obama the begger

bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/80#post_3494747
I know you are going to say you don't care what I think, but this needs said.
I find it hard to believe you voted for Ron Paul at all.I find it hard to believe you even know what his 2008 platform was. Because if you had, the exact things you defend president Obama on,such as Healthcare, energy policy, and so on are completely counter to what Ron Paul believes in and stands for.Ron Paul would not have bailed out the auto industry and he would NOT have passed the stimulus bill. Both Bills he voted against. In fact I distinctly remember you bringing up and ridiculing Ron Paul's "ties" to the Klu Klux Klan and being a racist during the 2008 election discussions. THE ONLY STANCE RON PAUL AND OBAMA SHARE are their positions on the wars....which Obama did decrease one but escalated another...Neither of which Ron Paul supported.
So either you voted for a guy you have no clue what he stands for, or you are lying. I suppose there is a third option and you don't really support anything Obama has done and just defend these decisions for the hell of it....but I highly doubt that.
They also used to say it was impossible to elect anyone from outside the Whig and Democrat Party....Then came along a guy named Lincoln.................
Darth, I read Obama's healthcare initiative, and that's one of his platforms I did agree with. McCain, Ron Paul and the rest of them kept posturing their entire campaign what they may or may not do to find a way to fix our screwed up healthcare system, but never gave any details how they'd do it. You can claim Obamacare is some boondoggle that will break us, but at least it provides alternatives for around 45 million people who can't afford health insurance today. It's helped my family, as I have relatives that had medical issues, lost their work healthcare, and couldn't find another policy due to pre-existing conditions. I'm personally benefitting from it because my 20 year old daughter can now stay on my insurance plan until she's 26, which gives her time to complete her education and get a job that will provide her a decent healthcare plan. The stimulus bills came to life after he was elected. I don't recall hearing him saying he would specifically bail out GM and Chrysler during his 2007/2008 campaign. If he did, it wasn't one of the talking points that would sway my vote one way or the other. Bottom line, there was no way I'd vote for McCain, specifically because of his ignorant VP selection, and Obama had too many smoke and mirror promises that I knew he couldn't keep. I voted Ron Paul because he was the only other alternative. Like I said, my vote was irrelevent, as it will be this time. Maybe I need to move to Florida or Ohio, where my vote may make a difference. Oops, too late. Not enough time to change my residency to do that. Think I'll just skip that selection on the voting ballot, unless they have None Of The Above.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Bionic, I agree with you that at least President Obama did something. I'll give him a nod for that. I may not agree with all the details but it is something, ie. a starting place.
The 44 million statistic you stated doesn't sit well with me though. Of those 44 million a large percentage can afford the insurance, they just have other things they want instead. I'm not blaming anyone, just saying that for many of the uninsured it's a choice, not an impossible situation. Also many millions of those 44 million are already eligible for government free medical insurance but for whatever reason do not subscribe.
I'm only pointing this out because a fairly reasonable helping hand on partial coverage of insurance would not be overly expensive.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Darth, I read Obama's healthcare initiative, and that's one of his platforms I did agree with.  McCain, Ron Paul and the rest of them kept posturing their entire campaign what they may or may not do to find a way to fix our screwed up healthcare system, but never gave any details how they'd do it.  You can claim Obamacare is some boondoggle that will break us, but at least it provides alternatives for around 45 million people who can't afford health insurance today.  It's helped my family, as I have relatives that had medical issues, lost their work healthcare, and couldn't find another policy due to pre-existing conditions.  I'm personally benefitting from it because my 20 year old daughter can now stay on my insurance plan until she's 26, which gives her time to complete her education and get a job that will provide her a decent healthcare plan.  The stimulus bills came to life after he was elected.  I don't recall hearing him saying he would specifically bail out GM and Chrysler during his 2007/2008 campaign.  If he did, it wasn't one of the talking points that would sway my vote one way or the other.  Bottom line, there was no way I'd vote for McCain, specifically because of his ignorant VP selection, and Obama had too many smoke and mirror promises that I knew he couldn't keep.  I voted Ron Paul because he was the only other alternative.  Like I said, my vote was irrelevent, as it will be this time.  Maybe I need to move to Florida or Ohio, where my vote may make a difference.  Oops, too late.  Not enough time to change my residency to do that.  Think I'll just skip that selection on the voting ballot, unless they have None Of The Above.
