Ok, I have had enough, LET NUKE 'EM!
- Thread starter 125intx
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tony detroit
Active Member
What our soldiers did to the prisoners was wrong. Plain, Simple.
They are prisoners and as if that is not bad enough, you then need to abuse them like dogs? If you've ever been to jail, you know being locked in a box is bad enough just for an overnight stay, let alone months or even years.
Do you think 100% of the prisoners belong there, no they do not. So chances are you are making a innocent guy pose in
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pictures to make yourself feel better because you got beat up in highschool. That is total BS. There is no reason for the soldiers to be treating prisoners like that. Prison is bad enough in the first place. I heard on the radio that it is believed as many as 80% of the prisoners DO NOT BELONG THERE.
Way to go US government and its employees. One more thing you managed to royally screw up. Go ahead and waste some more of my money.
They are prisoners and as if that is not bad enough, you then need to abuse them like dogs? If you've ever been to jail, you know being locked in a box is bad enough just for an overnight stay, let alone months or even years.
Do you think 100% of the prisoners belong there, no they do not. So chances are you are making a innocent guy pose in
[hr]
pictures to make yourself feel better because you got beat up in highschool. That is total BS. There is no reason for the soldiers to be treating prisoners like that. Prison is bad enough in the first place. I heard on the radio that it is believed as many as 80% of the prisoners DO NOT BELONG THERE.
Way to go US government and its employees. One more thing you managed to royally screw up. Go ahead and waste some more of my money.
rbmount
Active Member
I don't agree with the prisoner abuse, But I think it's time to come home turn off ALL the foreign aid and shut down our borders. We armed Saddam, and what happened? VietNam was a joke. It seems to me when the chips are down everyone comes crying to the U.S., then after we've spent all the money saving them, then they turn on us. I think it's time to take care of #1- US! Do away with NAFTA, stop sending our jobs over seas, stop taking in anyone who crosses the borders, wether legally or illegally, especially the illegals that have more rights to our social services and education at taxpayer expense. And yes, I would have made a parking lot out of Fallujah 5 minutes after those pictures of the dead were shown hanging on that bridge. Sorry for the rant, but i had to put my 2 cents worth in.
D
daniel411
Guest
Nicky, yeah that video is available for download on alot of sites right now. I may be desensitized to alot of violence from the media, but I really don't want to see that. Was bad enough seeing a few still pics of them holding the head up on foreign news sites.
Originally posted by tony detroit
Do you think 100% of the prisoners belong there, no they do not. So chances are you are making a innocent guy pose in
[hr]
pictures to make yourself feel better because you got beat up in highschool. That is total BS. There is no reason for the soldiers to be treating prisoners like that. Prison is bad enough in the first place. I heard on the radio that it is believed as many as 80% of the prisoners DO NOT BELONG THERE.
Supposedly that figures from the Red Cross, and it being upwards of 90%. Regardless, in war or life/death situations, people don't have time to have a full trial over stuff. If you're highly likely to be an enemy, they're locked up and sorted out later. Still, I find those kinds of figures highly suspect. How in the heck could anyone know?
Originally posted by rbmount
I don't agree with the prisoner abuse, But I think it's time to come home turn off ALL the foreign aid and shut down our borders. We armed Saddam, and what happened? VietNam was a joke. It seems to me when the chips are down everyone comes crying to the U.S., then after we've spent all the money saving them, then they turn on us. I think it's time to take care of #1- US! Do away with NAFTA, stop sending our jobs over seas, stop taking in anyone who crosses the borders, wether legally or illegally, especially the illegals that have more rights to our social services and education at taxpayer expense. And yes, I would have made a parking lot out of Fallujah 5 minutes after those pictures of the dead were shown hanging on that bridge. Sorry for the rant, but i had to put my 2 cents worth in.
rbmount, In alot of ways I agree with you. But we created this mess, shouldn't we fix it? Even if it is likely very costly to fix? I'm asking myself that. Sadly, our governments since atleast 1913 IMO, (Brownie points to anyone who knows what signifiacantly happened that year!) our governments been on the process of selling us out and handing over our soverignty. I'll end it at that, before I get flamed or change the direction of this thread.
