had the procedure done in her own hospital. Her boss insisted she stay in her ICU unit during recovery, and I personally know every nurse that took care of her. My wife joked that I needed to keep track of all the expendibles, and count the Saline and other bags they put on the hanger while she was in recovery. When we got the bill, it was over $85,000. Our insurance covered everything except our $3000 deductible at the time. My wife sat down and looked at every billing detail, and she found about a 10% - 15% add-on of things she KNOWS they didn't use during her care. She took the bill into the hospital, sat down with a rep in the billing department, and they conveniently took those amounts off. She cut almost $7,000 off the original bill. And this was a healthcare plan her hospital paid part of the coverage for! LOLOLOL.
So now, put this same bill in front of a hospital that's billing Medicare. You can take that 10% and double or triple it. Why? Because of the multitude of government inefficiencies and lack of accounting when it came to reviewing Medicare bills. Doctors and hospitals knew this, and took full advantage of it. Now these doctor's are crying "But the reimbursement rates are too low! WAAAAH!" No, their cash cow was found out, and reality has set in. Doctor's will talk the talk, but they know where the money lies. Baby Boomers are getting older by the minute, and ailments increase by the day. They can try and get the 20 - 40 year old patients that may come in once or twice a year, or they can keep taking the Medicare patients where the office visits are 2 to 3 times that each year. Of course there's also all the tests they have to have, plus the multitude of pills they have to pop (which of course they recommend whatever drug some pharmacutical company provides him kickbacks for), so even with the lower Medicare payments they'll still make two the three times more than they would treating nothing but youngsters.
As far as specialists, I have no sympathy for them. I've had some neurological issues for years. I've been to neurologists, cardiologists, pulmonary specialists, you name it. The last neurologist I went to sat me on a table, poked my hands and feet a couple of times, stuck me a couple of times with some pins, then told me I didn't have a neuropathy and my symptoms weren't neurological. He gave me some muscle relaxer scripts, and suggested I may have some form of anxiety issues, so he tossed me a script for Xanax. I wasn't in his office for more than 30 minutes. When I got the bill, his charge rate for the office visit was $250. Yea, specialists are REALLY hurting...
Are you saying your wife is a party to medicare fraud where she works? If she sees it first hand.... She should blow the whistle. Her reward can be huge and she would be insulated from prosecution. Medicare doesn't mess around. The fines are huge. So are the rewards. The down side of getting caught is so large most places wont even think about it.
Like I said, your claim doesn't pass the smell test. If it was so easy to double bill doctors wouldn't be dropping out of the system as you holy scripture, the York Times reported in 2009. Of course I didn't have to read about it. I am in the system. I know first hand many doctors wont accept it. I also happen to be on workers comp. The state I am in the system in is Montana. Their deal with their preferred vendors for equipment is Medicare plus 15%. A couple years ago I had to order new crutches. We order through Harringtons surgical supply. They told us they were sending the crutches but were waiting to do the paper work because on these particular crutches Medicare rates plus 15% wasn't going to cover their costs and they wanted to negotiate for a higher price before billing. Yep, a real cash cow/
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494861
The Volt wong get 150. It wont go 20 miles on a charge if you run the heater. Like I said I did my homework. I want an efficient car to take the load off my gas sucking F350
Don't take my word for it. Read what popular mechanics found and they turned off the heat/AC
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/electric/chevy-volt-range-tests
Doing homework and actually driving one is two different things. We're still having 100 degree days where you have to run the AC the entire time. This guy shows me his IPhone app all the time that has all these statistics and data on his car, and he shows me the MPG he gets. I've never seen it under 100. Studies like Popular Mechanics get the car for a week or so, and they run some standard test set to validate what the car does. Go talk to people who actually own one and have been driving them for more than a month.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494861
The Volt wong get 150. It wont go 20 miles on a charge if you run the heater. Like I said I did my homework. I want an efficient car to take the load off my gas sucking F350
Don't take my word for it. Read what popular mechanics found and they turned off the heat/AC
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/electric/chevy-volt-range-tests
Interesting article. I hadn't heard of this test before. I get better mileage than that in my prius, at just over half the sticker price! For me, the hybrid made financial sense. Starting in 2011 Toyota stopped making the Prius in a gas only version and dropped the price significantly. Sticker price on mine when I bought it in June 2011 was right around 23K. Before than I had a 2006 4Runner. I drive about 60 miles round trip each day for work and probably another 100 miles over the weekend. I was spending, on average, $130-$150 a week on gas with the truck. Now I spend right around $40 a week. I definitely gave up on cargo space, but my wife drives a van so we haven't missed that too much. Toyota states that the Prius will get 51 city and 49 hwy MPG. I have found that in reality it averages about 45 mpg.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494863
Are you saying your wife is a party to medicare fraud where she works? If she sees it first hand.... She should blow the whistle. Her reward can be huge and she would be insulated from prosecution. Medicare doesn't mess around. The fines are huge. So are the rewards. The down side of getting caught is so large most places wont even think about it.