There were five on the balot when I voted. Ron Paul was not your only alternative. No vote is a wasted vote. Even if cast to a losing candidate.each election the independent votes get bigger and bigger. Many are tired of the same washington crap so they move away. Many stay home because they is like both major candidates. The quality of candidates might change if people voted their heart versus voting against someone.
As for your Ron Paulvote,one only needed to look at How Obama and Ron Paul voted when it came to the Bank Bailouts to see how different they were.
Your 44 million uninsured number is compelling. I have some numbers as well.
55 million. The number of people on food stamps and medicaid.
19.8% the number of college graduations unable to find work
39% the number of underemployed and unemployed high school graduates.
108 million....the number of people receiving some form of welfare EXCLUDING social security and Medicare.
My main issue with Obama is he is misguided. During the worst of an Economic Crisis one would think the economy would be a top Priority. In fact the only priority, with the handling of the two wars being a close second. And I admit, the stimulus was his attempt. The bailouts as well...as misguided as they were. However immediately after thesehe went after healthcare while the country was still hurting in the basic needs departments. His actions on healthcare dicvided congress and the people further than even the bailouts did. Politics are a series of Baby steps. not quick sweeping strides. Not only did he make comments such as get out of my way, you lost. But he went after a piece of legislation the country did not need to be a high priority at the time. and just a few months after passing huge sweeping spending bills.
While the time was perfect for him to do so, this was the nail in the coffin of bringing the economy around.. the house change was a referendum against healthcare and over spending. It also created the stalemate we now have in Washington. Had Obama waited till his second term for a healthcare bill....we most likely would have better cohesion in Washington. But then again,the bailouts and stimulus made many very angry...so maybe not. Either way....a true leader understands people and those he has to work with. My point, Obama doesn't understand....and gives excuses when he cant get things done. If you can't be a leader and get things done or figure out how to get things done....you typically get fired in the real world.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/80#post_3494750
"No Hybrid BS"? I drive a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid, and I average 38MPG city/highway driving. A co-worker just bought a new Chevy Volt. The guy's become obsessed with what's known as "hyper miling". The average distance you're supposed to get on one charge is around 39 miles. Right now, he's averaging 50. It's about a 20 mile commute each way for his trek to work, and he says that he's had it for 3 weeks now and has only used 3 gallons of gas, and he's averaging 150MPG. He bought one of the upper-end models at a price of around $42,000, but he's getting a $7,500 direct credit on his tax return next year, so the cost comes down to $34,500. He also saves an average of $70/week in gas from his previous car. His ROI on this car as oppossed to buying even a Hybrid like mine is about 3 years (I paid $27,000 for my Sonata).
If the Volt is so great why the huge tax credit? GM had to shut the line down because they aren't selling anything close to their target.
Hybrid BS. Ford Escape. Hybrid 34 city, 31 highway. Gas 22 city 31 highway.. Price Gas 22K Hybrid 31K I did my homework. We were going to get a Hybrid. But most people report they don't get close to the claimed mileage. I know someone local with a Honda hybrid and he gets in the low 30's instead of in the 40's like it's supposed to. People don't realize it but if you run the heat or AC it really pulls down the mileage on those.
Volkswagon Passat Gas 22/32 diesel 31/43 Price gas 21K diesel 26K AND many people report getting better mileage that the advertised rating. I think Hybrids will eventually be the norm for all cars but I'll wait for the technology to catch up with the price. I know someone who is into the hyper mileage thing but he's a moron. He's driving a Scion and thinks shifting at like 1800 RPM's is getting him better gas mileage. I do a lot of the things they do when I drive my truck but that's so I don't have to have a tanker follow me around for refueling. I only get around 9 MPG in town :(
0bama is holding down oil production. There is no legitimate debate about that. The numbers don't lie. We could have higher production.I have nothing against alternative energy as long as it's encouraged and not heavily subsidized. We have another Solynda style deal going down in Oregon now. Big 0bama donor and government loan guarantee for someone jumping into a segment where China is dominating. If they want to give these folks tax breaks great but we shouldn't be dumping money into them.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/80#post_3494750
The only reason I posted what I did is because of your outlandish claims that Obama is somehow purposely trying to keep oil companies from drilling oil to formulate this evil plan to force everyone to go solar and wind. The fact is, there are more than enough leases available, but the oil diggers just don't want to spend the money right now to drill for it. Yet another Fox News "it's a national security issue" bleater. Like I said, that's the same phrase I hear from anyone who tries to justify why we need to drill for more oil in the US. I showed you statistics. If we got aggressive and started pumping oil out like crazy, and continue our current demand trends, that oil will be gone in 60 - 70 years. What then? Talk about "national security issuees." Senor Chavez would becaome our dearest friend. Hey maybe we can just invade and take over Canada, they have plenty. No, it is all about price. You're going to give some discount to power companies and large manufacturers to power their plants, or will they ghave to pay the same $8.00/gallon? The cost of goods will skyrocket, industries will come to a halt, unemployment rates will hit 40% (try going 15 miles one way on a bicycle to get to work), and chaos and anarchy will ensue. The Conservative/Republican base is already slamming the Feds about their new proposal of forcing auto manufacturers to have every vehicle run at least 52MPG by 2030 ( or somewhere around there). Now you say we're supposed to start thinking efficiency?