Originally posted by tony detroit
Do you think 100% of the prisoners belong there, no they do not. So chances are you are making a innocent guy pose in
[hr]
pictures to make yourself feel better because you got beat up in highschool. That is total BS. There is no reason for the soldiers to be treating prisoners like that. Prison is bad enough in the first place. I heard on the radio that it is believed as many as 80% of the prisoners DO NOT BELONG THERE.
Supposedly that figures from the Red Cross, and it being upwards of 90%. Regardless, in war or life/death situations, people don't have time to have a full trial over stuff. If you're highly likely to be an enemy, they're locked up and sorted out later. Still, I find those kinds of figures highly suspect. How in the heck could anyone know?
Originally posted by rbmount
I don't agree with the prisoner abuse, But I think it's time to come home turn off ALL the foreign aid and shut down our borders. We armed Saddam, and what happened? VietNam was a joke. It seems to me when the chips are down everyone comes crying to the U.S., then after we've spent all the money saving them, then they turn on us. I think it's time to take care of #1- US! Do away with NAFTA, stop sending our jobs over seas, stop taking in anyone who crosses the borders, wether legally or illegally, especially the illegals that have more rights to our social services and education at taxpayer expense. And yes, I would have made a parking lot out of Fallujah 5 minutes after those pictures of the dead were shown hanging on that bridge. Sorry for the rant, but i had to put my 2 cents worth in.
rbmount, In alot of ways I agree with you. But we created this mess, shouldn't we fix it? Even if it is likely very costly to fix? I'm asking myself that. Sadly, our governments since atleast 1913 IMO, (Brownie points to anyone who knows what signifiacantly happened that year!) our governments been on the process of selling us out and handing over our soverignty. I'll end it at that, before I get flamed or change the direction of this thread.
moraymike
Member
Just 2 days ago quite a bit of America was furious about Rumsfeld and the Iraqi abuse. Is it coincidense that the controlled Media would release something like this right after pictures of tortured Iraqi's were leaked? Now maybe we will support the administration's goals again? I agree, it's sick; it's also sick that our Military are making Iraqi's do Homosexual Acts. It's not okay for Sadam to torture his people, but they are saying it is okay if our Country does it (they arn't punishing Rumsfeld, are they?). Beyond all the lies, somewhere is the truth. It's so sad to see all this happening. Daniel, it looks like you have your eyes open and see what's coming
I think the American media should take some responsibility here. They did not need to actually show the entire world those pics. They could have simply described them in some detail, but they didn't need to show them. They have fueled the fire for all those extremists out there. Now they can sit back and criticize Bush, Congress, etc. for all of this. Nice going.
Sure prisoner abuse is wrong, but let's not put more American lives in jeopardy for some news story. Who are the real bad guys here???
Now, let's support our troops and finish what we've started. I'd rather fight terror over than here at home.
I think the American media should take some responsibility here. They did not need to actually show the entire world those pics. They could have simply described them in some detail, but they didn't need to show them. They have fueled the fire for all those extremists out there. Now they can sit back and criticize Bush, Congress, etc. for all of this. Nice going.
Sure prisoner abuse is wrong, but let's not put more American lives in jeopardy for some news story. Who are the real bad guys here???
Now, let's support our troops and finish what we've started. I'd rather fight terror over than here at home.
T
tizzo
Guest
You know, I find it kinda "ironic" that a single man had COMPLETE CONTROL over that country for how-ever long... But our ENTIRE military can't get things under control. I TOTALLY support this war, and if people had seen videos of what Saddam was doing to his people (and we didn't go over there) all we would hear about is how big our military is, and how our troops could fix this for so many people... Well, I'm glad we went, and all this is to be expected from them. We knew going in that they didn't play by the rules. But, none-the-less I was saddened by what the Americans did. Although, I DON'T believe that that should rest on the president's shoulders. When I was in the military, I never even met G. W. Bush, so how in the world is HE supposed to be accountable for MY actions!?!?!?
harlequin
Member
Daniel not every American civilian over there is a merc. A good buddy of mine who is a paramedic, is there as a civilian contractor, plus you have engineers, teachers, mechanics, air conditioner repairmen, cooks, ect ect. Only a small percentage are actually what can be termed mercs and sercurity people. Whether this guy was a merc or a civilian I dont know.