Like I said, your claim doesn't pass the smell test. If it was so easy to double bill doctors wouldn't be dropping out of the system as you holy scripture, the York Times reported in 2009. Of course I didn't have to read about it. I am in the system. I know first hand many doctors wont accept it. I also happen to be on workers comp. The state I am in the system in is Montana. Their deal with their preferred vendors for equipment is Medicare plus 15%. A couple years ago I had to order new crutches. We order through Harringtons surgical supply. They told us they were sending the crutches but were waiting to do the paper work because on these particular crutches Medicare rates plus 15% wasn't going to cover their costs and they wanted to negotiate for a higher price before billing. Yep, a real cash cow/
My wife puts into their computer system everything she uses and dispenses to a patient. What the hospital does with that information after its entered, she doesn't have a clue. She's had auditors call her and ask her input about what she provided to a patient, and she tells them specifically what she used and how much she used. She doesn't hide a thing.
I read the bill. I sat there with her and watched her go through it saying "I didn't receive that. They only used 3 of those, not 6....."She showed me the reduced bill when she got home. You don't believe it, I could really care less. There's professional services now that do the same thing for patients who are stuck with the bill because they don't have decent insurance to pay for the exhorbitant costs. I saw a story about it on Dateline a few years back. Hospitals and doctors padding bills is nothing new. Go work in the industry for a while. It would be a big eye opener
Montana? I have more doctors and medical services 5 miles down the street than you have in the entire state. Of course doctors and facilities can be picky. No competition. You need to call the Scooter Store. They're based right up the road in New Braunfels. They hawk these fancy electric scooters, and run these commercial saying "If you have Medicare, you can qualify to get a scooter for free." Medicare recently cracked down on them for billing abuse, and they immediately laid off 10% of their employees. Why? Because they'd tell patients all they need was a prescription from their doctor stating they needed mobile assistance, and they could submit a claim to Medicare to pay for the scooter. A local TV station interviewed one guy, and he said "Yea, I went in and looked at their products, and they had a basic model for around $1500 that would work fine with me. The salesman told me "Oh no. Get a presciption from your doctor, and I can get you this $5000 model for free!" I told him that the lower-end model would suffice, and they kept insisiting I get the Cadillac version because Medicare would pick up the entire tab." Yea, a real cash cow!
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494883
Doing homework and actually driving one is two different things. We're still having 100 degree days where you have to run the AC the entire time. This guy shows me his IPhone app all the time that has all these statistics and data on his car, and he shows me the MPG he gets. I've never seen it under 100. Studies like Popular Mechanics get the car for a week or so, and they run some standard test set to validate what the car does. Go talk to people who actually own one and have been driving them for more than a month.
In an area with mild climates and people making short trips they might make sense. I just checked again and it was 25 miles on a full 12 hour charge with the heater running driving on flat ground. Like I said, doesn't make sense for us, not for 40 grand. They do have the right idea as far as being a plugin with a gas backup so you don't get left stranded. The reason hybrids don't make sense in our case is we are looking for something suitable for road trips. We were looking at the Escape and the road mileage for the Hybrid was the same as the gasser, for 8 grand more it just doesn't make sense. Might have to look at the Prius minivan looking thing. It's hard to find a "car" I can sit in without reclining the seat so there is enough headroom. Still thinking the Turbo Diesel is going to be the winner.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494886
My wife puts into their computer system everything she uses and dispenses to a patient. What the hospital does with that information after its entered, she doesn't have a clue. She's had auditors call her and ask her input about what she provided to a patient, and she tells them specifically what she used and how much she used. She doesn't hide a thing.
