obama the begger

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/120#post_3494912
Yeah, pure electric is out of the question for what we need. I REALLY wish more people made natural gas cars. Thought about changing my truck over but the conversion kit is like 6 grand. It will run on alcohol but it isn't worth running with the prices where they are now.
The Houston Medical Center had this online auction for a bunch of medical devices and other stuff, but they also had a 1991 Toyota truck and a 2003 F250 Crew Cab with a 7' bed that only had 45,0000 miles on it, and both ran on natural gas (or it stated it had the NG conversion on it). I lost track of the closing date, but I think they both sold for around 3 grand. They were pretty beat up, but in hindsight I wish I'd picked one up. I had a Nissan Titan Crew Cab with the 7' bed that I traded in for this Sonata. Couldn't handle the 17 - 20 MPG I was getting in that beast. However, I miss not having a truck around to haul large loads in. Sucks when you need to pick up lumber, 1/2 yard of topsoil, or even hauling my mountain bike around.

 

[darthtang aw]

Then don't buy one.  If Chevy dropped the price around 10 grand, they'd fly out of the dealerships.  They got a bad rap from the getgo with negative press, and people thinking they wouldn't provide the costs savings over the long run.  Plus the fact the battery power is limited to 50 miles.  If you're a commuter that doesn't spend half his time driving around in a car, or too lazy to walk down the road to a store instead of getting your fat butt behind the wheel, the Volt is an economical choice.  Show me a gas car that can get 150MPG.  The other issue is the "I have to have the newest" mentality.  No one can keep a car longer than 5 years.  Gotta trade in for the latest and greatest.  Keep something like a Volt for 10 years, and it pays for itself.  If gas was back down to $2.00/gallon like it was when the Volt first came out, then it wouldn't be economically feasible to own the car.  When gas is sitting at $3.50/gallon, a Volt owner is laughing all the way to the bank.  If you think drilling to high heaven will get gas prices back to those levels, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.
A few points. No one knows if the batteries will last 10 years. Most warranties cover 8 years at the most. If you have to replace the cost of the battery will wipe out much of your savings.
The other thing no one is discussing is these are lithium Ion Batteries. Each time they are charged then drained the next charge does not hold as long...incrementally getting shorter and shorter. Anyone familiar with rechargeable lithium ion batteries has experienced this concept. So as time goes on...each charge time is the same, but will need to occur more frequently. If a battery lasted ten years, one would have to wonder what kind of range it would have at that point. Especially since this can not be tested for. And the warranties will not cover average battery range loss....so They know it will happen. What constitutes average loss....now that is the question.
A 40, 000 dollar price sticker on unproven LASTING technology is a hard pill to swallow.
The next question one has to wonder. The impact as a whole. The batteries are lithium...Lithium is only mined and found in a few countries. The U.S. is not one of them. Afghanistan is a major deposit holder. Guess we are still in the Middle East then. If we move away from gasoline cars, are we shooting ourselves in the foot by becoming beholden to these Lithium owning Countries?
Some one mentioned environmental disposal being a problem. This is one aspect that is not a concern. They are easily disposed of and in fact I can forsee the spent used batteries being sold to power companies to assist in smoothing out grid fluctuation or being retrofitted to store energy from solar and wind generating plants. The disposal is not an issue.
The argument that from an environmental standpoint they are better is not exactly true either. While they are better in some regions in others they are not. Since they have to be plugged in to charge this means the electricity generated is still causing almost equal amounts of polution depending on which area of the country you live in. Since some areas have cleaner forms of electricty production than others.
So, once a Smart person factors in all of this...it is hard to jump into a Volt in My opinion.

 

[slice]

Has anyone seen any studies on what it would do to our power grid and generating capacity if magically we all had "electric" cars?

 

[dragonzim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/140#post_3494936
A few points. No one knows if the batteries will last 10 years. Most warranties cover 8 years at the most. If you have to replace the cost of the battery will wipe out much of your savings.
The other thing no one is discussing is these are lithium Ion Batteries. Each time they are charged then drained the next charge does not hold as long...incrementally getting shorter and shorter. Anyone familiar with rechargeable lithium ion batteries has experienced this concept. So as time goes on...each charge time is the same, but will need to occur more frequently. If a battery lasted ten years, one would have to wonder what kind of range it would have at that point. Especially since this can not be tested for. And the warranties will not cover average battery range loss....so They know it will happen. What constitutes average loss....now that is the question.
A 40, 000 dollar price sticker on unproven LASTING technology is a hard pill to swallow.
The next question one has to wonder. The impact as a whole. The batteries are lithium...Lithium is only mined and found in a few countries. The U.S. is not one of them. Afghanistan is a major deposit holder. Guess we are still in the Middle East then. If we move away from gasoline cars, are we shooting ourselves in the foot by becoming beholden to these Lithium owning Countries?
Some one mentioned environmental disposal being a problem. This is one aspect that is not a concern. They are easily disposed of and in fact I can forsee the spent used batteries being sold to power companies to assist in smoothing out grid fluctuation or being retrofitted to store energy from solar and wind generating plants. The disposal is not an issue.
The argument that from an environmental standpoint they are better is not exactly true either. While they are better in some regions in others they are not. Since they have to be plugged in to charge this means the electricity generated is still causing almost equal amounts of polution depending on which area of the country you live in. Since some areas have cleaner forms of electricty production than others.
So, once a Smart person factors in all of this...it is hard to jump into a Volt in My opinion.
Anyone that buys a hybrid or a full electric car at this point thinking that they are helping the environment is crazy. The process of making the batteries is worse for the environment than burning gas. The Volt is currently the only car that is using Lithium Ion batteries. The Prrius, Saturn, Honda and Ford hybrids use NiMH
http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6259344/the-general-forum/prius-outdoes-hummer-in-environmental-damage-so-go/index.html
http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-production-waste-offset-hybrid-benefits1.htm

 

[reefraff]

I see a business opportunity here for someone to create a process to renew batteries. It would be worth a mountain of cash if you could somehow recondition the batteries with some sort of process you have done every 5 years or so.