--This isnt actually the first time this has happened. Back when the Russians were at war with the Chechnyens(sp) the rebels did the same thing to a russian soldier and sent the tape to Moscow. I saw it online and to this day it is still one of the most horrifying things I have seen, but I am sure that it is probably a common thing in these barbarian countries. I am a Bush supporter and I supported the war to oust Saddam, but we do not need to stay long term in these POS countries. We need to go in, do the job and then let them fight it out with each other on the type of gov't they end up with while molding that new gov't using the CIA. Thats what we have that agency for.
--This isnt actually the first time this has happened. Back when the Russians were at war with the Chechnyens(sp) the rebels did the same thing to a russian soldier and sent the tape to Moscow. I saw it online and to this day it is still one of the most horrifying things I have seen, but I am sure that it is probably a common thing in these barbarian countries. I am a Bush supporter and I supported the war to oust Saddam, but we do not need to stay long term in these POS countries. We need to go in, do the job and then let them fight it out with each other on the type of gov't they end up with while molding that new gov't using the CIA. Thats what we have that agency for.
polarpooch
Active Member
I think the American media should take some responsibility here. They did not need to actually show the entire world those pics. They could have simply described them in some detail, but they didn't need to show them. They have fueled the fire for all those extremists out there. Now they can sit back and criticize Bush, Congress, etc. for all of this. Nice going.
I agree. It used to be in the press CONTEXT was key to presenting a story. No longer. Now the media hides behind the 1st Amendment, or wields it as a weapon--rarely accepting that with such a powerful law behind them, they bear responsibility to exercise caution in the extremes and on the fringes. All I have heard for days is "FREEDOM OF THE PRESS"! But freedom does not operate in a vacuum. It sometimes requires selfless responsibility, and basic consideration of the consequences of that freedom. The media has broken the covenant, and no one wants to shout it from the rooftops. If you dare, you'll be labled facist, draconian...or lately (gasp!) a Republican.
I have seen the video of Nick Berg (our news dept. found a copy...not that it was that difficult, it's all over the web), and it is horrifying--it literally shakes you to the core. Takes a strong stomach to make it through the 90 seconds. Shocking as it is though, for those folks who have lost site of what we're fighting, watch the video. After watching it, if you don't get it, you never will.
Deaf ears about though--and that's why we're in trouble.
I agree. It used to be in the press CONTEXT was key to presenting a story. No longer. Now the media hides behind the 1st Amendment, or wields it as a weapon--rarely accepting that with such a powerful law behind them, they bear responsibility to exercise caution in the extremes and on the fringes. All I have heard for days is "FREEDOM OF THE PRESS"! But freedom does not operate in a vacuum. It sometimes requires selfless responsibility, and basic consideration of the consequences of that freedom. The media has broken the covenant, and no one wants to shout it from the rooftops. If you dare, you'll be labled facist, draconian...or lately (gasp!) a Republican.
I have seen the video of Nick Berg (our news dept. found a copy...not that it was that difficult, it's all over the web), and it is horrifying--it literally shakes you to the core. Takes a strong stomach to make it through the 90 seconds. Shocking as it is though, for those folks who have lost site of what we're fighting, watch the video. After watching it, if you don't get it, you never will.
Deaf ears about though--and that's why we're in trouble.
S
spsaddict
Guest
i agree poochie i agree... i have nothing more to add except, these
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need to be taught a lesson... one they shall never forget... you dont F@CK with the us
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need to be taught a lesson... one they shall never forget... you dont F@CK with the us
D
daniel411
Guest
Originally posted by Knoxville
where can I see this video?? Im canadian, but im glad US is our big brother!!!
Email me and I'll send you a link to the video. Neversummer411NOSPAM@yahoo.com
Originally posted by Harlequin
Daniel not every American civilian over there is a merc. A good buddy of mine who is a paramedic, is there as a civilian contractor, plus you have engineers, teachers, mechanics, air conditioner repairmen, cooks, ect ect. Only a small percentage are actually what can be termed mercs and sercurity people.