I read the bill. I sat there with her and watched her go through it saying "I didn't receive that. They only used 3 of those, not 6....."She showed me the reduced bill when she got home. You don't believe it, I could really care less. There's professional services now that do the same thing for patients who are stuck with the bill because they don't have decent insurance to pay for the exhorbitant costs. I saw a story about it on Dateline a few years back. Hospitals and doctors padding bills is nothing new. Go work in the industry for a while. It would be a big eye opener
Montana? I have more doctors and medical services 5 miles down the street than you have in the entire state. Of course doctors and facilities can be picky. No competition. You need to call the Scooter Store. They're based right up the road in New Braunfels. They hawk these fancy electric scooters, and run these commercial saying "If you have Medicare, you can qualify to get a scooter for free." Medicare recently cracked down on them for billing abuse, and they immediately laid off 10% of their employees. Why? Because they'd tell patients all they need was a prescription from their doctor stating they needed mobile assistance, and they could submit a claim to Medicare to pay for the scooter. A local TV station interviewed one guy, and he said "Yea, I went in and looked at their products, and they had a basic model for around $1500 that would work fine with me. The salesman told me "Oh no. Get a presciption from your doctor, and I can get you this $5000 model for free!" I told him that the lower-end model would suffice, and they kept insisiting I get the Cadillac version because Medicare would pick up the entire tab." Yea, a real cash cow!
The bill you are talking about wasn't to medicare. Like I said, the fines are huge and most people are smart enough to understand it isn't worth the risk. I can find you dozens more articles about the problems finding docs to accept medicare and it's gonna get a lot worse.
I am now in the Denver area, It was harder to find a doc here. And the area of Montana I lived it (Missoula) is a regional medical hub so there are a lot of Docs there. People from Idaho and Canada are commonly there seeking treatment.
Oh, those scooters? Watch the commercial. "With Medicare, and your private insurance, there's no cost to you". We are looking into one of those for my Sister in law. She's wheel chair bound and has a bum shoulder so she doesn't get out of her room as much as she should.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
My wife puts into their computer system everything she uses and dispenses to a patient.  What the hospital does with that information after its entered, she doesn't have a clue.  She's had auditors call her and ask her input about what she provided to a patient, and she tells them specifically what she used and how much she used.  She doesn't hide a thing.
I read the bill. I sat there with her and watched her go through it saying "I didn't receive that.  They only used 3 of those, not 6....."She showed me the reduced bill when she got home.  You don't believe it, I could really care less.  There's professional services now that do the same thing for patients who are stuck with the bill because they don't have decent insurance to pay for the exhorbitant costs.  I saw a story about it on Dateline a few years back.  Hospitals and doctors padding bills is nothing new.  Go work in the industry for a while.  It would be a big eye opener
Montana?  I have more doctors and medical services 5 miles down the street than you have in the entire state.  Of course doctors and facilities can be picky.  No competition.  You need to call the Scooter Store.  They're based right up the road in New Braunfels.  They hawk these fancy electric scooters, and run these commercial saying "If you have Medicare, you can qualify to get a scooter for free."  Medicare recently cracked down on them for billing abuse, and they immediately laid off 10% of their employees.  Why?  Because they'd tell patients all they need was a prescription from their doctor stating they needed mobile assistance, and they could submit a claim to Medicare to pay for the scooter.  A local TV station interviewed one guy, and he said "Yea, I went in and looked at their products, and they had a basic model for around $1500 that would work fine with me.  The salesman told me "Oh no.  Get a presciption from your doctor, and I can get you this $5000 model for free!"  I told him that the lower-end model would suffice, and they kept insisiting I get the Cadillac version because Medicare would pick up the entire tab."  Yea, a real cash cow!