The fact is you are completely full of crap. I posted the story about the leases. 241 bids for 172 leases. When you have more bids than leases that means there is MORE DEMAND than supply. At plus 90 a barrel right now the oil companies are producing every drop they can. Natural gas is down but they are still drilling 24/7. There is a drilling boom here in Colorado. I can cite many stories from the Denver Post about the local land rush by the oil companies.
When the Arabs had their embargo in the 70's was it a national security issue??? OF COURSE IT WAS. To say our energy supply isn't a matter of national security is friggin absurd. The auto industry signed off on the latest MPG standards so I am not sure what you are talking about as far as people opposing it. There may be a few but overall it was a "whatever" moment from most people I heard talk about it.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Health care LOL! What is the biggest problem with health care? Anyone who lives in the real world with an IQ above a rock will answer the cost. If you bring the cost down IT MAKES ALL THE OTHER ISSUES INVOLVED IN HEALTH CARE MUCH EASIER TO DEAL WITH. In a time of extreme unemployment and decreasing personal income there was no more important issue to deal with in health care than the cost. If the government is going to pay for more people's health care bringing down the costs means we don't bust the budget as much. If you are going to force insurance companies to cover pre existing conditions or allow kids to stay on parent's policies longer lowering costs will mean less increases in premiums for everyone.
But what did captain Dufus do? He pushed a scheme that covers more people for more conditions. Hello? Increased demand leads to higher costs. Even if you believe the claims that this will eventually lower costs even the 0bamabots claim it will be about 10 years before the cost savings start to be realized. That isn't doing those people who have seen their income stagnate over the last 4 years a whole lot of good. But he did include a few bucks for a study of Tort reform LOL!!!
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494778
Health care LOL! What is the biggest problem with health care? Anyone who lives in the real world with an IQ above a rock will answer the cost. If you bring the cost down IT MAKES ALL THE OTHER ISSUES INVOLVED IN HEALTH CARE MUCH EASIER TO DEAL WITH. In a time of extreme unemployment and decreasing personal income there was no more important issue to deal with in health care than the cost. If the government is going to pay for more people's health care bringing down the costs means we don't bust the budget as much. If you are going to force insurance companies to cover pre existing conditions or allow kids to stay on parent's policies longer lowering costs will mean less increases in premiums for everyone.
But what did captain Dufus do? He pushed a scheme that covers more people for more conditions. Hello? Increased demand leads to higher costs. Even if you believe the claims that this will eventually lower costs even the 0bamabots claim it will be about 10 years before the cost savings start to be realized. That isn't doing those people who have seen their income stagnate over the last 4 years a whole lot of good. But he did include a few bucks for a study of Tort reform LOL!!!
You're free to disrespect our country if you wish, there's no policy against it. I just wish you would try to make your point without doing that though.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494778
Health care LOL! What is the biggest problem with health care? Anyone who lives in the real world with an IQ above a rock will answer the cost. If you bring the cost down IT MAKES ALL THE OTHER ISSUES INVOLVED IN HEALTH CARE MUCH EASIER TO DEAL WITH. In a time of extreme unemployment and decreasing personal income there was no more important issue to deal with in health care than the cost. If the government is going to pay for more people's health care bringing down the costs means we don't bust the budget as much. If you are going to force insurance companies to cover pre existing conditions or allow kids to stay on parent's policies longer lowering costs will mean less increases in premiums for everyone.