--This isnt actually the first time this has happened. Back when the Russians were at war with the Chechnyens(sp) the rebels did the same thing to a russian soldier and sent the tape to Moscow. I saw it online and to this day it is still one of the most horrifying things I have seen, but I am sure that it is probably a common thing in these barbarian countries. I am a Bush supporter and I supported the war to oust Saddam, but we do not need to stay long term in these POS countries. We need to go in, do the job and then let them fight it out with each other on the type of gov't they end up with while molding that new gov't using the CIA. Thats what we have that agency for.
According to several sources 10% of all funds being spent by/for contractors in Iraq is for actual mercenaries. While there is a huge difference between working as a mercenary fighter, and a contract worker performing a civilian job. They're still, atleast many electricians, I&C, etc. being paid absurd amounts of money to go. So as much is I do still feel sorrow, they knew the risks and were paid handsomely for taking them. I'm sure though that there are contract workers there who aren't making 2-300K a year. Which is just a shame.
The Russians are still at war with Chechen rebels. Heck, look around in the news to see who was just assasinated! As far as leaving it to them and the CIA to sort it all out and create a government. Thats a primary reason so many people in the world hate us.
Originally posted by MorayMike
I think the American media should take some responsibility here. They did not need to actually show the entire world those pics. They could have simply described them in some detail, but they didn't need to show them. They have fueled the fire for all those extremists out there. Now they can sit back and criticize Bush, Congress, etc. for all of this. Nice going.
Sure prisoner abuse is wrong, but let's not put more American lives in jeopardy for some news story. Who are the real bad guys here???
Now, let's support our troops and finish what we've started. I'd rather fight terror over than here at home.
I completely agree with you Mike on the media needing to take MORE responsibility for how they're presenting this stuff. I deffinately hope that they don't show the really horrible video's that they have. However, would people really believe that happened if they didn't? As well, when there are hundreds of pictures circulating about by the individuals who took them... how can you stop them from getting out? As well as how can we, should we try and control the news media in other countries? Oh, Yahoo is refusing to show the worst pictures in it news section, thats a start. If the Red Cross reports are valid, of them bringing this to the attention of Bremer, Rice, Powell, Rumsfield, and 13 or 17 (I forget) members of congress; multiple times. Than they can sit back and criticize the government, for now though, who knows whats really the truth over there. This is a perfect example of a pathetic attempt of showing something which will cause suffering for the troops, the US, and serve no purpose other than grabbing some ratings and the accompanying advertisement revenue. While useing freedom of the press as a shield.
http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/402079|top|05-11-2004::20:25|reuters.html
Who are the real bad guys... good question. Anyone who puts a glowstick where the sun doesn't shine, is deffinately a bad guy. However, the majority of our troops are awesome and doing a great job! We just need to let them, perform it, and take the political white gloves off.
Wow, if this is really a comment by the FBI. Than we're never going to know the truth, this is a disturbingly different account of events than the dudes parents!
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._pe/fbi_berg_1
tony detroit
Active Member
Blame the people responsible, not the media.
harlequin
Member
The media is a huge source of today's problems. They should be brought up on treason charges for the current issues. The soldier who ratted them out should have used the chain of command and brought his complaints forward or gotten in touch with CID(Criminal Investigation Department) or IG(Investgator General) and let them handle it which they would have. By playing hero he has badly messed things up for the worse in Iraq. I do think those soldiers were out of line in what they were doing but war is dirty. At least we were not breaking bones and electroshock interregating them, which would you prefer? As we just saw with the execution, thats how the barbarian peoples of the world do it. The media is extremely accountable for adding to the problems too just for the sake of ratings. Good news is not good ratings so they do not cover the good things we have accomplished, the Iraqi people who support our efforts which are a large majority over there ect ect. An incident which occurred when another buddy and his tanker unit was there happened at a pizza stand right outside their camp. They frequented the place everyday and the guy had a large family working there as well and had a great relationship with the army guys. Some radicals showed up and started harrassing the army guys one day and he walked out with an AK and told them to leave at gunpoint. True he had good motivation to do so but many Iraqis feel the same knowing that when these insurgents are taken care of and the oil starts flowing again they will have a much better life. Back to my point, the media should not be allowed to print material that is detrimental to the war effort such as things like the pictures which encourages the enemy to further acts of violence and kills more of our troops. Freedom of speech besides, this is a wartime situation and freedom of speech DOES NOT apply when it gets our guys hurt. Their actions are treasonous and they should be brought up on charges. Who knows how many more neutral people are going to see those photos now and pick up arms against us. Terror and torture are the art of the badguys to get what they want, a little humiliation to get information doesnt hurt anything except maybe their pride. However all this said, taking those pictures in the first place was f'ing stupid and if it was done for pure entertainment purposes then by all means nail those people to the wall, but this was something that should have been handled internally and the public should never have gotten wind of it.