Who's bills is your wife showing you? Almost sounds like doctor patient confidentiality violation.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494884
Interesting article. I hadn't heard of this test before. I get better mileage than that in my prius, at just over half the sticker price! For me, the hybrid made financial sense. Starting in 2011 Toyota stopped making the Prius in a gas only version and dropped the price significantly. Sticker price on mine when I bought it in June 2011 was right around 23K. Before than I had a 2006 4Runner. I drive about 60 miles round trip each day for work and probably another 100 miles over the weekend. I was spending, on average, $130-$150 a week on gas with the truck. Now I spend right around $40 a week. I definitely gave up on cargo space, but my wife drives a van so we haven't missed that too much. Toyota states that the Prius will get 51 city and 49 hwy MPG. I have found that in reality it averages about 45 mpg.
The price drop on the Prius makes it more attractive but I need something with some headroom,
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Then don't buy one.  If Chevy dropped the price around 10 grand, they'd fly out of the dealerships.  They got a bad rap from the getgo with negative press, and people thinking they wouldn't provide the costs savings over the long run.  Plus the fact the battery power is limited to 50 miles.  If you're a commuter that doesn't spend half his time driving around in a car, or too lazy to walk down the road to a store instead of getting your fat butt behind the wheel, the Volt is an economical choice.  Show me a gas car that can get 150MPG.  The other issue is the "I have to have the newest" mentality.  No one can keep a car longer than 5 years.  Gotta trade in for the latest and greatest.  Keep something like a Volt for 10 years, and it pays for itself.  If gas was back down to $2.00/gallon like it was when the Volt first came out, then it wouldn't be economically feasible to own the car.  When gas is sitting at $3.50/gallon, a Volt owner is laughing all the way to the bank.  If you think drilling to high heaven will get gas prices back to those levels, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.
Do you own a volt or similar vehicle?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494890
In an area with mild climates and people making short trips they might make sense. I just checked again and it was 25 miles on a full 12 hour charge with the heater running driving on flat ground. Like I said, doesn't make sense for us, not for 40 grand. They do have the right idea as far as being a plugin with a gas backup so you don't get left stranded. The reason hybrids don't make sense in our case is we are looking for something suitable for road trips. We were looking at the Escape and the road mileage for the Hybrid was the same as the gasser, for 8 grand more it just doesn't make sense. Might have to look at the Prius minivan looking thing. It's hard to find a "car" I can sit in without reclining the seat so there is enough headroom. Still thinking the Turbo Diesel is going to be the winner.
Ford has recently announced a hybrid or full-electric model that was supposed to be out later this year, but now is n't coming out until January or February. This guy with the Volt was seriously looking at these, but he didn't care for the body style:
http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/?fmccmp=fvlp-gt-et-ev-clickin
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494908
Ford has recently announced a hybrid or full-electric model that was supposed to be out later this year, but now is n't coming out until January or February. This guy with the Volt was seriously looking at these, but he didn't care for the body style:
http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/?fmccmp=fvlp-gt-et-ev-clickin
Yeah, pure electric is out of the question for what we need. I REALLY wish more people made natural gas cars. Thought about changing my truck over but the conversion kit is like 6 grand. It will run on alcohol but it isn't worth running with the prices where they are now.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494910
I have a 2012 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. Here in town I average around 36 - 38. The wife and I took a trip to Colorado this summer (Royal Gorge to Pikes Peak to Garden Of The Gods) and I averaged around 42.
Korean rolling coffin LOL! When we were looking for the wife's car the Sonata, Nissan Altima and the Saturn Aura were all on the list. I think she picked the Saturn because because it has paddle shifters LOL! It came down between the Saturn and the Sonata. I don't remember why she picked the Saturn. I like those big Hyundais (Avalon?) but she didn't.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494909
Lil over 6'5" Also have to deal with a hip that doesn't bend much.
I can definitely see the bum hip being a factor. Mine work fine and it can be tough folding myself into it sometimes. Once I'm in its fine but getting in and out can be rough sometimes, especially if my back is stiff.
 
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