But what did captain Dufus do? He pushed a scheme that covers more people for more conditions. Hello? Increased demand leads to higher costs. Even if you believe the claims that this will eventually lower costs even the 0bamabots claim it will be about 10 years before the cost savings start to be realized. That isn't doing those people who have seen their income stagnate over the last 4 years a whole lot of good. But he did include a few bucks for a study of Tort reform LOL!!!
How many Presidents and how many Congressmen have promised over the last two decades that they were going to control the outlandish medical costs? The cost isn't the insurance. It's allowing the medical providers to charge outrageous fees for services and medicines. My wife has a pretty decent healthplan. I went in for a semi-annual checkup a couple weeks ago, had the typical physical-type exam (including the ever so violating prostate exam), then had the same blood work I've always had during these visits. I got the Explanation Of Services notice from our insurance provider the other day. The office visit was billed at $55, the insurance company allowed $18.25. The lab work was billed for $525, but the insurance company only allowed $123. So I'll pay $141.25 for the visit that someone who doesn't have insurance would have to pay $580. If someone who couldn't afford these huge premiums for health insurance "per-Obamacare", could pay the same $141.25 that I paid for those services, you wouldn't have the high costs and your health costs would be easier to deal with. Look how people are screaming that Obamacare is taking $700 billion (or whatever the number is) from Medicare? No. They are forcing the hospitals and medical providers to reduce their charge rates for the services they bill Medicare (no more $10 charge for an aspirin, or triple-billing one bag of Saline). Of course they're whining that they can't afford to cut their costs. So who is going to bend?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494784
How many Presidents and how many Congressmen have promised over the last two decades that they were going to control the outlandish medical costs? The cost isn't the insurance. It's allowing the medical providers to charge outrageous fees for services and medicines. My wife has a pretty decent healthplan. I went in for a semi-annual checkup a couple weeks ago, had the typical physical-type exam (including the ever so violating prostate exam), then had the same blood work I've always had during these visits. I got the Explanation Of Services notice from our insurance provider the other day. The office visit was billed at $55, the insurance company allowed $18.25. The lab work was billed for $525, but the insurance company only allowed $123. So I'll pay $141.25 for the visit that someone who doesn't have insurance would have to pay $580. If someone who couldn't afford these huge premiums for health insurance "per-Obamacare", could pay the same $141.25 that I paid for those services, you wouldn't have the high costs and your health costs would be easier to deal with. Look how people are screaming that Obamacare is taking $700 billion (or whatever the number is) from Medicare? No. They are forcing the hospitals and medical providers to reduce their charge rates for the services they bill Medicare (no more $10 charge for an aspirin, or triple-billing one bag of Saline). Of course they're whining that they can't afford to cut their costs. So who is going to bend?
As it is right now we are facing shortages in all areas of health care because people are looking to other fields. They aren't doing that because the "outrageous' fees they are collecting. If you follow the big insurance companies profit margins they aren't squat compared to many, many other industries. Mal Practice insurance is a small part of the overall costs but the threat of malpractice suits have a huge effect on overall medical costs. CYA medicine is a big driver of costs. My wife works for a division of an insurance company and sees this first hand. The insurance company isn't a health care provider. They provide malpractice coverage to docs and hospitals. My wife works for the division to handles the legal side of thing and risk and claims management. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff she's seen LOL!
Oh, and like I've said before. Obama care cuts down on payments to docs and hospitals by medicare. Do you know anyone on Medicare? Ask them how hard it is to find a doc who will accept medicare patients. I've had to deal with that in two different states. Trust me it isn't easy and cutting payments further is going to leave a mark.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494787
The Office of the President is the highest position of our government. Our President represents our country good or bad. In my opinion calling the President of the United States "captain Dufus" is very disrespectful.
While I wholeheartedly disagree I can respect your opinion. See I have lost all respect for the man. He blatantly lies then sends his surrogates out to attack anyone who dares point that out. I didn't much like Clinton who was a master of spin but with a couple famous exceptions he didn't blatantly lie. Spin is sadly part of the game so we have to live with that, But I will attempt to refrain from stooping to the level the Democrat party as a whole resorted too during the Bush II, Bush I and Reagan administrations.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494791
While I wholeheartedly disagree I can respect your opinion. See I have lost all respect for the man. He blatantly lies then sends his surrogates out to attack anyone who dares point that out. I didn't much like Clinton who was a master of spin but with a couple famous exceptions he didn't blatantly lie. Spin is sadly part of the game so we have to live with that, But I will attempt to refrain from stooping to the level the Democrat party as a whole resorted too during the Bush II, Bush I and Reagan administrations.