broncofish
Active Member
Originally posted by Harlequin
The media is a huge source of today's problems. They should be brought up on treason charges for the current issues. The soldier who ratted them out should have used the chain of command and brought his complaints forward or gotten in touch with CID(Criminal Investigation Department) or IG(Investgator General) and let them handle it which they would have.
It's my understanding that the chain of command there was screwed...as in nobody knew who to report to...the soldiers accused were trained as traffic cops, not prison gaurds...also that kid that "ratted" made an anonomous(sp?) phone call to an office similar to the IG, not the media...and then went on record when the investigator showed up.......which goes to point number two. Do we really want our media holding back pictures of our troops braking the geneva convention as to protect the image of the government, a war it has waged, and the soldiers fighting it? I don't think they should, it is those soldiers fault, or the CIA guys above them directing it. If the White House, or the pentagon really wanted this scandle stopped they could have, by cracking down on complaints when they first got wind of it....instead of pretending to be horrified when the press finaly found out.
D
daniel411
Guest
Originally posted by benrock
quote : by Daniel411
1913 IMO, (Brownie points to anyone who knows what signifiacantly happened that year!)
My guess is the Federal Reserve Act
-Way to go!
As for the media... we all know and apparently agree that every news outlet has its bias as well as plays politics with the news. A great example is over how they handled, whats the media hungry minister and civil rights guy's name-pardon me its 3am, anyways.... his affair and child were known about for years by the media. They wouldn't report it until he started a serious attempt to run for election. Than they dropped all of the news. While it is shady, how they played politics with that-even admitted it, SO WHAT!!! If you don't want to be harmed by something you did.... DON'T DO THAT!
Supposedly, the news stations used to be subsidized by the networks as community goodwill. Its no longer that way, in fact look at the advertising revenue generated by the 5 O'clock news... its often a huge portion of a stations profit now. If thats the case, can they really be ran without concern for the ratings?
Can the government tell the news to not air this stuff? Sure, they could find away... Patriot act addendums are great for stripping away liberties. But so what It would just make us look even more absurd to the world, as we can't stop the foreign news stations from airing it. So our guys will still get hurt. Does anyone honestly think that "60 Minutes" is the first show to air this stuff like they've sort of proclaimed, and are where the people who killed Berg found out about all of this?
Personally I'd rather have someone break my bones rather than being sodomized... not sure about you. Oh and for not killing or torturing to death unarmed prisoners... http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/402079|top|05-11-2004::20:25|reuters.html
Broncofish pretty much summed alot of it up. The people in charge had warnings, knew in advance, and could have demonstrated leadership... a missed opprotunity. I'm really curious though why the story Berg's parents gave and what the FBI is saying is so different? Apparently the interrogation techniques the CIA implemented even distrubed the FBI....
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/13/po...rint&position=
Its just a shame, these blunders are pushing the people over there who are happy with what we did to the other side. I'm done, sorry if bothered anyone.
jlem
Active Member
Originally posted by rbmount
VietNam was a joke.
I was listening to talk radio and a guest who I forgot his name was saying how the Vietnam war saved more lives than anyone can imagine because it was like a relief valve for the cold war. The point was that it blew off alot of tension that the US and USSR had been building up between them and actually preventd what very well could have been a 3rd world war and nuclear holocaust. It was a very interesting way of looking at the Vietnam war.
tony detroit
Active Member
Originally posted by Harlequin
The media is a huge source of today's problems. They should be brought up on treason charges for the current issues.
So are you proposing the media should have hid this from the public?
Only corrupt governments have things to hide.
My opinion, EXPOSE THE TRUTH. Whatever it may be. Whatever cost it reaps. Why? Because people will learn a very valuable lesson when they see what happens.