 

[darthtang aw]

I see a business opportunity here for someone to create a process to renew batteries. It would be worth a mountain of cash if you could somehow recondition the batteries with some sort of process you have done every 5 years or so.
Not just renewal. The government had to give a company 9.8 million just to upgrade their facilities to handle destruction. To safely do it they are frozen to -325 degrees Farenheit then shredded while at that temperature. Right now they are currently the only facility in the U.S. with this capability.

 

[deejeff442]

6'3" and 6'5" were i am from thats a goon lol....just kidding jeez i am 5'10" and barely fit in my ford ranger.no way an electric car is practical around here.takes me 20 minutes from my house to the nearest thruway.also its great for inner city driving.but seems to me the country runs on 18 wheelers bringing all our daily goods.these trucks cant even run on gasoline so we are 10-30 years away from really putting a dent in saving oil dependency

 

[dragonzim]

I see a business opportunity here for someone to create a process to renew batteries. It would be worth a mountain of cash if you could somehow recondition the batteries with some sort of process you have done every 5 years or so.
I saw an article that said that they can recondition the batteries from hybrid cars to be used as storage arrays for residential and commercial solar installations.

 

[tangs rule]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger#post_3493911
Maybe Obama needs to just follow Romney's lead and simply have more of these $50,000/plate "get together's". Based on your response, you sound like one of those trailer trash bible thumpers in the backwoods of Alabama.
Sure thing sweet tits...... I'll support Obamubmer the instant his regime rejects money from Soros, NAMBLA, Unions, pedophiles, and child killers.... What's he got to run on.....crap economy, abortion run wild, everyone is gay, free money for loafers, and foreign policy is tottally f*cked.....get ready for 8 years of Romney and at least 4+ more of Ryan

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/140#post_3494963
Sure thing sweet tits...... I'll support Obamubmer the instant his regime rejects money from Soros, NAMBLA, Unions, pedophiles, and child killers.... What's he got to run on.....crap economy, abortion run wild, everyone is gay, free money for loafers, and foreign policy is tottally f*cked.....get ready for 8 years of Romney and at least 4+ more of Ryan

Who are the peds and child killers giving money?!?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/140#post_3494936
A few points. No one knows if the batteries will last 10 years. Most warranties cover 8 years at the most. If you have to replace the cost of the battery will wipe out much of your savings.
The other thing no one is discussing is these are lithium Ion Batteries. Each time they are charged then drained the next charge does not hold as long...incrementally getting shorter and shorter. Anyone familiar with rechargeable lithium ion batteries has experienced this concept. So as time goes on...each charge time is the same, but will need to occur more frequently. If a battery lasted ten years, one would have to wonder what kind of range it would have at that point. Especially since this can not be tested for. And the warranties will not cover average battery range loss....so They know it will happen. What constitutes average loss....now that is the question.
A 40, 000 dollar price sticker on unproven LASTING technology is a hard pill to swallow.
The next question one has to wonder. The impact as a whole. The batteries are lithium...Lithium is only mined and found in a few countries. The U.S. is not one of them. Afghanistan is a major deposit holder. Guess we are still in the Middle East then. If we move away from gasoline cars, are we shooting ourselves in the foot by becoming beholden to these Lithium owning Countries?
Some one mentioned environmental disposal being a problem. This is one aspect that is not a concern. They are easily disposed of and in fact I can forsee the spent used batteries being sold to power companies to assist in smoothing out grid fluctuation or being retrofitted to store energy from solar and wind generating plants. The disposal is not an issue.
The argument that from an environmental standpoint they are better is not exactly true either. While they are better in some regions in others they are not. Since they have to be plugged in to charge this means the electricity generated is still causing almost equal amounts of polution depending on which area of the country you live in. Since some areas have cleaner forms of electricty production than others.
So, once a Smart person factors in all of this...it is hard to jump into a Volt in My opinion.
My Volt guy says he got a 10 year/100,000 mile full replacement on the batteries. As far as Lithium Ion batteries, practically every portable electronic device being made uses them (laptops, cell phones, tablets, Ipod's, etc.). As far as energy use, using the standard charger to charge the batteries full overnight uses the same amount of electricity as doing one load of wash and dry in your standard washer/dryer. Also, the main purpose of the gas engine is to serve as a form of generator for the main electric engine. At the same time, it also performs a trickle charge on the batteries.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/140#post_3494963
Sure thing sweet tits...... I'll support Obamubmer the instant his regime rejects money from Soros, NAMBLA, Unions, pedophiles, and child killers.... What's he got to run on.....crap economy, abortion run wild, everyone is gay, free money for loafers, and foreign policy is tottally f*cked.....get ready for 8 years of Romney and at least 4+ more of Ryan

Someone forgot to take his meds today. Don't tell me. You're Honey Boo Boo's Dad. You have the mental capacity of a flea. If your brain was made of gas, there wouldn't be enough to run a sugar ants motorcycle around the inside of a Cheerio. You are the poster child of Romneyworld. You need to make more TV appearances. Just opening your mouth would give Obama a lock in November.

 

[bang guy]

I suppose we had to resort to insults.
Thread locked.