Just my opinion and my wish. There is nothing to compel you except my appreciation.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494771
If the Volt is so great why the huge tax credit? GM had to shut the line down because they aren't selling anything close to their target.
Hybrid BS. Ford Escape. Hybrid 34 city, 31 highway. Gas 22 city 31 highway.. Price Gas 22K Hybrid 31K I did my homework. We were going to get a Hybrid. But most people report they don't get close to the claimed mileage. I know someone local with a Honda hybrid and he gets in the low 30's instead of in the 40's like it's supposed to. People don't realize it but if you run the heat or AC it really pulls down the mileage on those.
Volkswagon Passat Gas 22/32 diesel 31/43 Price gas 21K diesel 26K AND many people report getting better mileage that the advertised rating. I think Hybrids will eventually be the norm for all cars but I'll wait for the technology to catch up with the price. I know someone who is into the hyper mileage thing but he's a moron. He's driving a Scion and thinks shifting at like 1800 RPM's is getting him better gas mileage. I do a lot of the things they do when I drive my truck but that's so I don't have to have a tanker follow me around for refueling. I only get around 9 MPG in town :(
0bama is holding down oil production. There is no legitimate debate about that. The numbers don't lie. We could have higher production.I have nothing against alternative energy as long as it's encouraged and not heavily subsidized. We have another Solynda style deal going down in Oregon now. Big 0bama donor and government loan guarantee for someone jumping into a segment where China is dominating. If they want to give these folks tax breaks great but we shouldn't be dumping money into them.
The tax credit is a electric/battery energy credit. Any vehicle that is electric can get a credit. It's based on the number of Kwh the batteries supply. Due to the size of the batteries in the Volt, it receives the maximum credit of $7500.
It's always adviseable to evaluate the ROI and the timeframe it takes to recoup the extra cost of buying Hybrid/Electric as opposed to buying the exact same car with a gasoline or diesel engine. Mine was about 3 - 5 years. I plan on keeping it much longer, so it pays me in the long run.
Obama isn't holding down oil production. Just another Fox News talking point. You can tweak the numbers all you want. As I said, it's irrelevent anyways. Go ahead and suck it all out of the ground. Then the US Reserves will be gone in another 60 years or so, and you'll become a citizen of Canada because they'll just drive right in and take the US for a new territory.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494789
As it is right now we are facing shortages in all areas of health care because people are looking to other fields. They aren't doing that because the "outrageous' fees they are collecting. If you follow the big insurance companies profit margins they aren't squat compared to many, many other industries. Mal Practice insurance is a small part of the overall costs but the threat of malpractice suits have a huge effect on overall medical costs. CYA medicine is a big driver of costs. My wife works for a division of an insurance company and sees this first hand. The insurance company isn't a health care provider. They provide malpractice coverage to docs and hospitals. My wife works for the division to handles the legal side of thing and risk and claims management. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff she's seen LOL!
Oh, and like I've said before. Obama care cuts down on payments to docs and hospitals by medicare. Do you know anyone on Medicare? Ask them how hard it is to find a doc who will accept medicare patients. I've had to deal with that in two different states. Trust me it isn't easy and cutting payments further is going to leave a mark.
I've heard the "Doctor's aren't taking Medicare patients" rhetoric from all the other NeoCons. I actually asked my doctor about this because I have a friend whose father is looking for a new doc. My doctor said he's welcome to come to him, and he has no plans stopping taking Medicare patients. By the looks of who sits in his waiting room, 70% or more are Medicare patients already. The payment reductions have been a long time coming. Hospitals and doctors have been overcharging and triple-billing Medicare for decades. Why do you think that program is underwater in the first place?
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494791
While I wholeheartedly disagree I can respect your opinion. See I have lost all respect for the man. He blatantly lies then sends his surrogates out to attack anyone who dares point that out. I didn't much like Clinton who was a master of spin but with a couple famous exceptions he didn't blatantly lie. Spin is sadly part of the game so we have to live with that, But I will attempt to refrain from stooping to the level the Democrat party as a whole resorted too during the Bush II, Bush I and Reagan administrations.
Standing here on the sidelines......Reef "THEY" all lie......I don't give two hoots who you put in that office they are all a bunch of crooks and liars bottom line, and that can't even be debated, so to single him out as a liar is rather harsh, when they all do.....He's the puppet!!!!!! You are correct the spin is part of the game.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494812
The tax credit is a electric/battery energy credit. Any vehicle that is electric can get a credit. It's based on the number of Kwh the batteries supply. Due to the size of the batteries in the Volt, it receives the maximum credit of $7500.
It's always adviseable to evaluate the ROI and the timeframe it takes to recoup the extra cost of buying Hybrid/Electric as opposed to buying the exact same car with a gasoline or diesel engine. Mine was about 3 - 5 years. I plan on keeping it much longer, so it pays me in the long run.
Obama isn't holding down oil production. Just another Fox News talking point. You can tweak the numbers all you want. As I said, it's irrelevent anyways. Go ahead and suck it all out of the ground. Then the US Reserves will be gone in another 60 years or so, and you'll become a citizen of Canada because they'll just drive right in and take the US for a new territory.
What's the point of the hybrid.....I bunch of folks getting rich off of us......Just like those crappy CFL bulbs.....How do you suppose will dispose of those batteries when there done.......Hmmmm will create another issue for us down the road.....
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494812
The tax credit is a electric/battery energy credit. Any vehicle that is electric can get a credit. It's based on the number of Kwh the batteries supply. Due to the size of the batteries in the Volt, it receives the maximum credit of $7500.
It's always adviseable to evaluate the ROI and the timeframe it takes to recoup the extra cost of buying Hybrid/Electric as opposed to buying the exact same car with a gasoline or diesel engine. Mine was about 3 - 5 years. I plan on keeping it much longer, so it pays me in the long run.
Obama isn't holding down oil production. Just another Fox News talking point. You can tweak the numbers all you want. As I said, it's irrelevent anyways. Go ahead and suck it all out of the ground. Then the US Reserves will be gone in another 60 years or so, and you'll become a citizen of Canada because they'll just drive right in and take the US for a new territory.
Without the credit how many would they sell? A lot less than now. I figure things on a 7 year time frame. It doesn't make sense to pay the extra money for the Hybrid in our case. Wasn't even close in fact.
If 0bama isn't issuing permits he's holding down production. Numbers aren't tweaked. I posted straight from the government website. You can ignore the facts all you want but it doesn't change them.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494816
Standing here on the sidelines......Reef "THEY" all lie......I don't give two hoots who you put in that office they are all a bunch of crooks and liars bottom line, and that can't even be debated, so to single him out as a liar is rather harsh, when they all do.....He's the puppet!!!!!! You are correct the spin is part of the game.
I make a distinction between lie and spin. Here's an 0bama spin. "We've created 4.6 million new jobs on my watch". While technically true if you consider private sector jobs but it doesn't account for the private sector jobs lost on his watch nor the federal, state and local government jobs lost on his watch.
Here is an 0bama lie "When I first came into office, the head of the Senate Republicans said, ‘my number one priority is making sure president Obama’s a one-term president.” He said it on 60 minutes this weekend. The Statement was made in October 2010. Why is this important? The statement was made after 0bama had set the confrontational tone with Republicans during his first year in office.
It's sad but spin has been a part of politics longer than we have been alive.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393048/obama-the-begger/100#post_3494813
I've heard the "Doctor's aren't taking Medicare patients" rhetoric from all the other NeoCons. I actually asked my doctor about this because I have a friend whose father is looking for a new doc. My doctor said he's welcome to come to him, and he has no plans stopping taking Medicare patients. By the looks of who sits in his waiting room, 70% or more are Medicare patients already. The payment reductions have been a long time coming. Hospitals and doctors have been overcharging and triple-billing Medicare for decades. Why do you think that program is underwater in the first place?
LOL! I didn't realize the New York Times was a Neocon mouth piece.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html

Doctors Are Opting Out of Medicare
By JULIE CONNELLY
Published: April 1, 2009
"Many people, just as they become eligible for Medicare, discover that the insurance rug has been pulled out from under them. Some doctors — often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists — are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors’ reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle."
Thats it LOL! All those docs are dropping out because they are able to triple bill and get overpaid LOL! Do you really believe what you are trying to shovel?
 
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